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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Two Years Since Chibok Girls Abducted; Tales Of War, Survival At Lesbos Camp; A 6.2 Earthquake Aftershocks Strike Southern Japan; U.S. Presidential Candidates Converge On New York; Republican Candidates To Attend Gala In New York; Vladimir Putin Holds Annual Call-In Show; Greek Labor Minister On Migrant Influx; Brexit Battle: Future Of The U.K. In Europe; Royal Tour Of Bhutan. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired April 14, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:11] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to a special edition of THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live in
Greece where the pope is due to visit in a couple of days to highlight the refugee crisis that is still ongoing in Europe.
I also had a rare glimpse inside one of these migrant centers on the island and I will be speaking to the Greek labor minister a little bit later in
Also coming up --
HANNA VAUGHN JONES, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: I'm Hannah Vaughn Jones in London with the other major stories we are covering this hour.
Two years to the day after 200 girls were abducted from a Chibok school, the world is reacting to the incredible proof of life footage that you saw
first right here on CNN.
Exactly two years ago, the militant group, Boko Haram, abducted more than 270 girls from a school in Chibok, Nigeria. Almost nothing has been heard
about their fate since then until yesterday.
That's when we brought you new video obtained by CNN's senior international correspondent, Nima Elbagir, producer, Stephanie Basari (ph) and video
journalist, Sebastian Kanops (ph). The first purported proof in years that the girls might still be alive. Nima has been tracking the reaction to her
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's the glimmer of hope parents have been waiting for. A video showing 15 of
the Chibok girls sent to negotiators by their captors as proof of life.
CNN obtained the video from a person close to the negotiations to get the girls released and we shared it with parents of the missing girls.
But these young women in the video are only a handful of those girls abducted now two years ago. April 14th, 2014, 276 schools girl taken in
the night by Boko Haram gunmen a few dozen escaped.
But since then, there's been only silence. Despite the global campaigns to bring back our girls, two years later they remain missing. Facing heavy
criticism, Nigeria's government remains under pressure to bring them home.
KASHIM SHELTIMA, GOVERNOR OF BONRO STATE, NIGERIA: I believe that the girls are alive, but probably based on security you cannot get them in one
group. They might have been dispersed into several cells.
ELBAGIR: In Nigeria's capital, supporters and families of the missing march to mark the solemn anniversary. Among the demonstrators, Esther
Yakubu, her daughter, Juliana, was one of those kidnapped. Another news crew showed her our story. She broke down in tears saying she recognized
ESTHER YAKUBU, MOTHER OF ABDUCTED GIRL: I saw the girls. I recognize some of them because we are in the same area. I recognize them. They're the
ELBAGIR: It's the first sighting of the girls in nearly two years. And after an agonizing wait, families of the missing hoped the video is not yet
another false lead.
SHELTIMA: We believe that these girls will be found and very soon too and be returned to their families.
JONES: And Nima joins us now live from Nigeria. Nima, once again, the world's spotlight is firmly on Nigeria right now. Just how much pressure
is the government on to find the girls and find them quickly?
ELBAGIR: Well, Hannah, we're joined this evening by Ambassador Kema Chikwe, who is a former Cabinet minister in the opposition PDP who were in
power when the girls were taken. Thank you so much for joining us, Ambassador. We're hoping that she'll answer exactly those questions.
Your (inaudible) has in essence born the brunt of much of the criticism about why it's taken so long to find these girls. So please, what would be
great is to get a sense from you why you think it's taking so long to find these girls.
KEMA CHIKWE, FORMER NIGERIAN AVIATION MINISTER: Well, first of all, the Chibok girls issue is a very usual kind of problem in Nigeria. This style
of assault is suggesting, but I can assure you that the government did a lot, you know, to curve the problem of the insurgency and to rescue the
[15:05:10]But you see in a situation like this, information is key. And I know that the first lady then convened a meeting out of concern and she was
very passionate about it and tried to raise prudent questions, how over 200 young girls could disappear in that manner.
And I remember we talked about their identity, show their pictures for immediate intervention, but unfortunately, there was a lot of
politicization. Everybody knew something had gone wrong. The girls were missing.
As a matter of fact, my deputy, the deputy national leader of PDP is from Chibok, and she was traumatized. And I think the efforts made by the
government as soon as they got the information, I mean, no one can claim that government wasn't sensitive.
I think they did a lot to try to rescue the girls and we kept getting conflicting information. The same information we're getting then are still
the information we're getting now. Sometimes it's clear that the girls have been located.
