Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
CNN Obtains "Proof Of Life" Of Some Chibok Girls; Trump's Feud With Republican Party Escalates; Trump: Party Rules Are "Stacked Against Me"; Train Controller Arrested In Deadly German Train Crash; On Frontline Of The Fight Against Boko Haram; Taliban, Al Qaeda, And ISIS Active In Afghanistan. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired April 13, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(HEADLINES)
HANNA VAUGHAN JONES, CNN GUEST HOST: Hello. I am Hannah Vaughn Jones sitting in for Hala Gorani. We are live from CNN London and this is THE
WORLD RIGHT NOW.
On the eve of the second anniversary, we're going to get to a story that grips Nigeria and then the rest of the world. When the militant group,
Boko Haram, kidnapped more than 270 girls from their school in Chibok, it sparked a global outcry and #bringbackourgirls went viral globally.
Now in an exclusive report, CNN senior international correspondent, Nima Elbagir, producer, Stephanie Basari (ph) and the videographer, Sebastian
Kenops (ph) have obtained a video that shows the girls might still be alive.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lined up against a yellow wall, 15 girls only their faces showing, and off camera
voice ask each girl what is your name.
Is that the name that your parents recognize? Where were you taken from the voice asked? The school and the date they say is the 25th of December
2015.
This video was obtained by CNN to a person close to the negotiation to get these girls released. For the parents, it's finally a glimmer of hope
these girls are still alive.
Two years ago, we met Mary (inaudible) on our visit to Chibok after the abduction of their daughters and more than 200 other girls. We asked them
if they recognize any of the girls in the video.
They lean closer and another girl is identified. One by one they name all 15 girls. One mother, Yana, realizes that her daughter is not there.
The off camera voice asking the questions is familiar to CNN as that of Boko Haram's spokesman, (inaudible). A source close to the negotiations
between Boko Haram and the Nigerian government says that the video was provided by the terror group as a show of good faith.
Nigeria's information minister told CNN they have received the video, but are still reviewing it.
LAI MOHAMMED, NIGERIAN INFORMATION MINISTER: We studied the video and followed the questions were asked in a very controlled environment. Then
it's a big concern that after two years in captivity the girls in the video were under no stress whatsoever. There's been literally no transformation
to the appearance.
ELBAGIR (on camera): Is the government negotiating with Boko Haram for the release of these girls?
MOHAMMED: There are only talks. We cannot share and many of these investigations are -- cannot be disclosed openly because they also are
endanger the negotiations.
ELBAGIR (voice-over): We took the video to a classmate of the Chibok girls. She has been at home with family the day the other girls were
kidnapped. For her safety, we're not showing her face or using her name. She told us that no doubt these are some of her kidnapped classmates.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I am reminded how we used to play together and do chores and our homework.
ELBAGIR: She says seeing her friends again will likely give her nightmares.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Sometimes if I hear news about them I have bad dreams and I wake up crying.
[15:05:00]ELBAGIR: The video ends with a girl addressing the camera with a message to the Nigerian government, we are all well, she says pointedly,
perhaps suggesting girls not seen in this video.
She then delivers what sounds like a scripted plea urging the Nigerian government to fulfill unspecified promises. For the mothers of these girls
rapidly becoming women far from home, the video is overwhelming. They say they just want someone to bring their daughters home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: While the mothers wait have been long and arduous. Boko Haram wreaked havoc on the Chibok boarding school on April 14th, 2014. Two weeks
later, Nigerians protested throughout the country against the government's failure to find the girls.
By May, the #bringbackourgirls has been tweeted over 1 million times by people around the globe and in April of last year, Muhammadu Buhari won
Nigeria's presidential election and vowed to curb Boko Haram's violence of nearly 300 abducted girls and only a handful has been rescued so far.
I am joined now Nima Elbagir who is in Nigeria for us. Nima, extraordinary reporting there. The harrowing experience of the mothers clear for us all
to see in your report.
But aside from the obvious distressing emotions that you saw from the mothers, is it overall a sense of hope that some of these girls can see the
daughters are alive or is it a fear of what these girls may have been through over the course of the two years?
ELBAGIR: It almost felt to us talking to them that the relief gave them permission to really let go in the way that you saw them there. Even if
mother that did not see her daughter even she said to us that as painful as it was, the sense that those 15 girls were alive, that that gave her hope.
She said as she left that I knew then watching that video that my girl is also alive. One of the most difficult things we heard was the mothers
saying that they wanted with every single fiber to reach into the laptop and snatch their girls home.
