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Trump Says It's A Crooked System; Trump States RNC Is Going To Have Big Problem; Cruz Sweeps Colorado Delegates; Trump Campaign On Disenfranchising Republican Voters; Republican Candidates Joined By Families At CNN Town Hall; First Of Three Town Halls Start Tonight; President Obama Defends Clinton Over E-mails; ISIS Targets Sporting Event; Sanders and Clinton Battle; Terrorism Original Plan. Aired 1- 1:30p ET

Aired April 11, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN GUEST HOST: Hello, I'm Jim Sciutto. Wolf Blitzer is on assignment. It is 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 7:00 p.m. in Paris, 9:30 p.m. in Kabul, Afghanistan. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thank you for joining us today.

And we start today with the Republican race for president and the return to the trail of Donald Trump. After a few days off the campaign trail, he came back with a flourish in New York but not before taking a bad beating in Colorado, losing all of that state's delegates to the Senator, Ted Cruz. It was a sore spot for Trump who called the system unfair during the weekend stop in Rochester, New York.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a broke system, folks. This is a broken -- I'm not a fan of Bernie. I couldn't care less. (INAUDIBLE.) I couldn't care less about Bernie. But he wins and he wins like me. I've have won twice as much as Cruz. I've won millions and millions of votes more. People that have never voted are coming out to vote for Trump. I say this to the RNC and I see it to the Republican Party. You're going to have a big problem, folks, because the people, they don't like what's going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: So, here are the numbers that Trump is talking about. He has nearly 2 million more popular votes than his closest competitor and still holds a sizable lead in delegates as well. He hopes to build on that lead with the New York primary next on the schedule. That is April 19th.

Here with me now is our Phil Mattingly. He's in New York. Trump grumbling about basically being outflanked by the Cruz campaign. Phil, you've been out on the campaign trail for a long time here. I mean, is this a result of a lack of political ground game?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it absolutely is, Jim. And it's one -- it's an issue the Trump campaign is starting to work to remedy. Obviously, placing Paul Manafort, the veteran GOP operative, atop kind of the convention and delegate team over the last week. It's been a move made almost entirely because of a recognition of what Ted Cruz has been doing on the ground.

But, Jim, it's really illustrative to look at what the Cruz campaign has done the last couple weeks and what they're planning on doing in the weeks ahead. It's really a dual-pronged approach. First and foremost, keep Donald Trump from reaching that 1,237, the number of delegates he needs to secure the nomination before the Republican convention. That's when you see events like what occurred in Colorado, where the Cruz team had worked for a month to really kind of get their team together to secure as many delegates as they possibly could.

Now, look forward and you're seeing the Cruz team work to get commitments for an open convention so in southern states, like Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, Mississippi and Arkansas. Jim, these were areas where Ted -- where Ted Cruz had a significant ground operation, states that he was expected to do very well in and lost to Donald Trump.

Now, take a look at Kentucky specifically. What we've seen here, another state where Donald Trump won, two counties Kenton and Campbell, have already voted on who their delegates will be. They lean heavily towards Ted Cruz.

So, another state that Ted -- that Donald Trump actually won but you see the Cruz operation working behind the scenes to get delegates that line up with the Cruz campaign. First ballot, most if not all of them, will be voting for Donald Trump.

But should we get to that open convention, you look at these southern states, Jim, and these are states where on the second, third and fourth ballot, Ted Cruz could have a lot of allies.

SCIUTTO: So, Phil, on the campaign trail, you're obviously talking to a lot of voters out there. Does this rallying cry of a rigged primary in Colorado actually -- even though he lost in the delegate count, does it -- does it help him in a way, this idea of us against them, me versus the establishment?

MATTINGLY: In terms of his supporters, absolutely. Jim, if you try and explain this system to anybody -- and it's an arcane system. It's a confusing system. It's a complex one that even a lot of campaign lawyers are still trying to get their heads around right now. It just doesn't look good.

The fact that in Colorado, there were no actual votes. There wasn't a primary. There wasn't a caucus. There were delegates that were selected to go forward. It seems odd. It seems confusing. And I think Donald Trump is using that to his advantage. It's why he's been tweeting about this nonstop. It's why he's been mentioning as is -- at his rallies.

