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Trump Slams Delegate System; Democrats Battle for New York; NFL Star Killed. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired April 11, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[14:00:11] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Pamela Brown in New York. Brooke Baldwin is out today.

We begin with the accusations flying in the race for the White House. Is the Colorado convention a preview of what's to come when the Republican National Convention meets in July? Ted Cruz wins in what's being called a voterless victory. And Donald Trump cries foul. Trump broke several days of media silence to protest after Cruz won 34 delegates in Colorado's Republican convention over the weekend. But there is no primary, no caucus. Instead, convention goers pick the candidate's delegates. And some of Trump's delegates were hindered by misspellings and misnumbered paperwork that showed Trump's ground game may need some work. But Trump today on Fox News insisted the delegate system is the problem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): Colorado, where they frankly - where they - they, you know, just get all of these delegates and it's not a system. There was no voting. I didn't go out there to make a speech or anything. There's no voting. And, you know, I heard Pete say, well, that's the way it is. Well, that really shouldn't be the way it is. This was changed in the summer to help a guy like Cruz and it's not right. Now, you know, I won, as an example, South Carolina. I won it by a landslide, like a massive landslide, and now they're trying to pick off those delegates one by one. That's not the way democracy is supposed to work. Now, I'm an outsider, and I came into the system and I'm winning the votes by millions of votes. But the system is rigged, it's crooked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So Cruz's camp in response says that he won fairly through a, quote, "superior organization."

I'm going to turn now to Ari Armstrong, a political blogger and writer and a Colorado Republican.

Ari, you attended Saturday's convention and you're against Trump's nomination. When you were there, tell us what you witnessed in terms of how organized the campaigns were, you know, Trump versus Cruz.

ARI ARMSTRONG, ATTENDED COLORADO REPUBLICAN CONVENTION: Well, Ted Cruz appeared, so obviously that made a difference, whereas Donald Trump did not appear at all. But Donald Trump, unfortunately, is simply misinformed. And something you remarked was - reflects some of that distortion. We do have a caucus process in Colorado. There was voting. I first went to my local precincts. At the precincts, which was open to all Colorado Republicans who have been registered for at least a month. Then people were elected as delegates to the state and congressional conventions. And there's where we selected the national delegates. So I was actually an alternate to the state convention, so I got to observe the entire process, though I myself did not get to vote on the national delegates.

BROWN: But some would look at this process and you actually even said in your article that this process adds an extra layer of representation. But would that extra layer take away the voter's voice more as Trump is contending here? And, you know, he's basically saying, this is not a democratic process.

ARMSTRONG: Well, look, representative politics is hardly a newfangled idea in America. That's the basis of American government, right? But the fact is, here's the essential point. This year, Colorado Republicans selected national delegates exactly the same way as they have in previous years, through the caucus process. Now, there was one change, but it did not affect the selection of national delegates.

The change is this. We used to have a nonbinding straw poll. So it was basically a preference poll. People could go to their precinct caucuses and say, I want candidate x or y. That was dropped due to the - conflicts with the new national rules conflicting with the state rules. Basically the national party said, you can't have a nonbinding preference poll. So the state party said, well, we're not going to have a poll at all. But, again, this doesn't affect at all how the national delegates are selected.

And, you know, I'm new Republican. I just registered late last year because I wanted to get involved in this process. So these decisions about the poll were made before I was even in the party, right. But the fact is that the caucus system is about voting. It's about voting for delegates though. So it's not directly voting which candidate do you want, it's which delegate do you want.

Look, in my precinct caucus, the people running for delegate, and anybody can run for delegate, you just go to a meeting and stand up and say, I want to run for delegate. And the woman in my -

BROWN: And you're an alternate delegate, right?

ARMSTRONG: Sorry. Yes. But the woman who ran - who -

BROWN: You're an alternate delegate.

ARMSTRONG: Yes. The woman who was a delegate was - said, look, here's my platform. I don't support Trump. And she was elected on that basis.

Now, look Trump complains, oh, the system isn't fair. But the fact is, Trump did poorly in Colorado because Trump just isn't that popular here. And I - and, in fact, one of my friends is a huge Cruz supporter and his complaint about not having a binding poll is he thought that having a binding poll would have been the strongest way for Colorado to send an anti-Trump message because he was confident that Colorado would have voted against Trump.

So, now, I'm not sure - I haven't seen good polling data on that, so I wouldn't swear one way or another. I think that's probably true, but the simple fact is that -

BROWN: Right. But they think a primary would have worked in their favor even more so.

Let me just ask you this, though, because you're saying basically, look, we do have a voice. We pick the delegates that then went to the state convention. But how can these voters really make an informed decision after all these people get up and give their, you know, ten- second speeches to push their candidate?

