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Donald Trump Blames "Rigged" Delegate System for Loss in Colorado; Ted Cruz Takes Aim at Trump Over Delegate Fight; Clinton, Sanders Pick Up New Endorsements; Interview with Stephanie Schrock; Aired 10-10:30a ET
Aired April 13, 2016 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:00:58] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.
Donald Trump loves smash mouth politics, especially when he's doing the smashing, but even his family admits his harsh tone sometimes makes them a bit squeamish. That's one of the takeaways from CNN's town hall event when Trump's wife and children joined him on stage. And one attack they seemingly assault Trump's assault on Republican leadership and its awarding all of the Colorado delegates to rival Ted Cruz without a single vote being cast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Colorado thing was very, very unfair and I thought Louisiana was very unfair. I won Louisiana. I won it easily.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: You won the popular vote. He got more delegates.
TRUMP: I won the popular vote. And because of all these shenanigans that goes on --
COOPER: But you call them shenanigans, those are the rules. And didn't you know them?
D. TRUMP: You know why -- I know the rules very well. But I know that it's stacked against me by the establishment. I fully understand it. We had people out there and they weren't heard. And then in fact today when it was announced -- the numbers were announced, they put out something on Twitter saying, we stopped Trump essentially. We stopped Trump. That was put out by the party in Colorado. The point is, it was stacked against us.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: You don't think the RNC wants you to get the nomination?
D. TRUMP: No, I don't think so. I really don't. I mean, I --
COOPER: And you think they are actively working against you?
D. TRUMP: I don't know. I mean, I don't see it. It's not like it's -- I have 15 miles of proof. But certainly they should want to have a vote of the people of Colorado. The people of -- I would have won.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: OK. So that's just one of the topics. CNN's Michelle Kosinski is here with more. Good morning.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it was interesting how this started out. I mean, this is kind of a touchy, feely view that's venue for each candidates. Their families are there but they really started out with him doing these attacks on Republican leadership. I think the most heard phrase we heard during the town hall was stacked against me. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
D. TRUMP: Republican Party in Colorado wanted Cruz or maybe they wanted somebody other than Trump. I don't think anybody really wants Cruz. Why would they want him? There's no reason to want him. But the Republican Party wanted somebody other than Trump. And you know the funny thing, I am the only one that is going to beat Hillary Clinton.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOSINSKI: Yes. So the attacks -- you know, saying that he's really the victim here and by doing that, it also kind of -- you know, it's a way for him to make himself even more formidable and dangerous, like they're all out to get me and kind of boosting up --
COSTELLO: Even though he's winning at the moment. He's far ahead in the delegate count, right?
KOSINSKI: He mentioned that, too.
COSTELLO: Yes?
KOSINSKI: Sure to stress that.
COSTELLO: But as you said, it was sort of a touchy, feely event and we got to meet some of Trump's children that we don't see. I think one of the most interesting moments came when he explained his Twitter habit.
KOSINSKI: Yes. It was funny how this came up also because, you know, this is a town hall where the family is present and people can ask any question of anyone from the audience. So you're not going to get the hard-edged questions necessarily that journalists always bring out, and this was not about immigration or nuclear politics. This is kind of the more fun things or the family dynamics.
It was funny how this came up because, you know, they were asked, well, your young son Barron, who wasn't present, do you monitor his social media, are you worried about bullying, but then Anderson Cooper turned it around on Trump's kids and said, well, are you guys monitoring Donald Trump' tweets? Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: You know, are there some days you wake up and you look at Twitter and you think, really?
ERIC TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S SON: It kind of makes him the person he is, honestly. It's so great to not see these sound bites, the traditional politician sound bites that you read too often. He's so authentic. He writes the tweets himself. He doesn't have a team of hundreds of hundreds of people behind him and I think that actually makes him the great candidate that he is. So actually they're not vetted.
COOPER: And what about the re-tweets?
D. TRUMP: The re-tweets.
COOPER: Yes, the re-tweets that get you in trouble.
D. TRUMP: The tweets are fine. The re-tweets sometimes get a little -- I really enjoy doing it but it's really an -- you see what's going on and there is some genius there. I mean, you will get -- you will read some of the stuff, there is genius there. You have to find the right genius. But it is a powerful thing. I mean --
COOPER: As president, though --
D. TRUMP: No, I wouldn't be doing it.
COOPER: You wouldn't?
D. TRUMP: Or I would do it very little. It's different. But right now if I'm fighting one of my opponents, I can tweet out things or my feelings.
