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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Clinton and Trump Win in New York; All Eyes on Florida for GOP Meeting. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired April 20, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:00:25] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

There is a reason the New York primary is officially just called the biggie. Thanks to the voters there, it looks like Donald Trump, who was starting to coast, is back on a rocket ship right towards the Republican nomination today. And Hillary Clinton, after a seven-state losing streak, well, that's changed. She's now launched into almost game over territory.

And both of them have had, I think you can fairly say it, folks, blowout wins. Trump's support was so strong, it actually turned the empire state building Trump red. Take a look. So it didn't last long, though, because once the Democratic vote came in as well, this whole thing at CNN, which we worked out with the building, well then it turned blue. It's all about the election, folks. Ironic, though, The Donald dominating all of New York except the place he lives, Manhattan. That's right, his home borough actually voted for Governor John Kasich, the guy who was busted in New York for eating pizza with a fork. I guess all is forgiven for the - committing the ultimate sin under the New York City sun.

Here is the New York delegate numbers right to left. A big bagel. The zero for Senator Ted Cruz. He didn't even show up in New York on primary day, choosing instead to go to next week's battleground, Pennsylvania. Virtually no mention of New York from Cruz yesterday or today. He's officially moved on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: God bless the commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yes, he sure wants it.

As for the two big winners, make no mistake, they needed to win big. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump certainly did take their victory laps.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We don't have much of a race anymore based on what I'm seeing on television. Senator Cruz is just about mathematically eliminated.

As you know, we have won millions of more votes than Senator Cruz, millions and millions of more votes than Governor Kasich. We've won and now, especially after tonight, close to 300 delegates more than Senator Cruz. We're really, really rocketing (ph).

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In this campaign, we've won in every region of the country. From the north to the south, to the east to the west, but this one's personal.

The race for the Democratic nomination is in the home stretch and victory is in sight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: All right, time for our panel to get in here. Tara Setmayer, our political commentator and conservative strategist in the middle, but only where she's sitting. Scottie Nell Hughes with USA Radio Networks and who pulls for Donald Trump, sitting on the left, and definitely not really on the left. And also Charles Blow, not only our political commentator but who also writes a column for "The New York Times."

All right, you guys, I think a lot of the headlines are effectively say these are blowouts and I think everybody agrees these are blowouts, especially Clinton, winning by the margin she did. No one expected it. People did expect Trump maybe to have massive margins that he won with. But I think the big question, as we move out of New York is, is this race over? Are these now the presumptive front runners? Is it official? Can they start working general terms?

CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Me?

BANFIELD: Yes, you. That's what eye contact means. Blow by Blow.

BLOW: Exactly. Well, they've been to presumptive frontrunners. The only question was whether or not there was a path for either of the kind of second tier or second place runners to make a - make a play for it. New York made that incredibly harder for them to do.

Now, on the Republican side, Cruz actually, Trump is right, has no chance mathematically to get to the magic number. His play now is to simply say, I'll amass enough delegates to be a real player at the convention. And if Trump doesn't win on the first ballot, then maybe on the second, third, then maybe they turn to me because, you know, people really don't like him.

On the Democratic side, you know, Bernie had an argument that he was trying to make, which was that there would be a lot of momentum, there are a lot of people who he has the energy. He was doing better against Republicans in the general in the polls. Now, New York kind of squashes a bit of that. I mean takes a little bit of the air out of that. He, last week and before that, he was talking a lot about how she was a regional candidate, she was winning in the south but now he had moved out of the south. New York again says, you know, she's - she's playing well even in states that are not in the south. Any - any state that is - that has a diverse electorate, she plays well. And that is a problem for his arguments (INAUDIBLE).

[12:05:15] BANFIELD: And I'm going to talk a little more about the diversity too because she really nailed the black vote last night and Bernie Sanders did not despite a big, big effort. First, though, back to that Republican race, guys. The Cruz/Trump battle is just getting louder this morning, if you call tweets loud. I want to show you a couple of things that happened.

