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A Shouting Match With Sanders And Clinton; Democrats Move On After Contentious Debate; Clinton And Sanders Spar Over Gun Control; Clinton Defends Parts Of Crime Bill; Sanders' Campaign Speaks On Vatican Visit; Gregory Meeks For Hillary Clinton; Meeks Speaks On Last Night's Debate; Both Party Chairs Live This Hour; Major Earthquake Hits Japan. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 15, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Does Secretary Clinton have the experience and the intelligence to be a president, of course she does. But I do question her judgment.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, the people of New York voted for me twice and President Obama trusted my judgment enough to ask me to be secretary of state for the United States.

I have supported the fight for 15.

SANDERS: I am sure a lot of people are very surprised to learn that you supported raising the minimum raise 15 bucks an hour.

CLINTON: You know, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait, wait.

SANDERS: That is just not accurate.

CLINTON: Come on, I have stood --

SANDERS: Folks, --

CLINTON: -- on the debate stage --

SANDERS: -- folks, can I --

CLINTON: -- with Senator Sanders eight prior times.

SANDERS: Excuse me, folks, --

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: If you're both screaming at each other, the viewers won't be able to hear either of you.

CLINTON: I have gotten more votes than anybody running, 9.6 million at the last count.

SANDERS: We're going to win here in New York. Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. And wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

It's the day after the big debate. The campaigns are doing damage control today after a rather contentious back and forth between the two Democratic candidates for president of the United States.

As for the candidates themselves, Hillary Clinton stopped at a senior center in East Harlem in New York earlier this morning. But later, she heads to California for a fund-raiser that also includes George Clooney.

Senator Bernie Sanders, he's not in New York at all today. Instead, he's at the Vatican for a conference. He spoke about climate change and the need for a moral economy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: At a time when so few have so much and so many have so little, we must reject the foundations of this contemporary economy as immoral and unsustainable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Senator Sanders is not expected to meet with the pope while he's in Rome.

Meanwhile, here's the latest poll ahead of Tuesday's primary. The "Wall Street Journal"-NBC News Maris poll has Secretary Clinton holding a 17-point lead over Senator Sanders. You see it right there, 57 to 40.

And here's where the race stands on the delegate count. Secretary Clinton made a point during the debate to talk about her lead in pledge delegates. She leads right now by 229 pledge delegates. She has a lot more super delegates, as you can see in that chart.

Let's talk about the debate, the tone, the issues and a whole lot more. Joining us from New York is Tad Devine, Senior Media Advisor for the Bernie Sanders' campaign. Thanks very much, Tad, for joining us. And quickly explain why Bernie Sanders decided to go to the Vatican today, crucial day before the New York primary on Tuesday, instead of campaigning in New York?

TAD DEVINE, SENIOR MEDIA ADVISOR, BERNIE SANDERS CAMPAIGN: Well, Wolf, he was delighted to receive the invitation of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences. He understood this would be a great opportunity to talk about an issue that he cares deeply about which is the issue of income, wealth and equality.

Bernie is a huge admirer of Francis and the pope's message both on this issue of moral economy and also the pope's commitment to dealing with another issue that Bernie cares about which is how we tackle climate change. So, yes, we were out of state for one day but he'll will be back tomorrow. And he's going to campaign hard through the primary here on Tuesday. And we think he's close strong elsewhere, and we think we're close strong here in New York.

BLITZER: So, it doesn't suggest, to you or to your colleagues, that he's basically -- because the suspicion is he's basically given up on New York, given Hillary Clinton's impressive lead in the polls.

DEVINE: Far from it, Wolf. You know, we're going to fight here for every vote. Yes, she has great advantages in her home state. And, yes, she has significant lead in the polling. And, yes it's much more difficult when we compete in systems where independents are not allowed to vote. We get that.

But Bernie's going to work hard. We've have an event tomorrow. We'll be here Sunday. We're going to campaign for the votes. And I think, you know, we've closed strongly elsewhere and I think we can close strongly here as well.

BLITZER: As you know, Senator Sanders, last night, promised to release his 2014 tax return today. When is he going to do that?

DEVINE: Later this afternoon, the campaign will release those returns.

BLITZER: And what about earlier years? I understand he wants to do that but they are not going to be released today. When will the earlier years be released?

DEVINE: Well, I hope soon, Wolf. Right now, they're going to finish there. Literally, Jane Sanders, who does the income taxes in their -- in their family, is going to finish them hopefully before the deadline and that'll get released. And then, we'll look back.

Listen, Bernie's very happy to be transparent. I think when people see his tax returns -- and, by the way, he's had a disclosure as a member of the United States Senate, a significant financial disclosure as a candidate for president, significant financial disclosures. So, it's not like there's been no opportunity to take a look at his personal finances.

