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Charges Filed in Flint Water Crisis; Trump, Clinton Advance Toward Nominations. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 20, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:49]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we continue on. You are watching CNN on this Wednesday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

Let's begin with the race for the White House. Might have just gotten a tad more clear after Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton really trounced their opponents in the New York primaries. For the Democrats, Secretary Clinton is closer than ever to clinching the nomination, winning 58 percent of the vote and 139 of the pledged delegates up for grabs. And it was a sweet win.

She said New York was personal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In this campaign, we have won in every region of the country.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: From the North, to the South, to the East, to the West, but this one's personal.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: For the Republicans, it was a crushing victory for Donald Trump in his home state, adding 89 more delegates to his growing total, but the celebration short-lived.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm flying tomorrow morning to Indiana. I'm going to Pennsylvania. I will be all over, so we're going to celebrate for about two hours. Then, early in the morning, I get up and we begin working again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Well, right now, he is there in Indiana holding a rally in Indianapolis. The state's May 3 primary could matter more this go- around than it has perhaps ever.

I have Ryan Young, who is live outside the Indiana State Fairgrounds, where Donald Trump is expected to speak any minute.

I'm hearing shouts. I'm assuming those folks behind you protesters. Set the scene for me, Ryan.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we're definitely out here live and they are protesters, showed up about the last half-hour.

If you look at this crowd here, this protest is one of the smallest protests that we have seen so far against Donald Trump. And you can see the line that they have created here. They decided to make sure that the anti-Trump protesters stay on this side and they have been able to line up here and chant as much as they want.

On the other side here, you see the state troopers from the area who lining this area, making sure folks who are streaming in, by the way, to see Donald Trump can go up this way. Now, we have seen a couple interactions between this crowd and that crowd, people saying, hey, we want to support you, people saying, Trump must go.

That's the conversation out here. There is actually an announcement that was made just in the last 20 minutes or so from the Trump campaign. There are speakers from the outside where we can hear the announcement. The announcement said simply this. If there's a protester on the inside, please hold up a side and say Trump, Trump, Trump, and somebody will come and get them.

The whole idea here is they don't want any violence between the two groups and that's something they have stressed already -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, two pictures there in Indianapolis. We will stay in close contact with you and wait to see Mr. Trump speaking there as well. Thank you, sir.

For now, even after Donald Trump's big blowout in New York, still remains to be seen if he can clinch that nomination ahead of a potential contested convention. The breakdown as it stands now, Trump leads Cruz and Kasich. He has 847 pledged delegates, but he still needs 390 more to reach that 1,237, that magic number, that threshold, or else it will be a fight in Cleveland.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We don't have much of a race anymore based on what I'm seeing on television. Senator Cruz is just about mathematically eliminated.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know what?

QUESTION: What's that response?

CRUZ: The math is virtually impossible for Donald Trump. Donald Trump is not getting to 1,237. Nobody is getting to 1,237. The reason Donald is so scared is the last three weeks, and in particular the win in Wisconsin, put the nail in the coffin and made clear Donald doesn't get to 1,237.

[15:05:15] He knows that, which means this race is headed to Cleveland. It's

headed to a contested convention.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: With that said, let me bring in, she was up late last night, she is back with us today, CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash along with the Republican National Committee member Randy Evans. Randy is in South Florida at the final gathering of the RNC before the convention in July.

Nice to have both of you on.

And, Dana, let me just turn to you first and ask. We just heard the sound bites both from Donald Trump and then Ted Cruz. They are both right, right?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Technically, Ted Cruz is incorrect in saying that Donald Trump can't get to 1,237 before the convention.

Mathematically, Donald Trump still can. He's the only candidate in the race who still can. Ted Cruz was eliminated from that mathematical possible after last night.

BALDWIN: As of last night.

BASH: That's the mathematical answer to your question.

But then there's the realistic answer to your question. And it is going to be very, very difficult for Trump to do that. In fact, a senior Cruz aide said to me this morning, you know, look, is it possible? Sure. It's also possible for me to just leave my hotel room and go run a marathon, but it's not going to happen.

And so, you know, it's going to be something that his campaign is obviously working very hard on, and they are not going to give up, particularly when it comes to the biggest delegate, you know, bunch in California.

BALDWIN: Right.

BASH: Which is the very last option on June 7.

BALDWIN: I know. I'm trying to -- all these states and everything in my head.

BASH: Yes.

BALDWIN: So, we know -- next week, Randy to you, we know that next week, it's primarily Northeast states, which would be a tad more, you know, Trump-friendly and then the Midwest and then Indiana. Let me ask you about Indiana, because that's where Trump is here today after his big win in New York. Why is Indiana so important here?

