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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Ryan Rules out Nomination Bid; Senator Defends Nomination Process; Clinton Library Releases Documents. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 12, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I am John Berman, in for Ashleigh Banfield today. This is LEGAL VIEW.

And we do have breaking news out of Capitol Hill. Political intrigue perhaps put to rest. The speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, he's scheduled a speech for just a few hours from now. Aides say the goal of that speech, to rule himself out once and for all as a possible candidate for president. Joining us now to discuss, CNN's senior political reporter Manu Raju. Also with us, CNN political commentator Errol Louis.

Manu, what are you hearing?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: You know, John, the real concern with the speaker's office is that this talk about him possibly running for president had become a major distraction from everything that he's trying to do, namely to keep control of the House for Republicans. He's trying to move aggressively almost to distance themselves from all the infighting that's happening on the campaign trail. And these questions about whether or not he'd be a late entry and run perhaps at a contested convention have been a source of distraction. Even recently when he went to Israel, this was a question that hovered over him in his trip to Israel.

But right now the speaker wants to make it absolutely clear that he has no intention of running. His aides have tried to dispel any sort of chatter that he may run over the last several weeks, even telling reporters that he probably can't win if he were to run. It would only sort of divide the party given the fact that he has done virtually nothing to prepare for a national campaign. And so today he wants to make that crystal clear with this speech outside of the Republican National Committee headquarters and say that he will not be a candidate, no matter what happens at the Republican Convention. The question, John, is whether or not that will stop the chatter from folks who really want him to run because they're concerned about Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.

BERMAN: Well, the problem - the reason that people have been speculating, even after Paul Ryan said he's not interested, it's not going to be him, is because he said similar things about becoming speaker of the House. Let me read you a tweet from Paul Ryan after John Boehner made clear he was stepping down. Paul Ryan tweeted, "I will not be a candidate for speaker. I continue to believe I can best serve the country and this conference as chairman of the Ways and Means." That was about three weeks before he was elected as speaker of the House.

RAJU: Yes.

BERMAN: So today, Manu, do you expect the statement to be more Sherman-esque (ph)? Literally, will he have to come to Sherman (ph) saying, you know, if nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve?

RAJU: Absolutely. I think that's what we can expect. Now when I've asked the speaker's aides and advisers, you know, about that discrepancy, well, you said no to the speakership and he became speaker. But this is much - that was much different. He was able to unite the Republican conference behind his candidacy. He said that he would only run for speaker - the speakership if all factions of the Republican conference got behind him. They say there's virtually no way that would happen now given how divisive of a primary fight this has been so far. They don't expect Donald Trump and Ted Cruz supporters to get behind them. And, plus, Paul Ryan does not seem to actually want to be president either, at least that's what they're trying to let on. And I think that's one reason why they're trying to himself from this and the speakership. There probably will be no unity behind any candidate, even if it were Paul Ryan.

BERMAN: All right, Manu, thanks so much.

Errol Louis, it says something about the state of the campaign, that it is big news when a guy who isn't running in the primaries is announcing that he will not be a candidate at a convention if it is contested, which we don't even know if it is yet. But, you know, it does seems like a moment that it's happening today. Do you think it will have any impact on the race?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it takes away one last hope that perhaps some of the party elders, some party players, who were putting some resources behind Speaker Ryan. I mean let's not let him get too cute about this. The reality is, there was a super PAC that was trying to sort of foment some kind of support for him. He went and gave a speech where he tried to play the role of party elder, but there were like three or four cameras in the room and they came up with something that looked an awful lot like a campaign commercial and he sort of let that happen. As you said, when he was trying to not become speaker, he put out all of these denials until he accepted. And so perhaps this is the first statement in a negotiation.

