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Court Rules Anders Breivik's Human Rights Being Violated; Obama Visits Saudi Arabia; Donald Trump's Change in Tone; U.S. Treasury Announces Plans to Change $10, $20, $5; Queen Elizabeth's 90th Birthday Celebrations Begin. Aired 1-2a ET

Aired April 21, 2016 - 01:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[01:00:11] JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles.

ISHAY SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: Ahead of this hour, Anders Breivik took 77 lives during a killing spree in 2011 but is now international outrage after court rules his human rights are being violated.

VAUSE: Also along with that, the U.S. President, Barrack Obama's visit to Saudi Arabia. We'll look at a frosty relationship between two powerful ally.

SESAY: And some U.S. currency is getting a face-lift in hope of trying to move beyond some dark moment in the Nation's history.

VAUSE: Hello, everybody, thanks for joining us. Great to have you with us. I'm John Vause.

SESAY: And I'm Isha Sesay. NEWSROOM L.A. starts right now.

VAUSE: The mass murderer behind Norway's worst attacks since World War II claims his human rights are being violated in prison.

SESAY: And the district court in Oslo agrees. Frederik Pleitgen has more on the decision that's sparking international outrage.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anders Breivik, one of the most notorious mass murderers in recent European history now a winner in court. The verdict is saying he's human rights were violated by the Norwegian government. That's because he's kept in solitary confinement and frequently searched.

We litigated and claimed that Breivik's isolation in prison is too heavy in relation to Norwegian government obligation under the commission of human rights and the Norwegian constitution, his lawyer said after the verdict was handed down. Breivik sued the Norwegian government claiming breaches of the European Convention on Human Rights which Norway is a party to. In its verdict, the court said, quote, the prohibition of inhumane and degrading treatment represents a fundamental value in democratic society. This applies no matter what, also in the treatment of terrorists and killers. And these are the conditions Breivik is incarcerated under in prison southwest of Oslo. He has three cells to himself, including an exercise area with machines, this for a man who killed 77 people in a rampage in 2011. Eight died when Breivik set off a bomb outside the government headquarters in Oslo. He then moved to Utoya Island where he gun downed 69 more, most of them international students.

In general, we are surprised that we disagree on the parts of the verdict against us, the government's lawyer said. The government argued that Breivik's conditions are appropriate saying he's still a threat requiring restrictive solitary confinement. State lawyer say they will appeal the verdict that also requires them to pay Breivik legal fees of around $41,100. While there is criticism and surprise about the verdict, one survivor of the Utoya Island shooting said he understands the court's reasoning.

BJORN IHLER, SURVIVOR OF THE UTOYA ISLAND SHOOTING: And I don't think we should give Breivik power to change how our system works. I think that's kind of wacky (inaudible). He wanted to have the power to change the system, to change our values in the way in which we treat people. And by maintaining our values and by treating Breivik like we treat any other prisoner, we show Breivik defines.

PLEITGEN: Anders Breivik who critics say used the human rights trials as a platform to promote his self-declared neo-Nazi agenda. His facing a maximum sentence of 21 years in prison but could remain lock up for even longer if he still deems a threat when that term is up. Fred Pleitgein, CNN, London.

VAUSE: Mad Andenas, the law professor at the University of Oslo is with us now live from London Bureau. Professor, thank you for joining us. Norway government (inaudible) side of it will appeal this decision. But let's take the emotion and the facts out of this case, just sort of the law alone, was the court correct in making this ruling?

MADS ANDENAS, UNIVERSITY OF OSLO PROFESSOR: The court look dispassionately at the Norwegian law relating to this kind of isolation regime and Norwegian law requires that you assess every restriction and you have to decide whether it is necessary and proportionate. And that's exactly what the court did. The case was well-argued in the sense that the court new the facts. It was well- argued on the law. But what the state did not offer were sufficient reasons to satisfy the court that set of these restrictions really weren't necessary and proportionate.

[01:05:00] And it includes a number of controls which were repeated. In the first period of his detention, he was woken throughout the night. And even today, he only speaks to his lawyer through a glass door. He speaks to visitors through a glass window. And the court then says, "You have to assess this." Is it necessary? And we haven't seen the reasons. And then ...

