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Sanders Speaks in Vatican City; Clinton, sanders Spar Over Wall Street; Proof of Life Video of Abducted Chibok Girls; Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired April 15, 2016 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00] BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're at the top of this hour he has exactly 10 minutes to present his topic. His topic is the urgency of a moral economy. Now this is part of a conference that's focusing on the changes in the global economy in the last 25 years. It's organized by the Pontifical Academy on Social Sciences.

Now in that -- in those 10 minutes of remarks, it's expected that Senator Sanders will address familiar themes, such as the inequality of income, the need to put people before profits and, of course, these are themes that are a favorite also of Pope Francis who in the past has called unfettered capitalism the dung of the devil.

Now Vatican officials stress, however, that Senator Sanders will not be meeting with the Pope, and the Pope isn't in any way participating in this conference. Even though, of course, Senator Sanders had said he very much wants to meet Pope Francis, a man he has said he greatly admires. Nonetheless, we can't rule out the possibility that given this -- that this is a Pope who likes to do the unexpected, that, in fact, he may, indeed, meet with Senator Sanders, but an endorsement, however, Carol, is highly unlikely.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the Pope has dipped his toe into American politics. So -- so would he want to stay away completely from actually meeting with a candidate who's running for president in the United States?

WEDEMAN: Well, as I said, even though officials here say that that's not going to happen, we've also heard from Vatican officials that when it comes, certainly to the issues of income inequality and the morality of the economy, that they see very much eye to eye. At same time, however, on things like same-sex marriage, contraception and abortion, they differ quite dramatically, but at this point, it would be something of a break with protocol if the Pope were to actually meet with Bernie Sanders.

COSTELLO: All right. Ben Wedeman live from Vatican City. Thanks so much.

Bernie Sanders slammed Wall Street repeatedly in Thursday's CNN debate. He again pushed for Hillary Clinton to release transcripts of her speeches for Goldman Sachs. But when called on by CNN's Dana Bash to name one instance where Clinton's ties to Wall Street influenced her policies, he could not. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN DEBATE MODERATOR: You've consistently criticized Secretary Clinton for accepting money from Wall Street. Can you name one decision that she made as senator that shows that she favored banks because of the money she received?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The obvious decision is when the greed and recklessness and illegal behavior of Wall Street brought this country into the worst economic downturn since the Great Recession -- Great Depression of the '30s, when millions of people lost their jobs and their homes and their life savings.

The obvious response to that is that you got a bunch of fraudulent operators and that they have got to be broken up. That was my view way back and I introduced legislation to do that.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You can tell, Dana, he cannot -- he cannot come up with any example because there is no example.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So we're at the same dead end. Clinton won't release her transcripts and Sanders won't outline his plan if he has one to break up the big banks. So let's talk about this and more, I'm joined by Jonathan Tasini. He's the author of "The Essential Bernie Sanders and His Vision for America," the former outside economic adviser to President Obama, Robert Wolf.

Welcome to both of you.

ROBERT WOLF, OUTSIDE ECONOMIC ADVISER TO PRESIDENT OBAMA: Great to be here.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you here. So, Jonathan, can you think of a piece of legislation that Hillary Clinton was -- supported that would point to her love of big banks in Wall Street?

JONATHAN TASINI, BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTER: Yes, I absolutely can.

COSTELLO: You came prepared. Bernie Sanders did not.

TASINI: No. And Jeff Zeleny, after the debate, if you watched him interviewing, they talked about this very thing, so I'm a labor movement activist. I've been doing this work for many years, political lobbying. In 2001 there was a thing called the Bankruptcy Bill, which essentially was a bill that was supported by the credit card industries. And what it did was, was take away from millions of hard-working Americans the ability to file bankruptcy.

And I'm going to read now from Elizabeth Warren, a great standard, someone who's neutral in this race.