So I think it is a moment. It is a moment because what he's either doing is slyly trying to advance a candidacy or more likely really taking himself out. The reason could be, in fact, that it's a prize that he doesn't think he can get, or it might be a prize that is not worth having as far as he's concerned. I mean the level of fractiousness within the campaign, the level of division, the fact that the campaign could go all the way up until June and then have a very open, very noisy, very contested convention the following month, is maybe not the kind of scenario that he's looking for. I mean he had almost the opposite scenario in 2012 and in the end it didn't work out for him.

[12:05:11] BERMAN: Make no mistake, though, there were serious whispers here. People with money were talking about this. This was something that people were banding about even if it wasn't realistic. Do you think now there is a sense that it's going to be one of these three guys. It's Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, or John Kasich and now voters and the delegates at the convention know for sure they have to choose from one of those?

LOUIS: Well, I think that's a logical conclusion to reach. On the other hand, there's so much uncertainty and there's so much disruption and there's so much sort of shifting around that's possible. And let's keep in mind, again, Paul Ryan is going to be presiding over this convention. So to the extent that there are rules changes or a decision to do something out of the ordinary, like it or not, he's going to be in the middle of that whether he's a candidate or not.

BERMAN: All right, Errol Louis, thanks so much. I can almost hear the Mitt Romney surge being discussed right now. Now it's going to be Mitt Romney. Thank you so much, Errol.

Also in the race for the White House, Donald Trump, he says this system, this system that Paul Ryan says he's not going to be a part of, is rigged. Donald Trump is telling his supporters they're being ripped off. This after Ted Cruz won a series of victories at state and county Republican Conventions. The latest happened in Colorado where all of its delegates were awarded to Ted Cruz without a voter casting a ballot at a ballot box. So now Trump is using that to fire up his supporters. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's being so much pressure, like in Colorado, which was a total fix. There's so much - the people all wanted to vote. They took away their votes. It's the biggest political story out there. I don't know if you're reading the papers or - it's one of the great political stories. They took away their vote and they gave it to these delegates. And I want to tell you, folks, what they did is really - turned out - I think it's going to come back to haunt them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, as Trump fumes over the nomination process, he did pick up some good news today. He actually won a dozen delegates today. Officials in Missouri declared Donald Trump the official winner of that state's primary. He picks up 12 delegates. It was very, very close. As a result, the state did not make an official delegation. So when we were doing our delegate math, we did not count the 12. Now the state says Donald Trump won and we are including those 12 delegates in that math.

All right, we're joined now by one Republican lawmaker, a guy who knows what happened in Colorado very well, Colorado Senator Cory Gardner joins us right now. Senator Gardner, I want to get to the conventions in Colorado and the

process there in a moment. But first the big news today up on Capitol Hill, where you're standing right now, Speaker Paul Ryan set three hours from now to give a speak where he will rule out conclusively, put to rest any idea that he would put his name in nomination, allow himself to be nominated by the Republican Party to be president. Your reaction?

SEN. CORY GARDNER (R), COLORADO: Well, I don't know how many times Paul Ryan has to rule it out, but he's going to rule it out again today. I think it's simply nonsense the idea that somebody outside of the three people running for this nomination are going to be elected to our nominee at the convention. It's just nonsense. The three - one of the three will be our nominee. And I know there are some who want there to be this through the looking glass moment for Paul Ryan or perhaps others but it's simply not going to happen.

BERMAN: So you don't support Donald Trump. You've come out pretty vocally against Donald Trump. You've said that John Kasich isn't realistic. Does that mean you're supporting Senator Cruz now for the nomination -

GARDNER: Well, what I have said is -

BERMAN: Since you say it's only going to be one of those three, is he the horse you're backing?

GARDNER: Well, what I've said is, any nominee is going to have to earn my support, just like they have to earn the support of the grassroots voters in Colorado and the delegates that we send to the national convention. And so I look forward to having my support earned just like everybody else in this country. But the fact is, somebody like Donald Trump has spent the past weekend in particular, and the past several weeks before, actually backtracking and going backwards in earning the people's support.

BERMAN: But if you say you're not for Trump and Kasich's not realistic, doesn't that mean you're for Cruz? What's the hesitation right there?

