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Key Suspect in Brussels Attacks Confesses; Bernie Sanders Wins Wyoming; Pope Francis Wants More Acceptance for Folks Outside of Marriage. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired April 09, 2016 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:00:27] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN "NEWSROOM." I'm Pamela Brown, filling in for Poppy Harlow on this Saturday.

We start with the breaking news about confession that is sending shock waves across Europe. Take a look, this man, right here, the last known Paris terror suspect on the run since November, has just admitted he is also Belgian's infamous man in the hat. 31-year-old ISIS-linked Mohamed Abrini now captured alive in Belgium and talking.

In this video you can see Abrini, right here, wearing a hat in the light colored jacket, unassumingly walking through Brussels International Airport. Then moments later two explosions rock the departure hall, killing and maiming dozens. His alleged crime even more shocking when you consider he was Europe's most wanted man at the time.

These pictures showing Abrini at a gas situation with the now captured SAlah Abdel Salaam, days before the deadly Paris attacks. An act of terror, Abrini is accused of helping orchestrate.

Let's get to Fred Pleitgen in Brussels. So Fred, what is he telling authorities about what he did in the aftermath of the attacks?

FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly that's something that the authorities felt it was very important to point out to us, Pamela. They said that not only did he confess to obviously being that man in the hat, the third person at the scene, he said that afterwards he then made his way from the airport, walking all the way to almost the city center of Brussels.

He also then confessed that the police, are quite frankly, had already made public a couple of days ago, and said that along the way he dumped his jacket and then surprisingly apparently also sold a hat that he was wearing to conceal his identity which of course some people would find strange considering that he was on the run after a major terrorist attack.

Now, the police here, of course, are saying this is some major information that they are getting but they also say they are well aware of the fact tht this could possibly not be the end of all of this, they do fear that there could still be people out there who may be linked to all this, who may have helped these people logistically but also to hide here in Brussels over months.

BROWN: That, of course, is the big concern, Fred. Stay with me because I want to bring in Bob Baer. He is the former CIA operative and CNN intelligence security analyst. In light of what Fred just said, Bob, how much do these arrests contain the threat there when officials believe there are more people connected to the network, still out there in Europe, and, right after Salah Abdusalam was arrested, there was an attack a few days later. The same could happen in this case, right?

ROBERT BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE SECURITY ANALYST: Exactly, Pamela. Remember, these people were traveling around Europe, one of them traveled to Britain, to Birmingham, another one recently arrested the last couple days is Swedish. They traveled through Germany, some of them had stolen Syrian passports which they filled in different names. So we're looking at a much bigger network that is not easy to get at to.

I mean, I'd love to be in the room with Abrini and see what he is saying and compare it to the forensics and the metadata. You know, we just don't know whether he's telling the truth. I think he was the guy in the airport. I don't think the Belgians would go public with this unless they are quite certain. But you know, these witnesses are inherently not reliable.

BROWN: You know, it's interesting because earlier in the week I was hearing from intelligence sources that they believed they knew the identity of the man in the hat, it turns out it was Abrini. So Bob, in a case like that, they would probably have more than facial recognition, right, whether it's sources or DNA analysis, what else would go into making assumption like that?

BAER: I think they've got much more. I think they probably do have a DNA match. They are about ready to get it. They probably looked at the existing metadata which corresponds, you know, the airport trip and the rest of it. The taxi driver is being debriefed. They probably do have some sources, you know, witnesses to this that are talking that they would prefer not to disclose because they are in danger.

And so they are taking this step by step. I'm starting to be impressed by the Belgians, they are finally getting it together and you know, again, it as we talked about they are knocking down doors and getting physical evidence, exactly what you want to do.

BROWN: So Fred, he was, Abrini, was on the run ever since he was seen in that surveillance video with Salah Abdusalam, before the Paris attacks. And then he was able to go on and be a part of the second attack. Do we know what led authorities to him to make that arrest yesterday?

PLEITGEN: Well, it's unclear what exactly led that to them but it was certainly a raid that took place inside an apartment, right near the place where he was finally apprehended. It's interesting because I actually spent the better part of yesterday evening at that location.