It was so hard for them, but at the same time they told us that it was finally a sense of hope that perhaps the girls would be coming home. It's
unimaginable to know that your child is far from home.
Not only far from home but to have in sense of under what circumstances you can be reunited. So to know through what we had learn that there is a
process as the Nigerian information minister acknowledged to us.
There's a process going on between the people who are believed to hold these girls and the Nigerian government. That was a real sense of solace
to them.
JONES: Nima, just standby for us if you will. The Nigerian government has obviously come under a lot of scrutiny for its handling of the situation.
Earlier on "AMANPOUR," CNN's Michael Holmes spoke with one Nigerian senator from the north of Nigeria where Boko Haram is based.
He's been involved in repeated efforts to try to negotiate with the group. I just want to show our viewers what he said to CNN about this video that
you and your team has obtained.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHEHU SANI, NIGERIAN SENATOR: It's credible. It concerns the very fact that the girls are alive and there's hope that they will get back home some
way. It also sends a clear message that those who were thinking that there was no abduction.
That there is actually an abduction that happened two years ago. Negotiations at this stage has been frozen and the military campaign is
emphasized by the government.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: That's the Nigerian senator speaking to CNN earlier on. Nima, from your perspective, where is the government effort right now to try to get
these girls home?
ELBAGIR: Well, as we understand it, the government has gone through quite a long process of aborted efforts where they say that they felt very
stunned that people have come forward, who genuinely did not represent a direct lines to the Boko Haram leadership and the group that are holding
these girls.
That was something that we saw with the aborted negotiations during the term of former president, Goodluck Jonathan, and we saw with the previous
videos that the Nigerian information minister told us they felt hadn't been credible.
But they are continuing down this avenue of conversation and clearly, if this is a video that as we understand it and as stated in the video was
filmed in December of 2015.
[15:10:07]Our sources tell us it was passed on in January. They are still in a process of conversation then it means that as much as they're trying
to be cautious, of course, no one wants to give false hope.
But they do it appears believed that this video is credible and they do appear that it's an avenue of negotiations that is worth continuing it for
all of these months.
The fact that those 15 girls are only the girls that we see. That also tallies with what we've seen in previous, more credible mediation efforts.
That Boko Haram is so aware that because they have lost all these territory, the girls are really the only really valuable bargain chip that
they have.
So they are unlikely to release them all in one go and as in previous mediation efforts where they've offered them in blocks, this very much
tallies with that. They are showing 15 to the world now to try to stretch out for as long as they can and get as much out of it as they can -- Hanna.
JONES: Nima, great to talk to you. Nima Elbagir live for us, thank you. I want to get more on this story now and joining me is Obiageli Ezekwesili,
a former minister of education in Nigeria and a co-founder of Transparency International. Joins me live also from (inaudible) in Nigeria via Skype.
Thank you so much for joining us on the program. I understand you have a chance to take a look at this exclusive footage that CNN has gained showing
some of these girls around 15 of them, first of all, your reaction to this video?
OBIAGELI EZEKWESILI, CO-FOUNDER, TRANSPARENCY INTERNATIONAL: It's quiet -- it's -- you can see I am (inaudible) because you finally get to see a video
like this and it's saying that we can keep on hoping. Someday that these girls will be located and be rescued.
JONES: Apologies for interrupting you there. But two years on since the girls first went missing and do you feel that anything, any progress has
been made and that the government has done enough to try to bring them home?
EZEKWESILI: You know because you were not privy to what it is that government may have done or not done, it always takes some evidence of
result and some evidence of effort that can be articulated in a way that does not give away too much for anyone who is concerned about an abducted
victim and to actually appreciate what's done.
Unfortunately, we would not have any of that. That kind of evidence has not been available and when we met with the president on the 14th of
January, we raised issues around some of these kinds of leads that we are hearing.
We were hearing quite a lot that had to do with the availability of a video of this kind and we thought that every lead was an important when you have
219 of them in the hands of terrorists, every lead becomes an important lead that you would have to exhaust.
And we have raised that point during that meeting. It's quit shocking to finally watch this video and to say we probably were not wrong in asking
that every lead be followed.
JONES: There have been reports and rumors of what may happened to all of these girls in the last two years. Reports that they may have been sold as
sex slaves and married off and injured and harmed and raped. What do you think happened to them and where do you think they might all be now?
EZEKWESILI: Whatsoever I say would be just speculation. It's not based on any evidence and so I am very careful to make the statements. However, we
know that these girls are not at home. If they're with Boko Haram as we can clearly see over the two years that we have been calling to them, then
it means that they have been subjected to all manner of atrocities.
