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Hillary vs. Bernie; New York Battle. Aired 15-15:30p ET

Aired April 15, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:03]

SGT. RICHARD "DIC" DONOHUE, (RET.), INJURED IN FIREFIGHT WITH BOSTON BOMBERS: And I had over 40 minutes of CPR, 46 blood products. And I had six to eight hours of surgery.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If they hadn't gotten you to the hospital, like, fast enough, would you be here?

DONOHUE: I would not.

GINGRAS (voice-over): Donohue spent two months at Mount Auburn Hospital in Cambridge, determined to rehab and heal. Nearly two years later:

DONOHUE: Right now, this is what I choose to do.

GINGRAS: He put his uniform back on. The transit officer was promoted to sergeant, but his injuries began to take a toll.

DONOHUE: I'm in pain all the time.

GINGRAS (on camera): Makes it hard to do your job?

DONOHUE: It does. It does. It makes you one step slower. And I wouldn't want to put anybody's life or safety in danger.

GINGRAS (voice-over): He's since retired.

DONOHUE: I can't look at the past with bitterness and regret. I can only move forward.

GINGRAS: And that means embracing each day with his family, his 3- year-old son and a second son, due on the anniversary of when he almost lost his life.

Brynn Gingras, CNN, Boston.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Any minute now, presidential front-runner on the Republican side Donald Trump will be taking the stage. This is Upstate New York. We will bring that you obviously as soon as that happens. Meantime, Mr. Trump has been all over New York, railing against

the Republican Party and the "rigged delegate system" that his supporters fear may deny him the nomination. The head of the RNC talking to CNN just a little while ago saying, you know what, this system, it's not broken.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REINCE PRIEBUS, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: It was the same system that put Abraham Lincoln into office. No, I think the system is working, and all the delegates that are bound to the candidates will stay bound to the candidates.

No one is losing any bound delegates whatsoever. We're going to get together. We're going to be unified in Cleveland. I know where there's drama. I know there's going to be work to do. I get it. I'm not, you know, oblivious to the world that I live in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go to the site of the Trump rally.

Jason Carroll is standing by, our CNN national correspondent.

Looks like a pretty packed house there in Plattsburgh, Jason. Talk to me about what you think Trump is going to say.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what we're going to hear is much of what we heard yesterday, Brooke, when we were at another event in Long Island, where he once again did not let up on this whole issue of delegates and what happened to him in Colorado in terms of being shut out of delegates.

We're going to expect him to have something to say about that when he takes the stage just a few minutes from now here in Plattsburgh. As you know, he also wrote about it in an op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal," calling once again the system rigged, calling the delegates double agents.

You know, I spoke to a number of people who are out here. They actually agree with him, Brooke, on this issue. They say that they believe that these rules do need to be changed. But as one of his supporters told me, she said, I do not believe the rules should be changed at this particular time.

As you know, Trump still holding a very commanding lead here in the state. He also got a big boost from "The New York Post." "The New York Post" editorial board endorsing Trump, calling him the rookie candidate, saying at some point they expect him to pivot in terms of the issues, pivot in terms of his mannerisms, translation, become more presidential presidential.

And we have heard it before. We have heard it from his wife. Trump is said he's heard it from his daughter, try to be more presidential. This reminds me of something that I heard Trump say, Brooke, way back in the day, back in February, at a rally in South Carolina. And it really struck me, because told the crowd there, he told them about a story about his father.

His father said, when you're dealing in business, try to smooth over the lumps a little bit more when you're dealing with people. So that's advice he got way back when, when he was dealing in the business world, before he was even running for president.

So, can he make that pivot? I think that remains to be seen -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Smooth over the lumps.

Jason Carroll, thank you.

We will take those pictures as soon as we see Donald Trump for that rally there.

Meantime, let me just bring in our panel, M.J. Lee, CNN politics reporter, Ryan Williams, a former spokesman for Governors Mitt Romney and John Sununu, and Jeff DeWit, Arizona state treasurer and Trump supporters.

So, welcome to all of you.

And just because Jason Carroll just brought up, M.J., let me pivot to you on the "Wall Street Journal" opinion piece that Mr. Trump has just penned, talking again about the system, is it working for him, is it right for the people of the country. What specifically did he say?

