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Trump Ramps Up Delegate Rule Attacks; Clinton, Sanders Blanket NYC Before Primary; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 18, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:00:01] CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: From 8 feet there, Carol, up to 37 feet. Could you imagine the water you're looking at it and in two hours it can go up 30 feet.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: So please be careful out there.

Chad Myers, thanks so much.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Happening now in the NEWSROOM, New York ready to vote. And the GOP frontrunner ready to fight the system.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have a system that's rigged, we have a system that's broken.

REINCE PRIEBUS, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: You need to be able to play within the confines of the rules.

COSTELLO: Why the GOP rule book may be the most interesting read in politics right now.

Also, Democrats dash around New York.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let's have a record- breaking turnout on Tuesday.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: God bless you, Staten Island.

COSTELLO: But money talks. And even George Clooney calls the amount of cash in politics obscene.

Plus, earthquake outbreak. Major quakes in Ecuador, in Japan. Now a race to save survivors.

Let's talk. Live in CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thanks so much for joining me. Right now in Washington the Supreme Court begins hearing arguments on President Obama's controversial plan to stop deportations of about four million undocumented immigrants.

Demonstrators have been gathering outside the court for hours. Texas and 25 other states are suing to have the president's executive orders on immigration struck down.

We're keeping a close eye on the high court and the public protests. We'll bring you any developments as they unfold.

All right. Get ready for a New York showdown. We're now just hours away from tomorrow's critical primary. Today the candidates are barnstorming the state to try and sway voters.

Let's begin with the Republicans. Donald Trump rips the GOP delegate system while Ted Cruz sets his sights on the convention.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'll have a ton of delegates. He'll have a ton of delegates. And it's going to be a battle in Cleveland to see who can get to a majority. You can't get the nomination without earning a majority of the delegates elected by the people, and I believe Donald's highest total will be on that first ballot and he will go steadily down because Donald cannot win and we don't want to nominate someone who is a loser.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But Mr. Trump insists the delegate system is rigged and crooked, and he's warning the big bosses of a rough July unless the delegate rules change. All of this as a new battle brews between top GOP operatives committee.

Let's get right to CNN's Jason Carroll. Good morning.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, Carol. I'm sure Donald Trump will have something to say about that Ted Cruz comment later on today. As for the system, here is some of the words that he's used to describe it, sham, crooked, dishonest, and rigged, as you heard. He had plenty to say last night at that rally in Poughkeepsie where he spelled out his feelings in no uncertain terms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We have a system that's rigged. We have a system that's crooked. We have a system that's got a lot of problems, and we have a system that doesn't allow the people to vote in many cases, and if they do vote, their vote isn't really representative of what it should be. We have this delegate system which is a sham. So in Colorado the people are going crazy out there because they never got a chance to vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: The chairman of the Republican National Committee weighing in on this issue over the weekend hitting the air waves talking to many people in the media as he says trying to set the record straight. He basically says this is what the deal is. He says this is not a rigged system. This is a system where you simply need to learn the rules.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRIEBUS: Each individual state determines how they're going to allocate their delegates, so it's up to the campaigns to know the rules and compete within each of those states within the rules. It's important for the candidates to understand that the majority of delegates is the goal, and you need to be able to play within the confines of the rules to make sure that you get there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Yes, and the chairman also saying that it's up to each campaign to get in there, work the grassroots efforts to reach out to the delegates. Trump says he knows this, he's heard this before. He just simply says he's not interested in doing it.

Moving forward, as you know, Trump is doing well here in the polls. He holds a commanding lead over Cruz and Kasich. What he's hoping for here, Carol, is a huge win in the state of New York. He says that would be a referendum on what he's been saying about the whole delegate stem -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Jason Carroll reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.

As Trump rips the Republican delegate system, Senator Ted Cruz is hitting back. For more on that I want to bring in CNN's Sunlen Serfaty. Good morning.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Yes, Ted Cruz really laying into Donald Trump again over this, starting the hash tag whining in reference to Trump's complaints about the delegate system. Today Senator Cruz is celebrating a clean sweep in Wyoming, winning all 14 of those delegates.

