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Candidates Gear Up for New York Showdown; Trump Ramps Up Delegate Rule Attacks; High Court Takes Up Obama Immigration Plan; Immigration Protests Underway In Washington. Aired 9-9:30a ET
Aired April 18, 2016 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[09:00:11] CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, New York ready to vote. And the GOP frontrunner ready to fight the system.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have a system that's rigged, we have a system that's broken.
REINCE PRIEBUS, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: You need to be able to play within the confines of the rules.
COSTELLO: Why the GOP rule book may be the most interesting read in politics right now.
Also, Democrats dash around New York.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let's have a record- breaking turnout on Tuesday.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: God bless you, Staten Island.
COSTELLO: But money talks. And even George Clooney calls the amount of cash in politics obscene.
Plus, earthquake outbreak. Major quakes in Ecuador, in Japan. Now a race to save survivors.
Let's talk. Live in CNN NEWSROOM.
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COSTELLO: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thanks so much for joining me. Get ready for a New York showdown. We're just hours away from tomorrow's critical primary. Today the candidates are barnstorming the state to try and sway voters. First up, the Republicans.
Ted Cruz sweeping all of Wyoming's 14 delegates over the weekend, fueling Donald Trump's claims that the delegate system is rigged. All of this as a behind-the-scenes battle brews between top GOP operatives within the RNC. Plus Bernie Sanders bashes Clinton's on her ties to big money. But
Clinton is dancing around the insults and settling her sights on the state she calls home.
We are covering all of this like only CNN can with our team of political reporters. Let's begin, though, with the heated feud between Donald Trump and the RNC. Trump now warning the big bosses of a rough July unless the delegate rules change.
Let's get right to CNN's Jason Carroll. Good morning.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol. You and I both know these rules are not going to change, at least any time soon. So what we have is this impasse between Donald Trump and the RNC. Trump saying that the system is rigged. The RNC chairman saying that the system is not rigged, simply saying that Trump needs to do a better job at his delegate ground game.
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TRUMP: We have a system that's rigged. We have a system that's crooked. We have this delegate system, which is a sham.
CARROLL (voice-over): Donald Trump doubling down on his war with the RNC and continuing to criticize Ted Cruz's ground game in the race toward 1237 delegates.
TRUMP: The fact that you've taken all these people out and wining them and dining them, nobody does that stuff better than me. I just don't want to do it.
CARROLL: The frontrunner tweeting over the weekend, "Lying Ted Cruz can't get the votes. I am millions ahead of him, so he has to get his delegates from the Republican bosses. It won't work." Cruz responding, tweeting that over 1.3 million people voted in five contests against Trump, #nowhining.
PRIEBUS: I find it to be rhetoric and hyperbole.
CARROLL: And RNC Chairman Reince Priebus explaining that the RNC can't alter the rules between now and the convention and that it's up to each state to decide the rules.
PRIEBUS: The majority of delegates is the goal, and you need to be able to play within the confines of the rules to make sure that you get there.
CARROLL: Trump's complaints coming on the heels of Ted Cruz's sweeping win in Wyoming, a state where delegates are won through a convention not a primary. Cruz was the only candidate to attend the convention and aggressively campaign in the state.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Wyoming matters. We're in a battle, a nationwide battle for delegates.
(END VIDEOTAPE) CARROLL: And at 12:00 noon, Trump will be meeting with the group called the National Diversity Coalition for Trump. He certainly needs to do a better job at reaching out to minority communities as well as women voters.
As for the state of New York, Carol, you know, he is way up in the polls here, expecting a win here in the state and going forward, he is saying that despite his problems and criticisms that he has with the delegate system, he expects to have the amount of delegates needed to become the presumptive nominee by the time that California primary is over -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right. Jason Carroll, reporting live this morning from the Trump Tower here in New York City.
And while Donald Trump rips the Republican delegate system, Ted Cruz is looking ahead to the convention. Here is what he said on "Good Morning America" moments ago.
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CRUZ: I'll have a ton of delegates. He'll have a ton of delegates. And it's going to be a battle in Cleveland to see who can get to a majority. You can't get the nomination without earning a majority of the delegates elected by the people. And I believe Donald's highest total will be on that first ballot and he will go steadily down because Donald cannot win. And we don't want to nominate someone who is a loser.
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COSTELLO: Earlier this morning, Trump tweeted, quote, "Lying Ted Cruz can't win with the voters so he has to sell himself to the bosses. I am millions of votes ahead. Hillary would destroy him."