VAUSE: OK.

ANDENAS: ... the major issue in -- which will have an affect on his future regime is that he's in a high security unit in a prison where he is the only high security prisoner. And the court said that, "Well, it's for the prison authority just to see if he should be in high security unit in a prison with other high security prisoners."

VAUSE: OK, let's take it from the other point of view there because, you know, well, you know, around the world, there is pretty much astonishment at what happened here. You know, this lunatic killed 77 people. He get's a three-room suite and a PlayStation. Breivik, in the past, has complained that his coffee is served too cold. He can't moisturize his skin. He's allowed to take university courses and then he complained that because he's in solitary confinement, he doesn't do as well as he should. Is it possible that Norway is being just too humane and sticking to this philosophy that every inmate is redeemable, that it's just them being too rigid here?

ANDENAS: Now, I have -- I share you impression completely reading the press conference. I was not there following the trial but I've read the judgment. And the judgment is bringing up the issues I just referred to in a very -- taken in a very cold, dispassionate look at this. It looks at, of course, applied the Norwegian law here. It looks at European Court of Human Rights authorities and it also looks at decisions by other international bodies.

And it does this in a way which is a model for any court, anywhere. Now, of course, everything they're looking to the ...

VAUSE: Sorry, please continue.

ANDENAS: Yes, so they did this in a way which is a model to a court anywhere. They did exactly do what the court should do, not being swayed by public opinion, but looking at the law and applying the law.

VAUSE: But, maybe this is my question, maybe the law is wrong, you know. Is there something here which needs to be addressed because one thing which I had also is that there has been some criticism within Norway about this decision by the court and the conditions for Breivik. But there's also being a lot of support for what the court has done there within in the Norwegian public. So, why is that?

ANDENAS: Well, you saw the young man who survived Utoya, terrible, of course, and he's answer was this, how do you deal with somebody like Breivik? You deal with him exactly the way the law requires. You should not subject him to a degrading and inhumane prison regime. You should not do anything the law prohibits because that will -- that's a victory for people like him. It's a victory for people who challenge the rule of law, who challenge our democracies. Have you meet these challenges? Will you meet them by more democracy? You meet these challenges by following the law exactly as it is, making new adaptations.

And it was very unfortunate with the press coverage. I must say, I was really amazed when I heard about the judgment. But reading the judgment, it is now under English version I'm sure very, very soon and I just recommend people to look at it and it will give you a completely different picture from what you heard. And also some of the journalists back in Norway who has now criticized the judgment. They really haven't criticized the judgment. It's this general impression you just referred to.

And as you said, many of the people who were really -- well, we're all affected by this in Norway as you can have from my voice but these people who were really, really deeply affected, who are very firm on the basic entities being observed. And the last point, of course -- can I just add one last point and that is, of course, human rights, not only for nice people. And, of course, we have many reasons not to like Breivik. That is why we need court to take this dispassionate look and apply the law and nothing but the law.

VAUSE: OK, so we leave it there. But that's a very good point and we appreciate it. Thank you very much.

[01:10:03] SESAY: Now in a few hours, U.S. President Barrack Obama will attend a summit with Gulf leaders where hei'll push for a roundup battle against ISIS.

VAUSE: He was meeting with the Saudi King on Wednesday. Michelle Kosinski reports the strange (ph) in relations between the two countries were clear from the very start.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: President Obama touchdown in the heat of Riyadh to a chill new Saudi King Salman there to great him. The royal was there earlier to great other Gulf leaders. No warm kisses as President Bush got and this is President Obama's fourth trip to the kingdom, the most by any U.S. President ever. A complicated relationship facing some serious strain lately. Senior royal, Prince Turki al-Faisal put it bluntly to CNN.

TURKI AL-FAISAL, AMBASSADOR OF THE KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA: There is going to have to be a recalibration of our relationship with America, how far we can go with our dependence on America, how much can we rely on steadfastness from American leadership.

KOSINSKI: He said there is no going back to how things were before even with the new president. The Saudi is already upset over the Iran nuclear deal, the U.S. negotiating with their biggest rival.

