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Fighting ISIS; Supreme Court Hears Immigration Case; Ted Cruz Confronted Over Gay Rights; New York Primary Battle. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 18, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:03]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Here we go, rolling on, hour two. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

In less than 24 hours, we will be in the throes of event that the political universe has not seen in 40 years, a New York Republican primary that matters, making a difference in who the party's presidential nominee is; 95 delegates are at stake, and front-runner Donald Trump needs every single one of them in his pursuit of 1,237. That is the number of delegates required to clinch the party's nomination ahead of that convention in Cleveland in July.

But while Mr. Trump is pushing hard for the New York vote, his prime rival, Senator Ted Cruz, has already moved on. We will take you live to Maryland to catch up with the Cruz campaign in just a second.

But first here in New York, CNN senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta is live in Buffalo ahead of Trump's rally there.

I know he's covering some serious miles ahead of the primary tomorrow, lower Manhattan at lunch and now Buffalo. Tell me about all of that.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Brooke.

You know, Donald Trump has not won a major contest since last month and he's lost a string of primaries and caucuses to Ted Cruz. Cruz, you have seen in recent weeks, is picking away delegates in place like Wyoming and Colorado where they sort of these very strange and hard- to-understand convention processes under way.

That has really frustrated the Trump campaign and Donald Trump himself, but earlier today he was sort of looking forward to the general election campaign. He was trying to shore up what is really kind of a vulnerability for his campaign. He was meeting with his diversity council there at Trump Tower in Manhattan.

In that diversity council and there is Omarosa, who you will recall starred in one of Donald Trump's "Apprentice" seasons many, many years ago. She and other minority members of this diversity council are making the case that Donald Trump is not hostile to minorities and that's obviously a message that they want to take into the general election campaign. And Donald Trump really was sort of talking about the primary that's

at stake coming up tomorrow, the New York primary, earlier today when he went right back at that line of attack on Ted Cruz about New York values. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't want to believe the polls. If the polls are what they are, they're beyond anything that's anyone's seen, really. But we love the city. You look at the other folks that are running. They couldn't care less about New York.

We do care about New York and lot. We care about New York values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Now, this is a pretty important moment for the Trump campaign, Brooke. As I said, Donald Trump has had this slew of losses in recent weeks.

And the New York primary which comes up tomorrow, this is his home state. This is really a chance for Donald Trump to pick up a lot of delegates and really set the table for what's happening next week, which is the Northeast weighs in, places like Pennsylvania, Connecticut and Maryland.

Brooke, we have been talking recent weeks about how Donald Trump has struggling. Has been really frustrated going after the RNC system of awarding delegates as a rigged system and a sham. But he can start winning old-fashioned way. If he picks up all of these delegates in New York tomorrow, 95 at stake, he has a chance of doing that, sweeping across the state and picking up all these delegates.

And then if he goes into next week, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, Connecticut, he's going to go a long way towards securing this nomination. The big question as you know, Brooke, does he get to 1,237? That question is not going to be answered for many, many weeks -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Not yet. Not yet.

ACOSTA: Not yet.

BALDWIN: Jim Acosta, thank you very much in Buffalo, New York.

You saw Trump, as we mentioned earlier, in Manhattan. Now to Ted Cruz not in New York.

Our Sunlen Serfaty is with the senator's campaign today just wrapped an event there in Towson, Maryland.

Sunlen, day before New York primary, Cruz is in Maryland. Do the math for me.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brooke. He is really focused on looking ahead and certainly looking beyond New

York primary, but it is very notable as you point out that he is not in New York on the eve of the New York primary, and in fact he is holding no formal public campaign events in New York. Only opting today to hold a closed-door fund-raisers and attend a TV interview, so not doing any big campaign rallies on the eve of the primary to shore up any last-minute support.

He is today here in Maryland and tomorrow he will be in Pennsylvania. These are two states that vote next Tuesday, April 26, so certainly trying to look ahead. Certainly gives us a clue as to where the Cruz campaign thinks their chances are coming up in New York's primary tomorrow.