[16:05:00]

And apparently what happened is they raided an apartment which they believe might have been an apartment he was using for a considerable amount of time. That is something that the authorities then later said.

So exactly as Bob was saying, they are finally now knocking down doors, going into places and searching for these people. It appeared to us as though he might have tried to escape that apartment because it seems as though the place where he was then finally captured by the police was about maybe 200 yards away from the apartment, where afterwards a lot of the forensic work was being conducted and it was interesting because the forensic work at that apartment that they now believe was Abrini's apartment went on for a considerable amount of time.

We saw forensic workers just get bags and bags of evidence out of there until they were finally finished some time in the middle of the night.

BROWN: So quickly in light of this concern of future attacks, do we know to what degree he's cooperating with authorities beyond just admitting that he was the man in the hat? Do we know if he is revealing who others in the network are or anything like that?

PLEITGEN: Well, it is still very early stages so at this point in time, it isn't really clear. But it's interesting that the authorities came out today and said look, we didn't just have the circumstantial evidence to prove that it was essentially him being the man in the hat but that he was saying things as well. Now, the big question is, is he saying anything else, will all of that continue.

If you remember back to Salah Abdesalam at the beginning when he was captured, his lawyer was also telling the public "Yes, he is going to work together with the authorities," then at some point he said "he's not going to work with authorities anymore," That's when the Brussels attack happened.

So it's unclear what else he would say. This is clearly is someone who is, very, very dangerous and someone was - but now it seems very clear involved in two of the biggest terror attacks that have happened here in Europe in the past 10 years. So very much unclear what this man is willing to give to the authorities.

BROWN: And Bob, you mentioned earlier that you're happy the Belgians are sort of finally getting it together. But they had a huge problem on their hands. I mean, per capita, more young Belgian men are going to join ISIS in Iraq and Syria, than any other European country. Why Belgian and what can be done?

BAER: Well, the problem is the Moroccans, descendants of Mororccans, they are Belgians, of course, it's essentially apartheid. They go to bad schools, high unemployment, if you have the name Mohammed you're unlikely to be interviewed for a job. They have no outlet in that society to speak of. So they look to these outside conflicts, keep in mind and Fred, will tell you these communities are generally hostile to outsiders including to the press.

I've been to these places, they just don't want to talk. So the Belgian police are faced with the same difficulty of monitoring these communities, virtually impossible because they are separate. And they have a long, you know, a lot to do to integrate these people.

BROWN: Sure do. It's also a resource issue too in Belgium from what I understand. Bob Baer, Fred Pleitgen, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up, by the way, on this Saturday, can Bernie Sanders extend his winning streak against rival, Hillary Clinton? The results are rolling in. As soon as CNN is ready to make a projection, I'll have it for you. Stick around.

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[16:11:21]

BROWN: Welcome back. You are looking at live pictures right out of Colorado Springs, where the Republican state convention is taking place. Ted Cruz looking to sweep up all of the state's delegates, he spoke there just a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A year ago as Republicans, we started with 17 candidates, an amazingly talented, diverse, young, dynamic field. What a contrast with the Democrats. You know, the democratic field consists of a wild-eyed socialist with ideas that are dangerous for America and the world, and Bernie Sanders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So not just focusing on his rival, Donald Trump, also Bernie Sanders as you heard there.

In the meantime, our Randi Kaye has an inside look on what makes the Colorado delegate process so unique.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What you are looking at inside this Colorado Springs hotel is the campaign inside the campaign. Where wannabe national delegates are making a push to get to the Republican National Convention. And campaigns are trying to win their support. All behind closed doors.

Jon Caldera, who has yet to say which candidate he'll support, is one of them.

(on camera): Why haven't you pledged yourself to a candidate?

JON CALDERA, UNPLEDGED DELEGATE: Because I think this year is so fluid and so chaotic I'm not sure what's going to happen in Cleveland.

KAYE (voice-over): Colorado chose not to hold a caucus or a primary this year due to cost.

(on camera): Instead it's holding these smaller conventions where delegate candidates are elected to attend the national convention in Cleveland. From what we've seen here, this is a messy process.

CALDERA: It's a fun, wild, chaotic and wildly disorganized process.