RANDY EVANS, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE MEMBER: Well, because I think Indiana gets him a chance to actually put it away.

Indiana is a state that some have said leans towards Cruz due to the demographics. On the other hand, I think if Trump can -- if Donald Trump can come off a big win in New York and a big win in the Northeast and then he wins Indiana, I think he's well on his way to the 1,237.

BALDWIN: Let me stay with you because you are -- we will call you a delegate guru. I imagine you have Reince Priebus on speed dial or perhaps it's vice versa. We just saw this extraordinary sort of day in the life of the RNC chair care of our special correspondent Jamie Gangel.

And I'm just curious in your conversations with him and how well you know him, what do you think keeps him up at night with all of this?

EVANS: Well, I think that he's worked so hard to build a winning team for the fall, and he wants to make sure that Republicans come together after the convention, that we don't let the divisions come too deep, so that they are too difficult to overcome.

Remember, the very reason we moved the convention up from August to July was to give us more time to put the party back together, to heal wounds and focus on the general election against probably Hillary Clinton. And so I think to see all those plans in place, and they are designed to achieve a specific purpose, which is to give us the best chance to win, and then to face the possibility of a contested or open convention or even a recessed convention, where we have a stalemate and we have to reconvene, those have got to keep him up at night.

Remember, we only have the hall in Cleveland for a week. We only have hotel rooms for a week. And if we can't get it done in a week, we're either sleeping in tents or we're on the way home without a nominee.

BALDWIN: Oh, boy oh, boy. Let's hope that won't happen whatsoever.

Dana, to you, as I'm watching this live picture and the whole crowd has gathered in Indianapolis and they are waiting to see Donald Trump speak, you know, the tone was different last night.

BASH: Very.

BALDWIN: I want to just talk about that, no more lyin' Ted Cruz. It was Senator Cruz, talking about wanting to work for your vote, talking about jobs, although still maintains the system is rigged. Will we see more of that moving forward like today, you think?

BASH: I'm really fascinated to see what he does in this rally, to answer that question.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: Because it's it's hard to fathom a Donald Trump -- it's one thing to give a victory speech like he did, which was very different from what we have seen when he was in Mar-a-Lago in Florida the several evenings where he had press conferences and he was extremely, you know...

BALDWIN: The wine, the meat.

BASH: Yes, insulted everybody. It was all about his marketing and all about his name, and now he really appears to be kind of getting the idea that he's not just marketing himself the way he has for his entire adult life for the past, what, three decades and his company, but he's actually -- he needs to be a candidate, somebody who is bigger than, you know, his own brand.

But the one thing I will say is that, you know, Randy obviously is a member of the RNC, doesn't want doesn't want to, you know, kind of go there too much.

[15:10:15]

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: But I just want to underscore what he just said about Reince Priebus, the RNC chair, and everybody who is around him. They really did alter the calendar, alter the rules a little bit going into the entire 2016 race with the sole purpose of uniting the party early.

That's why their -- the convention is usually like around Labor Day. It's middle of July. That's one reason. They tried to, at least initially, limit the number of debates, change the amount of delegates a lot of these big states could take and allow them to do more winner- take-all.

And I don't want to say it backfired, but they never in a million years imagined this kind of scenario with Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: Randy, can you respond to some of that, that maybe you never saw this coming/tell me about we know that...

EVANS: Of course.

BALDWIN: Oh, you know, you're in Florida for a reason. Some of the private meetings begin today.

EVANS: Right.

BALDWIN: I believe Ted Cruz will be there today. Talk a little bit about that.

EVANS: Well, we have both Senator Cruz and Governor Kasich here. They will talk to us a little later this evening.

But I really do think we're at a critical moment in the campaign. I think if Donald Trump runs the table in the Northeast, and if he were to win Indiana, we would -- I disagree with whoever said they didn't think it was mathematically possible.

I think it becomes mathematically probable that Donald Trump gets to 1,237. Remember, we have a couple hundred unbound delegates.

BALDWIN: That's right.

EVANS: And at the end, those unbound delegates look for the winning team.

BALDWIN: That's right.

EVANS: Because they know that, for years, they have been on the inside. They have got an ultimate outsider about to go to the White House.

How do you get back to the inside? You push them over the top so they get the nomination? I think we will see a lot of that start to happen, and it will start to take shape I think in May, and we may make it to June in terms of the process, but I think we're going to start to see a clearer picture as the next two weeks unfold.

BALDWIN: Just so I'm clear, you said mathematically probable Trump reaching the magic number prior to July?

EVANS: If we see these -- if we see these polls continue in the way they are and the delegates, basically, I run 10 models, computer model scenarios, to see when is it going to be?