COSTELLO: Her middle name is "let's break up the big banks." TASINI: Let's -- from her book, "The Two Income Trap." In the spring

of 2001 the Bankruptcy Bill was re-introduced in the Senate essentially unchanged from the version that President Clinton had vetoed the previous year. This time freshman senator Hillary Clinton voted in favor of the bill. The bill was essentially the same. Now what changed? Campaigns cost money. And that money wasn't coming from families in financial trouble. Senator Clinton received $140,000 in campaign contributions from banking industry executives in a single year making her one of the top two recipients in the Senate and it goes on.

[09:35:06] So there's absolutely -- and this was a major bill. This hurt millions of working families. The very people that Bernie defends and that Hillary Clinton essentially is not in support of because of the huge amount of money that comes from Wall Street.

COSTELLO: Robert?

WOLF: Well, listen, it was an incredibly disappointing week for Senator Sanders. I mean, the "Daily News" article was clear. His number one platform has been talking about breaking up the big banks and the truth is, he doesn't understand Dodd-Frank. Unlike Secretary Clinton he has not been able to discuss actually the living wills or the resolution authority. He really didn't understand the role of the Fed. So it's clear to me it's great to say, break up the banks, break up the banks.

It's great populace rhetoric, but if you don't actually understand how to do that and what the banks have done and how important, by the way -- we should be clear. Banks are important to this country. OK. Without the financial services, it's important to do lending, it's important to do loans. And so it's nice to have --

COSTELLO: Employ a lot of people.

WOLF: It's nice to be an anti-business populist, but at --

COSTELLO: Well, let me --

(CROSSTALK)

WOLF: Can I just finish, please? It's nice to be anti-business but we need businesses to be successful in this country.

COSTELLO: Well, let me outline what Bernie Sanders said last night about breaking up the big banks. He said maybe the banks should figure what to sell off. He's not sure if the government should step in and break up the big banks. So is that his -- what's his plan?

(CROSSTALK)

TASINI: I know.

WOLF: That's just a secondary -- after the "Daily News" -- go ahead, Paul.

TASINI: No, no. Finish. Go ahead.

WOLF: No, no. More of the same. He really doesn't have any policy.

TASINI: First thing I want to point out that Bob shifted the subject, changed the subject after I pointed out that in fact there was a major piece of legislation.

COSTELLO: He's a political guy.

TASINI: It's all right. I want to point out that it's on the record that Hillary Clinton has received Wall Street money and it has influenced her vote. So let's stop the nonsense.

COSTELLO: No, no. I want to -- I'm talking about Bernie Sanders's plan.

TASINI: I'm coming back to that. But I just want to --

COSTELLO: Because I think you answered that question very well first off.

(CROSSTALK)

TASINI: Wait a minute. Let me interrupt you, Bob. So I want to -- I want to underline and underscore.

WOLF: OK.

TASINI: That that influenced her vote. She voted for a bankruptcy bill that hurt millions of people. Now to your point, last night, actually Bob was the chairman of UBS, a bank, the American version of the bank. Right? The American --

WOLF: I was president of the -- I'm also Obama's three-time presidential appointee. So if you want to hit me, we should also -- you're also hitting Obama. So that's fine.

TASINI: No, no. But I'm going to ask you a different question which is when Bernie said the government shouldn't come in and tell a bank how to break itself up. In other words, the Fed and the Treasury should set the standards and say here's how big you are. I'm asking actually, as a business, wouldn't you prefer as the head of a bank to say, OK. That's the law. It's our job. You don't want the government coming in saying, go sell this unit. Isn't that a fair --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: So let me just interject a question from an outsider, who's not an expert in banking.

WOLF: Yes. Please let's go. Yes. Thank you.

COSTELLO: So I would say, like, you're going to leave it up to the banks to decide how to downsize?

