Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Remembering Prince; Trump Top Adviser Meets with RNC Members; Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired April 22, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[10:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was entertainment. In capital letters. You know, he loved what he did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a prophet. He was a pimp. He was purple. He was Midwest. He was magical. He was funny. He was so black. He walked through this world like he believed he was free.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Overnight, all night, Prince parties erupted like this one in Minneapolis. And these are just some of the images pouring into us. Cities lighting up in purple to honor a man known as music royalty. A tribute to a song that helped define his career, "Purple Rain." Even Broadway hits like "Hamilton" and "The Color Purple" pausing to remember Prince.

And like Prince once sang, there's always a rainbow at the end of every rain, a rainbow painting the sky over Prince's estate just hours after his death.

Stephanie Elam live in Minneapolis with more for you this morning. Hi, Stephanie.

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. That's right, we are learning more about the fact that there will be this autopsy starting -- expected to start at approximately right now, hoping to find out more information about what led to the death of this iconic entertainer.

We do know that they are collecting evidence from the scene and looking at his other health records to put it together to try to paint the picture of what happened here, but it will take weeks before we actually know, even though the autopsy is happening today, before we get the information to find out what really happened.

We do know that he was hospitalized just last week coming back from Atlanta. Had to have an emergency landing on his plane to go to the hospital. His spokespeople saying that he's being treated for dehydration and also that he had flu-like symptoms. He came back here. We know he threw a dance party just days ago and then passing away yesterday morning just about 24 hours ago now.

And, Carol, you were talking about how around the world iconic buildings have been shaded in the color of purple because of all the entertainers no one was so connected to one color as Prince was. Even our flight here, our Delta flight coming here last night, they turned the lights in the cabin purple as we were arriving here in Minneapolis. And one of the people who was on my plane yesterday was Sheila E. And she's a legendary drummer in her own right and she and Prince collaborated a lot so much so that they at one point were engaged. She spoke this morning about what it was like working with him. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHEILA E, MUSICIAN: We loved collaborating with him because he brought the best out of us. And he was influenced by all of us as well. You know, we just had great moments. He did things differently, you know, and he would do things outside the box. You know, that he was -- there were no limits for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ELAM: And I actually, Carol, on a personal note saw Prince at Madison Square Garden when I still lived in New York, and at one point Sheila E appeared. She rose up out of the stage with her drum set and it was an epic, epic performance that I will never forget. Something that the people there, you can just look on their faces, you know, you could see that they knew that they were witnessing an immense moment of greatness -- Carol.

COSTELLO: I envy you. That would have been epic.

Stephanie Elam, thanks so much.

Dez Dickerson knows Prince well. He spent four years working and recording with Prince. Dez played the guitar solo on "Little Red Corvette" and his voice graced Prince's seminal hit "1999."

Dez Dickerson is on the phone right now. Welcome, Dez, and thank you for being with me this morning.

DEZ DICKERSON, FRIEND OF PRINCE: Thank you for having me.

COSTELLO: It must seem unreal to you.

DICKERSON: It is. It's still very much surreal. It's been a whirlwind since yesterday and obviously it's impacting people all over the world.

COSTELLO: When did you hear?

DICKERSON: I was actually on the way to a meeting and began to get texts that at first were kind of cryptic and I wasn't really sure what was going on. And we actually ended up Googling to get the details, and, of course, then realized what had had transpired. And it's been intense since then.

[10:05:01] A lot of -- a lot of folks are at this point in time wanting to celebrate his life and kind of embrace his legacy. So been involved in a lot of different things along those lines in the last number of hours here.

COSTELLO: That's what we're trying to do this morning. So tell me, what was it like to perform with Prince?

DICKERSON: It was a pretty amazing ride. I mean, we were very young, in the beginning of things, as is often the case, and you don't gain perspective on those kinds of things usually until years later, but one of the things I cherish about my time with Prince is the fact that we kind of were in that window of going from nothing to something profound, and that kind of ride is something that it's really difficult to describe and something that's very humbling to have been a part of.

So it's one of those once in a lifetime things that, again, as you get older you gain perspective on just how momentous it was.

COSTELLO: Yes. You have been quoted in other articles as saying that Prince allowed you to have some creative freedom, and we all know Prince liked to control everything. So that was pretty amazing.

DICKERSON: He really did. I mean, the thing about him is that he recognized kindred spirits I think musically and creatively as well as anybody I have ever known, and he knew how to respect and value the gift that was in other people.

