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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Trump Calls Delegate System Corrupt; Democrats Battle for New York; Georgia Murder Trial. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 11, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:25] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello there. I'm John Berman, in for Ashleigh Banfield today. This is LEGAL VIEW.

New today, Donald Trump says the system is rigged. With just eight days to go until the crucial New York primary, Trump says the process of choosing delegates is unfair. That might have something to do with the fact that his team is having trouble with that process. Senator Ted Cruz swept up all of Colorado's 34 delegates this weekend. The convention there handed Cruz a huge victory, albeit one without a vote being cast in a primary or a caucus. And that fact is not sitting well with Donald Trump. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This was change in the summer to help a guy like Bruce and it's not right now. You know, I won, as an example, South Carolina. I won it by a landslide. Like a massive landslide. And now they're trying to pick off those delegates one by one. That's not the way democracy is supposed to work. And, you know, they -- they offer them trips. They offer them all sorts of things. And you're allowed to do that. I mean you're allowed to offer trips and you can buy all these votes. What kind of system is this? Now, I'm an outsider and I came into the system and I'm winning the votes by millions of votes, but the system is rigged. It's crooked.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining us now with more is CNN's Phil Mattingly.

Phil, the Trump campaign not only angry at the nominating process but now the convention manager Paul Manafort says the Cruz team is using gestapo tactics.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, John, it's something the Cruz team has rejected. But here's a reality in this. The Cruz campaign has worked harder behind the scenes, on the ground, through their grassroots operation in these types of states than any other campaign out there. And for Donald Trump's team, that's become a major problem. If you look over the last week alone, what's happened in say North Dakota a couple of weeks ago, what happened obviously in Colorado over the weekend, this was Ted Cruz's campaign working for months in advance to set up a system where they could succeed. Now, the rules, as you pointed out, particularly in Colorado, seem a

little bit awkward. Voters don't really have a say here. But the rules are what they are and Ted Cruz's team has really set themselves up to take advantage of those rules, John.

BERMAN: Yes, he's got a plane, he's got some golf balls, maybe it's time to work the rules if you're Donald Trump. You know, Phil, CNN's Jeremy Diamon (ph), Sara Diamon (ph), did some reporting over the week about how Donald Trump was trying to lay low, trying to maybe take a step back in this campaign. He did no Sunday shows. Maybe coast into the New York primary, especially with a new poll showing that he has a big lead here in New York. How does this lashing out, saying that the system is rigged, how does that -- how does that jive with the whole I'm taking a step back narrative?

MATTINGLY: For the first time in almost four months that Donald Trump hadn't done a Sunday show. But, look, it actually tracks well with what his message has been all along, pointing to what happened in Colorado, pointing to what happened in North Dakota, saying what's going on here is because I'm an outsider candidate and the establishment is trying to take advantage of me. That is a message that has worked up to this point. That is a message his supporters clearly subscribe to. And it's one that Donald Trump, even as he started to take a little bit of a step back over the last couple of days, is willing to put back out there again.

But, John, make no mistake about it, what Donald Trump has been doing over the last four or five days is having very hard discussions with his campaign, with Paul Manafort, his new convention manager, trying to figure out how to blunt the momentum Ted Cruz has been able to gain on the state level in these past couple of weeks. If you want to get to that 1,237 number, these delegates are extraordinarily valuable. But more important to that, if you can't get to that magic number needed to secure the Republican nomination before the Cleveland convention, these delegates are completely invaluable. Donald Trump and his team need to figure out a way to right that ship and do it fast, John.

BERMAN: Maybe they need to figure it out before, you know, the middle of April. Phil Mattingly, thank you so much.

A lot going on here at CNN this week. Tonight, the first of three special CNN town halls for the Republican candidates, there's a little bit of a wrinkle this time around. Instead of just the candidates up on stage talking, they will have their families with them. Here to talk more about this, the man behind it all, CNN Politics executive editor Mark Preston.

Mark, what's in store for tonight?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, you know, John, when a candidate decides to run for president, it's not a decision that's made in the vacuum. You have to sit down with your family. You have to decide whether you want to put your family through the wringers (ph) of really this excruciating public revelation of everything about yourself, your wife, and as well as your children. So tonight we actually get to sit down, beginning tonight now, with Governor John Kasich and his wife Karen, as well as their twin daughters, Emma and Reese. They're 15 years old. We're going to hear a little bit about what they think about their father's decision to run, his decision to stay in the race, as well as what really is the driving factor behind John Kasich's bid.