TASINI: Yes. COSTELLO: Really? Would you do that? As a -- as the head of a --

WOLF: Listen, as the only one on this panel and on the stage last night who was there over the Lehman weekend, it was clear that during the Lehman crisis and the AIG crisis, which by the way Senator Sanders does not realize his policy would not include AIG nor Lehman. OK. They are not bank-holding companies. So the idea that Secretary Clinton brings in the shadow banking systems that is the essence of their difference. OK?

Secretary Clinton is not saying she wouldn't break up the big banks. What she's saying is there's more than just the big banks that have to be regulated and I think that's a big difference. And it goes to the point of the "Daily News" article. And it's not as if I read the "Daily News." It's just I happened to have read that interview. The point is, the biggest part of his platform, he really doesn't understand the intricacies which also goes to the same point you're making.

If a regulator decides the bank is too big, they will work with that bank to make sure they understand what assets they may need to sell or may not need to sell. Citibank passed a living will test because they actually ridded some assets that were deemed too risky to manage. So yes, there is going to be -- unfortunately whether we like it or not, the private sector is going to be in a regulated environment with banks and banks are going to have to work with the regulation.

COSTELLO: OK. Last word, Jonathan.

TASINI: All right. Let me back -- it's OK. The first thing is, all that thing about the "Daily News" article debunked by lots of people including the "New York Times," the Roosevelt Institute. Bernie knew exactly what he was talking about and it's very much in line. But I really honestly wanted to know from Bob, because I do think Bernie's position, other people's position is the regulators should set the standards and the banks should go in. You don't want the government saying, go sell off A, B, C unit. You want to be able to figure that out within the context of the regulation. Is that not -- am I not wrong?

WOLF: Yes. We would always like to be able to own our destiny, but the truth is, OK, since 2008 there is now an intersection between public policy and the private sector of the banking, and we work more hand in hand. Sure, we would like Dodd-Frank to be more principle- based but it's rules based. So we're going to have to work with the rules and those rules are being set by the Fed.

[09:40:03] So yes, idealistically I'd love to actually determine everything I'd like to do but that's no longer the case.

COSTELLO: All right.

TASINI: But that was Bernie's position. I just want to make clear. The government should not tell the banks what to do.

COSTELLO: I wish we could go on because this is a fascinating conversation. I could just listen to you guys forever but I must end it now.

TASINI: Thank you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much for dropping by.

WOLF: Thank you for having us on.

COSTELLO: Jonathan Tasini, Robert Wolf, thanks to both of you.

WOLF: Thanks, Jonathan.

COSTELLO: Still -- good, you're still friends.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, new video of Nigeria's missing schoolgirls rekindles international hope and outrage, too. The actions government officials are now taking to bring these girls home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: New CNN reporting is re-igniting efforts in Nigeria to bring home more than 270 kidnapped schoolgirls. This new proof of live video stirring not only hope and anger at the Nigerian government's failure to rescue the girls who were abducted by Boko Haram two years ago.

[09:45:01] The outrage now prompting the Nigeria's Senate to call for an official briefing on where negotiations stand.

More now from CNN's Nima Elbagir.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's the glimmer of hope parents have been waiting for. A video showing 15 of the Chibok girls, sent to negotiators by their captors as proof of life.

CNN obtained the video from a person close to the negotiations to get the girls released, and we shared it with parents of the missing girls. But these young women in the video are only a handful of those girls abducted now two years ago.

April 14th, 2014, 276 school girls taken in the night by Boko Haram gunmen. A few dozen escaped. But since then, there's been only silence.

Despite a global campaign to bring back our girls, two years later, they remain missing. Facing heavy criticism, Nigeria's government remains under pressure to bring them home.

KASHIM SHETTIMA, BORNO STATE GOVERNOR: We believe that the girls are alive, but probably based on security analysis, there might not be -- you cannot get them in one group. They might have been dispersed into several cells.

ELBAGIR: In Nigeria's capital, supporters and families of the missing march to mark the solemn anniversary. Among the demonstrators, Esther Yakubu, her daughter Giuliana was one of those kidnapped. Another news crew showed her our story. She broke down in tears saying she recognized the girls.