But, Jim, it's important to point out, these are rules state by state that were decided on by state Republican committees. And these have been the types of rules that have been in place -- in place cycle after cycle. So, there's no major change. There's no major effort to try and undercut Donald Trump here. These are just the rules. And, frankly, Ted Cruz's campaign, better than anybody else, has recognized these rules and really tried to take advantage of them over the last couple weeks -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: That's why campaigns hire lawyers. Phil Mattingly, in my hometown of New York. Thanks very much.

I want to get more now on Trump's warnings to the RNC and the campaign's anger over what it calls delegate manipulation by Ted Cruz. Joining me now is Stephen Miller. He is senior adviser to Donald Trump.

So, Steven, to be fair, you know, this Colorado primary was on schedule for a long time as a state convention. It was not -- it's not news that this is the way that delegates were going to be awarded. Why didn't the Trump campaign make a plan to go head to head with Cruz and win those delegates over?

[13:05:09] STEPHEN MILLER, SENIOR ADVISER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, wrong is wrong. Disenfranchising a million Republican voters in the state of Colorado is wrong. A great example of how painful that is is think about it from the perspective of a soldier serving overseas who risked his or her life so that Iraqis could go and vote. And we all remember the purple fingers (ph).

SCIUTTO: Sure.

MILLER: That same soldier coming back to Colorado can't vote in his or her own presidential election?

SCIUTTO: Well -- but that -- listen, again, as Phil was saying, I mean, this has been on the -- it's been on the books for months here. That's an argument that you can have but that's an argument you could have had months ago or to at least help enfranchise that voter get out on the -- you know, get out with the grassroots' organization to win those delegates over. Why didn't the Trump campaign do that ground work itself?

MILLER: Well, the important thing to realize about the reason why these delegates are going for Ted Cruz, in a voter-free state like Colorado, is because Ted Cruz is popular with insiders. I spent a few days in Colorado. Donald Trump is popular with voters and Ted Cruz is popular with insiders.

Think about this remarkable fact. This is really amazing. Ted Cruz has only won two primaries out of his -- outside his home region. So, he won Texas and Oklahoma, two in his home region and only two others primaries in the whole entire country. Ted Cruz doesn't win where people vote.

SCIUTTO: Well, let me ask you this question, because it is becoming a math game here, right? I mean, trying to -- as you know, other candidates trying to keep Trump from reaching that majority by the time the convention comes around and that's certainly not new either. You go back to 2008 on the Democratic side. Obama successfully had a strategy built around hoarding delegates, so to speak, and particularly in those caucus states, and that worked for him. He beat -- he beat the front runner.

As you see this now -- so, these are the facts whether you like them or not. What is the Trump strategy for beating Cruz and others at their own game then, to get to that majority by convention time?

MILLER: Well, we have a few big primary states coming up where people actually can vote. And, frankly, it's unseemly -- and I think it will hurt Cruz how much he's crowing about his delegate gains.

In other words, he's bragging that, oh, Trump won this district. Hundreds of thousands of people supported Trump in this district, but we'll take the delegate. And, oh, nobody voted in Colorado and that's fantastic. Cruz is crowing about voter disenfranchisement is going to cost him millions of votes as we head into big states like California, like New York, like New Jersey.

And so, the message of our campaign about voter franchisement is actually going to help us to get to 1,237.

SCIUTTO: Are you going to get to 1,237 by the convention? Are you confident?

MILLER: I believe that we will. And we are still going to fight for all of the delegates that are not voter decided. But let's just remember that Cruz, as a party insider who supports GOP orthodoxy on trade, on immigration, is obviously going to have an upper hand when it comes to wooing actually party officials.

SCIUTTO: Well, that sounds -- that sounds to me like you're almost doing a little bit of expectations' management there, saying, yes, we're confident but if we don't, here's the reason why.

MILLER: No, I'm just telling the honest truth. I worked in Washington for 10 years and I know why insiders like Ted Cruz -- insiders love our trade deals with China so does Ted Cruz. Insiders love our immigration deals with foreign countries so does Ted Cruz. So, they're going to favor Ted Cruz.