[12:05:08] Now, tomorrow night, as you said, we'll see Donald Trump, his wife Melania and Donald Trump's children. And then on Wednesday night, Ted Cruz and his wife Heidi. Their children are actually very small, but they will be here, as well on Wednesday. I think, John, this gives us an opportunity, and certainly gives the viewers and voters an opportunity to know a little bit more about these candidates right now. As far as when it comes to policy, it really is an open book. Let's get into their personal life a little bit.

BERMAN: Couldn't book the Cruz kids, Mark Preston. No one blames you. No, they are too young to be up there on that stage, although I've seen Ted Cruz and his wife with them and it is pretty adorable I have to say.

PRESTON: It is, John.

BERMAN: Mark Preston, thank you so much for being with us.

Let's talk more about the town hall this week and also just the general state of the Republican race with our panel. Joining us now, CNN political commentator and Donald Trump supporter Kayleigh McEnany. Also with us, CNN political commentator Tara Setmayer and Ron Christie, he's a supporter of Governor John Kasich, and a former special assistant to President George W. Bush.

Tara, you know you heard Donald Trump say the system is rigged. Is the system rigged or is it the system?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The system isn't rigged. You know, this is typical of Donald Trump. Anytime that he doesn't get his way, he throws out these bombs and says, oh, oh, it's not me, it has nothing to do with me, it's everybody else's fault. You know, if this is the presidency, this is the way the rules work, and he should come to play to win, you don't play to whine. And all he does is whine when he doesn't get his way.

You know, this system has been in place where you have to win delegates, the majority of delegates, since 1856, OK, 160 years. He didn't have a problem with the system when he was tweeting in 2012 about delegates and what was going on. He seemed to be quite aware of that. Politico just ran a story with copies of his tweets when he was criticizing Rick Santorum's operation. So he was well aware of what was going on in 2012. Now all of a sudden he's playing this willful, ignorant victim role because he's not winning. He has been -- he's ill prepared. He's been out organized and he's coming late to the game. These are the rules of the game. You don't get to switch them up in the middle of -- in the middle of playing the game.

For instance (ph), really quick, so when you play football, you're going to blame your offensive line for not knowing the playbook if you continue to get sacked and then walk off the field and say, oh, I'm not playing anymore. That's exactly what's happening right now with Donald Trump and he needs to stop whining.

BERMAN: Kayleigh, is it that simple? I mean, look, Donald Trump knew what he was getting into when he signed up for this last June and went down that escalator.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's not that simple. Here's the thing, John, the rules are unfair and I think if you ask the viewers right now, I think it's important for them to understand what happened in Colorado this weekend. So let's look.

Colorado, this weekend, 37 delegates were chosen and the people did not vote. Why was there no vote in Colorado? Because in August of 2015, the Colorado GOP decided that they did not care about the people's vote. They don't care what the people have to say. They got rid of the presidential preference polls because they decide that they were more equipped than the American people, than the people of Colorado, to choose their candidates. And a lot of people say the reason that they chose this is because they were unhappy with how their state voted in the past. They were unhappy that in 2012 their state opted to go with Rick Santorum. So they discarded the will of the people and said, hey, we know best, sorry American people. And in reality, I think if you ask the viewers, should the elections be about elevating the American people? Yes, they should not be about diminishing the American people, which is, in fact, what is going on.

BERMAN: Ron, what about that? I mean Colorado's a big state. It's a swing state. It's a very important state. Is this the best way for Colorado to be nominating a president at a convention without, you know, a single vote cast by the general public?

RON CHRISTIE, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, I think it is. I think what you're talking about here is organization and Tara touched on this --

BERMAN: Yes, no, no, but I understand -- I understand what the Cruz people are doing is fairly and playing by the rules. But in a perfect world, is a convention like this the right way of doing it and not a primary?

CHRISTIE: I think the important thing here, John, is that this is the system that's in place by the Republican Party of Colorado. All of Republican -- all the Republicans who were running for election here said, these are the rules, we understand the rules to be as they are and this is exactly what happened with the folks who were selecting the delegates. So, no, I don't think this is Trump that's getting bested or it's getting stolen. It's, if you want to play the game, if you want to be the person who's going to get those delegates, you have to know what the system is. And, frankly, it proves to me that he does not have the organizational strength on the ground in Colorado or anywhere else. It's all about bluster rather than about substance.