ESTHER YAKUBU, MOTHER OF ABDUCTED GIRL IN NIGERIA: I saw the girls. And true they are Chibok girl. I recognized some of them because we are in the same area with them. So I recognize they are the Chibok girls.

ELBAGIR: It's the first sighting of the girls in nearly two years, and after an agonizing wait, families of the missing hope the video is not yet another false lead.

SHETTIMA: We believe that these girls will be found and very soon, too, and be returned to their families.

ELBAGIR (on camera): Two long years and counting. For the families of these missing young women, their return can't come soon enough.

Nima Elbagir, CNN, Abuja.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Unbelievable reporting.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, candidates playing fast and loose with the facts in last night's debates. How accurate were their statements on gun control and the minimum wage?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:52:08] COSTELLO: All right. An unusual event going on right now in New York City. I told you about it earlier in the show. A group of the people who appeared on the "Apprentice," Donald Trump's show are speaking out today and condemning a Trump presidency. This is Kwame Jackson from moments ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KWAME JACKSON, RUNNER UP, "THE APPRENTICE" SEASON 1: Good morning, America. First let me thank Randall Pinkette, Dr. Pinkette for his leadership and his bravery. It's a bold and a big thing to bring us together collectively and share this message and I salute you, brother.

America is at a tipping point in its demographic identity, social contract and fear of economic dislocation. Into that void and vacuum of uncertainty and fear has stepped Mr. Trump. Stoking the flames of our worst demons to the chagrin of our better angels and cherished ideals for a more perfect union.

As a citizen, patriot and leader, it is my duty to use my small platform to speak the truth. Arouse our collective conscious and channel the best version of America that I know is within us all. As one nation, under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. This is no time to run or be silent. It is my turn to stand tall in

the breach and speak loudly at the precipice of fascism. As President Clinton so truthfully said, there is nothing wrong with America that can't be fixed by what's right with America. I believe that in my soul. So let us choose Kennedy over Kardashianism each and every time as a leading nation. Mohammad Ali over McCarthyism.

That is why I defiantly stand up, why I defiantly speak out, and why I defiantly stand before you today. Martin Luther King Junior once said the ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. This is one of those times.

Trump has created a toxic ecosystem in our political discourse. Trump has appealed to the lowest, common denominator of fear, racism and divisiveness in our populace. And this mix is never the path to American progress, i.e., McCarthyism, Jesse Helms or Governor Wallace standing in the schoolhouse door.

Trump does not have the temperament to deal with the sensitivities and diplomacy required on the world stage with volatile regimes in Iran, North Korea, and the threat of ISIS. You don't get into a fist-for- fist boxing match in 2016 global politics.

[09:55:01] Trump's proposals are rooted in fantasy, hyperbole and bombast. Making Mexico pay for its own wall, getting China to do all our bidding based on threats. Renegotiating all treaties with Iran. All because he said so? Really? And he's simply a smarter negotiator who went to Wharton?

Trump has corrupted the Republican Party to its own peril and taken key air time from substantive candidates like John Kasich, while forcing other candidates to join him in the race to the bottom. By banning Muslims from entry to America and building a wall instead of bridges. Either you are draining the swamp in America or you are filling the swamp in America. That swamp being intolerance and hate, and I believe that Trump is filling it.

Trump is not the candidate for America. Words matter. And you incite violence when you cajole --

COSTELLO: All right. So you get the gist here. Donald Trump has responded already. He calls this group of "Apprentice" contestants dissing him today a group of failing wannnabes, and basically he goes onto call them losers.

So we'll have more on this in the next hour of NEWSROOM.

Also Bernie Sanders is in Vatican City. His supporters are there to welcome him. As you can see, this is in Rome. They're wearing shirts with "Rome is Berning" on them. We're live in Vatican City. That's in the next hour of NEWSROOM which starts after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)