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WORLD RIGHT NOW WITH HALA GORANI
Obama Warns "Brexit" Would Harm Trade With U.S.; Prince's Autopsy Completed News Conference Soon; Stevie Wonder Remembers Prince With "Purple Rain"; Inside Look At Brussels Airport After Terror Attacks; Venezuela Faces 40 Days Of Rolling Blackouts. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired April 22, 2016 - 15:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live at CNN London and this is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
We begin tonight with the increasingly passionate, some might say bitter debate over whether Britain should leave the European Union. The U.S.
president is now weighing in and he's doing so in a very clear way and a stark warning.
Barack Obama says a Brexit scenario would leave Britain, quote, "at the back of the queue" on any free trade deal with the U.S. Nic Robertson has
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): On the chilliest of streets, the warmest of welcomes. President Obama, a friend
for British Prime Minister David Cameron just when he needed one the most.
The American president wading into the hottest political debate this tiny island has seen in decades. In or out of the European Union, backing
Cameron's in campaign.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We're more prosperous when one of our best friends and closest allies has a strong,
stable, growing economy. Americans want Britain's influence to grow, including within Europe.
ROBERTSON: So intent on keeping the U.K. in Europe, Obama writing an emotive letter to Cameron's waving heartland in England. The tens of
thousands of Americans who rest in Europe's cemeteries are a silent testament to just how intertwined our prosperity and security truly are.
When pressed to what a vote to leave might mean, a stark warning --
PRESIDENT OBAMA: Maybe at some point down the line there will be a U.S./U.K. trade agreement, but it's not going to happen any time soon
because our focus is negotiating with the big bloc, the European Union, to get a trade agreement done. U.K. is going to be in the back of the queue.
ROBERTSON: On the streets of the capital, most happy for the world's most powerful politician to get involved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I definitely, definitely want us to stay in so I'm happy for him to say that. I think it is important that our biggest
trading partner outside the E.U. is supporting us to stay in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have no idea (inaudible) researched or how much thought was given to it but he has the right to weigh in in my opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're always been close with America. It is ridiculous to think that he shouldn't have a say. He doesn't have a direct
say, but he should have an opinion.
ROBERTSON: Not so for their flamboyant mayor, Boris Johnson, a leader of the "out" campaign.
BORIS JOHNSON, MAYOR OF LONDON: I think what perhaps our friends in America don't appreciate is that the E.U. has really changed in the last 43
years. It's become something else and it's something to which the Americans would never submit their own democracy.
ROBERTSON: Polls put both in and out too close to call, voting two months away. The PM seemingly happy for the timely help.
DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Britain's membership with the E.U. gives us a powerful tool to deliver on the prosperity and security that our
people need. And to stand up for the values that our countries share. And now I think is a time to stay true to those values and to stick together
with our friends and allies in Europe and around the world.
GORANI: All right, let's get the very latest from right here in London. Nic Robertson is outside 10 Downing Street. Max Foster is at Kensington
Palace where President Obama and the first lady, Michelle, are having dinner with the duke and duchess of Cambridge, and Prince Harry as well.
Nic, I want to start with you. Was there any surprise? Did it come as a surprise that President Obama was so direct essentially saying, look, if
you, in Britain, vote to leave the E.U., there will be no special treatment. You'll go right back to the end of the line in terms of any
kind of trade deal between the U.S. and the U.K.?
ROBERTSON: You know, I think for President Obama it seems the gloves have come off in this debate, although he was putting it from the perspective of
the United States. We shouldn't have been surprised.
[15:05:01]We've been led to believe by the White House last week that he would offer comments if asked, comments coming from a friend. This was
And having seen the emotive message in his newspaper letter this morning, I think it should have been no surprise that he was willing to go down to the
wire on it and say, look, you will be if you leave the European Union at the back of any deal we do.
When we're doing a deal with the European Union, you'll have to go to the back the line and wait until that deal is done. I don't think we should be
GORANI: Nic, let me also ask you about reaction in London, and beyond. Boris Johnson, the London mayor, is essentially saying, hey, you know what?
Thank you very much, we don't need your advice. We don't need you to tell us how to run our own affairs.
Generally speaking, how are Britain's reacting to the fact that President Obama has written this op-ed and said what he said at this news conference?