BERMAN: No, it is -- it is clear that this was the game going in.

CHRISTIE: Yes. BERMAN: The question is if it's the right game to be playing in a perfect world if you had to make that choice.

Tara, I want to talk about the game going forward because the next place, the next state to vote, and it will be actual voters voting here in actual booths, is New York. You have New York and then you have a lot of states around New York. You have, you know, you have Connecticut, you have New Jersey, also Delaware and Maryland. Do you see Donald Trump gaining steam perhaps. The Fox News poll had him pretty far out ahead here in New York. He's looking good in the polls in Pennsylvania, as well. Is the future brighter for Donald Trump?

SETMAYER: I think as far as winning the vote in those states, yes, this is what -- that's not news though. Everyone knew that the Northeast would be friendly to Donald Trump. But it's becoming more about a delegate game at this point. And the fact that, you know, the Trump supporters continue to say that will the people -- thwarting the will of the people. Donald Trump has only garnered 37 percent of the vote and only 43 percent of the delegates. That means the will of the people, the majority, do not want Donald Trump. So this is just one of those deflecting tactics that they're using to say that we're thwarting the will of the people.

[12:10:23] The majority of the people do not want Donald Trump, but it's a good talking point because, unfortunately, a lot of Americans don't understand how the system works. They don't understand that it is not necessarily in a primary process, that delegates actually are the ones who cast the votes for the presidential nominee, not one vote, one person. That's not how it works. And pure democracy is not what we have. We have a republic. There are checks and balances for a reason. So then Trump supporters like Kayleigh, I guess, think that we shouldn't have an electoral college. But I don't see Donald Trump advocating that we throw out the whole system back in 2012 when it wasn't -- you know, when it didn't matter to him.

MCENANY: Well, you know -- no (INAUDIBLE) --

BERMAN: Kayleigh, go ahead.

MCENANY: First -- first of all, the electoral college, that's a false comparison because in all of history, only 157 electors have gone against the will of their party, have gone against who they pledged to support. So that's a false argument.

SETMAYER: But that's the system. That's the system, though.

MCENANY: Second of all, let's use --

SETMAYER: It's the (INAUDIBLE) concept, Kayleigh.

MCENANY: No, let me finish, Tara.

BERMAN: Let's give (INAUDIBLE) to talk.

MCENANY: Second of all, Tara, if we go by your logic where you say Donald Trump's already -- only garnered 40 percent of the vote, therefore 60 percent are against him. By your own logic, Ted Cruz has only garnered 30 percent of the vote, so 70 percent are against him.

SETMAYER: Ted Cruz isn't whining about losing.

MCENANY: John Kasich has only garnered 10 percent of the vote, so 90 percent are against him. That is a completely false argument and by your own logic, your defeating your candidate.

SETMAYER: No, it isn't, because Ted Cruz isn't whining about the system being stacked against him. That's the difference. Ted Cruz understands the rules.

MCENANY: Your --

SETMAYER: Donald Trump is the one trying to turn it around to say that the will of the people is being thwarted.

BERMAN: Kayleigh.

SETMAYER: No one else is using that argument but Donald Trump because he's not understanding the process and this is what he does.

BERMAN: Kayleigh.

SETMAYER: He cuts and runs and quickly whines when he doesn't get his way.

MCENANY: Well, the fact that your --

BERMAN: Go ahead, Kayleigh.

MCENANY: The fact that you're saying Ted Cruz doesn't like the system has nothing to do with your mathematical argument that Donald Trump has 60 percent of people against him. Stick to your own argument. By your own argument, Ted Cruz has 70 percent of people against him. How are -- how do you justify that? I'm using your own words, your own argument against you and you're just deflecting by saying Ted Cruz is -- is saying -- is not saying this is unfair. You're changing the subject because by your own argument you're losing the argument.

SETMAYER: That's not true at all. Completely untrue.

BERMAN: All right, guys, we have several more weeks here in this campaign to hash out this argument and figure out where it heads. Ron, Tara, Kayleigh, thanks so much for joining us.

CHRISTIE: Thanks.

MCENANY: Thank you.

BERMAN: Tonight on CNN, we have the Kasich family. It's the beginning of a three night town hall event. John Kasich live in New York with his wife Karen and their twin teenage daughters. Tomorrow night it will be the Trump family. And then on Wednesday, Ted Cruz and his wife. Each of these town halls begin at 9:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN.

