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Attacks Between Democratic Rivals Intensifies Ahead of New York Debate;Trump Calling for Protest Against GOP Bosses; Cruz Likens Trump Campaign to Union Thuggery. Aired 9-9:30a ET
Aired April 14, 2016 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:02] PEREIRA: That's the "Good Stuff" right there. All right. Time for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello, live from Brooklyn. Looking good, love.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: It's so gorgeous out here, Michaela. You're going to have to join me later for some lunch.
PEREIRA: I'd love to.
COSTELLO: OK. I'll be waiting for you. You have a great day.
NEWSROOM starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are a lot of people here tonight.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am so proud at what's happening here in the Bronx, but it can be even better if we work together.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The bosses and the establishment took all of the power away from the voters, so the voters never got to vote.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald and his team, they're acting like union boss thugs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: And good morning from the Brooklyn Navy Yard, the site of tonight's CNN Democratic debate. I'm Carol Costello. Thanks for joining me this morning and what a show we have on tap. Getting ready to rumble in Brooklyn just 12 hours from now.
Just 12 hours form now Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders will take to the stage and grapple in their last debate before Tuesday's all important primary in New York.
CNN crews have been scrambling to construct this massive stage and the stakes loom even larger. Both campaigns sharpening their attacks and firing up their supporters. Sanders electrified a reported crowd, a record crowd in Washington Square Park. Clinton throws her own bombs in the Bronx. The one-time New York senator looking to stop Sanders' recent surge of momentum.
And on the Republican side, things getting even nastier. Donald Trump ratchets up his attacks on his own party. Ted Cruz accusing Trump staffers of being thugs? And John Kasich takes it all in, hoping for a duel implosion.
Let's begin with tonight's debate, though, the Democratic debate and CNN's Joe Johns. He has more on that this morning.
Good morning, Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Big city, big stage. This is where it all happens tonight at a critical time for both of these candidates. Hillary Clinton has been leading in the polls in New York by double digits for weeks. Her campaign this morning trying to tamp down expectations that that's going translate into a double digit win in the primary. But if you want to see how well Bernie Sanders is doing in terms of support here in New York, all you have to do is look no further than that huge rally last night.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLINTON: I am so glad to be back in the Bronx.
JOHNS (voice-over): Rivals Hillary Clinton and Senator Bernie Sanders both hosting dueling New York rallies ahead of tonight's CNN Democratic presidential debate.
Sanders revving up a massive crowd, estimated by organizers to be above 27,000 in Washington Square Park.
Sanders receiving a rock star welcome with celebrities before he aggressively went after Secretary Clinton.
SANDERS: Our differences with Secretary Clinton go beyond how we raise money. It goes to an issue which the media doesn't cover. That is our disastrous trade policies which are costing us millions of jobs.
JOHNS: Clinton making the case to voters in the Bronx, urging them to back her over Sanders.
CLINTON: I was honored to be your senator for eight years and if you will give me the honor of your vote on Tuesday, we will continue to make life better.
JOHNS: And keeping her attacks on the Republican hopefuls.
CLINTON: One of them denigrates New York values. Mr. Trump wants to set Americans against each other. He wants to build walls. I want us to build bridges.
JOHNS: Tonight's high stakes debate comes as the heated war words between Sanders and Clinton intensifies.
SANDERS: I have my doubts about what kind of president she would make.
JOHNS: And accusations from the Sanders campaign that the primary process is weighted in favor of Clinton.
JANE SANDERS, BERNIE SANDERS' WIFE: It's not a Democratic way to carry out an election.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: And in terms of delegate totals to the Democratic national convention, and this includes super delegates, Hillary Clinton is leading Bernie Sanders by 1790 delegates to 1113 for Sanders. In terms of raw numbers she's gotten about 2.5 million more votes than Sanders.
Carol, back to you.
COSTELLO: All right. Joe Johns reporting live from inside the debate hall. Thanks, Joe Johns.
One of the biggest applause lines in the Bernie Sanders rally came not from Bernie Sanders but from a surrogate.