First, Donald Trump tweeted out what he thought about Ted Cruz this morning. And then Ted Cruz said something about Donald Trump fearing him. Let's go to the tweet first. Here's Donald's tweet this morning. "Ted Cruz is mathematically out of winning the race. Now all he can do is be a spoiler. Never a nice thing to do. I will beat Hillary," is what Donald Trump tweeted. So not to leave that unanswered, Ted Cruz said this about what he thinks Donald Trump feels about him. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald, right now, is terrified. It's the reason Donald won't debate, because he can't defend his policies. The math is virtually impossible for Donald Trump. Donald Trump is not getting to 1,237. Nobody is getting to 1,237. The reason Donald's so scared is the last three weeks, and in particular the win in Wisconsin, put the nail in the coffin and made clear, Donald doesn't get to 1,237. He knows that, which means this race is headed to Cleveland. It's headed to a contested convention.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Scottie Nell Hughes, is Trump terrified of Cruz? And I know he's not personally terrified of Cruz, but is he terrified of the cherry-picking mechanics that Ted Cruz has proven to be masterful at and there's no suggestion that he's not going to be masterful going forward?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, CHIEF POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, USA RADIO NETWORKS: No, I think you hit the nail on the head. And last night's speech, I guarantee, there was no terrify, there was no fear in his voice as he was - definitely took a very happy victory lap of a well-deserved race from yesterday.

Here's what's interesting about those numbers, Ashleigh. As you look at it, you have a sitting senator in Texas, a sitting governor in Ohio that cannot even get 50 percent of their own state to support them. And here in New York, more than 60 percent came out in support of Donald Trump. Also, back in 2012, Donald Trump amassed more than four times the votes than Mitt Romney. So we had motivated people to go to the polls in a close primary to vote for Donald Trump. He had proven time and time again that he can win in every part of this country.

So, yes, you hit the nail on the head, it's all about the political game that Mr. Trump might not have thought he was going to have to play. But, guess what? He's catching up and doing it masterfully. And we're going to find, going forward, that he's got a great team in place.

BANFIELD: He's catching up.

HUGHES: He (INAUDIBLE) delegates.

BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE) and he's hired a lot of the right people. He's hired the folks from 1976 who know what they're doing. Take a look at these numbers. You can't deny, 60 percent is a big, whooping victory, especially over 14 percent for Ted Cruz there.

"The New York Times," Tara Setmayer, came out with a fantastic headline that you can't miss, Sanders and Kasich, you're expecting them to say should drop out. No, the opposite, should ignore any pressure to quit. And let me just read quickly for you sort of the nut graph (ph), as we like to call it. "Refusal to anoint a frontrunner in either party appears in poll after poll as dispirited voters declare they simply don't like Mr. Trump, Mr. Cruz, or Mrs. Clinton. This should be a wake-up call to leaders of both parties. They're missing something big about their own member's priorities and their mood. A spirited nominating season might teach them what voters actually want from their president." Stay in the race. It's the democratic thing to do, even though it makes us all crazy.

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, I'm not going to defend their motivation for staying in the race. That's their prerogative. And - but just - you know, just to clarify a couple of things that Scottie said. So, yes, Donald Trump won his home state, but Ted Cruz won twice as many votes in Texas, in his home state of Texas, than Donald Trump did in all of New York. He also did it - Trump - Cruz did it with 17 people in the race. Donald - Ted Cruz won 13,000 more people in Wisconsin than Donald Trump did in New York. So we need to like put things in perspective here. It is not over. It's not over.

Going into - everyone expected it was baked into the cake that Donald Trump would do well today - I mean yesterday. He'll do well next Tuesday. But then you're going to hit May. And in May, things change. It swings - the momentum swings back to Ted Cruz in Oregon, in - Oregon, Washington, Indiana, these are places where Donald Trump is not very well organized. I mean in Washington state, they sent out - the campaign sent out notices two days after the deadline for four delegates to get on their slate there. So he does - so you're going to look at, in May, wow, Donald Trump might get 950, 970 at most. Then, after that, he needs to win 80 percent in order to make 1,237. So this is far, far from over.

And something else that was interesting last night about Donald Trump. He was very thrilled about the fact that he won New York. But do you know that New York is probably the least democratic state when it comes to selecting delegates? The entire state party selects the delegates. Voters don't select the delegates. They don't have caucus - precinct caucuses, like they did in Wyoming and Colorado, where actual voters go and they pick the delegates. The state party bosses, the ones that (INAUDIBLE) -

[12:10:04] HUGHES: OK, hold on - let me - that's not true. That's not technically true.

SETMAYER: Are corrupt are the ones - yes, yes, it is.