We can imagine what kind of psychological trauma these girls have been through. So as far as I would, you know, I would beg to imagine some of
these girls may have sustained physical injury or emotional assault or even sexual assault.
Whatever it is, I speak in the language of one of the mothers that said, however my daughter is right now, bring her back to me because she is my
baby. I think that's what we all owe the parents of our girls and the girls whose lives can be transformed nonetheless.
[15:15:10]JONES: Now, I am interested on your views on some of the reports that have been emerging over the last couple of days as well that the
families of these young girls and the communities in particular.
They're now fearful of some of them coming home and fearful of what they may have been through and fearful that they may have been brainwashed or
forced being returned as Boko Haram operatives, if you like, how do you even begin to combat that sense of fear that is right within many of these
villages across the country?
EZEKWESILI: It's a real fear. This is just the kind of almost -- how do you call it? It's going to be (inaudible). You're going to have a sense
of mixed emotions. You're going to have a fear. You're going to have the relief.
You're going to have the anticipation, and you're going to have the pain that would be such a mix of emotions coming from parents and the
communities when these girls eventually return.
I think that the most important thing is to have a very well developed system of rehabilitation, reintegration, psycho, analytical and psycho
social report.
It's going to take a whole village, a village that includes the whole world for these girls to begin to build them back into the people that it can be.
Hey, I believe in power of redemption. I believe in the power of grace and the fact that these girls can get, obtained the height (inaudible)
initially taught to attend by going to school. We owe them that.
When people say that some of them have been married, I say to them, none of the parents gave up their daughters in marriage to anyone. The girls went
to school. It's our responsibility to insure that they get that knowledge ultimately.
JONES: Obiageli Ezekwesili, it's been wonderful to speak to you on the program. Thank you so much for your time this evening. Thank you.
Well, coming up the softer side of Donald Trump, the combative Republican presidential candidate takes on a very different tone when his family joins
him at a CNN town hall.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONES: Welcome back. Now to the race for the White House, Donald Trump's feud with his own Republican Party is erupting into a full blown war. At a
CNN town hall, he escalated accusations that the GOP is conspiring to deny him the nomination. But as Michelle Kosinski reports now Trump also showed
his softer side when his family took the stage.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[15:20:03]ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, "AC 360": You don't think the RNC wants you to get the nomination?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, I don't think so --
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Republican frontrunner, Donald Trump calling out the Republican National Committee during CNN's
town hall Tuesday night accusing them of conspiring to keep him from clinching the GOP nomination by denying him delegates.
TRUMP: I won Louisiana and easily. So --
COOPER: What were the poplar votes?
TRUMP: Yes, and because of all of the shenanigans that goes on.
COOPER: No, those are the rules.
TRUMP: I know the rules very well, but I know that it's stacked against me and by the establishment.
KOSINSKI: Trump alleging the Republican Party is, quote, "One percent controlled by the RNC" and that rules were changed to try to stop him.
TRUMP: They changed the rules a number of months ago. The people --
TRUMP: Well, it's not that very long ago.
COOPER: But you had a lot of time to prepare.
TRUMP: They saw how I was doing and they did not like it.
KOSINSKI: The Trump family later joining the candidate on stage. Trump's daughters are taking on the critics who say their father is disrespectful
to women.
IVANKA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S DAUGHTER: He also taught me that there wasn't anything that I couldn't do. I don't think that's a message a father would
relay to a daughter who didn't believe had the potential to accomplish, exactly what her brothers could.
KOSINSKI: Both pointing to their upbringing as evidence of an equal opportunity father and business mogul.
TIFFANY TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S DAUGTHER: My father since I have been a little girl has inspired me and had so much faith in me to be the best
person I can be and the best woman I can be.
KOSINSKI: Trump admitting that when it comes to debates, his family sometimes wishes he would lighten up.
TRUMP: They're also saying be nicer on the debates. I said, wait a minute, they're coming at me from all these different angles so how can I
be nice? But Melania would say be nicer in the debates. I said I can't do that. I have to win first.
KOSINSKI: Donald Trump Jr. agrees.
DONALD TRUMP JR., DONALD TRUMP'S SON: Everyone talks about that at tone, but there also comes a time where you actually have to put the hammer down,
right. There comes a time where, you know, being nice and trying to do all of this stuff when people are laughing at your face, you have to actually
fight back. That's what is so important about what he does.