But moments ago here in Maryland, Senator Cruz really addressed the fact that this race is now coming to Maryland and he called this state a battleground. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now, Maryland votes just over a week from now. Maryland is a battleground. Maryland is going to have an outsized voice as the nation is looking to Maryland to decide do we nominate Donald Trump and hand the election to Hillary Clinton?

[15:05:03]

AUDIENCE: No!

CRUZ: Or do we unite behind the Cruz campaign and beat Hillary Clinton?

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: So, absolutely no mention there of the New York primary that's happening tomorrow.

Senator Cruz, though, in the final days when he was campaigning in New York, he really was downplaying expectations, saying, you know, Donald Trump looks strong, it looks like he will have a good outcome tomorrow. Certainly downplaying expectations for what he anticipates for his campaign and really setting a sky-high bar for Donald Trump, Cruz saying if Donald Trump doesn't exceed that 50 percent in New York, his home state, it would be a devastating loss -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Sunlen in Maryland, Sunlen Serfaty, thank you so much.

We have just thrown a lot at you. Let's dissect all of this now.

Joining me now, chief political analyst Gloria Borger, Katie Packer, the executive director of Our Principles PAC, which is against Donald Trump, and Senior Pastor Darrell Scott, who is the CEO of the National Diversity Coalition for Trump, who we just saw standing next to Mr. Trump just a couple of hours ago.

Welcome to all of you.

Pastor, nice to see you in person.

DARRELL SCOTT, NATIONAL DIVERSITY COALITION: Good to see you, too.

BALDWIN: Just saw you in the picture next to Donald Trump. You spoke at the diversity event today. Talk to me about what is the mission there and what happened behind closed doors?

SCOTT: Well, National Diversity Coalition for Trump is representative of a large number of ethnic groups across America.

I mean, there are a number of ethnic groups that like Trump, Muslims, Sikhs, Indians, Mexicans, Hispanics, Latinos. They're supportive of him as a candidate for president of the United States.

There's this perception that is being disseminated by the media that Trump is some xenophobic, misogynistic bigot that hates women, blacks and every other ethnic group. That is just not the truth and we know it is not the truth. Michael Cohen, he is executive vice president and special counsel now, who happens to be my very best friend, he and I were talking one day and he birthed it, he gave birth to the idea out of his .

He said, you know what? I wish we could get people together in some type of coalition that would let America know that we don't hate Donald Trump. We do support Donald Trump. And so we put legs on this. I contacted a few friends. The idea took shape.

Now, it started off as a minority coalition for Trump. But then I said we can't be inclusive of minorities that we're exclusive of white people. So we changed it to the Diversity Coalition. And, believe me, it seems as if God just sent people from the north, the south, the east and the west to say we support Donald Trump.

And he's allowing us to be his eyes and ears in our respective communities. We have several initiatives that we're advancing. Urban revitalization. Jobs. Crime. Education. All these things that we are advancing, and he's allowing us a platform to present these to him. He's taking them into consideration and going to be build upon them and they will affect his policy-making.

BALDWIN: OK. So you just heard what this is all about here from the pastor who was there and speaking, just to set it up for everyone.

Gloria, let me ask you and I want to pivot to the delegates and we know that Donald Trump is accusing Ted Cruz of whining and dining these delegates and seems to be outmaneuvering Trump with all these numbers.

My question to you is, is the notion of doing that really new or is it just we haven't had to have this conversation because you essentially have a candidate who has locked up the nomination and so you don't worry about bound and unbound delegates and one round and two rounds of votes at a convention?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, look, there's nothing new about this.

What is new, as you know, is, this hasn't happened since 1976. Right?

BALDWIN: Right.

BORGER: And so I think what Donald Trump has done when you think about it is, he's sort of set up this notion that the system is rigged because, you know, he's not playing the delegate game.

I think what Donald Trump is doing is trying to play the 1,237 game. He wants to get to that number or close to that number. So, he's got the Republican National Committee here playing defense, to a certain degree, right? Because the Republican National Committee chairman, Reince Priebus, in now a back and forth with Donald Trump over the system being rigged or not being rigged.