In Syria, unhappy President Obama didn't act on his red line over chemical weapon and strike President al-Sahhad (inaudible) over this recent article in the Atlantic that raised questions again over whether the president even sees Saudi Arabia as a real ally, whether he thinks they're pulling their weight against ISIS. He used the term riders add to that low oil prices in the U.S. importing less Saudi oil than in the past.

But then there is September 11th legislation pending in the Senate, although now on fold that would let American victims of terror sue Saudi Arabia. The White House and some top Republicans and, of course, the Saudi opposed it. But Hillary Clinton disagrees with the President on this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Obviously, we've got to make anyone who participates in or supports terrorism pay a price.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: Putting her on the same side as Ted Cruz who sponsors the bill. And now Saudi Arabia has threaten to sell off nearly a trillion dollars in U.S. assets if such a law pass. Family members of the victims of the 9/11 hijackers of whom 15 were Saudi have accused the U.S. government of letting them down. Also pending is the declassification of those 28 pages from the 9/11 commission report that could implicate some Saudis. Today, the prince responded.

AL-FAISAL: The Saudi government has been absolved by the September 11th commission. We have nothing to hide.

KOSINSKI: For all of that, the White House walked away from this bilateral meeting with the King and they felt really good about it. They said it was unusual unlike other meetings they've had with the Saudi. It was more than two hours long. It was broad, not perfunctory, they said, as these things can be. They're calling it a big clearing of the air on many of these issues that have caused such tensions between these countries. That doesn't mean that real solutions came out of this on the differences that still exist there. But at the very least, the White House is calling this progress in the relationship. Michelle Kosinski, CNN, Riyadh.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SESAY: Well, CNN Intelligence and Security Analyst, Bob Baer, joins us now. Bob, good to have you with us. As we just saw there in Michelle's piece, the Saudi King is no-show when the President touchdown in Riyadh driving home the strange relation between the two countries. Can you remember a time when the relationship was this bad?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: The last time, Isha, I've ever seen this bad was '73. It was the Oil Embargo. It was the time when Kissinger was saying, "One day, we may have to take over the Saudi oil fields." Things were really bad then. But I've never seen in sort of time come times relations this bad ever. We were talking going back to the, you know, the 40s.

SESAY: And is essential cracks of tension here what the Saudis perceived to be the U.S. pivot toward Iran. Is that what this is all about?

BAER: It is about -- it's all about Iran. And you know this last oil meeting in Doha was about Iran. The Iranians didn't show up. They weren't going to join in the freeze of oil output. And the Saudis killed the agreement simply because they don't want to see Iran produce 4 million barrels, continue to deploy its army around the Middle West. Saudi Arabia is all but cut relations with Lebanon because the Iranians are so powerful through their proxy (inaudible), and question that the Syrian Civil War is still going on. It's raging around the Iranian back forces and Iranian's, you know, forces all over our -- on the move and including Iraq. And so the President comes, President Obama and says, can you do more for us against the Islamic State? And Saudis would but they're getting no help on Iran, none at all.

[01:15:00] SESAY: And no help on Iran with that issue Islamic State. Do you see a mark stepping up of commitment from the Saudi Arabia? Can the U.S. expect that?

BAER: They probably promised to this meeting they're putting the best laws they can on it but the fact is there is not really a strong government in Baghdad and so many of the Iraqi Shia are under the influence of Iran. We're saying, you know, go in and rebuild Ramadi and Fallujah. And if we're going to Mosul, you rebuild that. And trust us, we're going to make Iraq work. And the Saudis have never liked this ever since the invasion in 2003.

So they have a long list of complaints and, frankly, they are legitimate. And on the other side, we've got the9/11 case. We still have no answers on how the 15 Saudis got on those planes, who recruited them. And there's big question of many going from the Saudi ambassador's wife to the hijackers and we've never got a good explanation how that happened.

SESAY: You know, we heard that senior member of the Saudi Royal family are calling for recalibration of the relationship. I think that is something that both sides would welcome. But when you look at it, can the U.S. recalibrate the relationship with Saudi Arabia to something that the U.S. wants and can actually benefit from?