Yes, he definitely had a very clear sense of who he was, what he was doing, what he was after, but when he felt that people could add flavor to that and people had something to contribute, he would, you know, kind of give deference to that and even allow -- he gave me the latitude to be involved in other creative project that were sort of related to the Prince camp, as it were.

COSTELLO: Did you realize when you were young and you were performing on stage with Prince that you were part of something that would be amazing and that would have such staying power and influence over the music industry?

DICKERSON: There were definitely flashes. There were moments and indicators, kind of, you know, harbingers along the way. Early on there was a show that we did in a venue in Denver that doesn't exist anymore called the Rainbow where we had really like a Beatle's "Hard Day's Night" experience. I mean, it's like a mini riot. We got chased through the city at high speeds in the middle of the winter.

There were moments like that along the way. There was, you know, opening for the Stones and the L.A. Coliseum. Different moments where there were industry people who really kind of stood up and took notice and were so gracious and so sort of gushing in their praise and their recognition of what we were doing that it would cause you to go, wow, did that just happen? Was that real?

COSTELLO: Wow. How would Prince like us all to remember him?

DICKERSON: You know what? At the end of the day Prince the brand is something iconic and bigger than life and something that we all want to hold on to, but Prince the person was a big heart, really a loving person, a person, great sense of humor. That's something I want people to remember. He really was behind the scenes a real guy who loved to laugh, and we need to remember not just the legend but remember the person as well.

COSTELLO: Dez Dickerson, thank you so much for being with me this morning. I do appreciate it.

Prince graced so many magazine covers but really we barely knew him. He was intensely private but one journalist who broke through was Anthony DeCurtis. He wrote a 2004 cover story on Prince for "Rolling Stone." The headline, "Prince on Fire." He still got that red hot magic.

Anthony DeCurtis, contributing editor for "Rolling Stone," joins me now.

Thanks for being here.

ANTHONY DECURTIS, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, ROLLING STONE: It's my pleasure, though it's obviously a sad occasion.

COSTELLO: You know, I first discovered Prince when I was in college, so I very much grew up with him. To me it just seems so unreal. Does it to you?

DECURTIS: Yes. I mean, there was some sense that Prince was going to be around forever. I mean I think he had that sense as well. That was a funny feeling, I remember when I was one time interviewing him, you know, the three stories I did with him, and he was talking about, you know, just his health and, you know, how he felt and how he looked and that he didn't really believe in the idea of age. You know, he felt that it was almost like an internal thing, you know.

He was a very sort of mystical and spiritual person in a way and I think that was one aspect of it. So it's especially shocking for that reason.

COSTELLO: Yes. He seemed -- he was not only intensely private, but was he private because he was shy, too? Was he shy?

[10:10:01] DECURTIS: He was a little shy. You know, I mean, for somebody who was completely outlandish. I mean, that's --

COSTELLO: Exactly.

DECURTIS: That's not -- I mean, I think for certain performers there's a difference between, you know, their actual life and, you know, when they get up on the stage. And there was a shyness and there was also a kind of sense that I think Prince really -- I mean, it seems so funny to say this about a musician, especially in a celebrity culture, but Prince really was about the music. You know, that is what moved him the most. You know, and I think he would enter the world of media, you know, when he felt -- you know, he had a project that he wanted to talk about and he wanted to get it to people and did as much of that as he could stand to do, but I think finally he was most at home on stage and the studio making music. That was what he really, really loved. He loved it the way a kid

loves it. You know, like the way kids are -- they believe something so totally. You know, it's not -- there's no ambivalence. That's the way Prince was about making music.

COSTELLO: When he hit -- you know, when he broke into the public's consciousness with "1999" at least for me living in the Midwest in Ohio it was like nothing I had ever seen before.

DECURTIS: Certainly.

COSTELLO: It was like, who is that guy? But I love the song.

DECURTIS: Yes. Wearing girl's underwear.

COSTELLO: Yes. Like we didn't see that kind of stuff, you know, down on the farm in Ohio where I grew up. But so how did he change our musical culture do you think?

DECURTIS: Well, there was a kind of daring to Prince's music. You know, I mean, I think about a song like "When Doves Cry," you know, which was a number one hit, by the way, with lyrics like, you know, "Maybe I'm just too demanding, too bold. You know, maybe you're just like my mother. You know, she's never satisfied."

I mean, it's like the last argument you had with your girlfriend and it's number one. You know, there was a sense in which he was fearless, you know. Fearless in putting forward that kind of sexual vision that he initially had and fearless about moving away from it when he had certain kind of spiritual awakenings that made that seem more problematic to him.