[09:05:05] Let's bring in CNN's Phil Mattingly to talk more about this. Good morning.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Well, this actually goes deeper than Ted Cruz and Donald Trump. Who would have thought, right? This actually goes into the center of the Republican National Committee. Over the weekend, top officials trading e-mails back and forth, attacking one another about a meeting this week between top RNC officials down in Florida.
Now that meeting is all about how to draft the rules for the convention. And this obviously has become all the more important as we look ahead to what is almost certainly going to be an open convention. One individual wanting -- start talking about how those rules will be set up now, another saying we need to wait. Reince Priebus weighing in on "STATE OF THE UNION."
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PRIEBUS: I don't think it's a good idea for us next week, I mean before the convention, to make serious rules changes or recommendations of changes right now. I think we're in a politically charged environment. I think it's too complicated. I think that the RNC Rules Committee, going forward with making rules amendment suggestions is -- it is not a good idea. Because actually, we can't actually change anything. It's up to the delegates at the convention. So the recommendations, I think, just confuse people. I think it's a bad idea.
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MATTINGLY: Now, Carol, obviously, Reince Priebus pointing out that these would just be recommendations. But the committee does meet this week. And what they say will have an impact on that convention. Obviously if you look at the convention and the people that are planning for that convention, Ted Cruz -- it's very interesting to dig in on his strategy. No longer is he talking about reaching that magic 1237 number before Cleveland. It's all about Cleveland.
And so you look at his team and what they've done leading up to this point. Now obviously for Ted Cruz it was initially about winning states top line, Iowa, Texas, places like that. Wisconsin just a couple of weeks ago. But what we've seen over the last two weeks has been what he's been doing behind the scenes on the ground that's had a major impact, winning delegates in places like North Dakota, in Wyoming, in Colorado. But even beyond that, Carol.
States that he lost, states like Georgia, states like South Carolina, states like Florida, where his team has been operating behind the scenes to elect delegates that are loyal to Ted Cruz. Now those delegates on that first ballot, they'll be voting for Donald Trump, Carol. But if this is an open convention and it moves forward, then all of a sudden you have Ted Cruz loyal delegates that are no longer bound to Donald Trump and that's where Ted Cruz strikes.
Now Donald Trump's team obviously saying we'll get to 1237 before the convention. This doesn't matter at all. And they will start right here in New York, 95 delegates at stake, possibly sweeping all 95 of them. But look, the effort that's going on behind the scenes on all the campaigns so important to pay attention to it.
COSTELLO: So interesting. Phil Mattingly, thanks so much.
So Mr. Trump, he says he will not play Senator Cruz's games. Yes, he lost delegates to Cruz but he says he's above using his toys to buy their support.
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TRUMP: It's a corrupt and crooked system where you're allowed to take delegates -- look, nobody has better toys than I do. I could put them in the best planes and bring them to the best resorts anywhere in the world. Doral, Mar-a-Largo. I can put them in the best places in the world, California, I have something that blows everything away. But it's a corrupt system. You're basically buying these people.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: It appears Mr. Trump hopes his supporters will rally in Cleveland to assure he gets the nomination. Trump says he hopes violence isn't part of the equation but Cleveland isn't taking any chances. It's already secured a $50 million federal grant for riot gear and other security measures.
With me now, Carl Paladino, he's the honorary co-chair of Donald Trump's New York state campaign. He's also a former New York gubernatorial candidate. I'm also joined by Judson Phillips, he is a surrogate for Ted Cruz and founder and president of the Tea Party Nation.
Welcome to both of you.
JUDSON PHILLIPS, TED CRUZ SUPPORTER: Good morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: Good morning. Thank you both for being here.
CARL PALADINO, HONORARY CO-CHAIR, DONALD TRUMP NEW YORK CAMPAIGN: Thank you, Carol.
COSTELLO: Carl, Mr. Trump is a savvy businessman who says he knows how to work the system so why wouldn't he use any legal influence he can over delegates?
PALADINO: Well, I think what you're seeing here is Mr. Trump is complaining about what's happened in the past and illustrating to the people that they never really had a choice in the past, that it's always been controlled by the establishment party leaders. And that is very unfair to the people. I think the people have been awakened to that fact now. And God forbid if the present leaders of the Republican Party try to do a brokered convention and don't think the people's --
COSTELLO: Why do you say God forbid, Carl?
PALADINO: Because I think it's the end of the Republican Party as we've known it. If they continue that nonsense, the people are not going to accept it. They're going to lay down, at best. At worst, they will help support Donald Trump as a third party candidate. I don't see any way the Republican Party leadership can recover from this. They've already cast their ballot on this brokered convention idea, and the fact that they intend to take the nomination away from the people's choice. OK.