[09:05:02] It drew a raucous roar of approval last night but on the morning after it's raising a lot of eyebrows. Listen to this, I guess, PG-rated comment from Dr. Paul Song as he addressed the crowd.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. PAUL SONG, BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTER: I agree with Secretary Clinton that Medicare for all will never happen if we have a president who never aspires for something greater than the status quo. Medicare for all will never happen if we continue to elect corporate Democratic whores who are beholden to big pharma and the private insurance industry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: So you heard him say that "corporate Democratic whores." Song is married to CNN's Lisa Ling. He quickly apologized via tweet. And minutes ago Bernie Sanders himself chimed in, saying, quote, "Dr. Song's comment was inappropriate and insensitive. There is no room for language like that in our political discourse."
So let's talk about that and more with Bakari Sellers, a Clinton supporter, Sally Kohn, a "Daily Beast" columnist, CNN commentator, an undecided Democrat, and Chris Smith, a long-time New Yorker and contributing editor for "New York" magazine.
Welcome to all of you.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thanks.
SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Nice to be here.
CHRIS SMITH, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: Welcome to New York.
COSTELLO: It's so beautiful.
KOHN: Right?
COSTELLO: My gosh. And you --
(CROSSTALK)
KOHN: I live in Brooklyn.
SELLERS: I love it. I'm a southerner but I'm feeling the welcome to Brooklyn violence.
COSTELLO: Me too. It's beautiful. Well, let's start with that comment from Dr. Song. OK, Sally. You're an undecided kind of Democrat.
KOHN: I mean, I'm changing as of the moment. I'm still leaning Bernie with my heart.
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: He apologized but let's say --
KOHN: Yes. Yes.
COSTELLO: But let's face it. That's really what Bernie Sanders is calling Hillary Clinton, isn't it? I mean, not with the language.
KOHN: Look. Not with the language. And that's the key thing. Look, he did the right thing. He said it was wrong. It was wrong. End of discussion, you know, and I have to say it is perpetually troubling to me that the media writ large and all of us sort of, you know, verbal up to talk about Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton when there is some kind of personal attack or below-the-belt kind of thing and the rest of the 99.9 percent of the time when they are having an incredibly civil, policy-driven debate between --
COSTELLO: Really? 99.9 percent of the time they're having a civil conversation?
KOHN: I mean, if you look at the entirety of the election I do. And especially if you contrast it with the Republican Party where there's kind of gutter, snipey comment has been more par for the course. This is an exception. It's rare. And the substance of what they are talking about is important. He is trying to hold her accountable as a status quo Democrat. I think that is accurate and appropriate. Let's talk about that.
SELLERS: But even Dr. Song, I mean, even Dr. Song was incorrect in trying to push forward Sally's assertion here because it lacks historical context because the fact of the matter is, I said it earlier, it bears repeating is that the person who is fighting for single-payer healthcare in 1992-'93 was Hillary Clinton. Before you had Obamacare you had Hillarycare. The reason that we have the CHIPS program where six million kids in this country get health insurance is because of Hillary Clinton.
So, I mean, if you want to say these things about her and perpetuate these caricatures and narratives which just flatly deny historical context, then that is not good for the discourse. And then to kind of tear that and add this language, for a long period of time Democrats had the moral high ground when it came to political discourse but not with language like that.
SMITH: Well, that's going to be really interesting to see tonight. I mean, Bernie Sanders is behind. And he's run up a lot of enthusiasm. Big crowds. He's stayed substantive by and large. But tonight how harsh is he willing to get? I mean, he's behind.
COSTELLO: But doesn't he have to make a big splash because he has to do well in New York to keep his momentum going?
SMITH: Sure. And how he does that isn't by talking about Goldman Sachs and corporations and the backing of Hillary Clinton, you know, has had, or is it by personal attacks? I don't think it is personal attacks. The words are out there now. You know whether he disavows them or not. Obviously it is circulating. Hillary, you know, is probably going to try to ramp up her enthusiasm by speaking about Trump, by speaking about the Republicans. You know she needs to increase her popular vote margin here as much as possible in addition to the delegates.
COSTELLO: OK. Let's talk about the big crowd at the Bernie Sanders rally. Right? It was --
KOHN: It was huge.
COSTELLO: It was huge. It was huge. But I was just wondering, you know, a lot of them were from the Occupy Wall Street Movement, right? A lot of them were from NYU. And you just wonder if -- you know, it's great you have 27,000 people. That's fabulous, don't get me wrong. But you got to move those people to the voting booth.