[14:05:11] ARMSTRONG: Well, you know, they're 10 second speeches but there's also a long - people have a long time to figure out who these people are, who we want to vote for. And, in fact, the candidates ran slate (ph). So Donald Trump had a slate of candidates and he said, look, if you support me, vote for these national delegates. And Cruz did the same thing.

And so it's not like this was a complete mystery, right? I mean these - we were there - believe me, I went to the state convention. I was there. I got up at 5:00 in the morning. I didn't get home until 10:00 at night because I had to drive to Colorado Springs. So we listened to a lot of speeches. There was a lot of discussion off the floor. Just people chattering about what's going on.

These were - these were votes made with due reflection. And I believe that they do reflect generally the sentiments of most Colorado Republicans. You know, Donald Trump can complain about the system -

BROWN: Right.

ARMSTRONG: But you notice that Donald Trump complains about the rules whenever he loses and whenever he wins the rules are perfectly fine. So, for example, when he takes all the delegates from a state with 40 percent of the vote -

BROWN: OK.

ARMSTRONG: That's not representative, right? He gets 40 percent of the vote and all the delegates. But - but he doesn't complain about that not being representative, right? It's only when he loses.

BROWN: All right, Ari Armstrong, thanks for coming on and sharing your opinion on this matter. We appreciate it.

ARMSTRONG: OK. Thank you, Pam.

BROWN: And moving along, Donald Trump's convention manager also outraged by Ted Cruz's sweep in Colorado, compared Cruz's tactics to the Nazi secret police. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is fair game to win a delegate? Is threatening a fair game? Is threats a fair game?

PAUL MANAFORT, DONALD TRUMP'S CONVENTION MANAGER: It's not my style. It's not Donald Trump's style.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is?

MANAFORT: I'll tell you. And -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What can you (INAUDIBLE)?

MANAFORT: But it is - but it is Ted Cruz's style and that's going to wear thin very fast.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think he's threatening delegates?

MANAFORT: Well, he's threatening the - there - you go to these county conventions and you see the tactic - Gestapo tactics of the (INAUDIBLE) -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gestapo tactics?

MANAFORT: Yes, they are -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a strong word.

MANAFORT: Well, you look it - we are going to be filing several protests because the reality is, they're not playing by the rules.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So with me now, the co-author of the book "Why You're Wrong About the Right," CNN political commentator S.E.Cupp. Also here, Ed O'Keefe, political reporter for "The Washington Post."

Thank you both for coming on.

Ed, first to you. For so long Donald Trump has praised himself for not doing politics the traditional way. And now it seems he's being outfoxed by Cruz on those traditional practices. Do you think that his unconventional style is coming back to bite him?

ED O'KEEFE, POLITICAL REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Absolutely. I think there's evidence of that all over the country. We saw it again over the weekend in Colorado where he was, indeed, outfoxed. It happened to some extent in South Carolina as well. And in Iowa, places where he could have very well had people who support him win delegate slots but didn't. And he had a better Saturday afternoon in Alabama. He pulled off some tricks in Michigan that are going to make it easier for his voice to be heard from the delegates there. And the process is beginning in Nevada and they had a pretty good weekend getting it started out there. But there are definitely examples of his team not understanding the

complex rules. There are 56 states and territories that vote in the Republican race for president. All of them have different rules and traditions of doing this. It requires understanding all of that, especially in a year like this. And so far the Trump campaign is struggling to do that.

BROWN: And also it takes an understanding of when to register to votes, S.E. Cupp. Trump acknowledged today that his children, Ivanka and Eric, missed the deadline to register and they won't be able to vote for their father in the upcoming New York primary in eight days. What does that say about the Trump campaign's organization? I mean Ivanka, correct me if I'm wrong, was even featured in videos on how to register to vote.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Well, I - you know, I won't get into - into the kids, but it's very clear that Donald Trump and his team didn't really either understand or anticipate the delegate process, the fights for delegates being important for this season. And it's important most election cycles. But Donald Trump seems to have kind of like a middle school civics class understanding of how we elect a president. And it's not just a, you know, popularity contest, much as he wishes it were.

It's also, I think, worth pointing out that for all of his complaints, he's actually winning more delegates percentagewise than he is actual votes. The delegate system is benefiting Donald Trump tremendously. And I think that complaining about the loss in Colorado is tactically dumb. It just points out the loss. And politically dumb. It just shows people looking sort of at the failure of your organization. These are not things that are sort of put - thrown together at the last minute. Donald Trump and his team should have been preparing for these delegate fights for months and months and months. And it seems to be something they're trying to do now at the last minute.

BROWN: And, Ed, "The Washington Post" did a deep dive on Trump's charitable giving and it found that he doesn't give his own cash. Tell us about the reporting here.