SCIUTTO: Let me -- I'm sure you've seen the punitive front cover -- front page of the "Boston Globe" imaging the first day of a Trump presidency. Well, we'll remind our viewers of that cover here. I wonder if you have a reaction to some of those headlines in there and how it portrays how Donald Trump would govern?

MILLER: Well, in one sense, it's kind of amusing because their big warning, if you actually reduce it to its essence, is beware if Donald Trump is president. We're going to enforce American immigration laws which we're required to do and we're going to enforce the rules of our trade deals which, again, we're required to do but neither of which we actually do. So, in that sense, it's kind of amusing.

But in the more serious level, it demonstrates the cosmopolitan hostility from concerted (ph) journalist, present company excluded, to what Mr. Trump is trying to do on behalf of working class Americans. SCIUTTO: Stephen Miller, thanks very much for taking the time.

MILLER: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Appreciate having you on.

Trump and his family, a reminder to our viewers, will participate in a CNN town hall. That's tomorrow night in New York with Anderson Cooper. Ted Cruz and his wife, Heidi, have their turn on Wednesday night.

But up first, it is Ohio Governor, John Kasich, and his family. That will be tonight at 9:00 p.m. right here on CNN.

Mark Preston is the town hall expert here at CNN. He's also the executive editor for "CNN POLITICS." He joins me now from New York. So, Mark, will we see a different side of the candidates as they come on the air with their families by their sides?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, Jim, I think so. Look, when you decide to run for president, you don't make that decision in a vacuum. You have to sit down with your family. You have to wonder if it's worth the public riggers to delve not only into your life but also your wife's life or your husband's wife and, in some cases, your children's lives.

So, tonight will be interesting actually to have the candidates on stage with their wives. And, in this case, we will have John Kasich's twin daughters as well joining them just to talk a little bit about the process of the decision making to run for president, what their father is like off of the campaign trail. And really opening a window into the candidate's personality that you don't normally see.

[13:10:20] You know, Jim, we know a lot, and certainly our viewers know a lot, about their positions on policy. But what is the candidate like when they're not out on the campaign stump?

SCIUTTO: So, what does each candidate need from these moments? You know, I imagine Ted Cruz needs a little softening of that hard edge. What does John Kasich need to show because his family not as prominent in the campaign so far? What are their goals, one, two, three, for the candidates in the next three nights?

PRESTON: Right. Well, first of all, I think for Governor Kasich, he also has a hard edge from his days as a congressman here in Washington, D.C. Look, for him, for John Kasich, tonight is to help introduce him to voters in the states that are moving forward and really help him make the case that even though he is so far behind in the delegate count, that he can make the case when it gets to a contested convention that he should be the Republican nominee.

Tomorrow night, same thing with Donald Trump, in many ways. He will be surrounded by his children as well as his wife, Melania, really to show Donald Trump in a way that we haven't seen Donald Trump, up to this point. And, as you said, Ted Cruz, as well, seems to have a hard edge. But I have to tell you, I have been around Ted Cruz and his wife, Heidi, and he does soften up a little bit. So, you have to become likable and this is the kind of forum where either a candidate can shine or they can fall. And we'll get to see that tonight and over the next three nights.

SCIUTTO: Yes we all soften up around our wives. Mark Preston, thanks very much.

A reminder, that three-night CNN town hall event begins tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern. Tonight, again, it is John Kasich, his wife, Karen, and their twin teenager daughters. Tomorrow night, it is Donald Trump with his family. Wednesday night, it is Ted and Heidi Cruz. Live at 9:00 p.m. each night only here on CNN.

And coming up, President Obama comes to Hillary Clinton's defense over the investigation of her e-mails.

And, later, an ISIS cell that was targeting one of the largest sporting events in the world. We'll have more on that right after this.