[10:05:03] COOPER: Do you ever want to say to him, put the mobile device down?
MELANIA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S WIFE: I did.
COOPER: At 2:00 a.m. and you're still tweeting.
M. TRUMP: Anderson, if he would only listen. I did many times. And I just say, OK, do whatever you want. He's an adult.
COOPER: Right.
M. TRUMP: He knows the consequences.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOSINSKI: You know, for the most part they laugh off the tweets but they also use the controversial one to say, well, this is just the kind of guy he is. It's Donald Trump being Donald Trump. And that means he's genuine.
We learned something, too, about how these tweets come into existence. Where do they come from? How do they get out there into the world? And in Trump's own words, he said that he simply shouts them out to the young ladies in his office. And then there you have it.
COSTELLO: And then they write down -- they write down his shouts verbatim?
KOSINSKI: Maybe that's the problem. Maybe he's shouting but not always meaning to tweet but didn't sound like that from what he said last night.
COSTELLO: Re-tweets admitting -- he seemed to admit he was wrong about re-tweeting.
KOSINSKI: Yes. Somewhat. I mean, yes. I think that was maybe --
COSTELLO: As close as he's going to get, right?
KOSINSKI: I think so.
COSTELLO: Michelle Kosinski, thanks so much.
Trump's main Republican rival, Ted Cruz, honed his debating skills in college with the art of needling. It's something he appears to be perfecting on the campaign trail. Listen to Senator Cruz mock Trump's anger over his delegate sweep in Colorado.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald is a very sore loser. He doesn't handle losing well. And he throws a fit. He is crying and screaming and yelling and he insults people and he curses at people and he attacks people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: CNN's Phil Mattingly joins us with more on that.
Good morning, Phil.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Needling Donald Trump in public while behind the scenes an extensive operation has been going state-by-state, helping Ted Cruz secure delegates that Donald Trump thought he was in position to win. It's enough to drive Donald Trump crazy, we've certainly seen his reaction over the last couple of days.
But one thing that's going to change over the next week or two, Carol, is this. Donald Trump is now in friendly territory. The New York primary is up next on April 19th. 95 delegates at stake. And Carol, if you look at the polling, the most recent coming out of Quinnipiac, Donald Trump in great position. 55 percent leaning towards Donald Trump. John Kasich and Ted Cruz combined are less than that. And that puts him in a great position to potentially sweep all 95 delegates in the state.
And, Carol, the map only gets better for him in the weeks ahead. Pennsylvania, Maryland, Rhode Island, Delaware, these are all areas where Donald Trump's team thinks they can swing the momentum away from Ted Cruz.
One thing they have been keeping an eye on is the possibility for an open convention. One person they won't have to be worried about, Paul Ryan. He has officially said he will not accept any nomination in Cleveland and open the door to a few people who might. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Does mean we could see someone like Scott Walker, Marco Rubio or Jeb Bush --
REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: I'm not going to foreclose anybody's option. You have to be one of the candidates running for president. Who ran for president. It's going to be a new person, I can tell you that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It's not going to be you?
RYAN: And it's not going to be me.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So to be very clear, you're not running for president.
RYAN: Yes. That's to be very clear. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Despite the dreams of a lot of Republican establishment figures and even more donors Paul Ryan is officially ruling himself out. He's expected to tell his Republican conference that same thing this morning, Carol. But what he's saying is this. The metrics should be if you ran in the primary you should be in play. That opens the door to a lot more people than the three that are currently running.
If you talk to the Trump campaign, their goal, period, is not to even reach that point, reach that magic 1237 number before the convention in Cleveland. That means they are going to have a lot of work to do. But as I said, Carol, a good map going forward. Ted Cruz, John Kasich, their only goal right now, steal delegates, keep him from that the 1237 number -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right. Phil Mattingly, thank you so much.
I want to bring our viewers out to Brooklyn for just a minute because Senator Bernie Sanders is expected to announce a surprise endorsement which I don't think is going to be a surprise because you can see Transport Workers Union back there and I bet that's where the endorsement is coming from.
When Bernie Sanders speaks out, of course we'll take you back to Brooklyn.
Let's talk about the Republican race right now. I want to bring in our political panel. CNN political commentator and Donald Trump supporter Jeffrey Lord and the former congressman from Missouri and Governor Kasich supporter Tom Coleman.
Welcome to both of you.
TOM COLEMAN (R), FORMER MISSOURI CONGRESSMAN: Thank you.
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Happy almost Friday, Carol.