KAYE (voice-over): Here's how it works. Delegate candidates like Jon each give a 30-second sales pitch.

CALDERA: I'm running as an unbound delegate because it will be a wild ride there.

KAYE: Then state party members cast their ballots on their delegate choice. In the end 37 Colorado delegates will be sent to Cleveland. With a contested convention a real possibility, an unpledged delegate is a hot commodity. If a presidential candidate can get enough unpledged delegates to pledge allegiance to his side, it could literally give him the nomination so the campaigns are in hot pursuit.

(on camera): Have you been courted already by the campaigns?

MARY DAMBMIAN, UNPLEDGED DELEGATE: A million times. I was so tired of robo calls today I could have croaked.

KAYE (voice-over): Mary Dambmian was one of 58 potential national delegates at another gathering Thursday night in Arvada, Colorado.

KAARL HOOPES, UNPLEDGED DELEGATEMALE: Kaarl Hoopes, running for national delegate.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: OK, Carl.

KAYE: Potential unpledged national delegate Carl Hoops was there too. Expecting to be wooed heavily by Donald Trump's team if elected noting the campaign's deep pockets.

(on camera): What do you think they will throw your way?

HOOPES: I don't really know.

KAYE: A duffel bag of cash, a ride on the Trump plane? What is it?

HOOPES: It doesn't matter what it is, my vote will not be bought. That's for sure.

KAYE (voice-over): Back in Colorado Springs, at the hotel, former New Hampshire Senator John Sununu was courting unpledged delegates on behalf of Governor John Kasich.

FMR. GOV. JOHN SUNUNU, COLORADO: No one is going to have their mind changed with a fancy dinner. This is about more than that.

KAYE (on camera): So is the wooing and the courting OK with you or do you feel pressured?

CALDERA: I'm a lonely man, I like to be wooed every now and then.

KAYE (voice-over): Randi Kaye, CNN, Colorado Springs, Colorado.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Thank you to, Randi Kaye, for laying out the process for us there.

[16:15:00]

On the democratic side of the race, the showdown between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders is focused on one state, Wyoming.

The all important Wyoming democratic caucus is wrapping up, results are coming in as you see right here, 14 pledged delegates are at stake. Democrat Bernie Sanders is looking to extend his big winning streak, if Sanders emerges victorious in Wyoming he will have won eight out of the nine last state contests.

Clinton is trying to put a stop to Sanders' growing momentum before their brutal showdown in the New York primary. I'm going to bring in Paul Vercammen, in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Paul, you've been there for a while. Tell us about the results that are trickling in right now.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they have just come in a big batch. One of the counties that we were waiting for that sort of promised to be in favor of Bernie Sanders, why, because the University of Wyoming is there, as you know Sanders has done very well among college students, especially with his vow to try to get rid of the high tuition that are plaguing so many young Americans and this just in literally handed to me a second ago on a piece of paper.

In Albany county, Laramie, the city in that country, where the University of Wyoming is, sanders, 931, Hillary Clinton, 316. So a whopping victory for Sanders in that county. And if he were to keep this up, the delegate split in the state of Wyoming would be somewhere around nine for Sanders and five for Clinton. And if he really beat her badly in some other counties it might be something like 10 to 4. We'll just have to see.

Something to bear in mind, the needle is moved easily in Wyoming, so to speak. This is a sparsely populated state. To put it in context, the total amount of people who will vote today's caucus will be exceeded by the entire population of let's say (INAUDIBLE) New Jersey, just across from New York or in (INAUDIBLE) California there are a few more thousand people in both of those cities that will vote in the entire Wyoming caucus.

As we said right now to recap, Sanders right now took a big lead with this big victory in Albany county. Pam.

BROWN: And many people believe that he will win. Of course we'll give you the official projection once we have it. I want to ask you, speaking to caucusgoers there in Cheyenne, what have they been telling you?

VERCAMMEN: They were so enthusiastic. As you can see it's empty behind me. They got in here, they voted with their hearts, they were passionate, they were efficient, they dropped their ballot in boxes and let's listen to supporters for both Clinton and Sanders. Hillary Clinton won, by the way, in this county.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFED MALE: She has the experience, she has a little pragmatism. I mean, you know, she's been kicked around quite a bit. And she's still come out, you know. With basically a presidential quality I guess if you will.