You have RNC members fighting each other whether they should change a rule or not a change a rule. And you have Donald Trump in the meantime trying to win as many delegates as he can to get towards 1,237. Cruz doesn't have that opportunity because he's likely, particularly after New York, and you have all these Northeastern states coming up -- you know, Cruz is only game is really delegate game.

Trump has another game to play right now and that's getting to the magic number.

BALDWIN: But what about to that point? Katie, to you, sort of springboarding off Gloria's point. Paul Manafort is this veteran who Trump, as we all know, hired to be his campaign manager. And the whole point is to outmaneuver the outmaneuvering when it comes to the delegates.

[15:10:03]

BALDWIN: Why do you think they're not there yet? He's been hired, what, for two weeks now?

KATIE PACKER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think part of the problem is last time Paul Manafort engaged on a convention floor was 40 years ago, when he was 25 years old, and he's a much older guy that has been spending a lot of time lobbying for terrorist groups since then.

But that said, you know, the truth about this whole delegate game that Donald Trump is playing is that he's either lying or he's completely misinformed and doesn't understand the process. This isn't a new process. Mitt Romney and our campaign in 2012 very active in making sure that the delegates to the convention were people that were Romney delegates.

This is something every campaign does. Campaigns matter and this is something that the Trump campaign has just ignored for the last year. And now they find themselves in a race to catch up. And it's a real problem for them because it does all come down to the magic number of 1,237. If the system is rigged in any way, it's sort of rigged to help the person that's the front-runner.

And yet Donald Trump hasn't been successful at closing this deal, even though he's been the front-runner for several months. So, if there's anybody who the system is in favor of, it's a guy that wins 35 percent of the vote in Florida, but gets 100 percent of the delegates and he's complaining about, you know, caucuses and conventions that no establishment candidate has ever advocated for.

So, the idea that the establishment has pushed these rules that have been in place for well over a year is just nonsense and it's just a lie being pushed by the Trump campaign.

BALDWIN: OK. So, there's this whole conversation that we will continue to have. We haven't had these conversations in, you know, as Gloria points out, 40 or so years.

But then, Pastor Scott, because ultimately we will land in Cleveland at a convention.

SCOTT: Yes, my hometown. Yes.

BALDWIN: Your hometown. Thank you very much, home to the Roll Hall of Fame. Big fan of that.

When we heard Donald Trump say -- and I just want to quote him -- he wants to put some showbiz into the convention in Cleveland, what do you think he means by that?

SCOTT: A lot of things he says are tongue in cheek. Put some showbiz into it means that there is probably going to be a lot of drama in the convention in Cleveland if he does not get that 1,237 magic number.

In response to what our other guests were saying, you know, these rules for these delegates were meant to be default rules, if someone by the fair and legitimate process doesn't arrive at the number, we have a default plan to fall back on.

Rules aren't made to be manipulated. These rules are being manipulated right now. Trump's not running against -- he was running against 17 candidates. Now he's running against an entire party.

BALDWIN: Katie's shaking her head. Katie, Katie, jump in.

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT: Katie can shake her head all she wants to.

(CROSSTALK)

PACKER: These are not default rules. These are the rules that are required to become the nominee.

(CROSSTALK) SCOTT: You have never you have never seen, Katie, one candidate say, don't vote for me. Vote for him, so he doesn't win. That's manipulation.

PACKER: Of course. I have seen that happen in other campaigns. Of course I have seen that happen.

SCOTT: Katie, it's a conspiracy, a C-O-N-spiracy.

(CROSSTALK)

PACKER: There's a conspiracy against a wealthy billionaire Manhattan developer?

SCOTT: It's a conspiracy against Trump. They didn't expect him to be here.

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT: Now they're into panic mode.

PACKER: The notion that this guy, that is one of the wealthiest guys in the country that owns half of Manhattan, that there's some conspiracy against him, there's not a conspiracy.