COSTELLO: I know. One day closer anyway. I'm glad about that.
Jeffrey, Donald Trump said he hadn't thought about whether he would ask Reince Priebus to step down if he doesn't get the nomination at the convention. And you know Reince Priebus fired back at Mr. Trump for saying the system was rigged. He said basically deal with it, those are the rules. Do you think there is a next step for Donald Trump?
LORD: Well, I think there is possibly. I'm not sure what that would be. But you know, Carol, you had on a guest a few minutes ago who was I believe a former Colorado Republican chairman. It was very instructive to listen to him. He said that the rules of the convention for Colorado or the rules for Colorado had been the same since 1912.
[10:10:06] Well, I hate to say this to the chairman -- the former chairman from Colorado, but the Republican convention of 1912 was notorious for being accused of rigging the system and theft by president -- former President Theodore Roosevelt. It was so bad he instructed his delegates finally not to vote -- to withhold all of their votes and they bolted the convention, formed a third party and then went on to lose to Woodrow Wilson in the fall.
But the convention itself was notorious so for somebody from Colorado to say, well, gee, we've had the same rules since 1912 only further emphasizes Donald Trump's point, whether he realizes it or not.
COSTELLO: Well, Tom, the other interesting thing from that interview which took place in the 9:00 Eastern hour of NEWSROOM, this former state chair said he did wish that Colorado had a more traditional primary system, although he said that Donald Trump didn't have a point. So I was confused by which way he wanted it. So I'll ask you that question. Do you wish that Colorado had more of a traditional system like in holding a primary or a caucus and allowing voters to vote?
COLEMAN: Is that for me?
COSTELLO: Yes, that's for you, Tom.
COLEMAN: You know, it really is up to the states. I will tell you this. Virginia in the past has had the same kind of convention to select delegates that we might see in Colorado. This year, they changed it so that there was a direct primary where people could come in and vote. So it's really up to the states. I would like to correct one thing that Mr. Trump said, though, in that
first clip where he said he was the only one that could beat Hillary. With all due respects, all the polls show that John Kasich is the only one that can beat Hillary in the general election so I think the record ought to be set straight there.
COSTELLO: Well, Jeffrey, that is true. Many polls say John Kasich would beat Hillary Clinton. More so than Donald Trump. A lot of polls show Trump losing to Hillary Clinton.
LORD: Yes. I would say with respect to Governor Kasich, he's exactly the kind of candidate that Mitt Romney and John McCain and all the way back to Thomas C. Dewey, where moderate Republicans suggest only their guy can win and then of course they get out there and they get trounced.
Donald Trump is, I think, very much a Reaganesque kind of character, a candidate rather, and in Ronald Reagan's day, I remember this -- I may have mentioned this before, the famous December 1979 Gallup poll that showed Jimmy Carter beating Ronald Reagan by 30 point or more and of course the feeling was President Ford -- former President Ford said that Ronald Reagan can't never be elected president, he's too extreme, he's too conservative, and of course we know that turned out not to be true.
COSTELLO: Eventually he did. So I want to talk --
COLEMAN: Carol --
COSTELLO: I want to talk about Marco Rubio for just a second, if we can, because Marco Rubio endorsed Ted Cruz earlier. I think he did it yesterday. And this is what he had to say. I want to let our viewers hear it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: I've been pretty clear that I want the Republican nominee to be a conservative. And in my view at this moment of the candidates that are still actively campaigning, the only one that fits that criteria is Ted Cruz.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: OK. So it's not exactly a resounding endorsement, Tom, but I do wonder, why do you think that Marco Rubio did not endorse John Kasich?
COLEMAN: It's really hard to know why people do endorsements and --
COSTELLO: I'm sorry --
COLEMAN: One thing for sure this year that endorsements really matter a lot in most cases. Obviously, if Rubio is going to go with his delegates to the convention, you would like to have those delegates switch to you. But as far as John kasich being out of the mold or in the mold, as Jeff said, the fact is that John kasich 40 years ago went to the Kansas City convention in support of Ronald Reagan against Gerald Ford, they lost. They didn't whine about it.
John Kasich, I served with for 10 years. If there's ever been a conservative Budget Committee chairman, it was John kasich. And he's also showing that in the state of Ohio. So I don't know if you're trying to, you know, tar him with some sort of moderate position. The fact is, he's a conservative but he's a commonsense conservative.
COSTELLO: I'm going to interrupt you for just a second, Tom, because I want to take our viewers back to Brooklyn so Bernie Sanders can announce his endorsement. Let's listen.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Grateful to have the support of this fantastic union. Thank you so much.