UNIDENTIFED MALE: This is thrilling. I'm seeing a lot of new people. I've been involved in the party for many, many years. And to see this kind of energy on both sides is a wonderful thing. I just hope we feel the burn a little more than the Hillary folks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: And in this room earlier there was a bent towards Sanders, more people are whooping it up for him and more people cast votes for him, in person. But Hillary Clinton did so well with the surrogate vote in Laramie county, in the end, she overtook Bernie Sanders. That might be important because it allowed her to chip away at that total amount of 14 Wyoming delegates. Pam.

BROWN: All right. Paul Vercammen, thank you very much for that.

And here is another look at the results of the Wyoming democratic caucuses still rolling in. As I said earlier, as soon as CNN is ready to make a projection, I'll have it for you. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:22:24]

BROWN: We are waiting to hear from Bernie Sanders at a rally in Long Island City, New York. As we wait to hear from Sanders, you are looking right now at the very latest results of the Wyoming democratic caucuses, the Vermont senator is holding on to his lead as you can see right here.

As soon as CNN is ready to make a projection in Wyoming, I'll have it for you.

Joining me now is democratic strategist and Bernie Sanders' supporter (INAUDIBLE) and CNN political commentator and Hillary Clinton supporter Maria Cardona. Thank you both for coming on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for having us, Pamela.

BROWN: So Maria, we just saw the latest as far as the results coming in from Wyoming. A win in Wyoming would give Bernie Sanders eight of the last nine contests, heading into the showdown in New York. How does Clinton put a stop to Bernie's momentum?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, think what she's going to do is focus on winning New York. Look, absolutely Bernie Sanders, he will most likely win today, I'll congratulate him right now. A win is a win. So kudos to him.

It will be - he'll be adding to his winning streak. But in the democratic primary a winning streak is not what wins. It's delegates. So, the math's the thing as Hamlet might say that is actually going to get you to the nomination. Right now Hillary Clinton has the math in her favor.

Look, even if Bernie Sanders won all of Wyoming's delegates today, 14 delegates at stake, her delegate lead would still be above 200. It's going to be very difficult with the states that come after Wyoming, and Wyoming was tailor-made for Bernie Sanders, it's a majority white state, it's very densely - it's not densely populated. The least populated state in the United States. It's a caucus. It's in the west. You know, the focus on progressivism has been pretty keen among democrats, so again, tailor-made for Bernie Sanders. This was not a surprise.

But moving forward, the demographics get very difficult for him and the states that come after Wyoming, incredibly delegate rich states that will help Hillary add to her math which continues to be in her favor.

BROWN: So Naomi, it's true that even if he wins Wyoming he still has a long way to go to catch up to Hillary Clinton in terms of delegate count. How confident is the Sanders' camp that he'll be able to do that?

NOMIKI KOST, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: There is this old political organizing phrase called the river. It is when the momentum is so large that you cannot stop it. You can see that's what's happening right now with Bernie Sanders' campaign. When he has won eight of the nine last primaries and caucuses in not just white but liberal northeastern states, that's a problem for Hillary Clinton. That's when you'll see those delegates start to turn.

[16:25:10]

There's rules in the DNC that the delegates have to pledged delegates have to reflect the voters' needs and wants. But guess what? Who just decided to create those rules, Hillary Clinton after 2008. She lobbied the DNC.

You know, the issue here that Hillary Clinton campaign is presenting, the only messaging that's coming out of their campaign and there are hundreds of surrogates is the math. They are not talking about issues, they are not talking about what New Yorkers care about because what we see on the Bernie Sanders' campaign is everywhere from Buffalo, New York to the Bronx, issues of economic inequality, raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour, universal health care, fracking, all of these issues, not being so eager to go to war. You know these are the issues that New Yorkers care about. We saw this two years ago when (INAUDIBLE), a progressive that no one knew of ran a very strong campaign against Andrew Cuomo. One of the strongest names in New York history and she had no organization, she didn't have what Bernie Sanders has. So I think that Hillary Clinton might be shocked by the numbers that come in after the New York primary when she sees an organized movement that she can't stop.