SCOTT: There is.

PACKER: There is a desire for there to be a principled conservative that is leading the Republican Party and that can win the White House

And for all the talk about diversity, I'm sure that there are African- American voters and Hispanic voters and Muslim voters and women voters that might support Trump, but it's ignoring the data which says he has historically high negatives with all of these groups that spell gloom and doom for the Republicans in a general election.

That's the problem that a lot of people have with this candidate.

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT: But I have my ear to the streets and I talk to the man on the street and that data is very misleading.

There are more for Trump than that data would lead one to believe. And this coalition demonstrates that fact right there.

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT: Do you know what? Donald Trump talks less about race than any other of the candidates do.

PACKER: He talks a lot about polls.

SCOTT: Bill Clinton said something that was very negative to the black community. Hillary Clinton and them told a joke about C.P. time and it was dismissed. If Donald Trump had told that same joke, you would be calling him to

resign. Hillary Clinton says it, they pooh-poohed it. Bill Clinton says something in response to Black Lives Matter. He accused the drug dealers in the '90s of turning 13-year-old children into crack heads and he gave this idea--

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: We have talked about that. And he has apologized.

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT: And that was not the truth at all. But if Donald Trump does this, it's a national outrage. It's not a conspiracy, because usually conspiracies are covert. This is an open conspiracy. It's wide open and everybody's in on it.

BALDWIN: C-O-N-spiracy, quote of the day.

SCOTT: Yes.

BALDWIN: Pastor Scott, thank you.

Katie Packer, thank you.

Gloria Borger, thank you.

[15:15:00]

Of course, tune in all day tomorrow for CNN's live coverage of the New York primary. Thank you all.

Just ahead, we will jump into, best as we can, Donald Trump's producer head. What would showbiz in Cleveland at the big convention, what would that look like? We're getting a little creative today. We're in New York, so I have a Broadway producer standing by. He will join me live on what he would do to throw the year's biggest political party.

Plus, I will speak with a gay man that confronted Ted Cruz over whether the candidate would protect him and his husband. See what happened and whether he approves of Cruz's response.

And I will take you to a place where your teeth rattle, on the front lines in the war against ISIS. See what happens when the U.S. Navy invited me for an exclusive two-day embed in the Persian Gulf. Rare access. Can't wait to show you coming up on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Ted Cruz accused of dodging a question from a married gay Republican who asked him on live television what Senator Cruz would do to protect his rights in the face of controversial religious liberty laws. Watch. [15:20:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD CALONGNE, REGISTERED REPUBLICAN: I have noticed a lot of religious freedom laws and somewhat institutionalized discrimination laws happening around the country. What would you as president do to protect me and my husband from that institutionalized discrimination?

CRUZ: Well, listen, when it comes to religious liberty, religious liberty is something that protects every one of us. It is the very First Amendment, very first phrase protected in the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights.

And religious liberty applies to Christians. It applies to Jews. It applies to Muslims. It applies to atheists. And all of us, we want to live in a world where we don't have the government dictating our beliefs, dictating how we live. We have a right to live according to our faith, according to our conscience. And that freedom ultimately protects each and every one of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, shaking his head a little bit still listening to Ted Cruz, I can tell, Todd is with us. He is a Louisiana boy originally. Moved to New York from Washington four years ago and owns a piece place here, lifelong Republican. Still undecided.

Nice to meet you, sir.

CALONGNE: Thank you. Nice to be here.

BALDWIN: First of all, I'm guessing, shaking your head hearing it again, did he dodge you?

CALONGNE: Well, he's on the wrong side of history.

Clearly, he doesn't know what to say when somebody says, are you going to support me as a president of all the people or are but just be kind of a right-wing conservative as a president?

BALDWIN: Are you lifelong Republican?

CALONGNE: Yes.

BALDWIN: Are you having leanings?

CALONGNE: I mean, so far, we -- the problem with the Republican Party right now is they put me a box. Right? I have three choices. One doesn't look like he's got a shot. Trump has quite a lead, and then you have--

BALDWIN: The man you talked to this morning.