[10:05:05] And today really making that a stark contrast in how Donald Trump is managing his campaign and how he has mastery -- his campaign is able to master these intricate rules of the delegate process. Today Senator Cruz said that, look, Donald Trump is not all that complicated. He just does not like losing. And basically going on to say that's why Trump is complaining about the system but here we are, of course, one day before the New York primary where Ted Cruz is, in most polls third in the polls behind Trump and Kasich and that New York values line continues to haunt him as he's campaigned in New York.

Here is what he had to say about that this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: The phrase New York values actually didn't come from me. It came from Donald Trump. It was an interview he gave a number of years ago to "Meet the Press" where he was explaining his long-time support for partial birth abortion, and his explanation was, hey, I'm from New York. Those are New York values. They're not Iowa values. And so I was repeating Donald's own phrasing.

Now let me be clear as I have said many times, the people of New York, the folks here, you all have suffered under the left-wing Democratic policies year after year after year that are foisted on you by politicians who aren't listening to you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: So there you hear him really try to explain what he meant to say, what he meant by that, but that certainly continues to chase him on the campaign trail in New York. He is continuing to downplay expectations for how he will do in New York. Rather now looking ahead to states coming up in the schedule. He's in Maryland today and in Pennsylvania tomorrow, two states that will vote next Thursday -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Sunlen Serfaty reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.

So how will all of this play out not just tomorrow in New York but in the months before the convention? With me now to talk about that is Lisa Boothe. She's a Republican strategist and contributor for the "Washington Examiner." I'm also joined by Trump supporter Jeffrey Lord, he's a CNN political commentator and former Reagan White House political director. And last but not least, author Rebecca Hagelin, she's a surrogate for Ted Cruz.

Welcome to all of you.

LISA BOOTHE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Hi, Carol.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Happy Monday, Carol.

REBECCA HAGELIN, TED CRUZ SUPPORTER: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Hi. Nice to have you all here.

Lisa, I want to start with you. Ted Cruz told "Good Morning America" he will win at the convention thanks to, quote, "delegates elected by the people." Not because he's the candidate most people voted for, but delegates elected by the people.

What do you make of his language?

BOOTHE: Well, it's interesting because we've sort of seen the curtain be pulled back on the delegate system in a way that we really haven't seen in recent time because up until this point in previous election cycles we've had a candidate that has gotten the majority of the vote. But I think regardless if you're Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, or John Kasich, the idea that somehow Republicans are just going to come to this consensus candidate, hold hands and sing Kumbaya is just not going to happen at this point. Uniting the party is going to be a tall task. And it's going to take a lot for us to get there. And, look, in regards to this delegate fight, both candidates are kind

of right in the sense when you look at states like Wyoming, you look at states like Colorado, that system seems rigged. However, you know, Donald Trump has been fully aware of the rules and has failed to get there. We've seen him make concerted efforts to change that process with bringing aboard Paul Manafort, also bringing aboard Rick Wily. So obviously he sees the problems at hand with his candidacy and he's making steps to change it. But they're both kind of right in the ways that they're presenting the argument.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: OK. So in light of what Lisa just said, Jeffrey, Mr. Trump did say he does not want to say like trips to Mar-a-Lago to persuade delegates even if that's legal. He doesn't want to, you know, give them free plane rides to try to change their mind, but why not use the system like he does in the business world?

LORD: You know, Carol, I have to say I am a little disappointed in that. I mean, what fun this would be when President Ford was fighting then Governor Reagan, one delegate, as I think we've discussed before, was invited for dinner at the White House with the Queen of England. So, you know, no holds were barred, and in point of fact, other than offering federal office to a delegate, which is against the law, you can do just about anything, and I must say I would find it very interesting to see these delegates hop on that 757 and fly to Mar-a- Lago for the weekend but this is what he wants to do and he's going to do it his way and so here we go.