M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is Donald Trump going to war against the GOP establishment. He is clearly frustrated by what happened in Colorado. I think there's a growing concern that Ted Cruz is starting to narrow that delegate lead, delegate gap, rather, and Donald Trump in this "Wall Street Journal" op-ed is making the case not only that he is being cheated, but that his supporters and the voters are being cheated.

I will just read one part of that op-ed out loud.

"Let me ask America a question. How has the system been working out for you and your family? I, for one, am not interested in defending a system that for decades has served the interest of political parties at the expense of the people."

[15:05:05]

And I can tell you, Brooke, this is a message that really is resonating in a powerful way among Trump supporters. When I have traveled to places like Upstate New York, Western Pennsylvania, two states where Trump is expecting to do well, I have come across Trump supporters who have said, look, the party is really conspiring to, one, stop Trump from getting the nomination, and, two, somehow stop him from getting the nomination at the convention.

And they have told me, you know, if this is something that happens, then they actually might never support the Republican Party again and would never vote for a Republican again. So, remember, these are the kinds of people that Trump does very well

with, people who are angry at Washington and really believe that there needs to be a change in Washington.

BALDWIN: Wow. So, on that, on the people's passions and how it's resonating in some parts of the country, Jeff is a Trump supporter on the panel.

Let me ask you. With this "Wall Street Journal" piece, he's not on Twitter quite as much anymore. He's again this weekend not doing Sunday shows. Again, we're not seeing, you know, these sort of long, free-flowing news conferences that Mr. Trump has been holding for months and months. Seems like something's changed. The message is the same. But the strategy seems different.

What's going on here, Jeff?

JEFF DEWIT, ARIZONA STATE TREASURER: Well, we're transitioning, obviously, and starting to think about the general. We have heard a lot of talk about being and looking presidential.

And I think everyone has seen that now for quite some time, especially if you saw his family on this channel, you know, a few days ago. But with the delegate system, it is broken and it's a mess. And the Republican Party seems to want to really promote the idea, going back to a year and two years ago, that it was going to be different this time and that people's votes would matter and what the public thought would matter.

And now it seems like they're hitting the in case of glass -- or in case of fire, break glass here switch and saying, OK, forget what we said because we thought you would choose who we told you to choose. And since the public is choosing who we want you to choose, the establishment doesn't like that, and now we're finding out, well, your vote doesn't matter. What really matters is what these -- backroom deals for these delegates is how the system's going to get played.

And they're disenfranchising voters and they're upsetting a lot of people. In Colorado, there were people posting pictures on the Internet of them burning their Republican Party cards, so it's not going to be good for the party and it's not going to be good for us, for victory in the fall.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: You talk to people who aren't aware of the convention process in Colorado and how the delegates are elected and you don't actually go to the polls, and, yes, a lot of folks would agree that that does seem sort of odd or archaic, but the rules are the rules.

And, so, Ryan, I'm just wondering, M.J. says she's talked to people where this has really resonated, the sense that this isn't fair. But how much of this is, this isn't fair and the rules should be changed and I'm right vs. this is whining and he should play by the rules, he knew what he was getting into?

RYAN WILLIAMS, REPUBLICAN CAMPAIGN CONSULTANT: This is nothing more than sour grapes from Trump and his campaign.

The Trump campaign was made aware of the rules, as every other campaign were, when they were passed months ago. There's different rules for each state. It's up to the campaigns. It's their responsibility to understand the rules and play to win.

Trump is not winning right now because he's not put together an effective campaign that can understand the rules.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: What do you mean he's not winning? He seems to be doing pretty well right now.

WILLIAMS: Well, look, he's been winning at the polls, but in terms of this other part of the process, electing who the delegates are, his campaign was caught completely flat-footed.

Stories out of Colorado have his campaign handing out misinformation, typos, the wrong delegates on their slate. This is poor organization. For a guy like Trump who has based his candidacy on being a great businessman, a great deal-maker, someone who can take the fight to Hillary Clinton, his campaign is now being exposed as a paper tiger, a weak effort that can't organize and is not in any position to carry the Republican Party in November.