[13:05:09] But in addition to that, in the sake of transparency, he will release back taxes as well.

We know would hope, that in spirit, Senator Clinton would join in and release the transcripts of the many paid speeches she gave like Goldman Sachs and to Verizon, the board of directors of Verizon. You know, we'd like to see what's in the speeches.

BLITZER: There were some other contentious exchanges, as we all know, last night in the debate in Brooklyn, on Israel, on guns. Senator Sanders voted to shield gun manufacturers, gun store owners from liability cases, presumably like Sandy Hook, the massacre that took place there. He also supports the families right to go ahead, though, and sue. So, which is it? Should they able to sue manufacturers for damages or not?

DEVINE: Well, Wolf, you know, that case involving those families, I believe yesterday, did move forward in the courts. And Bernie believes that, you know, if there are bad actors in this process, whether they'd be gun sellers or manufactures, they should be held accountable. He's currently signed on a piece of legislation that is in the Congress today that would provide that opportunity.

He has, in the past, supported other bills. He did so because as a member from Vermont, you know, there are a lot of small gun shops in his state that felt they would be impacted very adversely by that. And also, that bill contained some positive messages as well.

So, this is just a gross mischaracterization of his record that he hasn't been strong on these issues. Yes, representing a rural state, he had some disagreements. But, for the most part, he's been very strong and that's why the NRA, itself, says Bernie Sanders is no friend of the NRA.

BLITZER: You've been involved in Democratic politics, Tad, for a long time. Were you surprised at how tough Senator Sanders was on the Israeli government, last night in that debate, in criticizing the Israeli response to the Hamas rocket attacks coming in from Gaza during the war in 2014?

DEVINE: No, Wolf, I was not surprised because I've heard Bernie say that before. Listen, I think he made it very clear last night that he, as president, would stand shoulder to shoulder with our strongest ally in the Middle East, the nation of Israel, the only democracy there.

He has made it very clear that his own personal experiences, including living (INAUDIBLE) when he was a young man, have given him tremendous insight to the security issues, as it relates to the small nation like Israel surrounded by so many enemies.

So, Bernie Sanders is prepared to stand shoulder to shoulder with them. Having said that, he will also, I think, as president of the United States, have the unique opportunity, perhaps, to move forward the quest for peace in the Middle East. It's a difficult challenge.

Secretary of state, John Kerry, has been a tremendous force in attempting to do this. And, of course, even when you put everything you've got into it, it's still, unfortunately, has been stymied.

So, listen, Bernie has been honest. He's been straightforward about his views on this topic and many others. He's not going to change his views no matter what audience he is in front of, even if it might mean not winning as many votes as he otherwise may have.

BLITZER: Ted Devine, thanks very much for joining us.

DEVINE: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Let's talk a little bit about the Clinton campaign right now and the reaction to some of the points in last night's CNN Democratic presidential debate. New York Congressman, Gregory Meeks, is joining us. He's a Hillary Clinton supporter. Congressman, thank you very much for joining us.

REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D), NEW YORK, SENIOR MEMBER, HOUSE FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: Good being with you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Do you think Hillary is -- Clinton is going to really win overwhelmingly, I assume, in New York, based on all the polls, right?

MEEKS: Well, we're going to work hard. You know, polls are polls. You know, I know this weekend, I'll be back home working very hard. Hillary is working very hard, taking no vote for granted.

BLITZER: Is it possible he could stun her and you and win in New York?

MEEKS: I don't -- I don't think so. I think New York knows Hillary. She was our senator for eight years. She did a great job. We re- elected her overwhelmingly. In fact, we were happy that she went to become -- went on to become the secretary of state, but we were sad to lose a great senator.

BLITZER: The 1994 crime bill that was signed into law by her husband, President Bill Clinton, she said she's now sorry for the unintended consequences of that bill, how it's impacted minorities, African- American, especially African-American young men. Is that good enough? Because she didn't really say it was a mistake to vote, she didn't vote, but to support that legislation.

MEEKS: But, Wolf, what you just said is exactly right. Only one of the two candidates had a vote. So, if anybody should apologize, --

BLITZER: Because he was a Congressman, Bernie Sanders.

MEEKS: That's right.

BLITZER: She was the first -- she was the first lady.

MEEKS: We should be talking to Bernie Sanders about apologizing for his vote. Hillary Clinton didn't have a vote.

BLITZER: Do you think --

MEEKS: He did.

BLITZER: -- Bernie Sanders should apologize?

MEEKS: Well, I mean, they talk about 1994 as if it Hillary's responsibility. It was, clearly, his responsibility. So, if he thinks that was a bad vote, then it was bad judgment on his part.