So, A, I wonder how many were actually registered to vote, how many actually were from New York, right? And I don't know the answer to those things.
SMITH: Sure, I'll be corny and earnest and hope they all vote. I mean, that would be a good thing.
SELLERS: I'm a good soul as well. I mean, that would be a good thing for the process.
SMITH: And three, you know, he attracted an almost as large, just as enthusiastic crowd in the Bronx a week or so ago without all the bells and the whistles. Without --
[09:10:01] COSTELLO: With that Weekend Vampire appearance. SMITH: Sure.
SELLERS: Well, I mean, the fact of the matter is that there is this, you know, kind of false comparison that people like to make. Because people say oh my god, you know, Barack Obama had 24,000 people in Washington Park in 2008.
COSTELLO: That's right. Bernie Sanders beat him.
SELLERS: But Barack Obama got beat in New York by Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton still got 56 percent of the vote. Bernie Sanders also won the vote tallies or vote records in Georgia. He also won the vote records in -- I mean, excuse me, not vote records, but the rally records in Georgia, the rally records in Mississippi and Alabama. But it didn't translate into victories at the polls. And so I really am excited about the energy that Bernie Sanders has brought to the party but I'm not sure or certain that that's going to translate.
COSTELLO: OK. Well, let's talk about that because he has a message that energizes. Hillary Clinton kind of doesn't and isn't that what she needs to do at tonight's debate. She needs to like come up with some message that makes Democratic voters enthusiastic.
KOHN: Look, I think -- I think -- there is no question that Bernie Sanders has harnessed massive enthusiasm. By the way it's not just political enthusiasm, although I think, by the way if Hillary Clinton were mobilizing young voters in this way I don't know if we'd be sort of dismissing them by saying well, here's hoping they vote. It sort of feeds into the Bernie Sanders is a too idealistic a candidate and his supporters are too idealistic in that part of the process.
Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and be positive that he is changing not only our Democratic discourse more broadly but the political landscape by engaging a generation that maybe has previously not felt there was any reason to vote. So that is encouraging by itself. Tonight Bernie Sanders has to do one thing. He has to show the voters in New York and the American people in general that he is an idealist who can also translate that into action.
He has to say look, the American people. My program to say let's have college -- affordable college for everyone. You think it's not possible? Well, we spent trillions on the war in Iraq. So we can spend a few billion to get people to college. We can do that. And Hillary Clinton on the other hand has to -- has to make sure she's not alienating those populous voters and says look, there's a reason for you to support me. They are quite wary of her and for very good reason.
SELLERS: But there also is this -- I have to push back because to say that Hillary Clinton supporters aren't enthusiastic, it just -- it denies the fact that she's actually winning the delegate count. She's actually up in this race by 2.4 --
COSTELLO: By two million.
SELLER: 2.4 million voters and she's won more states. So by every single metric that you can define winning in this race she is doing that. So I think that there is this misnomer that they are not enthusiastic because they are.
SMITH: And you make a very good point. That's been one of the hesitations for people's support to go to Bernie's side all along. You know, he talks about a revolution. Could he actually do the things that he's talked about? And there was some an interesting moment. He did a long Q&A with the "Daily News" editorial board here in which he had a lot of trouble answering, you know, you talk about too big to fail and breaking up the banks, how would you actually do it, what would it actually look like? And he was fairly sketchy on just what the mechanisms would be. He needs to be better at making those kinds of cases I think.
COSTELLO: We will see what happens tonight.
SELLERS: It's going to be fun. Welcome to Brooklyn.
COSTELLO: Bakari, Sally, Chris, thank you.
KOHN: Going to be a big one.
COSTELLO: Thanks so much.
All right. The showdown between Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton is just a few hours away. Their first face-to-face debate in more than five weeks starts at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, moderated by Anderson Cooper only on CNN.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump firing up protesters over this delegate battle and Ted Cruz firing off saying Trump staffers are like union boss thugs.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:17:57] COSTELLO: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Welcome to the Brooklyn Navy Yard, where CNN's big Democratic debate will soon takes place. It's beautiful here but it's time to talk to the Republicans for just a bit. Because Donald Trump is, you know, he's really mad with his own party over delegate rules. He's actually promoting a protest.