O'KEEFE: Well, that's by my colleagues, David Fahrenthold and Ros Helderman. And what they discovered essentially is that a list that had been provided by the campaign of alleged charitable donations were mostly in kind donations. Either free rounds of golf at his golf courses, flights on his plane, or some other kind of donation that didn't actually result in cash being given out. This was a list that was originally obtained by the Associated Press that we got our hands on and the Trump campaign, you know, didn't respond to all of our questions but has to acknowledge that in most of these cases here, he was not actually giving out money.

[14:10:31] There are some separate questions and concerns about that fundraiser you'll remember he held in Iowa when he skipped a Fox News debate. Most of the money raised that night has not been given out yet to veterans organizations. So there are questions about whether or not the candidate is following through on his deeds with some of the things that he's been saying. BROWN: Interesting. But there are people with the Trump Foundation who

are saying he actually has given cash donations, but we don't put that out there because we don't want to cause a feeding frenzy essentially.

S.E., before that complaint about the delegate system that we've been hearing from Donald Trump, that the system is rigged, he'd been uncharacteristically low key. He didn't do any Sunday morning talk shows. The first time in several months. What do you make of that?

CUPP: Look, the Trump campaign had a couple of really bad weeks. I mean bad even for Trump. You know, finally, finally weeks where you think some - they were facing some consequences of their actions. And those actions included the Heidi Cruz retweet that was really unseemly and he admitted was a mistake, rolling out some policy proposals that have been openly mocked, and making some pretty bad decisions on the campaign trail. I think that - seeing the results of that, especially in Wisconsin, I think maybe, you know, prompted Trump and the campaign to go dark for just a bit, retool, look at their organization, ask some hard questions, maybe lay off the retweeting late at night and start to take this race more seriously. He is the frontrunner, but he hasn't really been acting like it. I don't think he's been acting as serious a candidate as he should be. And maybe they're starting to take that role and the mantel of frontrunner more seriously now.

BROWN: All right, S.E. Cupp, Ed O'Keefe, thank you very much.

And, by the way, beginning tonight, a unique event on CNN, town halls with all three Republican candidates, their wives and children. John Kasich tonight, Donald Trump tomorrow, Ted Cruz Wednesday, all starting at 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.

And up next, Vice President Joe Biden perhaps letting it slip who he'd vote for. This as Bill Clinton responds to the backlash over his heated clash with Black Lives Matter protesters.

Plus, breaking developments in the capture of the self-proclaimed man in the hat terrorist. He's apparently singing like a bird behind bars, even revealing their next target was one of the world's biggest sporting events.

And a new twist in that roadside murder of a former NFL star. We'll be back.

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[14:16:50] BROWN: With just eight days until New York voters go to the polls, the Democratic race for president is now an all-out blitz for votes. Both Hillary Clinton and Senator Bernie Sanders holding dueling campaign events at this hour in the empire state. And now Vice President Joe Biden is weighing in on the race and giving his thoughts on electing a woman president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator Bernie Sanders actually just said that Hillary Clinton isn't qualified to be president. And some are staying -

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's totally different. Look, look -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some are saying, though, that that's a sexist remark.

BIDEN: Well, look, look, they're both totally qualified to be president. They both get into a fight. Campaigns will do this. It's like saying, you know, she's dead wrong or he - her saying he's dead wrong on an issue. You cannot - you cannot argue that if he said she's not qualified because she's a woman, she's not qualified because she's -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, do you think she's held to a higher standard because she is a woman?

BIDEN: No, I don't think she's held to a higher standard. And this country's ready for a women. There's no problem. We're going to be able to elect a woman in this country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you like to see us elect a woman for president?

BIDEN: I would like to see a woman elected.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Print (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's it.

BIDEN: No, no, that's all right. No, I'd like to - no, I don't mind the (INAUDIBLE). I'm not getting into that - I'm not getting -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd like to ask one more question. The -

BIDEN: The - the - the president and I are not going to endorse because we both, when we ran, said, let the party decide. But gosh almighty, they're both qualified. Hillary's - Hillary's overwhelmingly qualified to be president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: CNN's senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny joins us now from Port Washington, New York, where Clinton is holding a campaign event any moment now.

How is it there, Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good afternoon, Pamela.

Secretary Clinton is holding an event right now behind me. You can probably see it. It's an event on gun violence. So a very emotional discussion. I'm going to keep my voice down if I can here.

But really the debate between Senator Sanders and Secretary Clinton is all leading toward that big debate on Thursday here on CNN where they are already showing their differences on everything from immigration, to gun violence, to Wall Street reform, to even fracking. Bernie Sanders is out with a new ad today in New York raising questions about the contributions Secretary Clinton has gotten. It's getting so tense between these two candidates. Secretary Clinton talked about this just a short time ago at a diner in Queens.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think it will be lively and I have noticed that under the bright spotlight and scrutiny here in New York, Senator Sanders has had trouble answering questions. He's had trouble answering questions about his core issue, namely dealing with the banks. He's had trouble answering foreign policy questions. And so I look forward to a debate that is in New York with people asking the kind of questions that New Yorkers ask.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, Pamela, it's clear that Secretary Clinton started the day wanting to talk about Donald Trump. She's up with a new ad really going after Donald Trump. The point of this here is she's trying to show Democrats that she is the strongest candidate to go against him should he win the Republican nomination. But she is ending the day spending more type focusing on Bernie Sanders than Donald Trump, Pamela.