KOSINSKI: Trump's wife, Melania, pushing her husband to act more presidential.
COOPER: How would you like him to be different?
MELANIA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S WIFE: To use nice language.
COOPER: Better language?
MELANIA TRUMP: Better language. Not all of the time. Sometimes I agree with it.
COOPER: Somebody yelled out something at one of his rallies and you were upset with that?
MELANIA TRUMP: Yes, I was thinking just don't repeat it because next day then the press would talk. It's a word and appropriate word, and that was
correct.
KOSINSKI: On changing his tone, Trump says he can switch it up any time.
DONALD TRUMP: It's easier to do it. It's easier to do it than the way I behave right now.
COOPER: So why not?
DONALD TRUMP: Because I have two more people I have to take out.
KOSINSKI: But when it comes to the retweeting that spark Trump's recent war of wives last month with Ted Cruz, Trump says yes, it's the retweets
that usually get him in hot water, and that's it's all his own doing.
DONALD TRUMP: During the evenings after 7:00 or so, I will always do it by myself.
COOPER: Melania, do you ever want to say to him put the mobile device down. It's 2:00 a.m. and you're still tweeting.
MELANIA TRUMP: He does not listen. I did it many times. I just say do whatever you want. He is an adult. He knows the consequences.
KOSINSKI: It's the special bonds they say they all have with their father that trumps it all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is just always has so much love for us and his whole family. An amazing guy and my best friend maybe in the entire world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: Let's bring in CNN's Phil Mattingly for more on this. He is live in New York, which is, of course, the next crucial battleground, a primary
coming up there. So how did Team Trump fair there? Did you think that he brought in any fresh supports or just shoring up the existing fan base that
he's got?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the existing fan base is shore up as it's going to be. No question about that. They will not leave
him for anything. I think last night you saw with John Kasich two nights ago, Ted Cruz tonight, this is a real opportunity for people to get a
better sense of the candidate off the trail.
The families do bring a lot to the table. I've covered John Kasich many times where he is in a much better mood when his wife is out than he is
when she is not. I think what this allows to do is kind of get more of a 360 view of the candidate.
Obviously Donald Trump's family is very loyal to him. His kids actually play a large role in his campaign, and you got a good view of that last
night -- Hanna.
JONES: And of course, as the ongoing (inaudible) between Donald Trump and his campaign and the Republican Party as well. He is starting to paint
himself and he is painting himself as the victim in some grand injustice here. Just explain what this is all about.
MATTINGLY: Look the reality -- so what Donald Trump is referring to is a couple of contests right now where Ted Cruz is simply out maneuvered him.
He has used his grassroots operation.
He's used his understanding of the rules, which are admittedly complicated, arcane, and somewhat bazaar depending on which state you are in. He's used
them to defeat Donald Trump over and over again.
[15:25:03]Again, this is all about delegates. The big number is 1,237. That's how many delegates Donald Trump needs to secure the Republican
nomination before the convention.
Each time Ted Cruz outmaneuvers him, he's only grabbing 10, 15, 20 delegates, but those delegates might keep Donald Trump for that number.
What Donald Trump specifically referring to here is in Colorado the state had no preference vote. They basically elected their delegates straight
up.
These rules have been in place, Hanna, for nine months. Donald Trump's team just simply wasn't prepared for it. With that said, this is a very
good message for the Trump campaign and one that tracks with the narrative he has been pushing pretty much for the entirety of his campaign.
Don't expect him to back off any time soon. As a matter of fact, I have been talking to a number of Republican National Committee sources that
expect this to only escalate in the weeks ahead -- Hanna.
JONES: Great to talk to you. Phil Mattingly there for us in New York. Thank you.
As Phil was alluding to, it will be Ted Cruz's turn on Thursday morning at 2:00 a.m. in London. He will be joined by his wife, Heidi at his CNN town
hall.
And on Thursday, do not miss the Democratic presidential debate as Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders face off. That's live from New York. It
happens at 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time that's 2:00 p.m. London time only on CNN.
German officials have made an arrest after a train collision earlier this year that killed 12 people. Two commuter trains crashed head on while
traveling at a high speed on a single track stretched southeast of Munich.
Our Fred Pleitgen tells us what the investigators have now learned.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the authorities in Germany say that the dispatcher for that region of the
railway has now admitted that while he is on duty he was playing a video game on his smart phone.
Now, they say that the fact that he was on his phone during his duty and playing that game lead to him being distracted and that in turn lead to a
chain of events, which in effect caused these two trains to crash.