BROWN: We'll have to wait and see what happens at the New York primary right around the corner.

Maria, it was not too long ago that it seemed that Hillary Clinton was ready to turn her attention to Donald Trump, I remember what that commercial or that ad that seemed she was targeting Donald Trump. Why does it seem like this campaign is starting to take on a nastier tone?

CARDONA: Well, I think it's starting to take on a nastier tone because Bernie Sanders has gone back on his pledge to run a positive campaign. Which is something that he promised to do back in April of last year, and clearly as his campaign has realized that they cannot get there with the math, they are kind of you know, they are kind of in desperation mode. I also think - hang on. Hang on.

BROWN: No negative ads.

CARDONA: And Nomiki is right in terms of New York being focused on the issues. That is exactly what Hillary Clinton has been talking about to New Yorkers. And as the two-term senator she has a lot of support in New York and frankly, one of the reasons I think that Bernie turned negative is because he was reeling from the disastrous, horrendous "New York Daily" news article editorial board that came out that essentially -- that essentially uncovered the lack of depth and knowledge, not just core issues -

KOST: You have to give me a second here, Maria.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Also foreign policy.

You said that was factually inaccurate.

KOST: It was fact checked by "The New York Times." What happened was everybody took two pieces of this interview by the "New York Daily News," before the editorial board and took it out of context. Nobody read the transcript. It took 45 minutes.

CARDONA: I read the transcript.

KOST: Well, then you would understand how the banking process works. The banking process is that it goes to legislate before Congress. Unfortunately, everyone took it out of context when he said it needs to be passed before Congress. It's as simple as that.

But aside from the matter here what we're seeing over the past week is every time something happens to Hillary Clinton, whether she has an outburst against an organizer, a Green Peace organizer or Bill Clinton belittles African-Americans, what happens is they immediately go on the attack against Bernie Sanders.

He has not run a negative ad. She had super pacs run negative ads for the past nine months. He only had a dozen surrogates that are unpaid. Maria you're the head of a super pac. There are hundreds of.

CARDONA: I'm not head of a super pac.

BROWN: OK. All right.

CARDONA: I'm not the head of a super pac.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Hold on. I - I have to - we have to move on. But listen. One thing we know is that the rhetoric is ratcheting up.

CARDONA: Exactly.

BROWN: As we head into the New York primary. Maria Cardona, Nomiki Kost, thank you very much.

CARDONA: Hillary will continue to focus on the issues.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Reminder, by the way, speaking of Hillary and Bernie, they are going to face off in a CNN democratic presidential debate in Brooklyn. That is April 14, 9:00 p.m. Eastern, five days before the New York primary.

We'll be right back. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:32:21] PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORREPONDENT: And we are back with our breaking news.

A confession in Belgium, federal prosecutors says Mohamed Abrini, the last known fugitive in the Paris attacks seen right here has just admitted to being the man in the hat. Seen in the Brussels Airport with the two bombers, just moments before explosions shook the terminal. They say he confessed after being confronted with facial recognition evidence.

Joining me now, Kim Dozier, CNN Global Affairs Analyst. So, Kim, this is all pretty remarkable. You have this individual who pulled off an attack in Paris and then was able to turn around and pull off one in Brussels while being the most wanted man in Europe. Certainly doesn't look good for European security forces, does it?

KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, it doesn't in that you have evidence of this tight knit network, some of these suspects they grew up together. And so you can see that they brought in only a few people that they knew well. That shows you how hard this would be for Belgian, European authorities to penetrate.

But on the good news side of things, the Belgian authorities have pieced together enough evidence so that they're able to do something like they've done with Abrini, go into the room with him, and they have some things they know to be true, and then they use those as test questions. And when they catch him in a lie, they present him with the evidence, and that gives them a sort of a psychological one up on him. And then he confesses.

That's now what they're going to do with everyone they've in custody going to each one of them separately, building this picture and then withholding some evidence and seeing how much they will fill in and if they'll do it correctly and give them more of this puzzle.