You know, he was somebody who very truly followed his own path, and, you know, that is the thing that I think is really inspirational about him.

COSTELLO: So I'll ask you the same question that I asked Dez, you know, and I know you didn't know Prince personally but you interviewed him a few times. How would he like to be remembered?

DECURTIS: I think through the music. I think through the music and through his fight for artistic freedom. I think he very, very much believed in that. You know, and I think those things are how he tried to communicate, and I think that's what inspires younger artists, artists who don't make music anything like Prince's know that he fought for their freedom, and that's something that they take to heart and I think is one of the reasons why, you know, he'll absolutely live on.

COSTELLO: Anthony DeCurtis, I have always enjoyed your work.

DECURTIS: Thank you so much. You're very kind.

COSTELLO: Thank you so much for stopping by.

DECURTIS: Thank you for calling on me. COSTELLO: Appreciate it.

This just into CNN. I'm going to pass this along to you right now. President Obama has just arrived at 10 Downing Street in London. He's going to meet with the prime minister, David Cameron. You see them there walking to 10 Downing Street. Of course, they're going to be talking about a lot of important issues like the fight against ISIS and also about Britain possibly removing itself from the European Union which President Obama is very much against. Of course, we'll keep you posted, and we understand both men will be holding a press conference in the next hour.

When Prince was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2014, he absolutely shredded George Harrison's "While My Guitar Gently Weeps." His guitar solo was simply breathtaking. Listen.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:18:12] COSTELLO: The Republican National Committee is wrapping up its three-day meeting in Florida today where Donald Trump's top adviser Paul Manafort is working overtime trying to convince GOP insiders that the frontrunner is more than bombast and headlines. Listen to this audio of a closed-door meeting obtained by CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CAMPAIGN CONVENTION MANAGER: Trump is an outsider and that's why many of you don't know him, but when he's sitting in a room, he's talking business, he's talking politics in a private room, it's a different persona.

When he's out on the stage, when he's talking about the kinds of things when he's out on the stump, he's projecting an image that's for that purpose. The part that he's been playing is evolving into the part that now you've been expecting but he wasn't ready for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's Phil Mattingly is live in Hollywood, Florida for the final day of that meeting between RNC members.

Good morning, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Donald Trump has made a series of changes at the top of his campaign over the last couple of weeks, and those changes were represented down here in Hollywood, Florida, not just in the personal attendance of those new advisers but also in their message, a message that Donald Trump is starting to shift, is willing to pivot and isn't necessarily the candidate that you see on stage every day at his rallies.

Now this best may not play well with the general electorate but it does play well with the members that were here. 168 RNC committee members. Members that have largely been under attack by Donald Trump over the last couple of weeks. Members that are not only skeptical of his candidacy but also downright angered by it. Even that was an area that Paul Manafort tried to assuage. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANAFORT: Is Donald Trump running against the Republican National Committee? The answer is he is not. He is concerned about what he considers to be the transparency issue where the voters are voting for something and the rules might be something else regarding the selection of delegates.

[10:20:03] He's not trying to change the rules in this process. He's winning. He's not interested in changing the rules. But he believes that starting the conversation is good to do in this timeframe because this is when we're all facing the issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now, Carol, Paul Manafort making clear that while Donald Trump probably isn't going to stop attacking the system or even the RNC in the near future, his comments are related to the next election cycle. Now I spoke to a number of RNC officials and members that were in this meeting and a lot of them came away intrigued by what the campaign was offering. They said it was a data-driven presentation, a presentation that was more about the general election than what it was about winning the primary.

But mending the ties between the Trump campaign, the candidate, Donald Trump, and the RNC is extremely important if Donald Trump does lock up that nomination and here is why, Carol. The RNC has become the data center for the Republican Party. They have the contact information. They have the digital information. They have everything really built inside that any candidate would need to run a general election against Democrats and over the last couple cycles have largely dominated the data game and debate.

If Donald Trump wants to incorporate that infrastructure, an infrastructure he absolutely will need to win in a general election he needs the RNC on board. That's why you heard his advisers work very hard to not only tell the 168 RNC members here that Donald Trump wants to play a role in the future with them but also talk to RNC officials, make very clear that even what he says on the stump might be offensive, don't worry, when it comes to the general election he seriously wants to work with everybody here -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All righty then. Phil Mattingly reporting live from Hollywood, Florida, this morning.

Let's talk about all of this with CNN senior political analyst and senior editor of the "Atlantic," Ron Brownstein.