Sometimes they claim that while there's no light in the tunnel. You know, it's still the same thing. I think the problem, the issue of the Chibok
girls to rescue them is a matter of combined efforts international efforts, national, local efforts. Information has to be able to carry so many young
girls away, must have been in some kind of vehicle.
ELBAGIR: Sorry, just to jump in there, you make a very good point and again we go back to the criticisms of the previous government. It was the
government's responsibility to sift through that information.
It was the responsibility of the Nigerian security apparatuses and this is what we keep hearing from the Chibok families, they don't believe that
enough was done to sift through that information in an effective manner. What's your response to that? What would you like to say?
CHIKWE: I would like to say, I'm very much in sympathy with the families.
ELBAGIR: It is clear.
CHIKWE: She is from Chibok. What I'm saying is that the government made efforts, at least I'm a witness to that. I attended that meetings. And
what is important, the Chibok families, if they accepted the invitation of the government then to discuss with them give some clues, questions, and so
I would have been a lot happier because I still insist that there was quite some politicization of the matter. I know the government was not
insensitive about it. The only thing I would rather say is that the circumstances then differ from the circumstances now.
ELBAGIR: In what sense?
CHIKWE: In what sense? In the sense that the government that was when it occurred. This present government now has a lot of leads to work on. The
information then was different from the information now. The information that was basic, you know, they were starting from the beginning to solve
Right now, we can establish some experiences. We can establish some actions. You know, even if the girls did not return, yes, but you see,
it's like the same time frame. This happened two years ago.
ELBAGIR: Sorry, quickly, our time is limited.
ELBAGIR: Are you optimistic that the girls will return?
CHIKWE: I'm optimistic. If the girls are alive, they will return.
ELBAGIR: Do you believe --
CHIKWE: This government, this government is making efforts also. You see, it's not a question I think I should answer whether they are alive or not
alive, but I can wish and hope that they are alive.
That's my prayer that they are alive. That's what's important to me and I believe that with the consistency and -- I mean, this government also has
sustained the efforts of the previous government to rescue these children. So I believe that if they are alive, by the grace of God --
ELBAGIR: Ambassador, thank you so much. Unfortunately, I wish we had more time, and I'm sure so many of our viewers share in your hopes and prayers.
Hanna, back to you in London.
JONES: Nima Elbagir live for us in Nigeria. Thank you so much and thank you to your guest as well for all the reaction to that proof of life video.
We're going to head back over now to Greece where Hala Gorani is live for us with all the rest of the news.
[15:10:12]GORANI: Indeed, Hanna. Really this is the goal line for people fleeing from Turkey. It's just a pit stop because the desire of many here
is to move on, move on from this island of Lesbos and other Greek islands to the mainland, through Athens, and hopefully toward Western Europe.
Many people in this camp are telling me that they want to rejoin family already in countries like Germany or other countries in Western Europe.
Right now, the situation is a situation of limbo for many people here. They describe horrific situations in their homeland including Iraq and
Syria. Once they fled all that tragedy, sometimes their problems are just beginning. Take a look.
GORANI (voice-over): For Uma Delberi (ph), the choice was simple, stay in Syria and die or flee. She chose life and after of months of running,
ended up here with her two daughters at the camp on the Greek island of Lesbos.
Her husband and two sons, she tells us, fled Syria seven months earlier and are already in Germany. My husband says if it was up to me, I'd bring you
here right away, but you have to wait for permission from European officials, she tells me.
I'm not here for a handout, but I want to see my children. I haven't seen my 7-year-old son in seven months. Her temporary home, a basic UNHCR
prefab, no running water, no power.
(Inaudible) family remains divided while she waits on her asylum application. She's told, it could take months. The story that mirrors
many at a camp designed to welcome the more refugees, women and children were the badly injured.
(on camera): But it's a very different situation here at the other camp on the island called Moria. It is closed, it's very controlled, there's even
riot police parked outside. We've even been told we're not allowed to film the front gates.
(voice-over): When asked why we didn't have access, officials wouldn't give us a reason. Here, the walls surrounding the camp have been freshly
painted white in anticipation of Pope Francis's visit to Lesbos on Saturday.
Elsewhere on the island, gone are the scenes of mass exodus and desperation of just a few months ago. Now refugees remain confined to enclosed camps,
and the migrants and refugees have managed to travel further, are stuck at closed borders between Greece and Macedonia. For families in limbo here,
waiting is now all they can do.
GORANI: Well, I'm joined with a gentleman here, Rashad, he's originally from Syria and who is joining us, thank you very much. You reside in this
camp. Tell us about life there.