COSTELLO: So, Rebecca, I mean is Senator Cruz glad that Donald Trump is not doing that or does Senator Cruz believe Donald Trump is trying to persuade delegates in other ways?

HAGELIN: Well, I think it's pretty disgusting that we're even joking about such a thing. Ted Cruz is winning states, he won the last five because the grassroots are rising up and listening to his message, hearing his message about jobs, freedom and security, and the delegates are flocking to him. This is America. We have a system of government that is set by the states and the people in the party system, and we have something else that is the bedrock foundation.

[10:10:09] And when you have a Donald Trump who is in this race, who doesn't know the rules, who hasn't bothered to play by them, it makes me wonder, has he ever bothered to read the Foundational Document, the Constitution of the United States?

COSTELLO: My gosh.

HAGELIN: It shows that there's just not a lot of good judgment or even homework done on his part.

LORD: With all due respect --

HAGELIN: He reminds me of a middle school child who is stomping his feet when he starts losing a football game because he doesn't know the rules. LORD: With all due respect --

BOOTHE: But, Carol --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Go ahead, Lisa.

BOOTHE: Well, Carol, one thing to note regarding Donald Trump right now, I don't think he cares about the rules. Donald Trump is the king making a shiny object. Creating a shiny object to direct attention away from the fact that Ted Cruz has been winning these delegates. This is what -- Donald Trump is a master puppeteer, he's a master at driving headlines, the master of driving the media and that's what he's doing right now.

He wants to take the focus away from Ted Cruz winning these delegates, working the system over in Colorado and Wyoming, and bring the attention on the fact the system is rigged, it's us against me. And that's the narrative that he's been driving. It's smart from a communications standpoint.

COSTELLO: And we hear that.

BOOTHE: I think it's very smart, but that's exactly what he's been trying to do, so I think we need to sort of look beyond the rules necessarily and actually look at the fact that this is what Donald Trump has been doing, it's creating a shiny object. Look over there.

COSTELLO: So, Jeffrey --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Jeffrey -- we've got to get Jeffrey in here. He's a Trump supporter. Go ahead .

LORD: One of the things that we're not discussing her, in terms of the New York primary tomorrow which Donald Trump is at this point apparently set to run away with, the Republican nominee for president has to carry the northeastern United States. They've got to get back into the northeastern United States. Senator Cruz has shown no ability to do this. He's running second to Governor Kasich or third actually to Governor Kasich in New York.

Ronald Reagan was able to carry not only New York but Massachusetts and Pennsylvania and New Jersey. You've got to be able to do that if you're a successful Republican presidential nominee. The reason President Bush 43 won by the skin of his teeth is because he was able to get, what, Florida's 537 votes and the Supreme Court to get him into the White House. He lost those states. We have to do better with that and Senator Cruz is not showing the ability to do that.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: I want to move on to -- I want to move on to the New York values comment. BOOTHE: Speaking of delegates everywhere.

COSTELLO: Well, I want to move on to the New York values comment because a lot of people have said that Ted Cruz's use of that term hurt him.

LORD; Right.

COSTELLO: He justified using New York values in a negative way on "GMA" by attributing the remark to Donald Trump and his support of partial birth abortion. Is that effective?

BOOTHE: Oh, my goodness --

HAGELIN: American conservatives all across the country know what Ted Cruz meant by that, and it was Donald Trump --

COSTELLO: But he's got to -- like Jeffrey said, he's got to attract more than ultra conservatives, right?

(CROSSTALK)

HAGELIN: Pardon me?

COSTELLO: So in that sense he's got to attract more than just conservatives, right? He needs to broaden his base.

HAGELIN: Oh, but he is. Listen, Ted Cruz is bringing around the Republicans of all stripes who are supporting him. Five of the presidential candidates on the Republican side are now supporting him. He's unifying this party like never before, and I'll tell you what's going to happen, as we get closer and closer to each state, what we see happening is people are hearing Ted Cruz's message, they're realizing jobs, freedom, security is what they're interested in.