COSTELLO: OK.
[09:10:12] PALADINO: This man has gone through all the months and months -- yes.
COSTELLO: OK. So along those lines and I want to post this question to Judson.
PALADINO: I'm sorry.
COSTELLO: No problem at all, Carl. It's interesting. Ted Cruz told "GMA," "Good Morning America," he was
on "Good Morning America" this morning that he will win at the convention thanks to, quote, "delegates elected by the people." Not because he is the candidate most people voted for, but because delegates elected by the people will make it possible for him. This is something you rarely hear in a presidential election. So is he spinning things?
PHILLIPS: No, he's not. We are selecting the nominee for the Republican Party. The Republican nominee should be selected by Republicans. And in a lot of these states, like Wyoming and Nebraska, North Dakota, and some other states, you have caucuses and conventions where you have Republicans, not just people who cross the ballot lines, selecting who the Republican nominee is. So, yes, it's the Republicans who are deciding who their nominee is. And that's a great thing.
COSTELLO: I think that a number of voters here in America just want their vote to matter. And by saying that Ted Cruz will be like -- will become the nominee because of delegates elected by the people, that doesn't exactly -- I don't know. And it is democracy and it is our system. And don't get me wrong but a lot of people will really want -- do we want to vote for a guy who had to go through the backdoor to get the nomination?
PHILLIPS: Well, Carol, first of all, we live in a representative republic, not a democracy. We elect representatives. And that's what's happening in the Republican process. That's what happens in the general election. We don't vote directly for the president. We vote for electors who comprise the electoral college who then meet about three weeks after the election and then vote for the president. So that's how the system works. And it's a great system. It has made America great for almost 240 years.
COSTELLO: So, Carl, knowing that, knowing all of that, because we do have a republic and those are the rules, again I ask you, why wouldn't Donald Trump use his influence over these delegates like any savvy businessman would?
PALADINO: Because -- I mean, what you're talking about is really -- it's not true. For instance, in New York, the people will vote in each congressional district. Then it's party people, it's establishment party people who will then select the delegates. For instance, they'll select a delegate that may be favorable to Cruz, OK, but they know that that delegate on the first vote will have to vote for Donald Trump. OK. It's a total fraud. It's been going on for years, it's been going on for ages.
It's the way the incumbents protect their incumbency as leaders in this country. And these people right now are facing irrelevance. They're facing the loss of power and they don't like it. So they're fighting back. And they're going to use these rules to the ultimate. And that is unfair to the people. The people don't select the delegates. The people select how the delegates will vote on the first ballot. After that, it's really party establishment people that are selecting the delegates. COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there.
PALADINO: It's all nonsense.
COSTELLO: Carl Paladino, Judson Phillips, thanks to both of you. Still to come in the NEWSROOM --
PHILLIPS: Thank you, Carol.
COSTELLO: You're welcome.
Still to come in the NEWSROOM, President Obama's controversial immigration plan goes before Supreme Court today. Pamela Brown is there.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, large crowds gather in front of the high court in anticipation of the oral arguments with President Obama's signature immigration reform plan. Coming up, we'll tell you why this case could be decided on an issue other than immigration.
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CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Large demonstrations now underway in Washington and other cities as the U.S. Supreme Court takes up immigration. The high court will hear oral arguments from 26 states challenging President Obama's executive orders to stop deportations for certain immigrants. Now the fates of more than 4 million undocumented immigrants hang in the balance.
CNN justice correspondent, Pamela Brown, is at the Supreme Court this morning with more. Good morning, Pamela.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. This is one of the most highly anticipated cases of the term that could impact millions of people. It has broad implications for executive power.
Outside of the Supreme Court this morning you can hear large crowds, demonstrators on both sides of the issue. Many of the demonstrators are here on behalf their family members who would be eligible for President Obama's immigration program, those who came to the United States as children or parents of U.S. citizens.
Supporters of this program says it will bring these 4.3 million people out of the shadows, so that they can pass a background check, pay taxes and apply for work benefits while the administration focuses on deporting the highest priority targets. The president said he came up with this program because of congressional inaction.
On the other side of this issue, those against the program say that this is executive overreach at its worse, bestows benefits on a class of individuals that Congress has refused to bestow benefits upon.
And Texas, one of the states leading the charges out of 26 states, say it will have to spend millions of dollars on driver's licenses for these people.
Now, the death of Antonin Scalia could have an impact. If it's a 4-4 split that means the lower court's ruling will stand and the program will not go into effect.