RASHAD, SYRIAN REFUGEE: It's not like we were before in Moria. Moria, it was more difficult. We are here from six days.
GORANI: Six days, what is your hope now?
RASHAD: I hope to Greece government solves our problems and gives us our documents to continue our way.
GORANI: Where do you want to go?
RASHAD: I have my daughter in Germany. I want to go to join to my daughter.
GORANI: And when you call her, you talk to her, what do you tell her?
RASHAD: I tell her we are very -- I don't know in English --
GORANI: In Arabic.
RASHAD: In Arabic, (inaudible).
GORANI: OK, so you're hopeful you will be able to be with her. What is the most difficult part of living here?
RASHAD: We haven't electricity in our tent and we have also not good sleeping because we sleep on the floor. Yes, and the bathroom of sorts,
very far from the tents.
GORANI: The facilities are not great. What did you do in Syria? What was your work?
RASHAD: I'm an engineer in Syria.
GORANI: You're an engineer. And you want to work again as an engineer in Europe?
RASHAD: Of course. And return to Syria as soon as possible.
GORANI: Thank you very much, Rashad, really appreciate it. It's very good speaking to somebody who actually can tell us what it's like firsthand.
So there you have it, Hanna, I'll be back a little bit later with the labor minister for Greece who's going to be talking about the situation as well.
And we'll have a lot more coverage from Lesbos here.
Of course, we are here as we were telling our viewers because Pope Francis will be visiting this island in a couple of days, but we also wanted to
revisit an important story that goes sometimes far from the headlines is still very much a crisis for this region. Back to you.
[15:15:04]JONES: Hala, thanks so much. We will come back to you later on in the program as well. But for our viewers watching me here in London,
still to come tonight, an earthquake destroys more than a dozen homes in Southern Japan. We'll find out the potential for more aftershocks, next.
And later, it's the final Democratic presidential debate before the crucial New York primary. We'll preview the show down between Hillary Clinton and
Bernie Sanders now just hours away.
JONES: A powerful earthquake has destroyed at least 19 homes in Southern Japan and a number of people may still be trapped under collapsed
buildings. The 6.2 magnitude quake hit the island of Kyushu injuring at least 12 people.
The disaster also sparked a fire in a town close to the epicenter. Aftershocks continue to shake the area. Meteorologist Jennifer Gray joins
me now from the International Weather Center in Atlanta with more details on this.
From what we know about the size of this quake and the location of it, how much damage could this potentially cause?
JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, we could see even more damage than we've seen because we keep having these aftershocks. And these are going
to continue for several days, weeks, months, even up to a year from today.
And so that's why we could see more damage because every time these aftershocks occur, buildings that were compromised during the initial quake
could be further compromised as we go down the road. And that's why we'll see more damage.
Two things with this quake, one it was very, very shallow, so you don't have as much of a buffer as you do with deeper quakes. So you feel it more
and you also get more damage.
Second of all, it was right under a major city, a city of about a million people and so you're also going to get more damage because of that. The
epicenter right there and then all of these aftershocks pretty much to the south and east of that epicenter.
This graphic is a population graphic, you can see these high towers, the higher the tower, the more people in that area. And this bright orange is
where we felt the strongest shaking.
And so you can see with the population density right here, and all of that strong shaking, it's really going hand in hand unfortunately and then right
on the outskirts, not as many people there, but they didn't feel it quite as strong.
It's really insult to injury right there. We saw the strongest shaking in areas that had the highest population. About 750,000 people felt the
strongest shaking so this had a huge impact on this area.
Normally a 6.2, Japan can handle quite well, but because this was underneath a very populated city, that's where we're seeing all of this
damage and the possibility unfortunately of people still trapped.
Estimated fatalities when you have a quake around an area that's this populated of this size, 57 percent that we could see between 10 and 100
[15:20:02]And it's also going to have a huge economic impact on this portion of Japan with a quake this size, the possibility of it being
between $1 billion and $10 billion, it's about 42 percent.
So a lot more is going to come out regarding this quake, Hanna, in the coming days and of course, those aftershocks for the next days, weeks, and
JONES: OK, Jennifer, thanks so much for staying across this story for us.
GRAY: Thank you.
JONES: All five Democratic and Republican candidates for U.S. president are making high profile appearances in New York today as time runs out for
them to win over votes ahead of the state's crucial primary on Tuesday.
Sparks could fly when Hillary Clinton faces off with Bernie Sanders in a CNN debate. And now just hours away, and as Joe Johns reports, policy
differences have given way to personal attacks while the Democratic race tightens.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am so glad to be back in the Bronx.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rivals Hillary Clinton and Senator Bernie Sanders both hosting dueling New York
rallies ahead of tonight's CNN Democratic presidential debate.