GARDNER: Well, again, I look forward to talking to Senator Cruz. I look forward to talking to his team about what matches with my ideas. I said at the convention in Colorado before grassroots that - voters that I believe our nominee needs to be strong on national security, I believe our nominee needs to have a positive vision. I look forward to seeing how that lines up with Senator Cruz. I believe it can. But time will tell as they earn our - as they earn my support, just like they'll have to earn the support of the thousands of delegates who are going to the convention in Ohio.

BERMAN: You've been in the Senate with him now for 18 months. What's the hesitation? What haven't you seen in the Senate that would seal the deal for you to support Senator Cruz?

GARDNER: I don't think there's any hesitation. I'm just like everybody else in this country who's - I supported Marco Rubio. I think it's widely known. But the fact is, I want our nominee to earn my support. And if you look at some in the race right now, like Donald Trump, he's going backwards from that support.

BERMAN: All right, let's talk about the Colorado convention process. Donald Trump, I don't think he liked it one bit. He called the system rigged. Your reaction to that?

GARDNER: Elections are hard work and elections are won by those who showed up - who show up and Ted Cruz showed up in Colorado. The fact is, this is a grassroots process. I stood with thousands of delegates all day at the Colorado convention talking to Kasich delegates, people who were hoping to be Kasich delegates, talking to Trump supporters who were wearing the "make America great again" hat, talked to Cruz supporters. All of them participated in a process that's been around for some shape or form for about a century to choose these delegates to the national convention. Elections are won by those who showed up. Ted Cruz showed up, he gave a great speech and he won. Elections are hard work. This process isn't a coronation. And if Donald Trump wanted a coronation, then perhaps he should be a Democrat.

[12:10:30] BERMAN: Any - Ted Cruz was absolutely organized in Colorado. No question about that. I understand it's well within the rules. I understand this is the way that Colorado has done it. But, senator, your opinion, is it the best way to do it? What's wrong with having a primary? Colorado's a growing state. It's crucial, in fact, in the general election. Why not have a primary or a more open caucus?

GARDNER: Well, 65,000 Coloradans participated in this process beginning with their grassroots precinct caucuses where they're elected to the county assembly, where they were selected to be a delegate. It's a very good - it's a very high honor to be a delegate to our state assembly.

Look, in 2002, a decision was made by the state legislature to save money, to move away from primary, to go to the convention process, like we saw. It's been done. This is the process that I'm very proud of to have won two years ago in 2014 to be elected to the United States Senate.

But for Donald Trump to attack the thousands of people in Colorado who participated in this grassroots process, who drove hundreds of miles, took days away from work and family to participate in a process that they are proud of, nobody complained to me at the delegate. I spoke to - at the convention. No Donald Trump delegate complained to me about the process.

In fact, I heard Steve Miller, Donald Trump's surrogate, talk twice before the convention. He never complained to me about the process. The complaints started when he lost the election. Elections are hard work. Donald Trump didn't put the organization, the effort or the skill into being in Colorado. We're not impressed by flash or celebrity. We want a workhorse to win this race and Donald Trump - excuse me, Donald Trump did not take the nomination. Ted Cruz did out of Colorado.

BERMAN: Senator Gardner, just last question. If Donald Trump does end up as the nominee, would you support him as the nominee?

GARDNER: He's going to have to earn my support. I don't believe he's going to be the nominee, but any nominee is going to have to earn my support, as I've said.

BERMAN: So no guarantee on that. Senator Cory Gardner from Colorado, thank you so much for being with us.

GARDNER: Thank you.

BERMAN: A lot of news today. Appreciate it.

GARDNER: All right, up next, we're going to hear more from the Trump campaign and the Republicans about Trump's claim that the party somehow rigged the system against him. You hear Senator Gardner say that's not the case.