I mean, today is tax day. Your viewers right now, like all families across America, are kind of grumpy today because we have this onerous tax system. Ted Cruz's simple flat tax plan will eliminate this onerous process at 10 percent across the board tax for individuals.

COSTELLO: Well --

(CROSSTALK)

HAGELIN: Sixteen percent for the corporations.

COSTELLO: Before I run out of time, I just want to ask -- I want to ask Lisa this question because she's my neutral party. Right? So you just heard Rebecca say that Ted Cruz is uniting the party and his base is broadening. Are those things true?

BOOTHE: I think it's a tough call right now. Yes, he's gotten Jeb Bush, yes, he's gotten Mitt Romney, yes, he's gotten Senator Lindsey Graham, but remember Senator Lindsey Graham framed his endorsement in terms where he has previously said that picking between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz is like getting shot or poisoned. So I think people are coming on board, but they are doing so tepidly.

That being said, the reality is this thing is going to go until June 7th. We're going to have to go down to the wire with states like -- you know, California, excuse me, and potentially even beyond to a contested convention for the first time in 40 years because the reality is we do not have a candidate at this point unlike previous election cycles who has reached that majority of vote, who has reached that 1,237 number.

[10:15:01] So, yes, I do think that he is starting to grow a coalition, but he's not there to the point or anywhere close to getting that 1,237 number.

COSTELLO: All right. I got to leave it there. Lisa Boothe, Jeffrey Lord, Rebecca Hagelin.

HAGELIN: Yes. And what's going to happen --

COSTELLO: I got to go. Thanks so much.

LORD: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM -- bye.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM Bernie Sanders banking on one thing for a win in New York, turnout. But will his massive crowds turn into massive votes?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: As the clock winds down to tomorrow's New York primary, Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders are crisscrossing the five boroughs of New York City today in a last-minute bid to get those last minute votes. Sanders continuing to rake in massive crowds over the weekend. His campaign says he set a record in Brooklyn, but the Vermont senator facing big questions about his policies and whether he can implement them if elected.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: You've been saying these things for a long time. You haven't been able to achieve what you're saying you'll be able to achieve now. Fair criticism?

SANDERS: Not really. I mean, when you're a member of Congress, you have a certain role to play and I'm very proud of my role and I will compare it to Secretary Clinton's any day.

[10:20:03] She was in the Senate for eight years. We passed a major bill to improve veterans health care. A major provision of the Affordable Health Care. It's something that I offered $11 million for community health centers. Major piece of environmental legislation.

I'm pretty proud of my record. The president is in a different position.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's Chris Frates joins me now with more on this. He didn't exactly answer the question. That's what we were talking about when we were listening to that.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right. Although I'll tell you what, Carol, Bernie Sanders getting some help from George Clooney this weekend. Clooney hosting a big fundraiser for Hillary Clinton, $350,000 for a VIP ticket, but then when he was asked on one of the news shows about that fundraiser, he agreed with the host saying that it was a ridiculous and obscene amount of money, which dovetails very nicely into Bernie Sanders' message.

In fact, George Clooney said he supports Sanders' position on the fact that there's too much money in politics and we heard from Bernie Sanders at a big rally in Brooklyn hitting Hillary Clinton for taking all that money. But Bernie Sanders was not the only person taking on Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump on the Republican side of the aisle also hitting and giving Hillary Clinton one of his patented two-word nicknames.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I don't respond to Donald Trump and his string of insults about me. I can take care of myself. I look forward to running against him if he turns out to be the Republican nominee, if I am the Democratic nominee. What I'm concerned about is how he goes after everybody else. He goes after women. He goes after Muslims. He goes after immigrants. He goes after people with disabilities.

He is hurting our unity at home. He is undermining the values that we stand for in New York and across America, and he's hurting us around the world. He can say whatever he wants to say about me. I really could care less.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: Now, of course, there's Hillary Clinton responding to Donald Trump calling her crooked Hillary, so you expect to hear that a little bit more on the campaign trail as Donald Trump tries to pivot to that general election. Hillary Clinton doing the same thing.