[13:12:19]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:16:27] SCIUTTO: In the Democratic race for president, Hillary Clinton says she can take on Donald Trump while also fending off the challenge from Senator Bernie Sanders for the nomination. Here's what Clinton said at a campaign stop, this is just a few moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That we cannot let Donald Trump's comments, his attacks, his absolutely out of bounds denigration of groups of people from American women being able to make our own decisions to American Muslims. It's dangerous. And people around the world, as well as our country, are hearing this and they're wondering, what's happening in America? So I intend to do everything I can to become the nominee. I'm clearly focused on that. But at the same time, I want to start drawing the starkest distinctions between what I know America stands for, what I believe are not just New York but American values, and what --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That would be easier.

CLINTON: And what Donald trump is standing for. So we're going to just keep going. I think I can both walk and chew gum at the same time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Well, also out on the campaign trail, Bill Clinton defended his wife's qualifications at a campaign stop today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: If you want a president who is experienced enough in national security, diplomacy and making a world with more partners and fewer adversaries to keep the worst bad things from happening and to make some good things happen so that America's recovery, which is real, is not derailed by problems half a world away. You have to have somebody who can do both parts of the job. She can do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: I'm sure you'll recall that last week Senator Bernie Sanders said Hillary Clinton was not qualified to be president. Later he conceded she is. Now, Sanders says it is a question of judgment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And in many respects, she may have the experience to be president of the United States. No one can argue that. But in terms of her judgment, something is clearly lacking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Let's bring in our panel now. CNN political commentators Angela Rye, former executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus, and Matt Lewis, he's a senior contributor for "The Daily Caller," a conservative writer as well.

So, Angela, the gloves were off last week on the Democrats side.

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.

SCIUTTO: For like 24 hours they put the gloves back on but, you know, they're battling again. A little bit of a semantic change there from qualification to judgment. Are we -- you know, what's happening there? Are they going to get rough again?

RYE: I think they will get rough. They've got a debate here on CNN on Thursday and I think that we can expect probably the most heated Democratic debate so far. Why? Because New York sets the ground --

SCIUTTO: Yes.

RYE: The stage for what's to happen in California. All of a sudden -- we were talking about this earlier -- New York has become somewhat of a battleground state for the Democrats and also looking towards the general. You heard Hillary Clinton earlier in this clip where she's talking about, she wants to look ahead. She's focused on what it takes to become the nominee. But she's very clearly pivoted to what it will take to beat Donald Trump.

SCIUTTO: And, repeatedly, you have two home towners there, right?

RYE: That's right.

SCIUTTO: I mean you have Sanders from Brooklyn. RYE: Adopted home state.

SCIUTTO: She's an adopted home state.

RYE: A Brooklyn-born son, they say.

SCIUTTO: But, Matt, with the president's involvement here, you know, he, in effect, came to Hillary Clinton's defense on the e-mail controversy. Let's just play for our viewers a quick clip of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's a carelessness in terms of managing e-mails that she has owned and she recognizes, but I -- but I also think it is important to keep this in perspective. This is somebody who has served her country for four years as secretary of state an did an outstanding job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:20:10] SCIUTTO: Now, I wondered, does that help or hurt her in this controversy?

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it helps her, but I also think that it's problematic. I mean, you know, at one point, President Obama said she never intentionally put Americans in jeopardy.

SCIUTTO: Right.

LEWIS: It's like, well, if you're the secretary of state, it shouldn't just be intentional. Even accidentally putting American lives at stake is problematic. He said that while there's classified information and then there's really classified information, but back in January the inspector general report suggested that actually this information that she was putting at risk was actually a higher level than what you would consider to be top secret.

SCIUTTO: And I --

LEWIS: So it's problematic. And he may be biasing everything by weighing in on it to begin with.

SCIUTTO: Well, that's the question. I know folks in the FBI who don't like to hear pronouncements from on high about ongoing investigations. Is this dangerous territory, do you think, for the Democrats?

RYE: I really don't. I think it's much to do about nothing. For example, of course, you know, Congressman Cummings has endorsed Hillary Clinton now and he is lead Democrat on the special committee on Benghazi, as well as the ranking member on the oversight committee. What does that say? It says that, as expected, there's no there there and they expect for this to wrap up. Mr. Cummings originally said he wasn't planning on endorsing anyone until after the committee had done its work. But the committee has done its work. It's just political at this point. SCIUTTO: Turning briefly, Matt, to the Republicans. You heard we had

Stephen Miller (ph) of the Trump campaign on just a short time ago again crying foul over the Colorado primary, calling it undemocratic, disenfranchising soldiers, et cetera. But, like I said to him, this plan had been on the schedule for months. I mean is this -- is this fair criticism from the Trump campaign.