For example, last night, I was the first to say, and then AP corroborated it, that Ted Cruz had been mathematically eliminated from the 1,237. What I said this morning was, in eight of the 10 scenarios currently leading to the end of the cycle, in eight of the 10, Donald Trump gets well past the 1,237.

He actually gets up around 1,250, 1,255, so we will have to see how that plays out. If that turns out to be true, then a lot of the worries will go by the wayside. The bigger challenge then will be putting our party back together, because these kinds of primaries are always deep and divisive, but, at the end, you come together when you look and see who the other option is.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BASH: And can I just really quickly underscore what Randy just said about those unbound delegates?

BALDWIN: Yes, please. Right.

BASH: I know you have been talking a little bit about it because the entire -- all of the delegates in Pennsylvania, which will be next week, they are all unbound. I believe it's 54. That is huge.

EVANS: And 54 are unbound, and then we have the...

BASH: Yes. Go ahead.

EVANS: Yes, 54 are unbound, 54 are unbound, and then we have a small number, I think it's like 14, that are actually bound. They are state -- state -- but 54 are unbound.

And that goes with the Ben Carson delegates and the Rubio delegates and all of the other delegates that are unbound around the states.

BALDWIN: So, bottom line, for those playing along and trying to understand all of this at home, unbound meaning Pennsylvania could go one way, but ultimately those delegates could...

BASH: They don't have to do...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: ... ally with whoever they want.

BASH: Right. They can show up at the convention and say, never mind, I want to be with the winning horse. And at that point, it's Donald Trump, they could say I'm going with him.

BALDWIN: Dana Bash, thank you.

Randy, we will see you in Cleveland for two weeks in the tents, all right?

EVANS: Thank you. Absolutely. Thank you.

(LAUGHTER)

BALDWIN: I kid. I kid. Randy, thank you so much for the time. I particular it there Florida for us.

Back to Flint, Michigan here, breaking news out of Flint. Michigan Governor Rick Snyder expected to speak any minute about the felony charges filed today against those three officials in the city's lead water crisis. The attorney general saying this is only the beginning. We will take you live to Flint coming up next.

You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:16:42]

BALDWIN: OK. Want to take you out of commercial break just because we want to catch every bit of this. This is the governor there in Michigan, Rick Snyder, responding to these now criminal charges related to what happened in Flint.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

GOV. RICK SNYDER (R), MICHIGAN: If these accusations are correct, this would take it to a whole new level.

And one of the things we clearly want to pursue is the truth. The citizens of Michigan deserve it. The citizens of Flint deserve it. We have been fully cooperating with this investigation and we will continue to do so. And we will pursue any wrongdoing and hold people accountable.

Already today, Director Creagh has been suspended without pay the two individuals that work for the state of Michigan. In terms of the context of that, we have some constraints on our action due to civil service. With respect to Director Creagh himself, when he was appointed to head the DEQ, he made sure that the people that are mentioned in these charges were not involved with the Flint water situation anymore.

In addition, Director Creagh asked the Michigan State Police to investigate employees involved in the Flint water crisis and the DEQ, and that investigation has been ongoing and has been focused in on looking for any potential cases of misconduct and will be continuing through this process.

He's actually asked the state police to incorporate any new evidence that may be coming out of the investigations that is going on with the attorney general. One of the other things I would want to note is, we have tens of thousands of dedicated, hardworking state employees, and I hope this doesn't put a tarnish on the great work that they are doing every day to serve of the citizens of Michigan.

I very much appreciate their hard work, and this is a case where hopefully the accused misconduct of a handful will not create issues with tens of thousands of good, hardworking people doing the right thing to make Michigan a better state.

And with that, I will stop and see what questions you may have.

QUESTION: Governor, were you questioned as part of this investigation, and, if so, by whom?

SNYDER: With respect to this investigation, I have not been questioned or been interviewed at this point in time. Our office has been cooperating, as I mentioned earlier, with this investigation.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) Sinclair Broadcast Group.

Do you believe these three government employees failed Michigan families?

SNYDER: Well, again, I don't want to speculate. This is the process of investigations going on.

And we already had one of the individuals under investigation with respect to Stephen Busch, and that process hadn't been completed yet. We're going to continue with that investigation and also include the investigation of Mike Prysby.

QUESTION: Governor, Jonathan Carlson with WXYZ Detroit. With all due respect, some people, including some lawmakers in Washington, have called on you and some people in your administration to face charges. Do you think that is still fair, and do you think other people should face charges in addition to the people that were charged today?

SNYDER: Well, again, that's the point of having these investigations happen and cooperating with them.

There's the investigation by the attorney general. There's an investigation by the U.S. attorney, and, again, we're fully cooperating and supporting those two investigations in particular.