BAER: It's just more than that. It's like where the Saudi is going to go. I mean they sent their forces in the Yemen. They have not been able to defeat the Houthis there. That was is a complete quiet mire (ph) for them. But they certainly can't -- you know, who are they going to drawn? Pakistan. And on the side of the equation, is Iran in Russia? I mean the Iranians are rearming faster than they have ever had since the Shah's (ph) time.

So they -- you know, between Iraq in a hard place, they really are.

SESAY: Bob joining us. That was some great insight. Thank you, Bob.

BAER: Thank you.

VAUSE: Let's have a break. When we come back, hundreds of migrants are feared dead in what could be one of the worst tragedies of its kind in the past year.

SESAY: Plus an Australian mother and a T.V. crew are now free after facing kidnapping charges in Lebanon. Details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(SPORTS HEADLINES)

SESAY: A strong explosion at the petrochemical plant in Mexico has killed three people and injured at least 60 others. It happened Wednesday in Veracruz State at a plan owned by the state oil company Pemex. The governor called it an accident. Some schools are close in several towns have been evacuated. VAUSE: The staggering toll from Saturday's earthquake in Ecuador has risen again. At least 570 people are now confirmed dead, more than 7000 had been hurt. And the President's word, it's hard to imagine the magnitude of this tragedy.

SESAY: In the nationwide address, President Rafael Correa announced its temporary earthquake tax and other measures to help pay for the rebuilding. He said it will take years but the short-term cause are significant.

VAUSEL: At least 500 migrants are feared dead after a ship sunk in the Mediterranean. The U.N. refugee agency says a merchant ship rescued 41 people. They told agency smugglers were boarding passengers from one ship to a bigger one when it capsized.

SESAY: It happened last week between Libya and Italy. The survivors, all African, were taken to Kalamata, Greece after drifting for as long as three days.

VAUSE: On other report T.V. journalists from Australia are now free on bail after facing kidnapping charges. Sally Faulkner says her ex- husband took their two children to Lebanon last year on vacation, never brought them back. She was arrested last week in Beirut after allegedly hiring a so-called child recovery agency to grab the children from the street. The crew Nine Network's 60 Minutes program was there covering the story.

SESAY: The father says that he now has full custody of the kids and has dropped all charges against his ex-wife and the journalist. Channel Nine interviewed them on their way to the airport.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TARA BROWN, CHANNEL NINE TELEVISION PRESENTER: I have had a chance to say hi to John. But not the kids yet and I can't wait to speak to them, obviously, though they have no idea about any of this. Yeah, and you know, it's great, it's great to talk to home. It is great to be going home.

SALLY FAULKER: I'm so glad to be out of there. I mean they treated us well. I can't say anything about that but it's the uncertainty that kept me awake at night, not knowing if it was going to be a lifelong sentence or what. Yes, it was nice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Australian media commentator, Peter Ford, joins us upfront now. Peter, good to speak with you again. One of the details on how the crew and the mother were released worrying about the (inaudible) station which, I guess, the network paid to the father.

PETER FORD, AUSTRALIA MEDIA COMMENTATOR: Yes, a lot of focus on that. Also today estimated how much it was, as little as $500,000, as much as $5 million. The father, the center of this, is saying publicly and he's giving a lot of interviews, saying, "I'm not getting a cent out of it." Nobody is really buying that. It clearly was money that did change him. And I think, generally, it's being perceived by most people as something they had to do. There was a massive problem here, a corporate problem, a human problem. The father was the chance to make it all go away to appease him or to compensate him, to buy him, bribe him, whatever you want to call it, he was the solution to fixing this so he was in a very, very good bargaining position.

VAUSE: And Peter, on the Channel 9 Instagram page, there is this photo of the T.V. crew celebrating they're about to head home but not in that photo, the men from the so-called child recovery unit. What is their faith right now?

FORD: Well, they are still in jail and, in fact, Sally Faulker, the mother, the center of the story, she is still in Lebanon. She's not in prison anymore but she will say goodbye to her children for the immediate future in a few hours time. And those two men who were the centerpiece of the operation to kidnap those kids, they still have to stay and face their music. Now, I might add, the criminal charges for the 60 Minutes team, they still stand. Those charges will be heard in absentia so they don't have to go there.