Up next, Donald Trump not the only one complaining about the way delegates are dolled out. Kayleigh McEnany complaining too. You just heard it. But also Bernie Sanders slamming the system. Also slamming Hillary Clinton while she turns her attention to Donald Trump. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:16:50] BERMAN: All right, Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton with a big push just days before a big CNN debate in Brooklyn. The candidates scheduled to face off on Thursday night. Senator Sanders continuing his criticism and his complaints about Hillary Clinton, saying she -- well, questioning her judgment to be president. Hillary Clinton, she has her husband, the former president, Bill Clinton, rallying votes. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Secretary Clinton has given speeches behind closed doors to large Wall Street financial institutions for a tidy $250,000 a speech. Now, what I kind of think, you're going to get $250,000 for a speech, it must be an extraordinary brilliant speech. It must be a speech for $250,000 that will probably solve all of the problems facing the world.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: We've got to win. I was raised to believe in every competition I was ever in, the worst mistake you could ever make is to look past the fight you're in to the next one. We have to win New York on April 19th with a big victory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining us now, CNN political commentators Marc Lamont Hill and Errol Louis.

Errol, let me start with you. Just give us a state of the race right now because for days we had both candidates basically agreeing that the other one was not qualified to be president. Now they've backed off this a little bit. You know, they have, you know, caveats. Maybe a little bit qualified. Where are we?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, they've dialed that back a little bit because they said at the same time the other person isn't qualified, however, I'll support them if they become the nominee. So that contradiction, I think, played out enough and they -- they decided what -- what's going to win it for them is just what former President Clinton was talking about, which is to actually just go ahead and win it. I mean they're coming down the home stretch. They've got sort of some complicated math that they have to do to try and win by congressional district, as well as to try and, you know, sort of do all of the hoopla, the big ads and sort of find all of the pockets of their voters and get them mobilized, energized and out to vote. So I think they're parting aside some of the harsh rhetoric, leaving that to the talking heads and the organization on the ground is going to be what really tells the story here.

BERMAN: It's interesting you brought up what Bill Clinton said there, who just said, you know, you have to win, you have to fight the fight you're in, because I want to show you -- I want to show you a couple of ads right now. A couple of new campaign ads. There's a new Hillary Clinton ad which doesn't talk about Bernie Sanders. There's also a new Bernie Sanders ad and let's watch them and discuss.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump says we can solve America's problems by turning against each other. It's wrong and it goes against everything New York and America stand for.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With so much at stake, she's the one tough enough to stop Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Values forged in New York. Brooklyn born, native son, who knows what we know, we're all in this together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Brooklyn -- Brooklyn born native son. But what struck me, Marc, is, you know, Bill Clinton, just moments ago, said focus the -- focus on the fight that you're in, not the one down the line. Hillary Clinton's got an ad talking about Donald Trump. Isn't that focusing on the fight down the line?

[12:20:05] MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. It's the classic Clinton sleight of hand here. You know, you say one thing so the voters don't feel disrespected, but in the back of your mind you want to signal to voters that we're kind of over this. Let's -- this thing is done. Let's move on to the next big fight which is Donald Trump or a Ted Cruz or whomever.

BERMAN: Hasn't he gotten in trouble doing that, though. You know, she's tried to pivot like five times over since the fall.

HILL: Right. Well, it looked like she could pivot because she had a successful run where she trounced him in South Carolina. It looked like she was going to just walk -- walk to the nomination and then suddenly she loses eight out of nine and it's a whole different game. The math still is in Bernie's favor, but he still can win this fight if things don't go well. So now they have to kind of do both.

LOUIS: I mean you also want to keep in mind, it is an (INAUDIBLE) argument in Clinton's favor to say that I'm the person, if you're scared of Donald Trump, I'm the person who can beat him. Now, the polls don't necessarily show that --

LEMON: I was going to say --

LOUIS: To be the case, but they're making a very emotional appeal. I mean when I talked to John Podesta the other day, I interviewed him, and he says, picture on January, Donald Trump sitting in that limousine, riding to the Capitol to be sworn in as president of the United States. They're making this sort of an anti-Trump movement and that conveniently sort of pushes aside the fight that's right in front of him and tries to position her as somebody who can take on the big fight ahead. It is very much part of her appeal to the voters right now.