Sanders revving up a massive crowd estimated by organizers to be above 27,000 in Washington Square Park. Sanders receiving a rock star welcome
with celebrities before he aggressively went after Secretary Clinton.
BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Our differences with Secretary Clinton go beyond how we raise money. It goes to an issue which the media
doesn't cover, that is our disastrous trade policies which are costing us millions of jobs.
JOHNS: Clinton making the case to voters in the Bronx, urging them to back her over Sanders.
CLINTON: I was honored to be your senator for eight years. And if you will give me the honor of your vote on Tuesday, we will continue to make
JOHNS: And keeping her attacks on the Republican hopefuls.
CLINTON: One of them denigrates New York values. Mr. Trump wants to set Americans against each other. He wants to build walls. I want us to build
JOHNS: Tonight's high stakes debate comes as the heated war of words between Sanders and Clinton intensifies.
SANDERS: I have my doubts about what kind of president she would make.
JOHNS: And accusations from the Sanders campaign that the primary process is weighted in favor of Clinton.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not a democratic way to carry out an election.
JONES: Well, you can catch the Democratic debate later on CNN. It happens tonight, 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time and that's 2:00 a.m. in London. And we
will replay it a few hours later 12:00 p.m. on Friday in London.
Now let's get an update on the Republican presidential candidates, Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and John Kasich will all attend a gala in New York in a
few hours' time.
Things could get especially interesting when Trump takes the stage, considering he's at war with his own party over delegate rules. Trump did
get good news today, though.
The state of Florida will not prosecute his campaign manager, Cory Lewandowski on a misdemeanor battery charge. Last month, a reporter
accused him of grabbing and bruising her arm at a Trump rally.
Ted Cruz is accusing Trump and his supporters of acting like union boss thugs as they try to secure the nomination for the Republican frontrunner.
That remark came during a CNN town hall that was all business at first.
It began with a one on one grilling by Anderson Cooper, but the tone and the questions softened once Cruz's wife, Heidi and the two young daughters
took the stage. Many agree, it was the young girls who stole the show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Katherine is sweet, Carolyn is rascally. Katherine is like her mommy. Carolyn is like her daddy.
Poor girl, she gives these hugs she calls marshmallow hugs that are just the sweetest thing in the world, and she says, Daddy, who do you love
better, me or Carolyn. She got to dress up daddy in this pink boa and big goofy-looking underwear --
UNIDENTIFIE CHILD: Underwear. And that was on a videotape the whole time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Very cute there. Let's turn our attention now to Russia where President Vladimir Putin is sharing his thoughts on everything from the
Panama papers leak to the war in Syria to a doping scandal in the sports world.
He fielded questions from ordinary Russians during a highly choreographed live television show, an event he holds every year. Matthew Chance has
some of the highlights.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was another epic Q & A session of the Russian president answering dozens of questions
over the nearly four hours including many, of course, about the Russian economy, which he acknowledged was in a gray period.
[15:25:07]He spoke about foreign policy in some of his responses as well, denying for instance the Russia abandoned Syria and talking up that
country's armed forces.
He also praised for President Obama of the United States saying that his admission of the stakes being made in Libya meant that he was a, quote,
One 12-year-old girl asked the slightly awkward question of President Putin about President Poroshenko of Ukraine and Erdogan of Turkey, both at odds
for different reasons with the Kremlin.
Which one would he save, the girl asked, if they were both drowning? President Putin said he would extend a hand to anyone who would take it,
but if someone's decided to drown, he said, it's hard to stop them.
Although the questions are believed to be closely vetted and the responses staged, a second awkward moment came when Putin was asked about his ex-wife
who is reported to have recently remarried.
When will you introduce a new first lady, the president was asked? The Russian president notoriously guarded about his personal life, joked that
his private affairs are not a priority as they don't effect the ruble or the oil price, but he said that maybe, one day, he would satisfy that
public interest. Matthew Chance, CNN, Moscow.
JONES: Next on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW, we'll return to Nigeria. There's new evidence some of the girls kidnapped two years ago may still be alive and
reaction to that proof of life is pouring in at CNN.
Plus we're live in Lesbos, Greece, on the front lines of the Europe's migrant crisis as the island prepares for a papal visit on Saturday. Our
own Hala Gorani will ask the Greek labor minister how his country is handling the influx.
JONES: Two years have passed since more than 270 schoolgirls were abducted by Boko Haram in Chibok, Nigeria. On Wednesday, CNN showed a proof of life
video of some of the girls. The first one obtained in years. Family members and government officials have been expressing hope that the girls
can be returned.