BROWN: Speaking that confessing though, I mean, how much of an incentive does he really have here to confess considering the fact he -- they know he was part of the Paris attacks based on evidence and surveillance videos. Why would he be talking to authorities?

DOZIER: Well, he knows he's not going to get away. But, if he is a hardened ISIS operative and follower, the publicity that he can get by confessing, by owning up to being part of this plot, is as valuable almost to ISIS in terms of recruiting as the original horrific acts themselves.

So by saying, "Yes, I was the guy," and then getting more details of the plot out there, that helps instill fear across Europe. But look, this was somebody who is living next door to Europeans, part of the society, and yet turned on them.

BROWN: Well, and you know this, Kim, it's not uncommon for hardened terrorists to actually talk to authorities.

I've spoken to people who say that's, you know, that's not that in common. They want to boast about what they have accomplished.

[16:35:02] DOZIER: Especially once they are caught and they've got good interrogators working with them and winning them over. Yeah, they want to brag. They want the details out there.

The other thing that might be going on is, if Abrini is aware of any other plots out there, he doesn't want to talk about those so he might be giving up information of things that he finds not to be useful to investigators and keep to himself future plots.

BROWN: Potentially like what we saw with Salah Abdeslam. He was arrested and a few days later the attacks happened in Brussels.

Kim Dozier, thank you very much.

And coming up on the Saturday after a quiet couple of days on the campaign trail, Donald Trump tries to change the conversation on Twitter. While Ted Cruz, sweeps up delegates in Colorado. Our political panel breaks it down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Breaking news. CNN can now project that Bernie Sanders has won the Wyoming Democratic caucuses.

Right now, Bernie Sanders is speaking at a rally in Long Island City, New York. Let's listen in to see if there is any reaction to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS (in unison): Bernie. Bernie. Bernie. Bernie. Bernie. Bernie.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, here's what else you got. You know, I think Kal Penn (ph) was making this point about how we look at the status quo. And what I beg of you, do not accept that the status quo that we have today has got to extend for decades.

[16:40:09] What the media does, what Congress does, what the establishment does is to tell you tell you, "Hey, this is the way it is. It can't change."

Yeah, we have a terrible and unequal distribution of wealth and income. So what? That's the way it is. It can't be changed. And what we have got to do is envision a nation in which in fact real change takes place.

Now, right now, right now in this country, we have millions of people working longer hours for lower wages than was the case 20 or 30 years ago.

You know want to know why people are angry? Because you got men and women in the work force whose real inflation adjusted incomes are substantially lower than they were 40 years ago, or 10 years ago.

And people are asking how does it happen? We got all of this technology which makes workers more productive, we got a global economy, you got all of these free trade agreements, why is it that people are working two or three jobs in order to cobble together the income and the health care they need? Something does not add up here.

And here is another fact. Today in America, our people in the United States work the longest hours of any people in the industrialized world.

You know, 100 years ago, if you remember history, workers used to march down the streets in demonstrations and they held up these huge banners and the banner said, "We want the 40-hour week." Well you know what, we still haven't not gotten the 40-hour week.

(OFF-MIC)

SANDERS: What?

DEBORAH SHILING, BERNIE SANDERS'S WIFE: You get won in Wyoming.

SANDERS: All right, news bulletin. We just won in Wyoming. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, there we heard it. Bernie Sanders told by his wife the big news that he has just won the Wyoming caucuses as CNN is projecting and you could hear the loud applause and the crowd going crazy to that news at that Bernie Sanders rally there in Long Island City, New York.

And let's turn now to the Republican side. Ted Cruz took a fresh swipe at Donald Trump when he spoke at the Colorado Republican convention today. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R-TX) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, it's easy to talk about making America great again. You can even print that on a baseball cap. But the real question is, do you understand the principles and values that made America great in the first place?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Donald Trump didn't bother going to Colorado for today's Republican convention. Instead, the New York billionaire visited Manhattan's 9/11 Memorial. Cruz is coming off of a big Wisconsin victory and he is picked up 21 of Colorado's 34 pledged delegates.

So, what happens next in the Trump versus Cruz showdown? Let's talk it over with Trump's supporter, Jeffrey Lord and radio host Ben Ferguson.