[01:25:00] The worst case scenario is probably that they will never will be allowed to go to Lebanon again. But in a thick, they are now free to go about their lives.

VAUSE: Peter, as always, good to speak with you. Thank you.

FORD: Thanks, John.

SESAY: After a quick break, we will shift to the race to the White House next and (inaudible) gently Donald Trump refuels oh his win in the New York primary.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I n the case of lion Ted Cruz, lion Ted, lies, oh, he lies. You know Ted, he brings the bible, holds it high, puts it down, lies.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SESAY: Welcome to CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I'm Isha Sesay.

VAUSE: And I'm John Vause. The headlines this hour, Ecuador's president is imposing a temporarily earthquake tax to pay for rebuilding after the country's worst disaster in decade. At least 570 people were killed in Saturday's quake, 24,000 are being displaced. The other big earthquake shook the same region on Wednesday but no injuries were recorded.

SESAY: As many as 500 migrants are feared dead after their ship sunk in the Mediterranean between Libya and Italy. Forty-one survivors, all from Africa, were taken to Greece. They told the U.N. refugee agency, smugglers are transferring the passengers to an already overcrowded bigger ship when capsized last week.

VAUSE: An explosion Wednesday that happened on a petrochemical 45 plant has killed three people in Mexico. The others were injured in the blast. The governor of Veracruz says it was an accident. A number of towns have been evacuated.

[01:30:00] SESAY: Let's talk politics. Hillary Clinton is hoping her big win in the New York Democratic primary will translate into votes throughout the northeast. And a new Monmouth University poll shows her with a 52-39 lead over Bernie Sanders in delegate-rich Pennsylvania. That state and four others hold primaries this Tuesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We had a really, really good day in New York yesterday.

(APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: And I am so grateful that the people I had the honor of representing for eight years in the Senate gave me the chance to once again campaign in New York, listen to what's on the minds of New Yorkers and gave me such a wonderful result.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Sanders spent Wednesday at home in Vermont but says he's staying in the race despite the steep odds of winning the nomination. Sanders' campaign manager says he will now try to persuade super delegates to back him over Hillary Clinton.

SESAY: Ted Cruz says no Republican will reach the required number of delegates to clinch its party's nomination outright. And he's predicting a contested convention in July.

VAUSE: Meanwhile Donald Trump celebrated his huge delegate haul in New York with a more measured tone, at least for a little while.

Here's Tom Foreman.

DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In the case of Lying Ted Cruz, Lying Ted --

(CHEERING)

TRUMP: -- lies, oh, he lies.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): So much for the change in tone. Donald Trump is back on the war path.

TRUMP: I'm about 300 delegates ahead of Lying Ted.

FOREMAN: Hammering home his nickname for his nearest challenger for the GOP crown, Senator Ted Cruz. It's the Donald Trump we've seen for months.

TRUMP: I call him Lying Ted.

Remember Lying Ted Cruz, Lying Ted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) (voice-over): I'm Donald Trump and I approve this message.

ANNOUNCER: The politicians can pretend it's something else, but Donald Trump calls it radical Islamic terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: From the beginning, Trump says he's just telling it like it is. He slammed Marco Rubio for his height and for sweating.

TRUMP: You have this clown, Marco Rubio. I call him Little Marco, Little Marco. It's Rubio.

(CHEERING)

FOREMAN: He ridiculed Carly Fiorina's looks, Chris Christie's relationship with the White House --

TRUMP: He looks like a little child, Christie.

FOREMAN: And mocked pretty much everything about Jeb Bush.

TRUMP: This guy can't negotiate his way out of a paper bag.

FOREMAN: The list goes on.

After his loss in Wisconsin, some of his inner circle thought the scorching rhetoric might have played a part in his defeat. And even his family thought he should lighten up his attacks on the foes.

TRUMP: They said, please, please, darling, my wife, and my daughter, Ivanka, Daddy, please be more presidential. And I wait a minute, I got to take them out before I become presidential, don't I? Right?

FOREMAN (on camera): Still, it looks like he took the advice at least for a little while, bringing in a teleprompter sometimes for more tempered remarks, and new advisors who had seemed to be slowing down his chainsaw approach.