But let me say, we have to take the whole thing into context. What was taking place in 1994, the exorbitant crime rate, et cetera, that was going on.

[13:10:05] Now, we do see at the bills, because I don't know of any bill that comes out of Congress that's perfect, that sometimes there are unintended consequences. And what Hillary has said, there has been unintended consequences and we've got to fix those. And that's why her very first statement, when she declared the run for presidency, was fixing the criminal justice system.

BLITZER: You heard Senator Sanders, last night, say her use of the word, way back then, that word, super predators. He said that -- and referring to the crime bill. He said that was, in his words, obviously racist on her part, the use of that phrase, super predator. Do you agree?

MEEKS: Absolutely not. If you think about the Clintons and the Clinton administration in the 1990s, there is a reason, Wolf, why 88 percent in 1996 voted for Bill Clinton. Now, if they thought he was a racist, don't tell me that you think African-Americans are not smart enough not to vote for someone who has their interest. There was a reason why Toni Morrison said that Bill Clinton was the first black president.

So, no way should you ever classify or should anyone think the Clintons ever thought of African-Americans in a racist manner.

And the fact of the matter is, at that same time period, if you look at the economics that Mr. Senator Sanders talks about all the time, that was a one when disparity -- income disparity was beginning to decline. Unemployment for unemploy -- unemployment for African- Americans were declining. So, there is no way or no how, no stretch of the imagination that one could use to say the Clintons were racists.

BLITZER: You're very passionate on this.

Let's talk about guns in New York city. She made a controversial statement and Senator Sanders really went after her. The other day, she said, most of the guns that are used in crimes and violence and killings in New York come from out of state. And the state that has the highest per capita number of those guns that end up committing crimes in New York come from Vermont. Was that an accurate statement from her -- from her perspective? Because there's been a lot of fact checking and only a tiny, tiny number of the guns used to commit violent crimes in New York come from Vermont.

MEEKS: Yes, but as he said last night and as your fact checkers have said on CNN, most of the guns come from outside of New York from states that are lax on gun control.

BLITZER: But there are a lot of other states that are lax, from your perspective, on gun control, bigger states than Vermont.

MEEKS: That is true. But -- and there's no way to directly track, et cetera. And your fact checkers said they couldn't say true or false. Their answer was, which I agree on that, it's complicated. And so, I think that's the best answer to that.

It is clear, though, that if you look at the laws in Vermont, with reference to guns, as compared to the laws in New York state, there's substantial difference. And that Senator Sanders had vote to delay gun background checks which is for the NRA. And the NRA praised him for sticking up for their biggest bill. He talked about 1988. Clearly, he got elected in 1990. He must have given them what they needed because they said their biggest bill was about to come out and he voted to stop the background checks and the time limitations that they needed at that time.

BLITZER: Congressman, thank you.

MEEKS: Good to be with you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks very much. Gregory Meeks of New York.

And we have both party chairs live this hour as well, the Republican Congressional Committee chair, Reince Priebus, and the Democratic National Committee chair, Debbie Wasserman Schultz. They'll be joining me later this hour for separate one-on-one interviews. Stick around for that.

And this just in. We're getting some breaking news out of Japan. Another major earthquake just hit Japan, a 7.0 earthquake this time. We're gathering information that's coming in. We're going to bring you much more right after this.

[13:14:04]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:17:52] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news just coming into CNN. Yet another major earthquake hit Japan. This time a magnitude seven, a 7.0, in the southern part of the country. This is the same region where a 6.2 magnitude earthquake hit late Thursday. That according to the U.S. Geological Survey.

A tsunami advisory has just been issued for parts of Japan. Very disturbing developments coming in. We're going to get some more information, update you. In fact, Karen Maginnis is standing by.

Karen, what else do we know 'about this magnitude 7.0 earthquake that has just hit japan?

KAREN MAGINNIS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: What we understand, Wolf, is that yesterday the earthquake that we saw then, that were also fatality earthquake related, now we're looking at this is probably the prime earthquake. That's my description. The others were foreshocks, meaning they were leading up to this 7.0 magnitude earthquake. It has been revised. But what makes this especially dangerous is that this is only ten kilometers deep. That's about six miles deep.

This is in a heavily or densely populated area. The closest largest city is Nagasaki. And this is in Kumamoto. But they are saying they also felt this as far away as Tokyo. Now, Tokyo is more towards the north, a densely populated area at just ten kilometers deep, heavily populated area, and we're looking at the potential for a catastrophic infrastructure damage. There you can see the video beside us as to what happened. There is a tsunami warning that has been issued. Very dramatic pictures that we're taking a look at coming out of southern Japan.