Overnight, Donald Trump tweeted, "Big protest march in Colorado on Friday afternoon. Don't let the bosses take your vote." And by bosses, Mr. Trump is referring to GOP bigwigs. But Ted Cruz referring to a decidedly different kind of boss when asked about Donald Trump's campaign tactics at CNN's town hall last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald and his team, it's almost like they are subjects in a clinical course in psychology. In the last few weeks, Donald's team, Roger Stone, his chief political advisor, was threatening to out the hotel rooms of delegates whose dared to cross Trump so they could be intimidated. They're acting like union boss thugs. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Cruz not the only one concerned this morning. Colorado's GOP chairman says he's been getting death threats. Indiana party leaders also getting some scary messages after they said they saw no reason to help Trump supporters win delegate spots. One reads, quote, "You know, traditional burial is polluting the planet. Tom, hope the family is well. Your name and info has been given me on a list that's about to go public. We are watching you."
The Trump camp is denouncing those threats but let's talk a little bit more about that and more with CNN's Sara Murray. Good morning.
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Good morning, Carol. Well, it is pretty clear that Donald Trump and his supporters are not backing off of their complaints on this process. And look, the Trump campaign has a full plate right now. They are staffing up. The candidate is at war with the RNC. But they have at least one less distraction to worry about, and that is their campaign manager Corey Lewandowski. It looks like he will not be prosecuted in that run in with a female reporter.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[09:20:00] MURRAY (voice-over): Sources confirmed to CNN Trump's campaign manager will not be prosecuted for battery following this altercation with former Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields back in March. Fields, who could seek defamation charges against Corey Lewandowski, tweeting, "Office of prosecutor asked two weeks ago if I'd be OK with an apology from Corey. I said yes but haven't heard back about it."
On the campaign trail, tense moments outside a Trump rally in Pittsburgh as hundreds of angry protesters clashed with Trump supporters. Police in riot gear tried to keep the peace.
Inside, the frontrunner intensifying his war with the GOP.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a rigged system folks. The Republican system is a rigged system.
MURRAY: And doubling down on claims his party is conspiring to block him from the nomination.
TRUMP: The bosses and the establishment and the people that shouldn't have this power took all of the power away from the voters.
MURRAY: Republican Party chairman Reince Priebus firing back.
REINCE PRIEBUS, CHAIRMAN, RNC: The rules are not being changed in order to injure or benefit anybody. They are what they are.
MURRAY: At CNN's town hall, Trump's main rival Ted Cruz railing against Trump's tactics and accusing his supporters of threatening delegates. T. CRUZ: They're acting like union boss thugs. Well, I spoke
yesterday to the chairman of the Republican Party in Colorado. Trump supporters put out his home address, put out his phone numbers. He got thousands of phone calls. He got death threats. Trump supporters were telling the supporters go to his house and bring their guns.
Look, violence doesn't belong in democracy, and the Trump campaign encouraging it over and over again.
MURRAY: And on a lighter note, Cruz's wife shared how the couple met.
HEIDI CRUZ, TED CRUZ'S WIFE: It was really love at first sight.
MURRAY: But it was their 5 and 8-year-old daughters that stole the show.
T. CRUZ: Caroline's daddy-daughter picnic at school, which featured all the dads running and playing games, and...
CAROLINE CRUZ, TED CRUZ'S DAUGHTER: My favorite.
T. CRUZ: Your favorite was that she got to dress up Daddy in, like, this pink boa and these, like, big goofy-looking...
CAROLINE CRUZ: Underwear.
T. CRUZ: ... underwear...
CAROLINE CRUZ: And actually that was on a videotape the whole time.
T. CRUZ: Uh-oh.
CAROLINE CRUZ: And now it's a class video that they're sending out to all the parents.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Oh really?
(END VIEOTAPE)
MURRAY (on camera): Now, Carol, we got to see a softer side of the candidates in these CNN town halls. But today it is back to politics. All three Republican candidates will be speaking at the same dinner in New York tonight. So it will be interesting to see how much they want to contrast with each other when they're all going to be sharing the same stage and revolving through there tonight, Carol.
COSTELLO: Oh, it will be interesting. Sara Murray reporting live for us this morning. Thanks so much.