Of course, Carol, they're both the frontrunners here in New York. They're looking for big wins tomorrow and they're both trying to start to take each other on as they look toward November.

COSTELLO: I think they more than started to take each other on.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: Chris Frates, thanks so much.

FRATES: Thank you.

COSTELLO: I want to bring in Bill Press, he's the host of "The Bill Press Show" and author of "Buyer's Remorse: How Obama Let Progressives Down." Ryan Lizza is the Washington correspondent for the "New Yorker" and Michael Nutter is a former Philadelphia mayor and Hillary Clinton supporter.

Welcome to all of you.

BILL PRESS, HOST, "THE BILL PRESS SHOW": Hi, carol.

RYAN LIZZA, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORKER: Thanks, Carol.

COSTELLO: Hi. Michael, I want you to listen to something Sanders said this morning on CNN. He was talking about Newtown families and suing gun manufacturers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: The Newtown suit is you put them in the video games, you market them to the young, you tell people they're tools of empowerment, that they make you cool, they make you macho.

SANDERS: It's an ugly thing to do.

CUOMO: And they want to sue. I'm not saying they'd win the suit.

SANDERS: Right.

CUOMO: But do you think they should be able to sue?

SANDERS: Well, obviously they should and they are suing and they want to --

CUOMO: You said no.

SANDERS: Well, within a broader context. Do I think somebody should be held liable is what I said for selling a legal product. Should somebody have the right to sue and make their case? Of course they should.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. So that seemed to be at odds with what Bernie Sanders told the "New York Daily News" editorial board back on April 1st. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: Do I think the victims --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

SANDERS: -- of a crime with a gun should be able to sue the manufacturer, that's your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.

SANDERS: No, I don't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. So, Michael, I want you to weigh in and, Bill, don't worry, I'll get to you next.

PRESS: OK.

COSTELLO: So, Michael, everybody accuses Hillary Clinton of tailoring her message because of what Bernie Sanders is saying but is it vice versa this time around or has Bernie Sanders been consistent?

MICHAEL NUTTER, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: Well, Senator Sanders has not been consistent, at least in this exchange. He's been very consistent up until now laying out the case that he supported the legislation, he voted for the legislation to provide immunity to the gun manufacturers who are the only industry in the United States of America that enjoy that immunity.

Now all of a sudden in New York and then leading into next week in the five Atlantic states' elections, he seems to be changing his message. That's not an adjustment. That's an actual change or just complete confusion. The senator often likes to have a nuanced position that somehow he threads the needle in explaining that he likes some part of a piece of legislation, dislikes another part of a piece of legislation, and uses that as justification for being for something or against something.

I have been a legislator. You can't get away with that. If you voted for it, you voted for it. If you voted against it, you voted against it, and these are just, you know, kind of Jedi mind games that the senator seems to be engaging in here in the latter stages of this campaign.

COSTELLO: So Bill -- Bill, is Bernie Sanders guilty of Jedi mind games?

PRESS: Yes -- well, first of all I just got to say I do agree with Mayor Nutter on that one point. Hillary Clinton voted against the war -- for the war in Iraq and so she's got to live with that and she can't have it any other way.

[10:25:02] She supported the Keystone pipeline. She's got to live with that. If we really want to get down to the -- this rigid principle the mayor enunciated. Look, I personally --

NUTTER: Carol, I think we're talking about the gun manufacturers.

PRESS: May I? May I? May I? May I please?

COSTELLO: Yes, we were actually, Bill.

PRESS: I personally believe that gun manufacturers should be held liable for any gun -- any crime committed with any gun, so this is one of the -- I disagree with my candidate. But I do think what Bernie is saying is he's making a distinction between anybody who sells a legal gun being liable for a lawsuit and those who sell first an illegal gun, those who sell multiple guns, those who sell multiple rounds of ammunition or those who sell assault weapons which he believes should be illegal. That's the distinction I believe he's making and that's a good start. I like that.