ROBERTSON: The people we have talked to here in London have said that they felt it was OK for him to get involved. What the people would be saying in
some of those constituencies where they feel heavily that Britain should leave and are more inclined to believe Boris Johnson and you know, some
things people are hearing make them skeptical.
Can they trust their politicians or not when they talk to them? Are they getting the real answers or some skewed version to fit their own political
So you know, what Boris Johnson has done -- President Obama really I think this was another point today where President Obama made just how clear and
how far he was willing to go to support David Cameron and support Britain staying in the European Union.
Boris Johnson had written a letter, it appears in some ways, reactive to the letter that President Obama had written for the "Telegraph" newspaper.
Boris' letter appeared in "The Sun" newspaper.
He began by talking about how a bust of Winston Churchill had been removed from the oval office. When President Obama was talking about this, he
said, "Just to be clear, there is a bust of Winston Churchill, who I very much admire and love outside my private offices in the White House.
Yes, I may have removed one from the ovaloffice and replaced it with something I thought was more fitting." So I think a huge knockdown for
Boris Johnson there. How well is that going to play with the people who support him already? That's not entirely clear at the moment -- Hala.
GORANI: He apparently replaced that Churchill bust with the bust of Martin Luther King in the oval office. Max Foster, you're outside Kensington
Palace, it is very important for the royal family to never appear as though they are taking any political position on anything especially on something
like this referendum. However, they are hosting the Obamas. We have a new photo from inside Kensington Palace. Talk us through it.
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's just really grabbed the attention of the British media because we've never seen inside the
apartment, which cost more than 4 million pounds. So several million dollars to renovate.
That's the first glimpse we really had into the home where Prince George is being brought up here in London, although they also have their country home
as well. Lots of people pointing out the rocking horse. You'll see that certainly in the British papers tomorrow.
Analyzed overnight in great detail. Actually say they're not letting any more information out from this meeting simply because Prince William has
inadvertently been dragged into a couple of wider debates about his views on whether Britain should be in or out of the European Union.
And they know, royalty know, if they get dragged into that debate the same way the president has been, then that jeopardizes the neutrality of the
royal family and could in many ways mark their death nail.
It really shows everything Nic's talking about really shows how divisive that debate is here in the U.K. People are taking sides firmly and lot of
people really frustrated about what the president said.
But also a lot of people suggesting even the circles around here suggesting what he's saying is very clear and very useful for the debate as you go
towards that referendum.
GORANI: If we could get back to these pictures from inside Kensington Palace, first of all, no one is wearing a tie. Quite relaxed. Secondly,
I'm noticing a big stuffed animal on the central ottoman and also a rocking horse in the back. This seems super relaxed. What is their relationship,
this generation of the British royal family and the Obamas?
FOSTER: Well, it's very close. You can see in their body language how easily they get on. The fact that the president's taken time out just to
come here for another meal with the junior members of the royal family. People analyzing the cuddly toy in great detail. I'm amazed you pointed it
out -- Hala.
GORANI: It's yet another U.K./U.S. -- go ahead.
FOSTER: Apparently, the Obamas did give the cuddly toy at some point to Prince George. So it could be that or it could be Postman Pat's cat, who
is a British cartoon character.
[15:10:07]GORANI: OK. Sure we'll find out soon enough. The internet will tell us eventually. Thanks very much, Max Foster and Nic Robertson to both
Stay with us. We'll have plenty more on this story later in the show. I'll be speaking to people from both sides of the Brexit debate on what
they think of President Obama's warnings and passionate conversations coming up.
Now shock, sadness and questions today. That's what we're left with after the sudden death of Prince. His autopsy has just been completed. Results
including a full toxicology scan could be weeks away. No immediate answers.
But we do expect local law enforcement to provide an update in just under an hour. Fans are holding fast to the idea that Prince will live on
through his music.
He may have passed so suddenly, but any time you hear any of Prince's music, you have to admit you just cannot stop marking the beat, you cannot.
The artist was still thrilling live audiences with renditions of "Little Red Corvette" the week before he died. Landmarks in Minnesota and across
the U.S. lit up to honor the Purple One, and in his home city, Minneapolis.