Also, much more on how the big news today or the big announcement or statement or denial from Paul Ryan, how does that change things?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:16:25] BERMAN: All right, the breaking news out of Capitol Hill. House Speaker Paul Ryan just scheduled a speech a short time from now in front of the Republican National Committee headquarters in Washington. What is he going to do? He apparently will rule out the possibility of being a presidential nominee, running somehow at the convention, being selected by the delegates there. He's going to rule it out, put the issue to rest once and for all.

We're going to discuss this now with Scottie Nell Hughes. He's a supporter of Donald Trump and national political commentator for USA Radio Networks.

Scottie, what does this announcement mean for Donald Trump?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, I don't think it means anything for Donald Trump except for the fact - because if you remember, as your correspondent pointed out, Paul Ryan has gone back on his word before where he said that he was not going to run for speaker of the House, and guess what, today he's speaker of the House. And we can sit here and go by the rules as they exist today, but we've been told time and time again that these rules basically become null and void until accepted by the new 2016 RNC rules committee, which will not meet until a week before the convention. So anything is possible. Anything can change. And when you're sitting here and looking at the unity that is not happening amongst the Republican Party, every option's on the table.

BERMAN: So you just don't trust him?

HUGHES: I do not trust Paul Ryan. I think that this is exactly kind of - this ideal situation that he wants. When you have conservative split between Senator Ted Cruz and Donald Trump and there doesn't look like any hope of unifying anytime soon, that's exactly what he wants to come in for, is he wants to be seen as the white knight that he's already been seen as according to the speaker of the - according to the House when he accepted the speaker role. I just do not trust his words at all and I have - and everybody has the background to prove it.

BERMAN: Well, look, I'm all for political intrigue, but what more can the guy do. If he - if he says he's not going to do it, he could come out and say if, you know, if nominated I will not run, if elected I will not serve. That's about all he can do, isn't it?

HUGHES: That's all he can do. So how about if he actually follows through with it this time? That's the problem we have, John, is we don't have trust in what these politicians in Washington, D.C., are saying because their actions usually don't follow through, as with Speaker Paul Ryan. And so, fine, you want to say that right now, great. Then how about this time, if there happens to be a change in the rules committee and the option comes open, how about you just don't throw your name into it and maybe the next go around I might have that trust again.

BERMAN: Let me ask you about a different process, a process to elect the president of the United States, the delegate selection process. Donald Trump says the system is rigged. The Republican National Committee chairman, Reince Priebus, he didn't like that one bit. He went on Twitter overnight and he said, "the rules were set last year. Nothing mysterious. Nothing new. The rules have not changed. The rules are the same. Nothing different." That's actually - that's actually correct, isn't it?

HUGHES: That is very much. And then the RNC, in their defense, has nothing to do with the individual state parties rules. They're all different. And Cory was right, Senator Ted Cruz emerged from there the best politician from the state of Colorado, from their convention this past weekend. You know, Senator Cruz started putting together his delegate game back in January of 2015, before Donald Trump was really even a rumor to run for president. And so you have to question, if all of Senator Cruz's actions have been to be running for president more than necessarily being a good representative as a senator from Texas, but his ground game paid off. He did know the rules in Colorado. He played to them. But you have to wonder if it was such a great process, why do you have so many Coloradoans right now, Republicans, feeling very disenfranchised and like their voices were not heard and their votes were not counted.

BERMAN: Well, if the goal is to win, and he's winning, you know that's what he set out to do right there. I do want to get your reaction to a new poll out here in New York from Time Warner Cable News and (INAUDIBLE) College. It has Donald Trump, the man you support, out in front by a lot here. He's at 60 percent of the votes. The two other candidates, below 20 percent. That would bode well for Donald Trump here to get most, if not all, of the 95 delegates in this state. But even as that looks good, in that same poll he's got some favorability issues. The unfavorability well over 50 percent. Could that - could that be a problem that last beyond New York?