A shallow 6.2 magnitude earthquake struck a populated area in Southern Japan. Destroying homes and injuring at least a dozen people. The
disaster sparked a fire in a town close to the epicenter.
Just hours from now, the U.S. Democratic presidential candidates will face off in a debate hosted by CNN. It is their lost show down before the
crucial New York primary next Tuesday.
[15:30:05]The race has become increasingly heated in recent days, as policy disputes give way to personal attacks between the two.
Russian President Vladimir Putin says the Panama papers leak is a U.S. plot to destabilize his country. That accusation came during a television
question and answer session with the Russian public that he holds every year. But Mr. Putin also claimed U.S. President Barack Obama was, quote,
"a good man."
Back to our top story, marking two years since hundreds of girls were snatched from their school in Nigeria by Boko Haram insurgents. Our Isha
Sesay has covered the story extensively from the very beginning.
In May of 2014, she fired a series of tough questions at Nigeria's information minister about the government's response to the mass
kidnapping. Watch this.
ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So when did you learn of this attack? When did you learn of this attack? We have been through this. Let us move
forward to share information. When did you learn?
LABARAN MAKU, NIGERIAN INFORMATION MINISTER: As a government, as a government, it was the following week. As a government, it was the
following -- and if and when the information came, it was very, very hazy. She came back the following day and said students are unaccounted. We went
through this with you before.
SESAY: OK. But I still --
MAKU: And the moment we confirmed that this was the case, we went into action.
SESAY: Not what we've heard from people on the ground. You contract that, you said that is not what happened. All we are asking for is the Nigerian
government to be transparent with us. That is all we're asking for.
MAKU: Listen, listen --
SESAY: It is brutally of your response. It is not a trial. It is scrutiny.
GORANI: Well, Isha joins me live from Los Angeles. Isha, it's one of those stories you can't help but feel emotionally involved in it especially
when you've been covering it as closely as you have over the last couple of years. I want to ask you about this proof of life video that we showed
yesterday. When you saw that, what was your reaction?
SESAY: It was a range of emotions, Hanna, but I think most predominantly, huge sadness. Huge, huge sadness that these girls still aren't reunited
with their loved ones. Sadness that the Nigerian government and as far as I'm concerned, the world failed the girls and their families in not
actually, you know, closing this out and doing everything necessary to bring the girls back.
Sadness at the fact that there were people in Nigeria who for the longest time, Hanna, denied that these girls were even taken. Sadness for the
girls themselves. And you know, when I watch the video and I've seen it, you know, many, many times, since we shared it with the public, you know,
it's a mix of sadness, then there's just deep anger. Anger at the fact that this has gone on for so long.
JONES: And it was so harrowing wasn't it just to watch the mothers watching the video of their daughters. Not just because in some cases they
saw it and they were pleased that there was evidence that they were alive, but for some of the mothers there one they didn't spot their child amongst
the 15 that were lined up and that makes it so much harder to watch.
SESAY: It makes it so much harder and Hanna, I've been in touch with the Chibok community and the leaders of the "Bring Back Our Girls Movement" for
the past two years continuously. I've been in regular contact.
I interviewed the cofounder here in L.A. about six weeks ago. So, you know, I've been able to follow the plight of the families themselves. This
was such a big moment for the families who were able to see their children on the video.
But one thing that to remind our viewers to kind of really drive home the depth of pain here, some family members have actually according to others
I've spoken to have lost their lives.
Basically died and those associated with the movement say, it's the heartbreak that basically they were unable to bear. So more than a dozen
parents I have been told have in the course of two years lost their lives waiting for their children to be reunited.
So there is so much pain, not just the pain that we see on the video when these parents see their children, but countless others who are mourning,
the most active sense, daily, mourning for their children.
JONES: And that was so obvious, wasn't it as well in the report. Just the fact that this is so heart breaking and the fact that they clearly feel let
down by their own government as well. It wasn't the government that came to them with the video, it was CNN.
SESAY: Yes, you know, and listen, there has been a change in the government since this happened. This happened during the regime of
Goodluck Jonathan, now there is a new president in place. So there has been this transition.
[15:35:02]But what remains constant as I have spoken to people in Nigeria is the feeling amongst the Chibok community that the government still
doesn't truly appreciate their pain and suffering.
That remains a constant here and that is the sadness and anger that file. And I think many feel if you've been closely following the story.
That these parents, even in the recent meeting they had with government officials, top government officials, felt that they were disrespected and
felt that they weren't heard.