GORANI: Spontaneous dance parties honoring the city's favorite son. Fans are also gathering at the artist's estate, Paisley Park. That's where we
find our own, Stephanie Elam. Stephanie, we understand the autopsy has been completed but as I was saying, it could be a long time before we know
exactly what happened to Prince.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it won't be quick enough for anyone who really wants to know. Somehow I feel like people feel like
there will be peace in knowing why he died so young, just 57 years of age.
So many people also I've seen people say this on social media, too, talking about the fact that it's like these greats from a certain period, these
'80s artists, '90s artists, leaving us so soon, a la Michael Jackson and Whitney Houston.
So people mourning the loss for a certain era in their lives. These artists just bring to us the soundtracks of our lives in so many ways. But
just to give you a better picture of how people are remembering Prince Rogers Nelson outside of his compound here called Paisley Park.
This is where he had his studio. This is where he also lived. I had the privilege of getting inside there in August for a party actually. And if
you take a look at it, you can see that this was a man loved by this community.
So many people wearing purple, so many people of different ages, creeds and colors. He really did unite people through his music because it is the
universal language. People from all over the world remembering prince for his iconic sound and his iconic style.
GORANI: Did you say you were at a party inside Paisley Park? Did you get to meet Prince?
ELAM: Actually not while I was here in August, but I did meet Prince many years ago when I still lived in New York. It was a party for one of my
best friends. He was there and I met him. It is amazing how quiet he could be when you meet him, very engaging, very quiet.
As I was talking to my friend yesterday as I was making my way to Minnesota, she was saying it was interesting to watch him. He loved to
watch people. He did not like to be watched unless he was on stage.
But he was a great observer. And when he was in the audience, watching a show, he would just be normal, hanging out. Of course, Prince normal, and
then he would get on stage and just electrify the place.
Put on an amazing performance, bring the house down, and then go back to being the quiet soft-spoken Prince that we've seen so much when he has come
out and did come out and speak on camera -- Hala.
GORANI: All right, thank you, Stephanie Elam in Minnesota there where all the fans have been gathering over the last 24 hours since that shocking
news. Thanks very much. We'll catch up with you a little bit later.
Also just a reminder, at 4:00 p.m. Eastern, which is in 45 minutes, if they're on time, that's when we are expecting a police news conference to
update us on the death of pop star, Prince. We'll bring that to you as well.
Of all the celebrity tributes pouring in, one of the most touching may have come from Stevie Wonder.
GORANI: That is of course Stevie Wonder's rendition of "Purple Rain." That was how wonder chose to remember his friend and fellow musical genius
and playing his own distinctive version during an interview with our Anderson Cooper.
Earlier in the wide ranging and emotional conversation, Anderson asked Wonder if he would play a Prince song? Now initially this was his reaction
to that question.
STEVIE WONDER, SINGER: Yes, I think I would probably break down.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: OK.
WONDER: If I do a song right now. But -- you know, he was incredible. I'm just glad that I was able to say to him "I Love You" the last time I
COOPER: And he wrote a lot of songs for other artists over the years. He was also a philanthropist, donating instruments for young musicians, was
concerned about social justice issues -- he did a lot of things for charity and didn't necessarily get his name associated with that. He did a lot of
WONDER: I think his spiritual commitment was far bigger than him having to say he did this and he did that. His commitment was in the action of what
he did, not with the satisfaction of letting people know that he did it.
COOPER: How do you -- I don't know if I should even ask this question because it's maybe too soon to figure this out and certainly we'll always
have the music, but how do you hope people remember him?
WONDER: Just a great musician, a great producer, great songwriter. Someone that allowed himself to be himself and encouraged others to be
themselves and he was very free and to do what he did without fear was a wonderful thing.
GORANI: Stevie Wonder speaking to Anderson Cooper about his friend, Prince, who passed away yesterday suddenly.
We'll have more coverage of Prince's death to come. Minnesota law enforcement will speak in about 43 minutes. We'll bring you that live and
we'll remember more of artist's contribution to pop culture with a music journalist here in the studio.
Also ahead, we'll take you inside the Brussels airport one month after the deadly terror attacks. We'll be right back. Stay with us.
GORANI: We are learning more about -- more information about one of the terrorists who attacked the city of Brussels last month. Najim Laachraoui
was one of two suicide bombers who blew themselves up at the Brussels airport on March 22nd.