[12:20:26] HUGHES: Well, he's definitely got home state advantage in New York and it also spills over into Pennsylvania, as well as the following primaries, the Yankee primaries that follow. The only hope, this will continue out west, as we look at California and Indiana, where ground games once again come more into play. You know, just because it's unfavorably doesn't mean that it's not voting for. I think these are folks that might like different parts of Mr. Trump, more importantly about maybe some of the words that he says, but they like his actions and they like what he's accomplished already and what he promises for the future. That's most important when people go into the voter booth, especially when you're comparing yourself to whoever the Democrats choose to put at the top of their ticket.

BERMAN: Scottie Nell Hughes, thanks so much for being with us.

HUGHES: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: All right, the big news, Speaker Ryan expected to give his statement. That is coming up just a few hours from now. We will bring that to you live.

And there's much more happening today, as well. Tonight, CNN's town halls continue. Tonight it's the Trump family. That's at 9:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN. Tomorrow night we'll hear from Ted and Heidi Cruz.

Up next, we're going to hear from Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders, battling it out here in New York for every last vote. Just one week to go before the primary. Plus, the Clinton Presidential Library just released hundreds of pages of records and photos featuring, you guessed it, Donald Trump.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:26:24] BERMAN: The Democrats hitting the campaign trail, hitting it hard in New York today ahead of Thursday's CNN debate. Hillary Clinton holding a roundtable for Equal Pay Day, pointing out that bias is part of the reason we see wage gaps between men and women.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Once we do more encouragement, incentivizing, maybe both carrots and sticks, so that companies are more forthcoming, we still have to be willing to address these implicit biases. The research is absolutely conclusive that people, men and women, carry different ideas in our brains, our consciousness, about how to evaluate men's and women's work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Bernie Sanders taking his message of grassroots fundraising to Rochester while he hits Secretary Clinton over her use of super PACs or - of the fact that super PACs are actually spending on her behalf.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: During the last filing period, her largest super PAC reported raising $25 million from special interests, including 15 million from Wall Street. Does anybody seriously believe that you can be an agent of changing if you are taking money from the most powerful special interests in this country? Our job is to stand up to these powerful special interests, not to take their money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: While that's going on, the Bill Clinton Presidential Library has released nearly 500 pages of records. The documents show the Clinton White House had Donald Trump on its mind at times during Donald Trump's first toying with whether or not he should run for president back in 2000. CNN political reporter Jeremy Diamond has been combing through these documents, joins us now live from Little Rock.

Jeremy, you know, the Clintons and the Trumps, they've known each other for a long, long time. What did you find?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, they certainly have. You know, we found several instances that are really interesting in these documents.

First off, it's clear that the possibility of a Trump presidency, a Trump candidacy at least, you know, has dogged White Houses before. The White House was prepared, in October of 1999, preparing President Clinton for the possibility he could get asked about Donald Trump running for president. He was asked - they were preparing for questions about whether Bill Clinton's own scandals had essentially led to a trend of people in the entertainment business, like Donald Trump, considering runs for president. You know, and the responses are essentially advising President Clinton to say, well, that he's confident that the American people will make the right decision and sort out the wheat from the chaff is the quote here.

But it also shows that there was a long standing relationship between the Clintons and Donald Trump. President Clinton's personal secretary considered in 1996 sending a birthday letter to Donald Trump. They ultimately decided not to just a few days later. It's unclear why. But it does definitely show that, you know, there was a relationship there, enough for Clinton's personal secretary to consider sending this note.

Of course, a lot has changed since then. Now we have Donald Trump, you know, talking about President Clinton as one of the great women abusers of all time, talking about how Hillary Clinton is a, quote, "enabler" of Bill Clinton's sex scandals. And so - and so that's where we stand today.

[12:29:55] Clearly a big shift then. But the White House was certainly, in President Clinton's administration, certainly aware of Donald Trump, certainly looking at him as he considered this presidential run in 1999. That was the first time that he announced an exploratory committee, ultimately deciding not to officially run for president until, well, where we stand today.