And that is the point, you know, that CNN made this -- we got this video out and we are showing these families and the world that their voices are
heard and we will stay on the story.
JONES: Isha, it's great to talk to you. Isha Sesay live for us there in Los Angeles, thank you so much for your reflections on this story.
Well, for now we're taking you back to Lesbos where Hala Gorani is live for us tonight -- Hala.
GORANI: Yes, Hanna, we continue our special coverage from Lesbos, Greece, here an island that is the front lines of the migrant crisis. To put it in
context for you, an island the size of Lesbos has seen an influx of half a million refugees and migrants in just the last little more than a year.
Imagine how many times the size of this population this is. The camp behind me, though it is orderly is very rudimentary in terms of living
conditions. They are basically huts, tents. There is no running water. There's no electricity.
People here mainly coming up to me. They see the camera. They know we're covering this and say listen, we appreciate the hospitality of the Greece
people, but we have no idea when our asylum papers are going to be processed.
We have family elsewhere in Europe and we're worried this might take nine months, a year, family reunification programs are taking longer and longer.
Joining me now is Giorgos Katrougalos. He is the labor minister for Greece and he is speaking to us from Athens. Minister, thanks for being with us.
First of all, what would you say to the refugees and the migrants here? Desperate, as you can imagine who say I am not getting enough information.
I am worried I might be stuck here because of this new deal for months, if not years. What would you say to them?
GIORGOS KATROUGALOS, GREECE LABOR MINISTER: Greece is trying to cope simultaneously with the refugee crisis and an economic crisis that is
raging the last five years here. And we are trying to cope by respecting the rights of these people, their fear, their pain, but this is clear that
Greece cannot cope alone.
So what we are trying to do is to provide humane conditions for the refugees, and we are expecting that the European Union is going to carry on
decisions or taken for relocation of a number of refugees in other European countries and of course, the application of the agreement with Turkey that
will try to regulate the refugees close.
GORANI: But what's the problem? What are you missing here? Because I'm hearing that these applications are piling up. That there's a huge backlog
that people are not hearing when they might be granted a decision?
What is the problem? Is it lack of staff? Is it the fact that the border with Macedonia is closed? What exactly is at the heart of this now?
KATROUGALOS: Well, it's a number of factors accumulate in problems. First of all, we have already put in place the necessary centers for accepting
the refugees and examining individually their requests, but on the other hand, we have already more than 50,000 refugees in Greece.
Much more than our share with our population and our means so basically, we are trying to persuade the refugees that they must move from the initial
hot spots that are not attended to be permanent places of hospitality to other more permanent locations in the mainland.
But, on the other hand, we do not want to use force violence, even the police, for people that are fleeing danger and really scared and very
anxious about their future. So it's a very complicated situation --
GORANI: So why are you not allowing -- I get the complication, but as a journalist, I was puzzled today, I tried to go to one of the hot spot
camps, Moria on the island, I was told I can't film the front gate. What exactly is going on there? The pope is going there on Saturday. We were
told this was a decision from Athens and I'm just curious why that is.
KATROUGALOS: Well, the real problem is not at this moment of the islands, the real problem is at the many different tiers. Exactly because we had
these unilateral decision of closing the frontiers.
Despite the decision, they can last here that all of this number of refugees already in Greece should be relocated to other countries, European
countries, I mean.
[15:40:07]So now basically we have a problem of regulating flows that are irregular and although we have seen a clear reduction of the number of
people coming, we have not yet established --
GORANI: Right, but the boarder is closed, no matter what the people do in any camp that they're in, they're not letting -- they're not being let
through into Macedonia. They're stuck. They're stuck in terrible conditions at that border area.
KATROUGALOS: But exactly. This is the problem. We wanted to relocate them to the centers of hospitality we have organized in the mainland, and
they are reluctant to go because they have false hope that the frontier is going to open.
The decision we face is to move them by force. We don't want to do that. Basically there are families, 40 percent children. We are trying to
persuade them to move. So to solve the problem in a humane and not violent way.
GORANI: All right, Giorgos Katrougalos, the labor minister for Greece joining us from Athens, thanks very much. There talking about some of the
really dire conditions near the Macedonian border. Saying that the government would rather not use force to relocate them elsewhere. We know
there is a camp also on the island here. We haven't been able to see inside that one. Thanks very much, sir, for joining us. Minister
All right. And before we leave you, I want to speak to actually the manager of this camp, sir, if you could step in, Stavros Mirayiannis. How
STAVROS MIRAYIANNIS, GENERAL MANAGER, KARALEPU CAMP: I'm OK.