Now according to the public prosecutor, they believe that because he was distracted first of all, he pushed the wrong keys in his dispatcher's unit
that lead to these two trains getting on the same track and going directly at each other.
He said finally or they say finally when he noticed that these two trains were on the wrong track, that he then tried to send an emergency signal to
the driver.
But because he was so distracted, he pressed the wrong keys and therefore the drivers did not get the emergency signal and that in affect is what
caused the two trains to crash.
Now according to the public prosecutor, the dispatcher himself has admitted that yes, he was on his phone and playing an online game, but apparently he
says that it did not distract him from his duties.
Certainly the investigation here is ongoing and he has now been charged with manslaughter due to negligence with severe battery due to negligence
as well, and certainly he could receive quite a strong penalty if indeed it is found that if he was on the phone and playing a major role in the these
two trains crashing.
Now, initially the authorities had said that 11 people were immediately killed in this train crash, but just on Wednesday, the German authorities
came forward and said an additional person has now succumbed to the injuries suffered as a result of the train crash that have happened in
February and therefore, 12 people are now known to have been killed. Fred Pleitgen, CNN, London.
JONES: Still ahead on the show, the story of the Chibok schoolgirls has gripped the world's attention through the power of social media. We'll
speak to one of the people who is instrumental in spreading the "Bring back our girls" campaign.
Also coming up, al Qaeda is back. U.S. officials are trying to get a handle on who controls what in Afghanistan. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:31:18]
JONES: CNN has obtained a video that shows some of the Chibok girls may still be alive. They were kidnapped by the militant group, Boko Haram, in
Nigeria two years ago. A Nigerian senator from the region where Boko Haram operates says the video is credible.
CNN has learned that Russian fighter jets got extremely close to a U.S. Destroyer in the Baltic Sea twice this week. This is incredible footage
the U.S. Navy has just released. A source says a third over flight at a more acceptable happened on Sunday. Earlier, a Russian intelligence
gathering ship had been shadowing the Destroyer.
Spanish police have detained a Frenchman with possible links to recent terror attacks. The man has been named as (inaudible). Police believe he
supplied weapons for the attack at a Jewish supermarket in Paris in January of last year.
Forty five Taiwanese citizen have been forcibly deported from Kenya to Mainland China. The deportations took place after the Taiwanese workers
were acquitted in a phone and internet broad scheme. The incident highlights the growing resentment between Taiwan and the Beijing rules
Peoples Republic of China of the so-called one China policy.
Many of the girls kidnapped by Boko Haram are raped and treated as slaves. They are also increasingly used as suicide bombers. We talked about the
situation in Nigeria, but the group is spreading fear across the region.
David McKenzie travelled to Northern Cameroon and found many young girls there are now viewed with suspicion.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Crossing into Nigeria on foot with Cameroonian soldiers headed to a remote outpost
overlooking the fight against ISIS affiliated, Boko Haram, the world's deadliest terrorist group. The soldiers said their forward operating
positions on the mountain come under frequent attack.
(on camera): Boko Haram fighters are based in these villages in the valley, but the trouble is that positions like this can be ineffective
against an increasingly unconventional fight.
CHUNDA BLANDE, CAMEROONIAN ARMY: (Inaudible).
MCKENZIE (voice-over): So Boko Haram still slips passed the soldiers into villages like this one. They go to the church and kidnap the girls. And
further from the front, in cities like (inaudible), they use the abducted girls to kill.
(on camera): Young women came into this market pretending to sell wares to these vendors. The explosions so extreme that it blew off the roof. Ten
people were killed and new reports says that increasingly girls and young women are being used in the attacks.
(voice-over): The UNICEF members show attacks have increased tenfold with Cameroon targeted the most. Now the market is often empty. (Inaudible)
witnessed the last attack.
Even if they escape abduction, young girls like (inaudible) suffer. Both of her parents were shot by Boko Haram. More than a million children like
her have been displaced by this war.
[15:35:03]To protect their school on the edge of the red zone, vigilante teams patrol and setting up the checkpoints armed with rudimentary weapons.
They check every stranger to stop terror attacks especially girls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible).
MCKENZIE: It's a society turned on its head, girls should be protected. Here in the far north of Cameroon, they are feared. David McKenzie, CNN,
Cameroon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: When the Chibok schoolgirls were abducted, the Nigerian government's failure to rescue prompted a global campaign on social media.
Celebrities including Nobel Peace prize winner, Malala, and the U.S. First Lady Michelle have posed with a sign saying #bringbackourgirls.