Jeffrey, first to you, the obvious question here, why did Trump decide to skip Colorado entirely? Doesn't that give Cruz the advantage there?

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. Well, I think the thing to do is concentrate on your home base at this stage. We all remember what happened to Marco Rubio when he sort of took Florida for granted. Never take your base for granted.

Senator Cruz spent a lot of time in Texas when it could have been another places. I think he was wise to do so. Donald Trump is staying in New York to emphasize those good old fashioned New York values.

Most of my families from New York, they got great values and Donald Trump is sticking up for those values. It's a good thing.

BROWN: OK. So, Ben, you're a Cruz supporter. Talking about New York values, the Trump campaign is really going after Cruz, can reviving that argument against him for what he said. He hasn't really backed off from saying that, though. What do you make of that strategy?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look. First of all, the first person to talk about New York values was Donald Trump. Ted Cruz was quoting Donald Trump. He even admitted that his values are different than the rest of this country. That's the reason why he's been able to support people like Charlie Rangel and Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer in New York.

He said he's more liberal. Remember, this is the same place we did interview talking about how he was in favor of partial birth abortion and all forms of abortion if he was president. He was talking about that in New York.

So, for him to somehow act like this is a swipe at him, Ted Cruz is making it very clear, New York and what Donald Trump has said there is his true political ideology.

[16:45:03] His true political history has been out of New York as a New York liberal. Not as New York conservative, but as a liberal.

And so I think what the point that you're hearing Ted make is, let's not forget, this is where he started in New York. This is where he says he got his values, and he supported liberal ideas, liberal causes and people like Hillary Clinton, Chuck Schumer and Charlie Rangel. I'm just quoting him on his own words and if he finds that offensive, then so be it.

BROWN: So, I've got to ask you, Jeffrey because when you look at this past week, this isn't the typical Donald Trump we've seen. He's been pretty under the radar, kind of low key this past week. And we've learned that there has been a little bit shift in his campaign, shift in strategy. What do you make of that? What's this all about?

LORD: Perfectly normal. Campaigns evolve. And as you become more -- as you get closer to an actual nomination, your campaign enlarges, you change, you bring on new people. This happens all the time. This is perfectly routine.

BROWN: So, it's not in response to losing Wisconsin and another controversy surrounding him?

LORD: No, no, no. I mean, you have to keep going. I mean, he's lost Wisconsin, but I have a belief here that he'll win New York. He is ahead of Senator Cruz. So, I expect that Senator Cruz will be making various adjustments as he goes along. There's nothing in the least abnormal about this.

BROWN: OK. So, Ben the race fairly -- oh, go ahead.

FERGUSON: Now, for a guy that has talked about winning so much, he's been losing a lot lately. And I think that's what you see is the reason why he's been...

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: ... in New York.

In New York, he is having a total reset with his campaign. It's been a disaster when it comes to delegates. Even understanding delegates, how the delegate count works. His campaign has been simple from the beginning. I fly on a big plane, I get off that plane, have a big rally and I'm out of there. There is not been a ground game.

We saw the weaknesses now of his campaign moving forward, especially in Wisconsin, now in Colorado as well. And I think what you see here is they are starting to realize that they have not prepared for this presidential campaign.

And if you can't, you know, get your campaign right. I don't know why people think somehow he's going to be able to handle the country's business as the president of the United States of America.

His campaign is failing state by state right now, because it has to be bigger than just Donald Trump and he hasn't let it be anything but Donald Trump.

BROWN: Jeffrey Lord, final thoughts.

LORD: Well, I think -- my friend Ben is sticking up for his candidate, which is why I like Ben, he's a great guy.

I would just suggest that Donald Trump is doing exactly what he has to do. We're a long way from finished with this. He is in fact in front, Senator Cruz is losing, that's why Senator Cruz is in Colorado today to try and make up the ground and he's not getting very far.

FERGUSON: Right. He is winning in Colorado. I like Colorado today, a whole lot.

BROWN: Which like we talked about, Trump, though, is focusing on New York, Ted Cruz winning in Colorado. We'll see what happens in the New York primary rose around.

Ben Ferguson, Jeffrey Lord, thank you very much.