Welcome, Ron.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: OK. So Paul Manafort told me the members of the establishment that Donald -- Donald Trump's personality was one thing but his character was another and there are two Donald Trumps and down the line we're going to hear more of the other Donald Trump.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Yes. Well, look, it's a question Republicans have been asking from the beginning and really been asking on two fronts, both policy and persona. How much of this is real and how much of this is basically filling a market niche or an audience that he thought was out there for an agenda and a style? And I think on both fronts the answer has to be somewhat mixed.

I mean, there are issues where he has been consistent for many years. For example his skepticism about free trade. On others, you know, he is a long way from where he was in 2000 when he was considering running for the Reform Party nominee on a much more liberal agenda. And as for style, I mean, you've got to think that this is a little amped up, but he has been someone who throughout his career at least on the public stage has been willing to really push the envelope.

Certainly how did he come to, you know, attention in the last decade before this was pushing the birther argument. So the idea that there's a completely different Donald Trump I think is not really going to hold up, but the thought that he could dial back what we have seen somewhat, sure. If he is the nominee, and you've got to think he's going to be a little different.

COSTELLO: Well, I got to tell you that Ben Carson had a hard time explaining the two Donald Trumps. He had as hard a time as I did in my first question to you.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

COSTELLO: Ben Carson was on Trevor Noah the other night and Trevor asked Carson why people were so captivated by Trump's persona rather than the real Trump, that other Donald Trump. And this is what Ben Carson said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. BEN CARSON, (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Just like the Roman Empire, you know, their societies crumbling down around them. Where do they want to be? At the coliseum watching lions rip people's heads off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So there you have it.

BROWNSTEIN: Bread and circuses. Look, you know, the other thing that's different here, you know, that Paul Manafort talks about Ronald Reagan having high negatives in 1980. Certainly Bill Clinton emerged from the 1992 primaries with the highest negatives at that point and was able to substantially reduced them and of course go on to win the general election. There are several things that are different here. The biggest one is just the sheer amount of media attention is so much greater.

Donald Trump has been tattooed to a much greater extent than earlier candidates by his comments, by the things he has said and done to activate the portion of the Republican coalition that passionately supports him. The things he has done to get that support have really raised a lot of deep concerns in other groups, African-Americans, Hispanics, millennials, socially liberal whites.

It is going to be I think virtually impossible to completely erase those. You know, those things don't go away. He can try to change the message and modulate the persona if he becomes the nominee and he may not be facing the kind of negatives that he is today.

COSTELLO: Well --

BROWNSTEIN: But the idea you can wipe all of this off like an Etch-a- Sketch isn't real.

COSTELLO: Right. Right. And I think -- I think Paul Manafort realizes that because listen to what he said about Hillary Clinton's negatives.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANAFORT: Clinton's negatives are serious because they're character negatives. People don't trust her. They don't like her. They think she's a liar. They think she just think only for her interest. The Clinton corporation. All of the issues that go to character. Trump's negatives deal with his personality. People don't know yet what to make of him.

[10:25:03] Some of the stump speeches he's given. Some of the style he has. Some of the ways in which he's presented the issues. But it's his personality that people have trouble with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So can Trump go on the stump and say hey, you know, that was just an act, I didn't really mean those things? And if Hillary Clinton said the same thing she couldn't get away with that because it's her character?

BROWNSTEIN: It's an interesting --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, it's an interesting argument, but it may be a distinction without a difference, right? I mean, you know, Donald Trump, it's not just the style, it is that voters are concerned that -- the ones who don't like him are concerned that he's simply just too erratic to be president. You just don't know what he's going to do from day to day. Doesn't seem to operate with boundaries and it isn't only style that is his problem. It is what he has said and what he embodies.

I mean, there are many Americans who view him as simply embodying values that are antithetical to what they believe the country is. Now there are those who support him. The problem he's got is I think that, you know, what he's done to activate his portion of the Republican coalition has alienated at this point voters who are a clear majority of the country, and so he's got a big hole to climb out of at a time when I think the oppressions are more deeply formed than they were for earlier candidates like Clinton and Reagan.

Not that he can't improve it, but he's shown himself to be a very agile, political operators, but the idea that he can simply make all of this go away, the Etch-a-Sketch, that Eric Fehrnstrom talked around in 2012, I just don't think that is a plausible notion.

COSTELLO: Ron Brownstein, thanks so much.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Still to come -- you're welcome.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Mick, Paul, and Elton remember Prince. We'll take you live to London next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)