HUGHES: It is the congressional districts -

SETMAYER: They've changed it.

HUGHES: It's the congressional districts. Those chairmans that pick it.

BANFIELD: Yes. (INAUDIBLE)

HUGHES: Not the state party.

SETMAYER: Who are the - wait, who are the chairmen?

HUGHES: Big difference. There's a big difference between -

SETMAYER: They are party - he calls them party elites and corrupt just like he did -

HUGHES: No, he calls the state party. There's a difference.

SETMAYER: (INAUDIBLE) Colorado and Wyoming (INAUDIBLE).

BANFIELD: Can I - (INAUDIBLE) thing I talked about before, which was (INAUDIBLE) in the minority vote -

HUGHES: It's a big difference.

SETMAYER: Not really.

HUGHES: You need to be correct.

BANFIELD: In the Democratic race.

BLOW: I'm enjoying this.

BANFIELD: I know, me too. (INAUDIBLE) to interrupt that. (INAUDIBLE).

HUGHES: It does matter.

BANFIELD: Do I need to get -

(CROSS TALK)

HUGHES: Changing the (INAUDIBLE) of the party.

SETMAYER: Oh, now it's - not there's -

BANFIELD: How you doing?

SETMAYER: That it's (ph) not corrupt anymore because of the state - this county chairman -

BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE).

HUGHES: Because they're actually reflecting the vote of the people. That's the difference of it.

BANFIELD: You're going to have to go back (INAUDIBLE) -

SETMAYER: Party bosses.

BLOW: OK.

BANFIELD: I do want to - I do want to ask this question. I teased it before and I - and I - there was a reason. Bernie Sanders, when he was coming into New York, you alluded to it, the minority vote. He went all out, Charles Blow. He had Spike Lee out there with this phenomenal commercial. I think Rosario Dawson was in it. A couple of other really big celebrities. Harry Belafonte, Danny Glover. He had Ben Jealous stumping for him, the former NAACP president. And if you look at these numbers, Hillary Clinton got 75 percent of the black vote in New York for the Democrats and Sanders couldn't pull in more than a quarter.

BLOW: Right. So that -

BANFIELD: So is that his story going forward, I mean it's just not going to happen? If you can't do it in New York -

BLOW: It's - well, it's not - it doesn't look like it's going to happen among minority voters, right? Particularly black voters. It is better than what he did in the south. In the south he was getting about 14 percent or 15 percent. At least here he's getting about 20 percent, you know, 25 percent in New York. Some - in some other Midwestern states, he's gotten 20 - over 20 percent. But it is not cracking anywhere near what he needs it to crack in order for him to carry these states.

BANFIELD: It would have been New York if it were to be anywhere, right?

BLOW: It would - it would - and you - and you would think so because you had, like you said, you have these very big cultural icons who come out in his favor.

BANFIELD: Yes.

BLOW: But that is not swinging the base vote and I think that what I described as before as the kind of functional pragmatism among the black voters, they really have - they don't - they don't trust big dreams. They kind of trust things that they believe that will actually happen because there's a big gap between what is promised to them and what is actually delivered to them.

BANFIELD: OK, I'm going to leave it there, but there is definitely a Scottie Nell Hughes/Tara Setmayer show in the offing, without question.

Thank you. And thank you, Charles Blow, as well. Appreciate it.

BLOW: Thank you.

BANFIELD: I want to go to Ron Brownstein now, CNN's senior political analyst and senior editor at "The Atlantic."

So, Ron, a couple of things that I wanted to touch base with on you. When I was watching last night, all of the various speeches and the comments that came out, it's hard not to notice that Donald Trump gave a really short speech.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

BANFIELD: Usually, they are very long. When he's winning, you know, he's just (INAUDIBLE) it was short, it was to the point, it was policy-based. Is this the way he needs to be? Is he taking direction from these new and veteran folks that he's brought on to his campaign?

BROWNSTEIN: You know, it certainly looks that way. I mean, you know, they had a very unconventional campaign to start with the big rallies, not supported by a lot of organization underneath. That might have worked if Donald Trump had steam rolled the field, but, in fact, he got stuck somewhere at around 40 percent of the vote.