(voice-over): And as the New York results pushed his delegate count up, he grew more civil, even calling Cruz -- gasp -- Senator.

TRUMP: Senator Cruz is just about mathematically eliminated.

(CHEERING)

FOREMAN: But by this afternoon, he was once again savaging Cruz and Democratic frontrunner, Hillary Clinton.

TRUMP: I'd love running against Crooked Hillary. I love that.

(CHEERING)

TRUMP: You know, Ted, he brings the Bible, holds it high, puts it down, lies.

FOREMAN: For the businessman from New York, it's business as usual.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: And for more on Donald Trump's campaign, Matt Lewis, a conservative writer and CNN political commentator, joins me from New York.

Boy, that didn't last long, did it? Donald Trump, back to the old Donald, back to the name calling, the red meat? But in this Donald Trump, the showman, he knows what the crowd likes? It's worked for him so far, so why change?

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, I think that's the problem. He has new advisors and they're telling him it's time to pivot, be more professional, be more presidential, and he does it, but when he's out on the stump and he has a live audience in front of him and he says something controversial and they applaud, I think the showman in him wants to give the audience what they want. So, he's had a couple of occasions, two or three times in this campaign where you thought he was going to pivot, thought he was going to start moderating his rhetoric and it lasts about 24 to 48 hours and this seems to be the latest example.

VAUSE: Yeah, this time it was about 12 hours, I think. So, the time spans are getting shorter. But he does have this new campaign staff, a much more professional campaign staff and this is the time when Donald Trump himself has said he's going to make a change to a more traditional campaign, but I get the feeling from you that it's not possible for Trump to make that pivot.

[01:35:17] LEWIS: I think there's an identity crisis taking place right now. And what we saw with Trump struggling with whether or not to let Trump be Trump, let his freak flag high, versus be more professional and presidential. I think that's a microcosm for the campaign. And on one hand, you could argue, let Trump be Trump, he got this far by not following the rules. And you could also argue you're being out-maneuvered by Ted Cruz in terms of rounding up delegates, and if you want to get to the next level, you have to pivot. This is a conflict of visions and it's unclear which way Trump's going to ultimately come down.

VAUSE: It's interesting, you talk about being out classed in the delegate hunt by Ted Cruz. Trump has set his sights on the Republican National Committee, especially when it comes to delegates. He's gone after Reince Priebus, the chairman.

And CNN's Jamie Gangel spoke to Chairman Priebus today, specifically asked the chairman about those allegations by Trump that the system is rigged.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Are you conspiring against Donald Trump? REINCE PRIEBUS, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Of course

not. Of course not.

(CROSSTALK)

GANGEL: Is there a plan to steal the nomination?

PRIEBUS: There's nothing to steal. Either you have the votes or you don't.

GANGEL: And you will be at peace if he is the nominee?

PRIEBUS: I'm going to be at peace with whoever the nominee is because I know that whoever the nominee is, is going to beat Hillary Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Either you have the votes or you don't. It's been that RNC line, it's all about the rules. If you don't follow the rules, you're not going to win. But what are the consequences if Trump comes close to a majority -- that's what it's looking like -- but doesn't quite get over that 1237 number. If they take away the nomination at the convention, what happens then?

LEWIS: It could get real ugly. And we've heard Trump talk about rioting possible, saying I hope there's not going to be violence. It could be ugly, really ugly. Even if a melee does not ensue, you could certainly have Donald Trump supporters outraged and abandoning the Republican Party and not voting for Ted Cruz or whoever the nominee would be in November. So, it's a really messy situation. And look, I think the truth is they're not trying to steal it from Trump but there really are, the Republican nomination -- 50 different Republican state parties have 50 different rules and some of them have open primaries. Some have these weird caucuses. And it's not a uniform process. In some cases, they lend themselves to Trump winning. We saw that in New York. But in some cases, they lend themselves to Ted Cruz wooing delegates.

VAUSE: Matt, real quickly, Trump campaign put out this memo that they could now walk away with 1400 delegates before we get to the convention. Where do they get that number from?