I'm joined now by one guest who was instrumental to spreading that hashtag. Ramaa Mosley, is the leader of the "Bring Back Our Girls" campaign in the
United States. Thank you so much for joining us on the program, Ramaa.
I believe that you had a chance to take a look at the exclusive video that CNN got a hold of showing some of the Chibok schoolgirls. Your reaction to
that footage first, please.
RAMAA MOSLEY, LEADER, U.S. #BRINGBACKOURGIRLS CAMPAIGN: Well, it took my breath away. It was heart breaking to watch the girls and to know that we
cannot reach our arms out and pull them out of this danger. It was heart breaking to see the parent's reaction and I could only imagine my own if I
were to see my child.
JONES: How did you get involved in this campaign, the "Bring back our girls" campaign?
MOSELY: On April 23rd, I heard Oby Ezekwesili speaking out on a small radio show and I heard of the kidnappings and I was stunned and heartbroken
and started to look at (inaudible) Nigerian and helping with the search and realized that it was not going to be helpful for my family if I left.
And so I look at what I could do here. I decided to just start a social media march and to echo the words that Oby was saying, which was bring back
our girls. I started tweeting this to celebrities and to government officials.
And I asked all my friends at Facebook to change their profile pic to #bringbackourgirls. I just diligently worked on this day in and day out
and eventually people started to join in, in my community.
I was able to start a Facebook page that brought all of the information that was not being spread right now at that point on the news to a place
where people could find it. Eventually the news came and started telling the story.
JONES: Well, it's been the most extraordinary social media campaign. Two years on, though, we are now at the eve of the two-year anniversary since
the girls were kidnapped first. Do you look back on the last two years with a sense of achievement or of despair that they haven't come home?
MOSLEY: I don't think that anyone can look at the situation and feel the achievement. I think I feel extreme despair and I put myself in the
situation of these parents. I think of them every day, what it must be like.
The trauma that they are experiencing. I do think that this is an example of the power of one voice starting in Nigeria and making a call out to the
world and it being amplified to millions.
And that this is an example of how, you know, socializing this message that Nigerian school girls matter to the world is a chance to make a difference.
It matters to all of us.
Because when a girl is educated, they're more likely to go on and educate their children to stop the systematic process of poverty and to really end
terrorism. So education of one girl can change an entire village.
JONES: And Ramaa, your organization has spent some time with the families of the Chibok girls. Today you published a piece with letters from some of
the mothers addressed to their daughters. We just want to read some of them out to our viewers.
First of all, Rebecca wrote to her daughter, Sarah, she said that I wanted you to be a doctor and in fact we have nicknamed our other daughter doctor
because of out you. My hope is that I will see you here on earth again. But if I do not, I know you're in heaven.
Some beautiful words there and filled with hope and love for these young girls, who, of course, if they do go back to their mothers, they maybe
mothers themselves.
The fear must be among the communities that if the girls come back, they're not going to be the young girls that left them. They are going to be young
women who have been through a harrowing ordeal.
MOSLEY: Yes, there's incredible trauma that's been experienced by these girls and by the families not just in losing their daughters but in also
being displaced.
[15:40:08]You have understand that they have no livelihood, no way of making money. The government has not been supporting psycho traumatic
health. What they're experiencing is really harrowing.
I just want to say that, you know, what they want to do is not stigmatize these girls. These girls are victims as are their families and they are
heroes. They're heroes because they went to school even knowing the danger they went to school.
They're the bravest people and Boko Haram are sissies to put it lightly and the fact that they would target young girls is just a show of how powerful
a young girl can be. My heart goes out to these families.
My colleague and I helped to bring some of the parents there to speak and write the letters and those photographs were taken approximate by her. I
think if anyone looks at them, you can see how incredibly touching they are.
JONES: Yes, certainly are. Ramaa, just one last question. What do you think of the critics that say that the reason that these girls have not
been rescued at this stage is possibly because the case has been so prominent?
The fact that the Nigerian government is stuck between a rock and a hard place. The fact that if they do try to rescue them and it doesn't work,
then Boko Haram could reap revenge on the girls themselves. And the government could have effectively a massacre and a bloodshed on its own
hands?
MOSLEY: Well, it's a very delicate situations and I am not a kidnapping specialist, but really what should have happened is within the first three
days when the parents said the girls were kidnapped, the government should have gone in and rescued them. They could have done it then.