Yo know, last night, Ashleigh, was the first time that he had reach the majority of the vote in any primary. There's no question he has a bigger piece of the party than anybody else, but he's a plurality frontrunner, not a majority frontrunner. And that has left him really on the knife's edge of whether he's going to get over that first ballot majority. So they need clearly a more professional operation because every delegate matters. He's not really running against Ted Cruz anymore, who has no chance of getting to a first ballot majority. He's running against himself and whether he can get there or not.

BANFIELD: And you know that he is running literally on a shoe string and not putting any money into TV advertising -

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

BANFIELD: Has done extraordinary well and the game is getting different. It's getting more strategic.

BROWNSTEIN: Right.

BANFIELD: I want to show you the GOP advertising spending for New York. It's pretty remarkable. Kasich spent a total of $837,000 advertising in New York, did very well with it as well. Ted Cruz only spent $361,000. But the bigger number is zero.

BROWNSTEIN: That's amazing.

BANFIELD: And that's what Trump spent advertising in New York to come out with 60 percent of the vote here.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. BANFIELD: But do you expect, like I just said, the game is changing. It's getting strategic. It's delegate-based. Do you expect that he's going to start spending a lot more money advertising or on figuring out ways to woo those delegates?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, those - I think both. And there are accounts that reports that he is going to, in fact, be investing in California, which looms at the end as the critical, final step if he can get over that 1,237.

The really important thing about New York was not only did it reaffirm Donald Trump's strengths, he won over 60 percent of white voters with a college education, which has been his dominant group all throughout, but it reaffirmed the limitations on each of his challengers, particularly Cruz, and it made Wisconsin look like a one-off. What was so unique in Wisconsin was that it was the first state with an exit poll where Ted Cruz won most voters who are not evangelical Christians.

In New York, he was back down to 12 percent among them. In the poll out today in Connecticut by Quinnipiac, he's only at 17 percent among voters who are not evangelicals. And what that means is that he has a - he's going to have a lot of difficulty competing in the northeast. New York is probably a preview of a very bad Tuesday to come next week because there aren't a lot of those evangelical Christian voters that he relies on.

[12:15:14] So Trump has a clear advantage. The question is whether it is big enough to get him over the top because - in that first ballot, because he has not grown in the way the previous frontrunners have towards 50 percent of the vote on a consistent basis.

BANFIELD: Ron Brownstein, always good to have you. Thank you.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

BANFIELD: So you think all the bickering over party rules and delegates doesn't matter? It actually means everything, which is why the Republican leaders are huddling at a very nice resort in Florida this week. Find out exactly what they're up to, what they're talking about pool side and how that makes its way into a big list that gets sent to that very fascinating rules committee.

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BANFIELD: All eyes are on Florida right now, and it's not for a vote. It's the Republican Party's most powerful and influential members who are getting together for this annual spring meeting. It's sort of a tri-annual thing. And it's kind of run-of-the-mill. It doesn't usually get a lot of attention. But a key part of the gathering is that the members of the RNC committee are going to consider whether to recommend changing some of those rules for the convention this summer. Oh, boy, can of worms, because those rules could impact how the nominee is actually selected.

[12:20:16] For his part, Paul Ryan, who will chair the conventions, speaker of the House, is taking on the claims by Donald Trump that this whole process is what Trump says, "rigged."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: I think the rules are the rules. And people know the rules going into it. We are going to follow the book by the rules, and that is exactly how this convention's going to be run. It's very important that it's done exactly that way.

MANU RAJU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Are you concerned in any way about how messy this could be in a second or third ballot? Even Donald Trump running (INAUDIBLE).

RYAN: I really don't spend my time thinking about this. I'm too - as you can tell, I'm a little busy with my day job. So this is something that's outside of our control. It very well may be that somebody gets 1,237 delegates before the convention and then this whole open convention question is closed. But maybe we'll have an open convention. If we do, we will deal with the situation as it arises.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I want to spring in Sean Spicer, chief strategist and communications director for the RNC.

Sean, thanks so much for being with me today and welcome from sunny Florida.

SEAN SPICER, RNC CHIEF STRATEGIST & COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: You bet. It's beautiful to be here.

BANFIELD: My first question to you is - I'll bet it's nice outside. I want to get your feeling for what things are like as you go into those meetings because the behind the scenes reporting is that it is an all- out brouhaha between your members about whether you should keep the rules or stuff the rules for new ones. What's going on in there?