[15:20:04]

QUESTION: Governor, if I can follow up on that question, do you feel you did anything criminally wrong here?

SNYDER: Again, I don't even want to get into that kind of speculation. I don't believe so.

And so that point here is, is this is much my point about how I ended this, about saying I'm concerned about how this could go over with 47,000 employees in the state of Michigan that are working hard every day to do good things, and so I -- I think it's critically important that these investigations go forward, that as they find potential issues of wrongdoing, they be brought forward, that we go through the due diligence and the due process of determination what actually happened, because people deserve the truth and deserve the answers.

They want accountable government, and they should get it. At the same time, I also want to make sure that we're not casting a cloud over tens of thousands of state employees that are working very hard, and the same thing might be true of, you know, anyone in government service because they are playing important roles helping people.

QUESTION: Governor, do you know how many state employees have been advised to retain criminal defense attorneys, and what do you say to a large number of state employees that are starting to voice that they are very, very worried that this net is going to catch them, they could be charged? And how do you deal with potential morale issues?

SNYDER: That's one of the challenge points, and that's what -- one of the issues Director Creagh is doing as we speak. Again, he's making sure he's communicating with the DEQ, both in terms of addressing the suspension issues, but also talking to employees about making sure that we continue to do good work for the state of Michigan, for the people of Michigan.

QUESTION: Governor, M.L. Elrick, FOX 2 News in Detroit.

Clearly, there were bureaucratic breakdowns in this process, but what was your reaction when you heard that there may be criminality?

SNYDER: Well, it takes it to a whole new level, just as I said.

Again, you never want to see that happen. You never want to see a situation like Flint happen, to say there are criminal charges, but, again, these are the initial parts of this. These are charges, and we need to let due process work.

QUESTION: Were you surprised?

SNYDER: Again, I'm not going to speculate on all this. What I want to do is make sure we're following through to make sure the investigations are cooperated with fully, and we get the truth for the citizens and we see justice is done. QUESTION: Governor, as I understand it, the state has to provide

legal representation during civil proceedings involving state employees, but is not required to during criminal proceedings. None of these employees have been criminally charged. Do you think the state should continue to pay for their legal representation, and, if so, why? And, if not, why not?

SNYDER: Yes, to put that in context, our ability to actually suspend them without pay was triggered by the criminal charges being filed, as provided under civil service.

With respect to the legal counsel question, my understanding is that's a function of the department director, and that the way this is being viewed is, is the investigation is not complete. So those costs are being covered at this point in time, and that was a function of the state police investigation. That was previously began back in January, and as those...

BALDWIN: OK, so Governor Snyder responding here, you know, not really able to say a whole lot as this investigation is going on from the A.G. and also the U.S. attorney into the Flint water crisis that dates back a number of years.

But bottom-line headline here, he says, if these criminal, if these felony charges are true, he says it takes this to a whole new level.

Jean Casarez, let me just bring you in really quickly here to put a button on all of this and remind us what is at stake. What's happened?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, prison is at stake for these three employees that have been charged, and it takes to another level, because the lead just didn't get into the pipes, which got into the drinking water, that they knew...

BALDWIN: Tampering.

CASAREZ: That they knew or should have known what was being done, that they tampered with the evidence, that they changed reports, and led the people of the community, of Flint, that they must be wrong, seeing the dirty water, smelling, having medical issues.

I mean, it was allegedly...

BALDWIN: Changing the water level, changing the documents, correct?

CASAREZ: Yes, falsifying -- prosecutors saying falsifying , changing the documents to show and tell the community there's not too much lead in your water. You're OK. You're fine.

BALDWIN: Wow.

CASAREZ: Prosecutors are saying that's what they did, misconduct in office, that they misled the community, that they allowed the water to be that way. And these are five-year felonies, four-year felonies, very serious. And in regard to the question about, you know, could the governor be charged, it's sort of interesting, because in the civil complaint, there are so many defendants, one being the governor, but the director of the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality, water quality analysts, water treatment specialists, director of communications, emergency manager, director of public works.

[15:25:05]

BALDWIN: Yes.

CASAREZ: So, when they say the charges are not finished yet...

BALDWIN: The net could widen.

(CROSSTALK)

CASAREZ: Prosecutors said it could widen.

BALDWIN: The net could widen.

Jean Casarez, thank you.

We promise we will say on what's happening there in Flint.

Next, though, want to take you back to politics, Donald Trump expected to speak any minute now there at this rally, a day after his big win in New York, in Indianapolis. We will take you there live.

Also, the other big winner, Hillary Clinton, offering a bit of an olive branch to Bernie Sanders' supporters after her home state victory in New York. Can Democrats unite after this increasingly nasty primary fight?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.