So let's talk about all this and more with CNN' senior political analyst and senior editor of "The Atlantic", Ron Brownstein. Good morning, Ron.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: OK, first off, I want to talk a little bit more about Ted Cruz's daughters. Because they really did steal the show. Especially Caroline. So I want our viewers to listen to a bit more of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
T. CRUZ: And indeed, just, what, a couple of days ago, I was back for Caroline's daddy-daughter picnic at school, which featured all the dads running and playing games, and...
CAROLINE CRUZ: My favorite.
T. CRUZ: ... your favorite was that she got to dress up Daddy in, like, this pink boa and these, like, big goofy-looking...
CAROLINE CRUZ: Underwear.
T. CRUZ: ... underwear...
CAROLINE CRUZ: And that's, FYI, that was on a videotape the whole time.
T. CRUZ: Uh-oh.
CAROLINE CRUZ: And now it's a class video that they're sending out to all the parents.
COOPER: Oh, really? Hmm.
T. CRUZ: But it does...
(LAUGHTER)
H. CRUZ: (INAUDIBLE) Anderson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: OK, it was so good, we had to show it to you twice. What a lovely moment. You know, we know Ted Cruz has problems with the likability factor. Does this help?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think the town halls have been an absolutely great addition to the presidential campaign dialogue. And in this further inundation of having the family come on with him has really been extraordinary this week.
And, sure, it helps but only so far. I mean, I think voters kind of assume as a baseline that you, as the candidate, that you are nice to your family and your family likes you. I think that takes you so far. But ultimately you're being judged on your public life. And on that front, Cruz has struggled. But these were -- these were I thought not only charming moments, but very revealing moments. And, Carol, how long until that video makes it onto the Internet? That's what I was wondering, listening to that clip.
COSTELLO: Exactly. That's what I'm wondering too, Ron, to be quite frank.
OK, well, let's get serious now. Because Senator Cruz accused Donald Trump of union boss thuggery. You know, he got a dig in at the Democrats at the same time he could dig in at Donald Trump, so it was a good line, right?
BROWNSTEIN: Right.
COSTELLO: But is it true?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, look, there has been an air of violence around many of the elements of the Trump campaign. I mean at the rallies I've been to it was not shocking to me that it kind of took the turn that it did in march with what we saw in North Carolina and Chicago and again last night in Pittsburgh. Tough for Trump, by the way, to go into any big city at this point and not face major protesting resistance.
[09:25:03] I do think that this is part of the problem Trump has and why he is facing this kind of unprecedented resistance. As we've said in times before, given the states he won early on in the process, almost in any precedent, what you'd be seeing at this point is the party consolidating around him and his vote moving towards 50 percent. He might hit 50 percent in New York, but except for that, it's just not happening. He hasn't 50 percent anywhere else and party leaders are kind of redoubling their efforts to stop him to reaching that first ballot majority. And I do think this is one of the reasons why, because the campaign has had this tone of if -- if we don't win, we are going to tear down the party by any means necessary.
COSTELLO: So in any way could this backfire against Mr. Trump? Or will it only make his supporters more passionate about their candidate?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, the answer is both, right. Because I think what we've seen very clearly from the beginning is that Donald Trump has the biggest piece of the Republican coalition. There is no question he has a bigger, broader base of support than Ted Cruz, who has struggled among voters who are not evangelical. John Kasich really has not been able to get out of that very narrow, moderate, white collar wing. Trump has the biggest piece of the party, but it is not a majority piece. He is a plurality frontrunner, winning about 40 percent of the vote. You got to guess he'll do better in the northeast; when you get beyond that, there's probably where he's going to revert to as it goes forward. And many of the same things that he's done that inspired such passionate support from his supporters have deeply alienated anyone else. The "Washington Post" is out again today, his national negatives continue to be unprecedented and his negatives among Republicans who are not voting for him, two thirds in the last CNN poll. The Republicans who are not voting Trump say they view him unfavorably. So he has been on a treadmill where what he has done to deepen his support has also tended to narrow his support.
COSTELLO: All right, Ron Brownstein, thanks so much. Always glad to have you.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Donald Trump not the only candidate that has a beef with election rules. Why Bernie Sanders is sounding off too. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