So now two years later, we're in a very delicate situation. That said, we want those girls to be rescued. We know it's possible. We know that they
are in negotiations and we want to see those negotiations reached to a positive end.
Which is that the girls are returned home and that they're able to get them back in school and that the communities are able to rally around them and
pay tribute to what they've experience and help them move forward.
JONES: Ramaa Mosley, thank you very much for speaking to us on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW this evening. Thank you very much live in --
MOSLEY: It's my pleasure.
JONES: Well, CNN is going to stick with the story asking the tough questions about just what happened to the Chibok girls and where the
efforts to rescue them stands two years on.
So join us for the full coverage on Thursday here and on CNN.com. It's the two-year anniversary of the girl's abduction. There are a number of
special features on our website. That's all right here on CNN.
This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Army defectors and al Qaeda resurgent, the Taliban and now ISIS. Extremist forces are regaining ground in
Afghanistan. We will have the very latest. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:45:06]
JONES: Thousands of lives lost, billions of dollars invested. The U.S. laid it all on the effort to drive al Qaeda out of Afghanistan. Now a U.S.
military officer and a top Afghan official tells CNN al Qaeda is making a comeback. Nick Paton Walsh reports from Kabul.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Remember why the United States came to Afghanistan, well, al Qaeda were
back and fighting, a big threat finding safe haven here according to Afghanistan's defense chief.
Even the U.S. officials here admit there's not a lot they don't know and there could be hundreds of al Qaeda core members here.
MOHAMMED MASOOM STANEKZAI, ACTING AFGHAN DEFENSE MINISTER: They are really very active. They are working (inaudible) organizing themselves and
preparing themselves (inaudible). They are working behind other networks again giving them the support, experience they had in different places.
They are not talking too much. They are not making too many statements. It is a big threat.
WALSH: A big threat they say because the Taliban who was said to have regretted harboring Bin Laden have again decided to get close to al Qaeda.
STANEKZAI: The big cover is Taliban because they're enabling al Qaeda and the ISIL --
WALSH (on camera): The phrase renewed partnership is what John Campbell used, the U.S. commander here.
STANEKZAI: Because as you know they need the fighters, the support, the experience and the recruitment from other places. This is why that
(inaudible).
WALSH (voice-over): (Inaudible) were raised by a 30-square mile camp found unobliterated by Afghan and U.S. forces in a remote part of Kandahar late
last year revealing al Qaeda's true strength to Afghan and U.S. officials.
MAJOR GENERAL JEFF BUCHANAN, U.S. DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF, RESOLUTE SUPPORT: It's sophisticated ties back into al Qaeda and a subset that's called al
Qaeda in the Indian subcontinent to find them in Afghanistan also causes quite a bit of concern. If you go back, there were a lot of intel
estimates that say that within Afghanistan, al Qaeda probably has 50 to 100 operators.
But there's one camp and we found more than 150. I think there is. There's not thousands of them, but certainly in remote parts of
Afghanistan, there are al Qaeda leaders that were concern about and what they are capable of doing.
WALSH (on camera): They are plotting still attacks against the west?
BUCHANAN: Absolutely. That's their core concern. They have made those announcements and never backed off of them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: So al Qaeda making a resurgence, renewing a partnership with the Taliban who are themselves gaining ground. Then add ISIS to that complex
battlefield.
Here to break it down for us is CNN's international diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson. So many factions at play here in country. You've got the
Taliban, ISIS, and al Qaeda as well, and of course, government forces as well. Just explain as things stand right now, who controls what?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, ISIS have the least territory. They're the smallest in number and they are the newest on
the scene. They are battling with the Taliban. The Taliban have a much greater influence rather than the areas that they control.
But we've seen them now spread from the sort of east of the country bordering Pakistan. They have harbor of safe haven in Pakistan indeed.
There are elements who still live across the water in Pakistan.
So they are sort of the strongest along the eastern side of the country, but they wrap around the north east for them going to the town of Konduz
(ph) late last year and also further south, it sort sweep and it's sort across south of the country through Kandehar through Helmand (inaudible)
and out even toward (inaudible) in the west.
JONES: Looking specifically at the Taliban and al Qaeda for example, what are the similarities? What are the things that binds them together? Are
they ideological, religious? Where are the differences as well?
ROBERTSON: When you talk about the Taliban and al Qaeda, there is ideological and there is definitely a tactical alliance going on right now.
At an ideological level, they both see themselves as the jihadist hard line Islamic fighters.
But where they differ from ISIS, ISIS kind of wants it all now. They're young kids. Their objective is to take over the whole world and racing
over it and it's more successfully in Iraq and Syria.