GORANI: We saw you earlier today. It's a bit of a stressful job, isn't it, being here and managing this camp?
MIRAYIANNIS: Yes. It is. Yes, it is, but we feel like a (inaudible).
GORANI: Like a what?
MIRAYIANNIS: Like a servant.
MIRAYIANNIS: We don't feel like workers. For what? First I want to say for you, welcome to Greece. Welcome to this island. Welcome to my villas.
Welcome to this side because it's not camp, it's a site. Hospitality site of Lesbos.
GORANI: But the people here still feel uncomfortable. Not by your fault at all, but at their very basic living conditions. There's no light in the
tents. There's no water. They have to water in common -- they're feeling like they just to want move on and they don't have the information.
MIRAYIANNIS: You mean on this side?
MIRAYIANNIS: No, it's not -- we have --
GORANI: Yes, of course.
MIRAYIANNIS: And you see all these tents, no, it's not tents.
GORANI: What I mean, there are structures, but they don't have running water and electricity, and it's not that people aren't thankful, they want
to move on to rejoin their families in Western Europe.
MIRAYIANNIS: From our mayor, very clear from the beginning, try and give all of you over there the best hospitality, good support and good services.
We don't make it politician. No, I'm not politician. I am democrat, for that I am here. We try every day to give our hospitality, our service and
our support to our visitors. I wouldn't give guidance to those people --
GORANI: They're migrants and refugees. That is what they are. That's what we're going to call them.
MIRAYIANNIS: We don't give those titles to our visitors.
GORANI: Can I ask you a question because many of the people I spoke within the camp today all had the same question, and they all had the same
frustration to be frank with you.
They said listen, we are thankful that the Greeks have been hospitable and you have been, but we have no visibility. We don't know when our paperwork
will be processed and when we will get a decision. Can you answer that question?
MIRAYIANNIS: It's necessary to wait because it's very new. The European governments have a new plan with Turkey's government. They have an
agreement so it's necessary to wait and see. It's necessary to see the plan.
The new plan to run this plan. Yes. It's very soon for that, but exactly, with all of us, we like to run this plan not for us, but for our people.
Our people stay here, enjoy our hospitality, but all of these people like and want to move. OK, and something don't help us, like that. It's not
GORANI: No. It's not a question of fault.
MIRAYIANNIS: No, no, no --
GORANI: Trying to explain the frustrations. Thank you very much. We appreciate your time with us live here on CNN. We're going to continue our
coverage through tomorrow and Saturday as well with the papal visit.
MIRAYIANNIS: Thank you very much, and I want to tell you something last --
GORANI: OK. We have very few seconds.
MIRAYIANNIS: Yes, we don't have gifts to give you for your visit, but we'll give you a promise to everybody we give this promise, we stay here
like Greek citizens, like European citizens to give the best hospitality and good support and good service to our visitors.
[15:45:08]GORANI: We appreciate it. Thank you very much. We'll be back after a quick break with Hanna in the studio.
JONES: The chief of the International Monetary Fund warns that a Brexit could have extremely damaging consequences for the regional and global
economy. The British government is taking the same line, of course, and it's trying to win over voters ahead of the June 23rd referendum.
Nic Robertson asked Londoners if they understand what's at stake.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Here it is, the new government handbook on why British people should vote to stay in the
European Union. The Brexit battle, the future of the U.K. in Europe is just beginning to heat up, two months until voting. Have you guys -- have
you read this yet?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
ROBERTSON: Have you read this yet?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
ROBERTSON: Are you going to read it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I had a copy of it, I would read it.
ROBERTSON: Have you read this from the government yet?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. We have.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Polls have the in and out campaigns more or less neck and neck. With the outs edging ahead, but so close to such a
momentous event, there is confusion.
SEBASTIAN PAYNE, DIGITAL COMMENT EDITOR, "FINANCIAL TIMES": I think people are confused because the arguments about numbers and immigration
technically you turn on the radio and hear about fishing quotas or trade tariffs. Voters have no idea what it means whether it's good or bad.
ROBERTSON: As Churchill might have said, never before in the field of referendums have so many known so little about something so important.
(on camera): Undecided, why is that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Undecided because basically there's not enough information for me to make up my mind and there is too much fear mongering.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): Now they're asking me for help.
(on camera): Do I think it will help? Well, let's read it and have a look. It tells you which day, the 23rd. OK. Over three million U.K. jobs
are linked to exports. Do you believe this stuff when you read it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it depends, I mean, is it evidence-based? Where is the evidence from?