BALDWIN: OK, let me move along. We were talking about Donald Trump's campaign manager. We talked to his criminal defense attorney yesterday now that we know all the charges have been dropped against Corey Lewandowski with regard to that simple battery charge.

He revealed something about a run-in with the former Breitbart reporter Michelle Fields at that Trump rally in March. Here he was on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Again, I reached out to Michelle and I have provided my phone records to show that and never once at any time in this incident has she ever contacted the campaign directly. And that's the disappointing part, because she had an opportunity to clear this up.

And if she wanted to have a conversation, she could have reached out to me directly or the office. That never took place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, M.J., I just wanted to put a button on all of this as we were talking when this was all coming down yesterday. So we have learned that he did reach out to Michelle Fields.

LEE: Yes, Corey Lewandowski is now saying that he did once try to contact Michelle Fields after he learned that there were some questions being raised about what happened that night, but that he couldn't get through to her and that she never contacted him. So this is a little bit of, you know, putting the responsibility on

her, you know, if she had called me back or she had tried to contact me back, maybe that apology would have happened.

Yesterday, we were talking a lot about whether that apology might be public, but it seems like his attorney believes that that is a wait- and-see kind of move right now because they want to know if Michelle Fields will take more action.

[15:10:05]

BALDWIN: OK.

And let me just finally end on something a little lighter, because it's Friday. And we have been watching all these candidates crisscross, you know, New York. They have been at Jewish delis. They have been eating pizza.

Speaking of, Governor Kasich was on "Seth Meyers" last night. And, listen, this is sort of like, you know, what you don't do. This is so very egregious to New Yorkers, using forks. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You heard about the pizza, right?

SETH MEYERS, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS": What happened with the pizza?

KASICH: God, I -- you know, it was so hot, and I made a terrible mistake.

MEYERS: Oh, no.

KASICH: I pick up a fork.

MEYERS: Come on, man.

KASICH: I know.

MEYERS: What's wrong with your politicians, that you don't know how to eat pizza?

KASICH: Well, it was so hot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Ryan, Jeff, what is this, like pizza eating 101? I don't know if this moves the dial whatsoever for John Kasich. I don't know if that's sort of irrelevant by now. Ryan, what do you think?

WILLIAMS: Look, food faux pas have been an issue with campaigns for years. I remember when I worked for Governor Romney he got dinged once for peeling the cheese off his pizza. He was criticized for that. There is always the debate over which cheese steak to get in Philadelphia. So campaign food issues are nothing new. And they're kind of a sideshow that pops up every election season.

BALDWIN: Jeff, you get the last word.

DEWIT: Well, I guarantee you won't see Donald Trump using a fork to eat his pizza. And with what Ted Cruz said about New York values, and now John Kasich and the fork, forget about it. Donald Trump deserves about 100 percent of the New York vote.

BALDWIN: Forget about it.

Jeff DeWit, M.J. Lee, Ryan Williams, thank you all so much.

Coming up next, here in New York, the gloves were definitely off on that debate stage in Brooklyn, Senator Sanders, Secretary Clinton trading barbs, insults, sarcasm days before the all-important New York primary. We will talk about some of the special moments last night and what is at stake with our very own Michael Smerconish.

Also ahead, at least six former "Apprentice" contestants joined the never Trump movement. We will talk to one of them, why he likes Trump as a person, but doesn't exactly want him in the White House.

And live pictures, speaking of -- we're keeping a close eye on this event there in Plattsburgh, New York, anticipating the big rally with Donald Trump. We will take it live as soon as we see him.

Stay right here. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:08]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (VT-I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Does Secretary Clinton have the experience and the intelligence to be the president? Of course she does. But I do question her judgment.

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: President Obama trusted my judgment enough to ask me to be secretary of state.

QUESTION: Do you regret your advocacy for the crime bill?

CLINTON: My husband has apologized. He was the president who actually signed it.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: But what about you, Senator?

SANDERS: Secretary Clinton called them out. Oh, my goodness, they must have been really crushed by this.

QUESTION: My question was about the transcripts of the speeches to Goldman Sachs.

CLINTON: When everybody does it, OK, will do it.