As John said, everything that I believe and that is, at a time when our middle class is disappearing, when we are seeing almost all new income and wealth going to the top 1 percent, when we have the most unequal distribution of wealth and income of almost any major country on earth, John is right. It is too late for the same old, same old establishment politics. We've got to stand together, take on the big money and trusts, and make it clear, that our government works for all of us, not just the 1 percent.
[10:15:08] And when we talk about the needs of this country, yes, together we're going to raise the minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour so that nobody works 40 hours lives in poverty. Yes, we are going to fight to do exactly what your union has done and bring pay equity for women workers all over this country who now get paid 79 cents on the dollar. Yes, together we are going to end these disastrous trade agreements that have cost us millions of good-paying jobs. And by the way, have led toward a race for the bottom where corporations say, you don't want to take a cut on your health care or your wages, we're going to China.
We're going to create trade policies that work for American workers, not just the CEOs of large corporations. And, yes, as John pointed out, we -- although in this room that you don't have a great and growing middle class unless you have a great and growing trade union movement. And it is no secret that there have been fierce attacks against the trade union movement for the last number of decades. And in fact, you can argue that it is the trade unions of today that are the last lines of defense against a vicious corporate agenda that is working hard to destroy the middle class.
And that is why I believe that we need legislation that makes it easier for workers to join unions, not harder. And we have introduced legislation that's pretty simple. It says that if you are in a bargaining unit and 50 percent of the workers in that unit plus one sign a card saying they want to belong to a union, they get a union.
And if an employer -- if the employer refuses to negotiate a first contract in a timely manner, that employer will be heavily penalized. And then we come to the issue of the work that the people in this room do. It is no secret to anybody in America, whether you're in the state of Vermont or whether you're in New York City, that our infrastructure is crumbling and that means not just our roads which are crumbling, and that means not just our roads, but bridges.
I was in Flint, Michigan, several months ago and what I saw there was unspeakable in terms of a water system poisoning its children but it's not just water systems. It's waste water plants but it is levees, it is dams, but it is also mass transportation and our rail system. And that is why I have introduced legislation and will implement as president, a $1 trillion investment to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure.
COSTELLO: All right. We're going to -- we're going to step away from this Bernie Sanders. But as you heard, the Transit Union endorsed Bernie Sanders' candidacy for the president of the United States. The Democratic nominee. I'll be back with much more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:23:01] COSTELLO: All right. Senator Bernie Sanders picking up another endorsement, this time from the New York Transit Union. It announced its support for Sanders just moments ago. This as the "New York Daily News" back Hillary Clinton who, they say, is super prepared -- is a super prepared warrior realist that's cauldron tested.
All of this as the candidates gear up for tomorrow's CNN debate. CNN's Chris Frates is here right now to tell us more. Good morning.
CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: So Hillary Clinton gets the big endorsement from the -- I don't know how big the endorsement is from "The Daily News." You tell me.
FRATES: Well, it was a big, I mean, particularly because Bernie Sanders kind of botched his interview with "The Daily News." The Clinton people made a lot of hay out of that. In fact they even sent out that interview to everyone on their e-mail list in its entirety to show Bernie Sanders fumbling around trying to answer those questions about core issues to his campaign. So this was a good day for Hillary Clinton to get that endorsement, not unexpected, of course.
COSTELLO: Good day for Hillary Clinton. I thought it's a pretty good day for Bernie Sanders.
FRATES: Right. So he comes --
COSTELLO: He's picking up this union endorsement and also another one.
FRATES: Exactly. So he picks up the Transit Union, 64,000 members and retired members here in New York City. So that's very good for him, particularly as he tries to do well in New York City. Hillary Clinton does very well here among the minority community so he's trying to, you know, get a little bit of an edge with that union. And he also picked up a senator from Oregon, Senator Murkley. He's the first sitting senator, first colleague of Bernie Sanders, to endorse him. Hillary Clinton, of course, has most of the Democratic senators already locked down -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Yes. Should we hear a little bit about what Bernie Sanders said at that big union endorsement moments ago?
FRATES: Yes. Let's take a listen.
COSTELLO: OK. Let's listen. OK.
(LAUGHTER)
COSTELLO: I apologize for that. It's probably my fault. But I know that you have some from President Bill Clinton talking about his wife.