ROBERTSON (voice-over): They're not the only ones doubting the government.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Government says how many jobs the U.K. is dependent on, and they don't tell you --
ROBERTSON (on camera): Three million.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, but the assumption is all those jobs would be lost if we leave the U.K. and that's rubbish because we would renegotiate the
ROBERTSON: When will you make your mind up?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably when I have more information from the other side.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): The other side, that's flamboyant London mayor, Boris Johnson. When he came out for the outs, he was promptly pummeled for
playing politics and gamble his critics said to get Cameron's job, prime minister. For his part, the PM says even if he loses, he'll stay on to
negotiate the exit. The drama is building.
[15:50:08]PAYNE: The biggest decision that voters are going to take for a generation, the last referendum was in 1975. Unless you're nearly
pensionable age, you haven't had a chance to vote on the membership.
ROBERTSON: For some we found, that day can't come soon enough.
(on camera): Have you read this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I'm a firm believer that we should get out of the E.U.
ROBERTSON: Why is that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's far too much money that we don't need.
ROBERTSON (voice-over): It won't be the last word. That's for sure. Nic Robertson, CNN, London. Thank you.
JONES: Stay with us on THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. Coming up, more fallout over the Panama papers. Our very own, Richard Quest, talked to a senior
Panamanian official about the leak. We'll have all that after this break.
JONES: Welcome back. Well, the fallout from the Panama papers shows no signs of slowing down. The document leak shined a spotlight on offshore
accounts and tax havens around the world. Now the world is taking notice.
Finance ministers along with the Organization for Economic Corporation and Developments as well as the International Monetary Fund are expected to
call for action against tax fraud and money laundering.
Our Richard Quest joins us now with more on this. Richard, I understand they're going to be pushing for more transparency for all. It sounds like
a lovely idea, but how is that going to work in practice?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN MONEY EDITOR-AT-LARGE: The real point is the press conference in the next 10 minutes or so. You have Britain, United Kingdom,
Germany, Spain, a bunch of other countries that are part of the G5 as such.
They're going to talk about greater needs for transparency, greater needs for reporting, money laundering, and prevention, but the reality is they
say this is all been on the agenda before.
And maybe somebody has just discovered from the Panama papers something they didn't already know, but they should have, but what seems to have
happened a bit like a cattle prod, the Panama papers that has galvanized them into once again doing something about it.
And it's an easy target for them because they can all come together, they can all make a great deal of noise as they did in Brisbane 2014. They did
in 2009 at the London G20, and they could all come together and make a great deal of noise about how often it is, but until they actually do
something, nothing really changes.
JONES: OK, Richard, we are going to be going live across to that briefing in Washington where you are, just as soon as it happens with all the of the
latest fallout from the Panama papers. There's 11 million documents. Thanks so much for the preview there, thank you.
Now the duke and duchess of Cambridge are in the Himalayan country of Bhutan. The British royal couple were welcomed by the country's king and
queen who are referred to as the Will and Kate of the Himalayas. Sumnima Udas has more.
SUMNIMA UDAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: After a whirlwind tour of India, Prince William and Katherine are now in a remote kingdom of Bhutan where they're
being hosted by another royal couple, the king and queen of Bhutan, affectionately dubbed the Will and Kate of the east.
Even though Bhutan and Britain are thousands of miles away, the two countries really have nothing in common. These two royal couples actually
have a lot of similarities. Both are young and charming. They've got married in the same year in 2011.
[15:55:03]Both are relatively new parents, just like Katherine, the queen of Bhutan was a commoner before her marriage made her royalty. And both
are celebrated for their fashion sense.
But in addition to building a personal relationship with a royal family in Asia, the duke and duchess are also in Bhutan to learn more about a country
that's famously prioritized happiness of its people above all other national goals.
Instead of GDP, they look at what they call GNH or gross national happiness. It's a country that is long been isolated from the outside
world, the last to introduce television just a little over 15 years ago.
They've also made it relatively expensive for most foreigners to visit in order to preserve that rich Buddhist culture that they have there and their
But with these kinds of colorful pictures of the duke and duchess splashed all over the international media, things for this once secluded area may
change quite quake quickly. Sumnima Udas, CNN, New Delhi.
JONES: Now, you can't write something better than this. Those words from basketball superstar, Kobe Bryant. He scored 60 points in his final NBA
JONES: And with that last shot there, Bryant closed out an incredible 20- year career with the L.A. Lakers. He is the third highest scorer in NBA history and has five championship titles to his name.
Thank you so much for watching. This has been THE WORLD RIGHT NOW. We are coming up next with "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS." Thank you.