COSTELLO: So, Ryan, will this issue resonate in New York preprimary?

LIZZA: I think so. I mean, this is -- the gun issue is probably the issue that Hillary Clinton has used most effectively against Bernie Sanders. You know, she's sort of struggled to find some issues where she could get to the left of Sanders, right, in a Democratic primary, where there's a lot more liberal voters. That's what you want to do, and this gun issue with Bernie Sanders who had a fairly conservative record because he's from Vermont and he, you know, was a little bit worried about the NRA spending money against him in his races, and, frankly, he was, you know, voting his constituents in Vermont.

It's a pretty pro-gun right state, and I think it has mattered and will continue to matter and, you know, putting aside the merits of the legislation, I do think that Sanders has, as those two clips showed, struggled to explain what he believes on this issue and struggled to get into the intricacies of it. It seems to me, and this is a little speculative, that he supported this legislation because he's from Vermont and because it was an issue that was important to gun rights voters in Vermont, and he didn't really think through the implications if he were a presidential candidate.

COSTELLO: On the other hand, Michael, Hillary Clinton is still sort of suffering from Bernie Sanders' attacks that, you know, she's a big money politician, so you have to wonder which issue will Trump the other.

NUTTER: Well, that was a good pun, Carol.

COSTELLO: Sorry.

NUTTER: First of all, let's reiterate, Senator Sanders voted for that legislation --

LIZZA: I was going to say which issue will have the force with him.

(LAUGHTER)

NUTTER: Senator Sanders voted for that legislation for immunity. That is not in dispute here at all. With regard to the issue that you raised, Secretary Clinton has the Hillary Victory Fund, which actually the two big fundraisers that you referenced actually helps to raise money not just for her but also for the Democratic National Committee and for 32 state committees all across the United States of America to help those committees with get out the vote activities, et cetera, et cetera.

She's raised about $27 million. $22 million of which has gone to those other efforts, not just herself. Senator Sanders has a victory fund as well and as Jonathan Capehart pointed out about 2 and a half weeks ago, he's done virtually nothing to help the party or those 32 Democratic state committees all across the United States of America. You should check out the article. So this money is not all for her. It's actually for party building and state committees all across the United States of America because she's a real Democrat who is trying to help other Democrats across the country. Senator Sanders --

COSTELLO: Real Democrat, real Democrat, Bill.

NUTTER: -- is focused on him and his campaign and his ads that he gets to run because he's keeping all the money that he's raising from the Democrats.

COSTELLO: Is that true, Bill?

PRESS: Well, first of all, look, Bernie Sanders may not have been a registered Democrat all his life. He's voted for the 16 years in Congress and eight years in the Senate with the Democratic caucus 95 percent of the time. He is a registered Democrat today. I think the real question is not is he a real Democrat, but why are so many Democrats voting for him? And on the money issue, I have got to say, look, I'm not sure this is going to be the defining issue in the New York primary or any primary, but there's a clear contrast.

Hillary Clinton's doing it the old-fashioned way for the most part, the vast part, with a super PAC and maxing out big donors. Bernie Sanders has no PAC. He's doing it a whole new way. No PAC at all and all small donations. And by the way, I just might add, Bernie Sanders has done fundraising letters for the Democratic Senate Campaign Committee. Bernie Sanders -- I get maybe two or three e-mails a day from the Sanders' campaign asking me for money for other progressive candidates around the country.

I just think Mayor Nutter is behind the times on this. He doesn't know what's going on.

COSTELLO: OK. All right. So, Ryan, last question to you.

NUTTER: No. I think, Bill, you need to read John Capehart's piece.

PRESS: I read it. It stinks.

COSTELLO: Ryan, last question to you.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: OK. Ryan, --

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: Ryan, last question to you.

NUTTER: You would have that opinion since --

PRESS: No, it's just not true. It's not true. That's all. It's not true.