CALONGNE: -- the man I just spoke to this morning, who didn't impress me. BALDWIN: So, process of elimination, are you leaning Trump?

CALONGNE: Yes. I'm leaning Trump. That's what I said this morning, too. I have to lean Trump, because there's really not a lot of options right now.

But I would love to know what Trump says on my issue. Maybe you should tweet him.

BALDWIN: How would you like Donald Trump to answer that very same question?

CALONGNE: I would like Donald Trump to -- the thing is, the federal government is going to have very limited ability to change anything, so what I would love for a presidential candidate to say is, through the leadership of being the president, I would be speaking in a way that's accepting and allowing of people to, you know, buy cakes on their wedding day or whatever the problems with some of these discrimination laws are or religious freedom laws.

BALDWIN: What holds you back from going all in on Donald Trump?

CALONGNE: Maybe some of the rhetoric in the past.

And you feel like -- I feel like there's a negative -- there's a negative bias against him. So, it's hard to say I'm for Trump, but a lot of people will say I'm for Trump and they kind of whisper it.

BALDWIN: Like kind of whispering?

CALONGNE: Yes. I think that's where I'm at right now, but I'm still registered Republican. I'm going to vote tomorrow and I'm going to do my best.

BALDWIN: What do you -- I know you say you watch CNN. Thank you very much for that.

CALONGNE: Of course.

BALDWIN: What do you make of just being a New Yorker? It's been a bit of a circus the last two weeks in New York with the candidates coming through. It's been fascinating to cover, but just this election overall.

CALONGNE: Well, it's shocking to see New York has taken a part in it, because I have--

BALDWIN: It's been years, decades.

CALONGNE: Yes. I have worked with elections in the past, and we never touched on New York. It was just a--

BALDWIN: It never mattered, at least on the Republican side.

CALONGNE: Yes. It was a Democratic state. And maybe it mattered for a primary. But that was about it. But it's really amazing to see, just to see the Hillary and Bernie and Trump and Cruz stuff everywhere, yes.

BALDWIN: Saturated.

CALONGNE: It's exciting.

BALDWIN: All right. Todd Calongne, we will follow up with you and see which you go down the road.

CALONGNE: See who I voted for?

BALDWIN: Thank you very much.

CALONGNE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Nice to meet you.

Coming up next, protesters gather outside the Supreme Court as a divided bench hear arguments today about President Obama's controversial actions on immigration. Find out which way the justices could be leaning here.

Plus, the U.S. Navy gives me special access on board a U.S. aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf, its mission, help destroy ISIS. Hear from the brave men and women making incredible sacrifices to keep us safe -- my journey to the Middle East coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:28:32]

BALDWIN: Major legal battle today before the United States Supreme Court. Justices heard oral arguments in a case that could keep about four million undocumented immigrants from being deported.

Protesters on both sides of the issues rallied outside the courthouse today there in Washington, while inside, lawyers made their case on whether executive actions taken by President Obama two years ago are, in fact, constitutional.

CNN's justice correspondent, Pamela Brown, is in Washington following all the developments for us.

What happened today, Pamela?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: You know, Brooke, this is a case that not impacts millions of people in the United States, but it has broad implications for the relationship between the president and Congress.

And during the 90 minutes of oral arguments, it was intense. You could feel how high the stakes are and the justices seemed divided along ideological lines as they grappled with that question you pointed out about whether the president has the authority to not only shield 4.3 million undocumented immigrants from deportation, but also give them the ability to work, as well as benefits.

And the conservative justices seemed very skeptical of that and seemed to believe that that's really the job of Congress, not the president. In fact, at one point, Justice Kennedy said this seems like the president coming up with a policy and Congress is executing it here. That's just upside-down.

But, on the other hand, the liberal justices sided with the administration. There are 11 million undocumented immigrants in the United States. The Constitution gives the president prosecutorial discretion to manage immigration issues. And so the administration argues that's what it's doing here with these programs.