SANDERS: Secretary Clinton, you just heard her. Everybody else does it, she will do it. And we will release our taxes. Jane does our taxes. We have been a little bit busy lately. You will excuse us.

CLINTON: Well, you know, there are a lot of copy machines around.

(CROSSTALK)

SANDERS: Unfortunately, I remain one of the poorer members of the United States Senate. And that's what that will show.

CLINTON: If Senator Sanders doesn't agree with how you are approaching something, then you are a member of the establishment.

SANDERS: Interesting comment, but you didn't answer the question.

CLINTON: I did.

SANDERS: No, you didn't.

(CROSSTALK)

CLINTON: Yes, I did.

SANDERS: I think we're going to win this nomination, to tell you the truth.

(CROSSTALK)

CLINTON: This is great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's talk politics.

CNN political commentator, host of CNN's "SMERCONISH," Mr. Michael Smerconish, always great to have our Friday dates.

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you.

BALDWIN: I mean, first of all, we were just chatting. Talk about a back and forth. Like, I was riveted, every second.

And at one point, Wolf's like stop screaming over one another so people at home can hear you.

But the bit where Dana -- kudos to you, Dana Bash, for really pressing Secretary Clinton on why not release the transcripts. What do you think is at play here?

SMERCONISH: I think she doesn't have a good answer. And for me, it's reminiscent of Donald Trump not releasing his tax returns, although that flame seems to have been turned down on him. BALDWIN: Yes.

SMERCONISH: People don't seem to be demanding it the way that they should.

And my view of both issues is, sooner or later, they must reveal that information. So why not get to it sooner and the longer that this is allowed to metastasize, the more significant I think the concerns as to what could possibly do in those speech transcripts?

I think she's got to do it. And she should do it sooner than later.

BALDWIN: You mentioned Trump. To his point, listening, he's been saying the system is rigged, I'm curious, though, do you think American nominating systems, do you think they're dying a slow death?

SMERCONISH: I hope they are, because they need to. Look at my home state. Boy, get ready for Pennsylvania, after we get through New York on Tuesday, because Donald Trump is complaining about Colorado and he's saying that there was really no direct participation.

BALDWIN: We don't go voting in Colorado. It's delegates.

SMERCONISH: Right. Well, in Pennsylvania, it's a beauty contest; 54 of the 71 delegates are absolutely unbound. Donald Trump could win Pennsylvania by a landslide and roughly two-thirds of those delegates can go do whatever they choose on that first ballot.

They're not even bound on ballot number one.

BALDWIN: He has a point.

SMERCONISH: Yes, he really -- he does have a point.

Now, to Ted Cruz's point, these are the rules. There's no mystery. None of this was changed seemingly with an eye toward Donald Trump, because when Colorado changed its rules, no one expected -- you know me -- I'm the last one who expected we'd be hear having a conversation about Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: Right.

SMERCONISH: So it wasn't with malice of forethought about him, but yes, a lot of change.

And can I say one other thing about the rules?

BALDWIN: Yes.

SMERCONISH: I want to say something nice about the Trumps.

Give me that opportunity, because I thought that Anderson's town hall with the Trump family was the best moment of the campaign for Donald Trump. And I am sympathetic to Eric and Ivanka having to navigate the New York rules. It's B.S. that you have to eight months in advance change your determination? That is ridiculous. BALDWIN: So there you go.

SMERCONISH: Yes, thanks.

BALDWIN: With that said, if you don't around sticking around, Donald Trump has just taken the stage. Oftentimes, he makes news off the top of these rallies.

[15:20:04]

Let's just -- let's eavesdrop for a second.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What's happening, we're going to stop it, folks. We're going to bring back jobs to New York state. We're going to bring them back fast, very, very fast.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: You know what I have been doing when I'm going around the state?

And we have had big -- we were in Albany, in Rochester, in Rome, our Rome, as opposed to the other Rome, right? But -- and you look at the numbers. And what I have been doing, I have been asking people, give me some numbers. Let me see how we're doing. How are we doing up in Plattsburgh?

So here's some numbers. United States industrial production, right, declined for the past seven straight months. Our GDP is like zero. If in China their GDP dips below 7, 8, 9 percent, you know what they do? It's like a major catastrophe. Ours is zero. We're down to practically nothing.