LEWIS: Look, I think that's absurd. And it's not unusual for campaigns to spin us and to try to -- in some cases maybe they believe it. Maybe they're actually caught in the campaign and, in other cases, they're trying to sort of work the referees. But that's too big. I don't even think he's going to get to 1237. I just wonder if that's not a mistake on their part. Usually, in politics, you want to under promise and over achieve. Right now, they're over promising and are going to under achieve.

VAUSE: We'll see what happens. Many more interesting days ahead.

Matt, thanks for being with us.

LEWIS: Thank you. SESAY: Many, many, many.

VAUSE: Just keeps going.

(LAUGHTER)

SESAY: Still to come on CNN NEWSROOM, the U.S. has change for a $20, $10, and a $5. Its plan to makeover the dollar bills and the historical reason for it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[01:43:02] VAUSE: Welcome back everybody. After months of controversy, the U.S. Treasury has announced plans to change the 10, 20 and 5 dollar bills.

SESAY: Christine Romans has more on the history behind the redesigns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Andrew Jackson is out, Harriet Tubman is in. The abolitionist who led slaves to freedom with the Underground Railroad will become the new face of the $20 bill, the first woman since Martha Washington to grace the front of the U.S. paper currency and the first African-American ever.

It's a change of plan for Treasury Secretary Jack Lew. 10 months ago, he made this announcement.

JACK LEW, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: The new $10 bill will be the first bill in more than a century to feature a portrait of a woman.

ROMANS: An uproar from Alexander Hamilton fans erupted. Opposition to booting the nation's first Treasury secretary was fierce, driven in part by the Broadway musical based on his life.

(SINGING)

ROMANS: Even Jack Lew is a fan of the show.

LEW: It took this very good but dense biography and brought it to life for people who may not go know anything about him.

ROMANS: So Alexander stay on the $10. A number of womens rights leaders will appear on the back. And Harriet Tubman is coming to the $20.

Just how quickly this will happen is unclear. Treasury plans to unveil final designs in 2020 and wants to accelerate the process, but extensive anti-counterfeiting measures, especially for the heavily circulated $20 bill, could add years to production. For some, that's too long. In a "New York Times" op-ed, Derwin Cokey Roberts (ph) calls it quote, "Another wait your turn moment for American woman," and signed an open letter along with Gloria Steinem and others in a last-stitch effort to get a woman on a $10 bill instead. On a call with reporters, Treasury Secretary Lew admitted he couldn't

make everyone happy.

LEW: Of course, we want to tell the rich history of our country. With this decision, our currency will now know more of our story and reflect the contributions of women as well as men for our great democracy.

ROMANS: A great democracy that more than 100 years later will once again place a female face on its currency.

Christine Romans, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[01:45:20] SESAY: Well, social and political commentator, Jasmyne Cannick, joins us to talk about the new face of the U.S. $20 bill.

Jasmyne, always great to have you with us.

JASMYNE CANNICK, SOCIAL & POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you.

SESAY: I was shocked by you saying when you heard the news that Harriett Tubman was going to be on the $20, you couldn't take it at face value.

CANNICK: No, I had to check it out first to see what the deal was and I was a little disappointed to see that Jackson was going to stay on the bill.

VAUSE: And other people, by the sounds of things.

CANNICK: Given his history of owning slaves, and his policies that led to the deaths of a lot of native-Americans, I just feel there's a sense of irony having her on the front and him on the back.

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: A lot of people, internationally at least, this is a guy, a president who history has recently revealed was responsible for ethnic cleansing of Native Americans and he cleansed the area to give it to plantation owners so they could use that farmland for slaves to work so they could make money. It's a double whammy.

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: That's the problem here, isn't it?

CANNICK: It is a problem. I think it's a step forward. I can't wait to get my $20 bill with Harriet Tubman on the front. I'll focus on her and frame it. I think being that this is America, we're going to have back lash, so I'm sure there's going to be some state down south that has a business that says we're not going to accept these bills. It's almost guaranteed because this is America.

SESAY: Not everyone is embracing it. Former president candidate, Ben Carson, had words to say. Let's listen to how he took the news.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BEN CARSON, (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Andrew Jackson was the last president who actually balanced the federal budget, where we had no national debt.