FRATES: We do because, you know, the other thing that's been interesting to watch is Hillary Clinton kind of stepping away from the campaign trail in New York yesterday, going to Florida to fund raise because she's feeling very confident. She's leading Bernie Sanders here by double-digits and so she stepped away but she kept her campaigner-in-chief on the campaign trail for her yesterday. Let's hear what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[10:25:08] BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: The only thing I really disliked about this campaign is whenever somebody endorses Hillary, they get blasted on the e-mail, on the Internet for being part of the establishment. It's a pretty big establishment now. I mean, it includes the Congressional Black Caucus, Planned Parenthood, the Human Rights Campaign, the League of Conservation Voters, several Hispanic organization, most of the Irish. Right? And -- I mean, I could go on and on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRATES: So there you have Bill Clinton kind of firing back against this idea that Hillary Clinton is part of the establishment. And they're not really all that concerned about these attacks or, frankly, the attacks we've heard from Bernie Sanders all on her credibility, her judgment or whether she's qualified. They don't think that hurts them with Democrats. They are a little worried, though, Carol, that it gives Republicans the ammunition they need in the fall to shoot at Hillary Clinton by using Bernie Sanders' own words. So we have Hillary Clinton already kind of starting to pivot to the general election -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right. Chris Frates, thanks for stopping by. I appreciate it.
As Chris mentioned, Bill Clinton spoke at Emily's List in last night, an organization whose goal is to get women elected to public office.
Joining me now is the president of EMILY's List and Hillary Clinton supporter, Stephanie Schrock. She's also the former campaign adviser for Howard Dean's 2004 presidential campaign.
Welcome, Stephanie. STEPHANIE SCHROCK, PRESIDENT, EMILY'S LIST: Great. Thank you for
having me this morning.
COSTELLO: That's for being here. Bill Clinton said he's stick of people portraying Hillary Clinton as an establishment candidate. We heard that there. But Hillary Clinton has been around a long time. How can they not?
SCHROCK: Well, Hillary Clinton has truly been a champion for women and families really since her first job at the Children's Defense Fund. And so we are so proud to be supporting her at EMILY's list because we really do see a person who is immensely qualified, who has great plans to move this country forward and knows how to get those plans done. She also happens to be a woman and we actually think that's pretty cool. And we would like to see a woman president in the United States of America.
COSTELLO: Bernie Sanders, he's called Mrs. Clinton unqualified, lacking in judgment and a friend of big banks. Some of those things have stopped Hillary Clinton and I suspect those things will be brought up in tomorrow night's debate. How should Hillary Clinton respond to get rid of some of the baggage that she carries?
SCHROCK Well, what I'm hoping to see in the debate tomorrow night is a continuation of a discussion about issues to move this country forward. I have been so proud to be a Democrat this year. When we look on the Republican side and see these debates and just the --
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: Really? Because we've heard things like liar come out of the mouths of qualified for Democratic candidates.
SCHROCK: Well --
COSTELLO: Not qualified for president.
SCHROCK: In the last week, last couple of weeks we're seeing from Senator Sanders a real shift in the language and it's disappointing and I hope that he'll return to the focus of issues and to walk away from the insults that we've been seeing in the last week because Democrats deserve better.
COSTELLO: Well, Hillary Clinton also accused him of not doing his homework and I believe she called him a liar.
SCHROCK: Well, as I said, you know, Senator Sanders has really taken a turn in this campaign and we've got to really focus on the issues, Carol. The Democrats have been so good at talking about what we need to do to move this country forward to deal with the gender wage gap. And yet yesterday on Equal Pay Day across the country, Senator Sanders uses it as an opportunity to say she has a credibility gap?
I mean, this is not the time to do this. We need to look forward. There's too much at stake and we have to go up against these Republicans who really want to tear down this country and build a lot of walls at it.
COSTELLO: Do you worry that some of the -- some of the attack lines that candidates are using will be used against whoever the Democratic nominee ends up to be by the Republicans?
SCHROCK: Well, this is something that the Republicans have been doing for 25 years. This has been 25 years of propaganda against Hillary Clinton because they've always known that she a force to be reckoned with and someone that they've never really wanted to run against. Unfortunately, Senator Sanders is cashing in on some of that Republican rhetoric. But it's something that she stood up against for decades and I have no doubt that she'll be able to stand up against it this fall.
COSTELLO: All right. Stephanie Schrock from EMILY's List, thank you so much for joining me this morning.
SCHROCK: Thank you.
COSTELLO: Tomorrow night the fighting between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders move to the debate stage. It's their first face-to- face debate in more than five weeks. Wolf Blitzer is the moderator. 9:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