BLITZER: So, Karen, just to be precise, the other day's - on Thursday a 6.2 magnitude earthquake struck Japan. This is a 7.0. That was a - that was not - this is not an aftershock, as they call it. That was a preliminary - what was the phrase you used as far as the earlier 6.2?

[13:20:07] MAGINNIS: Wolf, they're referred to a foreshocks.

BLITZER: A foreshock.

MAGINNIS: Something that is leading up to the primary earthquake, 7.0. Just about 30 minutes ago we were saying 7.1. USGS said 7.1 magnitude. But I think we need to focus less on what the magnitude of this is - certainly that is critical - but the fact that this is so shallow, I was speaking with CNN International and they were interested in the description of what a shallow earthquake means. And it would be like if you were sitting on a bed and someone is shaking the top of the bed, you would definitely feel that more significantly than if someone were underneath the bed shaking it. So the deeper you go, if you had a more substantial earthquake, you definitely would feel the impact of that.

But this is also a very densely populated area and - highly developed. And we're looking at the potential for just devastating damage to infrastructure across this region. Ten kilometers deep, six miles deep, the equivalent, and that is especially considered a shallow earthquake. You see a lot of South American earthquakes, very notorious area where they have significant earthquakes. A lot of those are 30 kilometers deep or about 18 or 19 miles deep or maybe 40 kilometers deep. That's very substantial. So the fact that we've got this substantial earthquake, a major earthquake, a 7.0, at ten kilometers deep, and there you can see some of the damage already, some of the pictures that we're getting associated with this earthquake that happened within the last hour to hour and a half, Wolf, this is significant. And as I mentioned, there have been about - I think I counted about 18 foreshocks. And yesterday one of those foreshocks was deadly.

Back to you.

BLITZER: How do we know that this 7.0 also is not a foreshock and more could potentially be expected?

MAGINNIS: That is a good question. I would guess that yesterday we perceived that the earthquake that turned out to be damaging there, as well as fatal, we probably perceived that that was the primary earthquake. We will see probably additional aftershocks from this. And some of them could be equal to that earthquake. I suspect that we'll see some that come very close. But you're right, at this point it's hard to tell, but just from historically speaking, that's what this particular earthquake looks like, this 7.0. And as I mentioned, the USGS has revised that, at least one time. Now they're measuring it at 7.0.

BLITZER: Karen, stand by. We're going to stay on top of the breaking news. Another major earthquake has struck Japan, 7.0. That's coming up. We'll stay on top of the breaking news.

We'll also get back to the race for the White House. Much more right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:27:33] BLITZER: The breaking news coming into CNN right now. Yet another major earthquake just hit Japan. This time a 7.0 in the southern part of the country. This is the same region where a 6.2 magnitude quake hit late Thursday. That according to the U.S. Geological Survey. A tsunami advisory has been issued for parts of Japan and the other islands. Right now we're now - we've also now learned that the advisory - the tsunami advisory had been issued, but we're just learning, as we're speaking right now, that the advisory has been lifted. That's good knew. We'll continue to follow the breaking news story, bring you updates as we get them. Stay with us for that.

In the meantime, let's get back to the race for the White House here in the United States. With time to New York's critical primaries winding down, the candidates, they are dialing up their attacks. On CNN's Democratic debate stage last night, Hillary Clinton appeared to paint Senator Bernie Sanders as an idealist with empty promises, while characterizing herself as someone who can get things done.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The free college offer, you know, my late father said, if somebody promises you something for free, read the fine print, the real (ph) cost.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are not a country that has the courage to stand up to big money and do what has to be done for the working families of this country. This is a global environmental crisis of unprecedented urgency.

CLINTON: It's easy to diagnose the problem. It's harder to do something about the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: On the Republican side, Donald Trump feeling confident in his home state of New York, and perhaps nationwide, as a new poll reveals his lead is actually widening right now. With me to discuss all of this and more, Democratic strategist Jamal Simmons, CNN political commentator, the conservative writer, Mary Katharine Ham, and Trump surrogate Scottie Nell Hughes. She's with USA Radio Networks.

Guys, thanks very much for joining us.

Jamal, who won that debate last night?

JAMAL SIMMONS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Nobody won that debate last night, Wolf. I'm not sure how long this campaign is going to go on. It just seems like we are making the same points over and over again. Secretary Clinton - it's interesting, this feels like she's not even trying to compete for the Bernie voters anymore because she keeps making the point about, well, you know, somebody offers you something for free, it means that, you know, you've got to watch yourself. Young people don't really want to hear that. They want to hear big, aspirational visions. And it seems as if Hillary Clinton is not even trying to compete for those votes. She's going to maximize the vote she has, African-Americans, older voters, and try to get those voters out so she can win the primary, get the math and then worry about wooing the Sanders' voters later.

[13:30:13] BLITZER: You agree, Mary Katharine?