JONES: It's not smart?
ROBERTSON: It's not smart because they're bringing down a huge amount of fire power on and now that that's happening, they are turning their
attention and attacking outside. When it comes to Afghanistan, it's sort of understand the Taliban and al Qaeda alliance.
There's the historic element to it. The Taliban hosted Osama Bin Laden back when they controlled the country. There's also a strategic part of
that for al Qaeda right now. It's a very important.
[15:50:08]JONES: Of course, this is all going to be playing out in Washington as well. They're going to be looking closely at this. It was
just last week that we saw U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry arriving on a surprise visit in Kabul.
America has plugged billions into this country and war. What are they going to do now? Is what's happening on the ground going to change their
course of action in terms of a troop draw down?
ROBERTSON: Sure. When you look back at Iraq, the United States received a huge amount of criticism for pulling out of there too quickly. So they are
more cautious on Afghanistan.
Indeed we go back a couple of years, they decided to slow down their troop draw down, which was basically down about to 5,500 troops by the end of
2014, and they decided to keep it at roughly 10,000 troops until the end of this year.
Now they're facing the same question again. Are the Afghan security forces ready to take on the job by themselves? If the answer is no that they
can't secure country, the evidence points in that direction even with 10,000troops, the question is, how can you begin to draw down?
You can't wait for a new president to come and to make that the decision because military commanders need to do that now. I do want to get on to
the al Qaeda Taliban thing because there are several reasons why al Qaeda is coming in.
One is that they are being forced out of safe havens inside Pakistan. Another is they are desperate to create a new branch, al Qaeda in the
Indian subcontinent in India and Bangladesh.
And this lying low while ISIS spends themselves and fights west, lying low and try to scatter the way right now will allow them to grow and
regenerate. This have been decimated at a leadership level.
JONES: Fascinating stuff, Nic Robertson, thank you very much for updating us on the situation there in Afghanistan.
Coming up on the show, it's a good-bye Kobe. The basketball legend is preparing for his last NBA game ever in Los Angeles tonight. Stay with us
for more on that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONES: Welcome back. It is time to bid farewell to a basketball legend. After 20 years, Kobe Bryant, is preparing to take to the floor as an NBA
player for the final time. The 37-year-old has played his entire career with the Los Angeles Lakers winning the five championships.
In a matter of hours, the Lakers take on Utah Jazz, a match that will surely be the hottest ticket in town.
To France now, an astonishing find in an unlikely place, a couple discovered what's believed to be an original painting by Caravaggio in
their attic. The work is already lifted as a national treasure. But as Jim Bittermann tells us not everyone is convinced it's authentic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's probably every home owners dream to be ravaging around in the attic and find a placeless work
of art. That's essentially what a still unidentified couple claims happened at their house near the French city of Talooz (ph).
They're discovery, what some believed to be a lost work by the Italian resonance master, Caravaggio. It depicts a graphic scene in which biblical
heroin, Judith, beheads a Syrian general and is similar in subject matter and style to a Caravaggio already hanging in a Roman (inaudible).
[15:55:05]The art expert hired by the homeowners is convinced the painting is genuine.
ERIC TURQUIN, ART EXPERT: We know that (inaudible) is Caravaggio. We know that was a great picture in its time, which was of this subject and which
was seen by other painters and third, the execution, the masterly execution and some -- you know, a painter has a ticks. This is correct.
A painter is like us. He has ticks and you have all of them. Many of them enough to be sure that this is the hand and this is the writing of this
great artist.
BITTERMANN: Some experts are not ready to say the masterpiece is real, but the French government is playing it cautious by declaring the painting a
national treasure and slapping an export ban on the canvas for the next 30 months while it's examined further.
If it is a genuine Caravaggio, some in the art world say that it could be worth up to $130 million, which makes for some strong arguments about its
authencity.
(on camera): While the painting could be real, there's yet no public accounting of how it found the way to France nor why it remained
undiscovered for a period that the owner said it was on for 150 years.
Still few question of quality of the workmanship involved just the identity of who did the work. Jim Bittermann, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: And finally, Harry Hodini (ph) may no longer be the world's most escape artist. Yes, (inaudible) the octopus, he escaped from his tank, an
aquarium in New Zealand. The aquarium believed that he squeezed out of a gap at the top of the tank and slid across and then out to sea. The
aquarium says that he must be a little bit wiser than they thought. Where there's a will there's a way.
This has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Thanks so much for watching. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