FERGUSON: Thanks.

LORD: Thanks ...

BROWN: And -- no problem. And a special program we note for you now. CNN Anderson Cooper will host a town hall with Donald Trump alongside his wife, Melania, and daughter Ivanka. That will be Tuesday night, April 12th at 9:00 Eastern. You won't want to miss it.

And coming up right here on this Saturday, the Pope calling for more compassion in the Catholic Church when it comes to divorce and gay parishioners. So, how is it being received? We'll discuss.

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[16:52:10] BROWN: Well, Pope Francis wants more acceptance for Catholics who are gay, lesbian, divorced or living together outside of marriage.

In a highly anticipated paper called "Unloved in the Family" the Pope writes, "It can no longer simply be said that all those living in any 'irregular situation' are living in a state of mortal sin." The Pope is not changing Catholic doctrine on homosexuality, marriage, birth control or abortion. And here to talk about this, Father Timothy Kesicki.

Father, there's have been some strong reaction to this. You're a president of the Jesuit Conference of Canada and the U.S. which works to promote the church's common goals. Will the Pope's call for acceptance on these issues be considered one of the church's common goals?

TIMOTHY KESICKI S.J., PRESIDENT, JESUIT CONFERENCE OF THE U.S. AND CANADA: Yes. Pope Francis is as consistent and persistent in his call for a very, very pastoral church. Pope Francis loves sinners.

You maybe remember in one of his very first interviews he said, "I am a sinner, yet called to be a companion of Christ." And he wants to extend that hand to sinners.

Many people have not read the full in assortation (ph), its 200 pages. And so they are learning about it through programs such as yours. Well, what they hear is very consoling. It's very encouraging and it's very hopeful.

BROWN: OK. So let's talk about what this means for Catholics who are divorced or those who are gay or lesbian. What's the take away from what you've read?

KESICKI: Well, you had a quote there about living in a state of mortal sin. And often people who are in a regular situations were told that they were living in sin, which droves them away from church or drove them away from their faith.

And so he's turning to priests and to pastors. He's turning at the local level to encourage people who feel that they are in this situation to feel welcome, loved and accepted so they can talk with their pastor, their shepherds and find out how they can move closer to living in fullness in their relationship and living as he says, as God intends for them to live.

BROWN: I read a couple of that though from critics who say that this adds just more confusion and it makes people turn more to their individual conscience than perhaps the church for guidance. What do you -- what's your reaction to that?

KESICKI: Well, there's a substantive part of the letter where he talks about and this is consistent with church teaching that the church teaching informs the human conscience. The church doesn't tell people what to do. It informs their conscience so that they make conscientious choices. So that is consistent with church teaching.

Clearly, there are some who want a smaller and purer church, but Pope Francis is saying he's used the image of a church as a field hospital. He wants the doors thrown open to everyone and those who are wounded he wants us to go out and heal their immediate needs and wounds.

[16:55:09] And so, I think that that image is, again, bringing a lot of hope to many people.

BROWN: All right, Father Tim Kesicki, thank you very much for sharing your perspective. We really appreciate it.

KESICKI: Thank you.

BROWN: And coming up on the Saturday, live reports on the breaking news, Bernie Sanders has just won the Democratic caucuses in Wyoming. Here he is right here speaking in New York. The site of the next big contest.

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BROWN: You are in the "CNN NEWSROOM". I'm Pamela Brown in Washington and for Poppy Harlow, great to have you along with us on this Saturday.

Well, for Bernie Sanders, the center of the political universe today is Wyoming. Sanders has won the Wyoming Democratic caucus by a wide margin, 14 delegates there. Sanders has now won eight of the last nine state contests. And now he's gearing up for a brutal fight against Hillary Clinton in New York.

Clinton, meanwhile, is about to take the stage soon in Brooklyn. We are monitoring that.

And for Republicans, today all eyes are on Colorado. Ted Cruz has scooped up 21 of Colorado's 34 pledged delegates. The remaining 13 delegates will be tapped tonight.

I want to bring in Popper Kerman (ph) in Cheyenne, Wyoming to get more on this reaction to Sanders victory there. You've been speaking to.