BROWN: All right, what does that say? Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much for that.

[14:20:00] And Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders will meet on stage of course on CNN this Thursday night, just days before the New York primary. The debate will be anchored by Wolf Blitzer, along with Errol Louis, starting at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

And up next, was it road rage or something more? Former NFL star shot and killed after a fender bender in New Orleans. But it's his unusual connection to the gunman that's raising questions about a possible motive in this case. We'll have an update.

Plus, a chilling confession. Sources tell CNN that captured suspects of the Belgian terror attacks is now talking to investigators, revealing which major sporting event his terror cell planned to target next. Stay with us. We'll be back.

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[14:25:11] BROWN: New Orleans Police say the cold-blooded murder of a beloved former NFL star may be connected to a wrongful death lawsuit a decade ago. Former New Orleans Saints team captain Will Smith was gunned down Saturday night following a fender bender. Authorities say Cardell Hayes rear ended Smith's car and the two got into a verbal altercation and then Hayes shot him to death. He is now charged with second degree murder. Smith's wife, Racquel, was in the car as well. She was shot in the leg and is still recovering in the hospital. Hayes' attorney, though, says despite reports, his client was not the aggressor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN FULLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I can tell you that my client was not the aggressor in terms of the behavior that happened after the accident. Not only did my client call 911, but my client secured a witness who was about to leave the scene and my client waited for law enforcement to arrive. Now, tell me if that's the behavior that's consistent with someone who's an animal out here looking for blood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: In an unexpected twist here, before that shooting, Smith was having dinner with New Orleans Officer Billy Ceravolo, who Hayes had sued back in 2006 in connection with his father's death. So now police are investigating that as a possible motive.

Joining me now is Jonathan Bullington. He is a New Orleans reporter with nola.com and "The Times-Picayune."

So, Jonathan, what more are you learning about this possible link between that 2006 lawsuit and the shooting?

JONATHAN BULLINGTON, REPORTER, NOLA.COM AND "THE TIMES-PICAYUNE": Well, there's not much new to report at present. It's still believed that this was nothing more than a strange coincidence. The police department and Hayes' attorney said that they don't believe that Hayes and Smith knew each other or certainly that Hayes had set out to target Smith at the time. So we're obviously still following it, but right now there's nothing new to report on that front.

BROWN: OK. So Hayes' attorney, as we just heard there, say that his client was not the aggressor. Have you heard any new details that would support that claim?

BULLINGTON: No. We've asked about it this morning. Certainly if all that Mr. Fuller said is true, then there would be some kind of 911 calls to support that. The police department hasn't released any of that information yet to us. My guess is they're still trying to piece it together themselves, kind of backtrack and see if there are any available witnesses or anything that can support this claim that it was a hit and run prior to the shooting.

BROWN: And, of course, one of the witnesses here was Smith's wife, who is still in the hospital. Have you received any word about how she's doing and what she saw?

BULLINGTON: No, I know the police chief - the city's police chief and the mayor went and visited - went and visited her earlier today. I'm under the impression that she should recover from her wounds at least, but, of course, there's still the kind of emotional scars of what she witnessed and what transpired.

BROWN: Oh, absolutely. So this officer, Ceravolo, what more can you tell us about why he was having dinner with Smith that night, any other details from their night together? BULLINGTON: Yes, they - well, they've been - I understand that they've

been friends for quite some time and that Ceravolo and another former Saints player, Pier Thomas, were having dinner and a sushi restaurant over on Madison Street here in New Orleans and they contacted Smith and said that they were there having dinner. Again, they're all kind of longtime friends. So Smith and his wife came over. By all accounts it was, you know, a nice night with friends. And they had decided that they were all going to continue the party, so to speak, before all this happened.

BROWN: It's just awful. If there's not a possible link, just a bizarre consequence there and just a tragedy all around.

Jonathan Bullington, thank you very much for that.

And up next, his brother, an immigrant, murdered in a hate crime by a gang of white teens targeting Hispanics. And now he's speaking out against Donald Trump because the frontrunner is coming to the very street of the crime scene. He joins me live with his message for Trump.

Plus, the ISIS cell suspected in the Brussels and Paris attacks was planning to attack one of the world's biggest sporting events. How do authorities know this? Well, because the self-proclaimed man in the hat is spilling secrets behind bars.

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