SPICER: So, generally speaking, what happens is every four years the RNC makes recommendations to the convention rules committee about changes that are suggested. And they truly are that, just suggestions and recommendations. Chairman Reince Priebus has suggested that the RNC forego that and leave all decisions to the elected delegates.

BANFIELD: I know that the technical reason for that, Sean, is that, you know, Reince Priebus is saying publically, look, this is such a keg of you know what that if we change anything at this point, all eyes are on us and it could really be problematic. So let's just keep it all in place.

But there are others who say, keeping it all in place just keeps all the power with the big party brass to be able to wrangle things their way and even bring in what they call a white night at the end of the day in the - in the convention. So that's why I'm saying it is very clear to those watching this process there are two divergent sides within the RNC meeting. What's going to come out of it, a set of new rules for the rules committee or a blank piece of paper? SPICER: Well, again, recommend - understand that nothing is going to

come out except the potential of recommendations. And as I said, the chairman has been very clear that he believes all of the discussion should be left to the elected delegates. The idea that the RNC should get in the middle and create any sense that something's being done that might potentially, you know, support or oppose one particular campaign is not a good idea. We should leave all the decisions to the elected delegates who have been chosen by the Republican grassroots voters from coast to coast.

So I think that there's going to be - there's a lot of attention here because I think that, frankly, there's nothing else to talk about. What you're going to see what comes out this week, which is going to be the RNC largely deferring to the delegates who have been elected and allowing that conversation to occur in Cleveland this summer.

BANFIELD: The strange thing is, is that everything seems very upside down, Sean, because when Reince Priebus says, look, leave it the way it is, let's not mess around, let's not get involved, it's exactly getting involved. You know, the charge from Donald Trump, that these existing rules make the process rigged. And he says it allows people like Ted Cruz, who are not winning in the numbers, to go and, say, offer free travel to the convention to get a delegate to be on his side, say a second ballot. And he says that's rigged and we need change. So is it possible -

SPICER: Look -

BANFIELD: That say this guy, I've read about him, he sounds fascinating, Solomon Yue, who is from Oregon I believe, who wants you to toss out the existing rules that mic the House and go with something called the Roberts Rules of Order. We're all getting great civics lessons. But Roberts Rules of Order, for his part, he says they're a lot more democratic and they take the power away from the big RNC bosses.

SPICER: Well, it's - a couple things. Number one, the rules in the process we're using is the same rules and process we've used since 1856. So not following this same procedure would actually be - would be changing the process. So I think that's one thing to keep in mind.

Second, the current process does allow for the majority to have its will of delegates to win on everything. So whether it's the rules, the platform, whatever that is, all the issues that come up in Cleveland will all be decided by 1,237 delegates or a majority of those on the floor. So the majority of delegates, who have been elected by the Republican grassroots, are what's going to take - have their will in Cleveland this summer.

[12:25:00] The chairman's point in this is, nothing that's discussed here this week in Cleveland, as it pertains to the convention, will have an actual impact on what gets done in Cleveland. It would be merely recommendations. And then our job is to ensure that everyone sees that we are the fair arbiter of the process. So the less that we do to create confusion, the better. We need to make sure that everybody sees this process. Ashleigh, it hasn't happened since 1976. So for a lot of people, they're frankly unfamiliar with the process. We need to make sure that we do everything we can to educate people about what's going on and to do nothing to further cloud that process.

BANFIELD: OK, to educate them. So I'm going to just book you right here and now for when the Hollywood meeting is over and you can come out and talk to me about every single thing you guys talked about behind those closed doors. Is that OK, Sean?

SPICER: Absolutely. But, remember, they're not closed doors. CNN's got a camera inside.

BANFIELD: True.

SPICER: There's a CNN - or a bull (ph) camera. Nothing is happening in closed doors.

BANFIELD: But there are so many closed door sessions.

SPICER: No. But, look, I love the fact that we're out here discussing it.

BANFIELD: All right, Sean.

SPICER: It's a lot better to have a nice breeze.

BANFIELD: Yes.

SPICER: But there's no closed door meetings. Everything is open. Come on down!

BANFIELD: Oh, thank you for the invitation. I'd love to. Thank you, Sean Spicer. We'll talk to you in a few days, hopefully.

SPICER: You bet.

BANFIELD: OK, coming up next, after two years, after 100,000 people were first exposed to lead poisoned water in Flint, Michigan, there are several officials who are now facing criminal charges. The announcement from the prosecutors to come shortly.

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