NEIL CAVUTO, FOX NEWS HOST, CAVUTO: And here he gets kicked off the $20 bill.

CARSON: Right. So in honor of that, we kick him off of the money.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVUTO: Are you anti-Harriet Tubman?

CARSON: No, I love Harriet. I love what she did. But we can find another way to honor her. Maybe a $2 bill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Oh.

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: That is as bad as it sounds, right?

CANNICK: One, that's why Dr. Carson is in the position he's in. Two, what a lot of people may not know is that he was no real fan of paper money, so it's ironic he's on a bill to begin with. And three, the $2 bills aren't even in existence anymore. That was just an ignorant statement.

VAUSE: And let's just clarify about Jackson. He actually caused one of the worst economic recessions in this country because of his economic policies. He wasn't exactly this great economic mastermind either.

(CROSSTALK)

VAUSE: And there's been this criticism from conservative commentators that this is an unnecessary move, that this is dividing the nation. Even on FOX, they're saying why not give her a $25 bill?

CANNICK: What people should worry about is if we don't have any money. When the economy gets so bad that people don't have any $5s, $10s to exchange among each other.

We need to move forward. We need see more women on our money. I think it's interesting that we've moved beyond a president, right? We're looking at a woman who was an icon around helping slaves get away. She wasn't a president, not a white woman. The first woman is actually going to be a black woman.

SESAY: Where does it rank at the moment?

CANNICK: It ranks pretty much up there. But at 38, I don't want the bill to come out when I'm 70.

VAUSE: Yeah.

CANNICK: And hopefully we can get that done.

VAUSE: And this probably won't come out until well into the next decade. They might not even be using money by then.

(LAUGHTER)

CANNICK: Who knows?

SESAY: Jasmyne, thank you.

VAUSE: Thank you for coming in.

CANNICK: Thank you.

[01:49:27] VAUSE: OK, so how do you celebrate a milestone birthday when you're a queen? With lots of parties and pomp and circumstance. Details on Queen Elizabeth's 90th birthday celebration when we come back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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SESAY: Hello everyone. In just a few hours, British Prime Minister David Cameron will deliver birthday wishes to Queen Elizabeth.

VAUSE: The nation's longest-serving monarch is now the first to celebrate a 90th birthday.

Nick Glass has more on the royal party.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK GLASS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a lifetime of vocation, Queen Elizabeth's 90th birthday celebrations began with a first, an official photograph, four generations of royals, three future kings posing at Buckingham Palace. It will feature on special stamps to mark the queen's life.

It's a milestone for 2-year-old Prince George, who makes his stamp debut, his first of many to come. Pictured standing on a stack of blocks for a boost.

And her grandson, the Duke of Cambridge, paid tribute in an interview with the BBC.

PRINCE WILLIAM, DUKE OF CAMBRIDGE: The queen's service, her tolerance, her commitment to others, I think that's all been incredibly important to me and a real sort of guiding example of just what sort of a good monarch a can be.

GLASS: Prince William answered criticism of his commitment to royal duties. He's been called Shy William by some U.K. media. He says he's willing to take on more responsibility when the time comes.

PRINCE WILLIAM, DUKE OF CAMBRIDGE: I take my duties seriously and I take my responsibilities very seriously. It's about finding your own way at the right time. And if you're not careful, duty can sort of weigh you down an awful lot starting at a very early age, and you've got to develop into the duty role.

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[01:55:16] GLASS: In the first of a series of events, the queen was a guest of honor at a birthday party thrown by the Royal Mail, which itself is marking its 500th anniversary.

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GLASS: Later, the queen was greeted by crowds of well wishers in Windsor where the royal couple have their main residence.

With two full days of events, the queen is proving she can usher in her next decade with her usual vigor after 90 years in the public eye.

The birthday celebrations will culminate in June with a street party for thousands outside Buckingham Palace.

Nick Glass, for CNN, in London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: Should be quite the party.

SESAY: Sure will.

VAUSE: OK. You've been watching CNN NEWSROOM, live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause.

SESAY: And I'm Isha Sesay.

The news continues with Rosemary Church and Errol Barnett after this.

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