LEWIS: Well, if I were Trump I would be doing the same thing because he's been outmaneuvered and he's, you know, basically -- Ted Cruz, just like Barack Obama was better at playing the game than Hillary Clinton in 2008, Ted Cruz is better at playing the delegate game than Donald Trump. But, look, we don't have a direct democracy and it's funny to hear a conservative or somebody who's ostensibly a conservative, like Donald Trump, complain about it. This is federalism. These -- the state parties having their unique rules. Does he want a command and control top down primary structure that is imposed by the government?

SCIUTTO: What about states right? Yes, exactly.

LEWIS: Yes.

SCIUTTO: Angela, just on the Democratic side, we don't have time to play the clip now, but Hillary Clinton, in her latest campaign ad focusing on Trump. You know, turning the target from Sanders on to him. Is this early for her to be -- to be doing that?

RYE: I would argue that its late, right? I think that what we have seen one the Republican side of the aisle is that no one really held him accountable until they realized that that thing was out of the gate. And I -- so, for her, and hopefully for her campaign strategist, they realize if they don't start early and often, they'll have a huge problems when the general comes.

SCIUTTO: Do you agree, Matt?

LEWIS: I think she's right.

SCIUTTO: Oh, my gosh.

RYE: Finally.

SCIUTTO: (INAUDIBLE), they agree. Angela Rye and Matt Lewis, thanks very much for joining us.

RYE: Thank you, Jim.

LEWIS: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: The Democratic presidential debate is Thursday night at 9:00 p.m. on CNN from Brooklyn, New York. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders face to face for the first time in more than five weeks now and the last time before that crucial New York primary. That will be only here on CNN.

And coming up next, the Euro 2016 soccer tournament, it's one of the largest sporting events in the world and may have also been the next target for the terror cell blamed for both the Paris and Brussels attacks. We're going to look into that more deeply right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:27:57] SCIUTTO: Prosecutors in Belgium now say the terrorists who carried out the deadly attacks in Belgium last month were initially plotting to hit France again. And CNN has learned that the Euro 2016 soccer championships, which begin there in June this year, were among their targets. But as the terrorists saw how quickly the investigation into last year's attacks in Paris were moving, they switched gears and together turn their target back to Brussels instead.

Sources telling CNN that some of the information on that plot came from a laptop computer recovered from a garbage bin outside the group's bomb factory in Brussels. I want to talk over all of this with CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank.

So, Paul, just to explain to our American viewers who might not be familiar, Euro Cup 2016, I mean this is a Super Bowl-like tournament. Actually bigger, I suppose, because you have so many different venues over the course of weeks. Does it make sense to you that they would go after an event that size?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I think -- I think -- well, clearly, that's what they were planning to do, at least according to Mohamed Abrini, the so-called man in the hat who was captured on Friday. We've learned that he's told investigators that this cell, the cell that carried out the Paris and Brussels attacks, were looking to attack euro 2016 in France. This is a tournament with 16 different nations. It's a huge tournament. I mean short of the World Cup and the Olympics, this is the biggest thing out there.

And, of course, as you know, Jim, this would be striking right at the hard of the European psyche, grabbing headlines around the world. And this very same cell launched three suicide bombings outside of Stade de France in San Denis on the 13th of November as part of those Paris attacks. Well, the very first match in these Euro championships on the 10th of June is in that very same stadium in Paris. So there's a lot of concern moving forward about the threat to this huge tournament.

SCIUTTO: And, of course, the French president was even there at that match when it was attacked on November 13th.

[13:30:01] I want to ask you this because we've talked about this a lot, that the Belgians have gotten a lot of criticism for, well, one, being just simply overwhelmed with the number of suspects there. But, two, not communicating well among themselves.