BERMAN: It's obvious, you know, Hillary Clinton needs to win her home state. She needs to win here in New York.

HILL: Absolutely.

BERMAN: The polls right now have her out ahead of Bernie Sanders here in New York. Maybe not as far ahead as she was, but what does Bernie Sanders need to do in New York, guys? I mean if he doesn't beat Hillary Clinton here, if he loses, and look at that margin right there, if it's 16 points, if it's 12 points, if it's 10 points --

HILL: Yes.

BERMAN: Is that a fatal blow for Bernie Sanders?

HILL: Fatal -- I never want to say fatal, but you could never say never in American politics. Anything could happen. However, if you get trounced in New York by 16 percent, when you already don't have the math in your favor, it stops the momentum you've gained. The only hope Bernie Sanders has right now is to keep winning states, to make those super delegates change their minds and to make voters say, hey, Hillary's not inevitable and make them remember eight years ago when she also thought she was inevitable until she wasn't.

BERMAN: Bernie's now (ph) up to 11 right now, Errol, you know, questioning Hillary Clinton's judgment yesterday, talking about whether she was qualified, saying she's not qualified all last week. If he doesn't win New York, do you think he'll continue with that past?

LOUIS: You know, it's an interesting question. It was something that "The New York Times" sort of -- did a sort of a month-by-month analysis of how he ratcheted up the rhetoric to get to this point because, in the end, if she's sort of a quasi-incumbent favorite, darling of the party, you have to do what challengers do to incumbents. You have to say, this person should be fired. This person should be fired in this case, not as an office holder, but as the darling, the favorite, --

BERMAN: Right.

LOUIS: The institutional favorite of the Democratic Party. We want to do something different. He's picking a fight within the party. He has every right to do so. There are the numbers that suggest that it's a fight that was going to happen sooner or later. He just happens to be the person who's leading it. And he can't give that up if he really wants to win.

BERMAN: We'll see what happens Thursday night.

HILL: Absolutely.

BERMAN: Wow! And, guys, in the debate it will be interesting to see what strategies they take.

Marc, Errol, great to have you here with us. I really appreciate it.

LOUIS: Thank you.

BERMAN: Do not miss the Democratic debate on CNN live from Brooklyn Thursday night. It starts at 9:00 Eastern only on CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:41] BERMAN: All right, in the next hour, jury selection underway in the Georgia hot car death case. This is a big case. A lot of people have been watching this for a long, long time. Justin Ross Harris charged with murder for leaving his 22-month-old son Cooper to die in a hot car on June 18, 2014, allegedly leaving his son to die. The temperature outside that day in the 90s. But inside the vehicle, it was more like 120 degrees. Harris says it was an accident. Again, this is the very beginning of that trial. Jury selection begins. But a number of potential jurors, they want out today. And when you hear the details of this case from Nick Valencia, you might not blink.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thursday, June 18, 2014. Justin Ross Harris pulls in to a strip mall in Cobb County, Georgia. He exits the car screaming at the sight of his 22-month-old son Cooper Harris dead in the back of the car, still strapped in his car seat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just screamed, what have I done, loudly.

VALENCIA: That day Harris tells investigators he had breakfast with his son Cooper before both get back in the car and drive off. Harris drives a half mile to his job at Home Depot and exits the car to start work, leaving Cooper alone in the car under the blistering southern sun for seven hours. Experts say inside the car, temperatures could have reached 140 degrees. Harris tells police he forgot that his son was in the backseat of his car.

For police, Harris' story of being a forgetful father doesn't add up. Their investigation leads them down a troubling vortex of sex, infidelity and online searches of how to live a child-free life. Prosecutors accuse Harris of being a calculated killer and charge him with murder in the death of his 22-month-old boy. Authorities say Harris sexted several women from his work computer and a 16-year-old minor while Cooper died in the car. Some of the texts are so racy we can't repeat them on air.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He asked her to bend over. He asked, do you like me being a perv. Make me a huge perv, ha, ha. Show me more. Make me a naughty older guy.

VALENCIA: The messages are disturbing, but do they really mean he intended to kill his child? Harris' friends and family say no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just hard for me to imagine that that is the Ross -- the sweet Ross Harris, the sweet little funny boy that -- that we knew.

[12:30:07] VALENCIA: But police say Harris was unhappy in his marriage and that he read four articles on a website forum called Child Free.