[09:20:03]However, Carol, this case could be decided on an issue other than immigration. The justices could decide that the states don't have the standing to bring the lawsuit in the first place.
If that happens, the program will go into effect. Oral arguments start at 10:00 this morning, going on for 90 minutes. We expect a ruling on this issue later this term in June or July -- Carol.
COSTELLO: OK, I know you will pop inside the court soon, Pamela Brown, I'm sure you will keep us posted. Thank you.
From the beginning, immigration has been a hot button issue this election season more so for Donald Trump and any other candidate, whose controversial border wall inspired a rally cry.
With me now is CNN senior political analyst and senior editor at "The Atlantic," Ron Brownstein. Good morning, Ron.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: So how politically explosive could this U.S. Supreme Court decision be?
BROWNSTEIN: This is, to paraphrase Joe Biden once, this is a big deal. I mean, this is certainly one of the most consequential decisions for several reasons. As Pamela said, it gets at this growing tension over the expansion of executive power in an era when divided government is routine.
We've seen presidents in both parties push the envelope trying to do things through unilateral action. The court is the one place that can put a brake on that.
But the bigger issue obviously is immigration has moved to the center of the differences between the parties. We came out of 2012 after Mitt Romney won a higher share of the white vote than Ronald Reagan did in 1980 and lost by 5 million votes.
You had the Republican National Committee's official autopsy commission argue that the party had to reach out to more diverse voters. That impulse led the Senate in a bipartisan vote to pass a comprehensive immigration reform bill in 2013.
The House refused to take it up. Ever since, the Republican Party has been moving in the other direction, culminating in the calls by Ted Cruz and Donald Trump to deport all of the 11 million or so undocumented immigrants in the U.S.
While the Democrats, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton, are promising to go even further than President Obama on executive action. This is clearly one of the biggest divides between the parties heading into November.
COSTELLO: All eyes are on John Roberts with Justice Scalia's death, viewed as a more liberal court, right. If we get a President Trump and he fills that seat, could his wall happen then?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, yes, look, I mean, the wall would be more of an issue of getting appropriations from Congress. This really underscores, as well, the stakes in this election in the Supreme Court. They could block this lawsuit. They could overturn the lower court decision on standing.
If they're going to do it on substance, it seems headed for a 4-4 tie. The question would be if the decision -- if the executive order is blocked, could a Democratic president slightly revise the executive order, resubmit it through the courts and if they have a five-member Supreme Court majority of Democratic appointees, could it be supported then?
That would give them more leverage to encourage Congress into a legislative solution. The politics of this are complicated. It not only underscores the distance between the parties on these issues, but the enormous stakes in this election which control not only the executive branch, probably the Senate, but also the Supreme Court will be on ballot.
COSTELLO: You're not kidding. Back to John Roberts for a second. He is a conservative jurist but not by today's standards. Senator Ted Cruz, for example, has vilified Justice Roberts. Here is what he said in February.
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SENATOR TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And the virtue of both (inaudible) is they didn't have a paper trail. They were stealth candidates and frankly their advisers said wink, wink, nudge, nudge, they're deep down secretly conservatives but no one can prove it.
Let me suggest a principle. If you have lived 50 years of your life and you've never said, done or written anything to demonstrate you're a conservative, you ain't.
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COSTELLO: So, you know, the thing about this is that the public doesn't have faith in any of our institutions and is this chipping away at whatever faith is left that people have in the U.S. Supreme Court?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Well, look, John Roberts has been, by any standard, a conservative jurist. The big exception are the two decisions upholding the Affordable Care Act. He has been conscience as the chief justice of the increasing lens through which the Supreme Court is viewed as simply an extension of politics by other means with the five Republican appointed justices routinely on close cases voting against the four Democratic appointed justices. Ever since Bush V Gore in 2000, I think the court has been seen more as an extension than an exception from our intensifying political wars. These are the kinds of cases that deepen that impression.
What we have seen, though, from Roberts is some kind of institutional, self-preservation instinct where he has tried to avoid being fully caught into that maelstrom. And so it will be fascinating.
[09:25:05]That's why some people think they will find a way to deal with this case apart from the underlying substance and instead deal with this issue of standing.
WHITFIELD: All right, Ron Brownstein, thanks so much.
Still to come in NEWSROOM, down to the wire for Democrats in New York. Hillary Clinton leads Bernie Sanders, but does she need a blowout to put the nomination out of his reach?
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COSTELLO: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thanks so much for joining me. A Democratic dog fight in New York as Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders battle for a state each claims as their own. Clinton underscoring the significance of the primary in a new ad.
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