Here's a strong-looking guy right there. Yes. That's OK. That's my kind of a guy. He's got the flag. He's got the whole deal. Good job. Good job. Only in America, folks, only in America. Thank you.

AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!

TRUMP: Thank you. That's true.

The number of people with a job in Plattsburgh has been -- has really -- over the last 15 years, it's really gone down. There are nearly 3,000 fewer people right now working in your community than they had in 2000. Not good. Come on, folks, what's wrong here? What's wrong?

You know what's wrong. You need leadership. That's what's wrong, because you got the right people. We have got the best people. The unemployment rate in Plattsburgh right now is higher today substantially than it was just six months ago. So who left?

BALDWIN: All right, we're going to pull away.

Whoa, a little wobbly camera job. Let's pull away, Plattsburgh, New York, Donald Trump. Listen, he's been clear. He's been crisscrossing all over the state New York ahead of the all-important Tuesday primary.

Michael Smerconish has been good around to stick around with me.

Finish my sentence.

SMERCONISH: OK.

BALDWIN: If Donald Trump doesn't win the nomination in a contested convention fight, blank?

SMERCONISH: Gotcha.

You know that line that says, ooh, you got me on this almost. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. Just change female, put in Donald Trump, because I can't see the scene where he walks out on that stage with someone else's hand and raises it in the air for the victory shot for 2016. I just can't imagine that, not in your scenario.

BALDWIN: Not in our scenario.

Final question on Ted Cruz. You know, last night they had this big GOP gala while all the Democrats were in Brooklyn. They were all eating -- this is a $1,000-a-pop plate here in the city. And Ted Cruz gets up. All the different candidates get up and they speak. And Ted Cruz gets up there and actually we have just a little sound. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: To join our team to stand as one, to stand united. And let me know. The way we win a general election, right now, if you look at the national polls...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I mean, you know where I'm going with this. Do people realize somebody is speaking?

SMERCONISH: I speak to a lot of groups. That's my worst nightmare when I'm speaking to a professional group.

BALDWIN: Anyone's worst nightmare. It's like clinking, talking, waving, not listening. That doesn't bode well for him.

SMERCONISH: No. Tuesday is going to be a tough day for Ted Cruz. Tomorrow will be better for Ted Cruz in Wyoming. Enjoy it Saturday and Sunday and Monday, Ted, because Tuesday's probably -- you're going to take some licks.

BALDWIN: OK, see you tomorrow morning, 9:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.

SMERCONISH: Thanks for that.

BALDWIN: Michael Smerconish had something good to say about Donald Trump today. How about that?

SMERCONISH: Yes. You like that.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, at least six former contestants on "The Apprentice" coming out against the man who created the hit reality TV show, saying some of them really like Mr. Trump, but they say he's not fit to be president. We will talk to one of them live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:44]

BALDWIN: You know, one of the criticisms that's been leveled at Donald Trump his entire campaign, that it's just one big reality TV show.

It's often an allusion to his run for 14 seasons as the star of NBC's "The Apprentice." But, today, six co-stars of that show are coming out to tell Trump, yes, you're entertaining, yes, you're a good businessman, and, no, you should not be elected president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We stand united as former candidates on "The Apprentice" not to denounce Donald Trump, the man, but to denounce Donald Trump, the presidential candidate's message.

TARA DOWDELL, POLITICAL CONSULTANT: You don't make America great by dividing people. You don't make America great by creating an environment where people think it's acceptable to physically harm someone exercising their constitutional rights.

KWAME JACKSON, FORMER "APPRENTICE" CONTESTANT: So, let us choose Kennedy over Kardashianism each and every time as a leading nation.

Muhammad Ali over McCarthyism, that is why I defiantly stand up, why I defiantly speak out, and why I defiantly stand before you today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, one of "The Apprentice" alums in support of this message. He's James Sun. He was the runner-up on season six of the show.

James, nice to have you on.

JAMES SUN, FORMER "APPRENTICE" CONTESTANT: Hi, Brooke. How you doing?

BALDWIN: I am doing well.

Let me ask you, why did all of you "Apprentice" contestants, you know, decide to come together and to do this, to speak out about Trump as a group?