Now we've learned he actually worked at the airport for 11 days in 2011 and a week in 2012. He was contracted by a company to do general cleaning
[15:20:10]Meanwhile, an attorney for former ISIS hostages says that her clients have also identified this man as their jailer in Syria. Four
former French hostages say the Brussels bomber guarded them alongside another man. That man happens to be in custody for an attack on a Jewish
museum in Brussels in 2014.
Now terror touched the city of Brussels one month ago. The airport has been gradually restoring operations and should be running at full capacity
in June. Erin McLaughlin gets a look inside the airport terminal that came under attack.
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the first time we have been able to access the departure hall here at the Zaventem International
Airport. A month ago, this was the scene of complete and utter devastation, but now it is very much a construction site.
It is surreal standing here knowing the chaos that unfolded that tragic day. Surveillance footage shows the three alleged attackers wheeling their
luggage trolleys through this hall.
The first suicide blast happening just seconds apart, the third bomb was detonated by authorities once the hall had been evacuated. The (inaudible)
construction belies what was a scene of terror as tons of people running for their lives in fear.
The image of a flight attendant sitting shocked, her face covered in blood found of a child crying, these are the images that will be with this
As you can see, they are working to get this airport back up and running. It is still not operating at full capacity. They set up a temporary check-
in facility not far from here.
There's multiple layers of security there. Passengers are screened before and after they check in. Military's also present as authorities are taking
no chances. Erin McLaughlin, CNN, Zaventem Airport, Brussels.
GORANI: On earth day, a pretty big moment in the drive to reduce global warming. You'll remember that climate act agreed to last December in
Paris. It was signed today at the U.N.
Representatives for more than 160 countries were part of the deal, but the pact will not take effect until certain thresholds are met. The actor,
Leonardo Dicaprio, says the world needs to come together now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEONARDO DICARPIO, ACTOR: An upheaval, a massive change, is required right now. One that leads to a new collective consciousness, a new collective
evolution of the human race, inspired and enabled by a sense of urgency from all of you. We all know that reversing the course of climate change
will not be easy, but the tools are in our hands if we apply them before it is too late.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Now some people around the world are familiar with not having electricity all day, not everybody lived in first world countries with 24/7
power. Well, that type of situation is going to hit Venezuela pretty hard.
Starting next week, cities across the country will only have power for four hours a day. The government has just announced this in an attempt to save
electricity after a drought. Rafael Romo has that.
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR (voice-over): Blow drying her hair at a beauty salon. It's been a daily routine for Glenda
Bolivar (ph) for a long time. "You don't want to see my natural hair," she says. But for now, her natural style will have to do.
As part of measures to save power, the Venezuelan government has asked people to reduce the use of hair dryers and other electrical devices like
"Pretty soon we will only be able to use candles like the old times," she says. Earlier this month, President Nicholas Maduro decreed a four-day
work week forcing people, especially government workers, to take Fridays off.
And now the Venezuelan energy minister says there will be rolling blackouts. The four-hour long blackouts will happen each day nationwide.
The energy minister says they'll begin Monday and will last 40 days. Why?
(on camera): Venezuelan officials say a drought caused by the El Nino weather pattern has greatly reduced Venezuela's ability to produce enough
power at a dam that provides 75 percent of the country's electricity.
Water levels at the dam are very low. The minister says the blackouts will allow levels to stabilize. Outside observers who are experts on Venezuelan
affairs say it is not El Nino's fault, but years of mismanagement and lack of investment in the power grid by the socialist government.
[15:25:03]Maduro was deeply embarrassed last month when the power went out on a broadcast he was making on live television. A little taste of the
bitter reality have reached Venezuelans endure on a daily basis. Rafael Romo, CNN.
GORANI: When we come back, we'll revisit one of our top stories, a bitter debate and a big intervention. I'll be speaking to people from both sides
of the argument as Barack Obama weighs into Britain's E.U. referendum.
GORANI: Welcome back. Our top story, while the U.S. president says he is a friend of U.K., and as such he is giving the country advice and weighing
in on the U.K.'s referendum in leaving the European Union.
Barack Obama says a Brexit would Britain, quote, "at the back of the queue on any pre-trade deal with the U.S. Mr. Obama also wrote an editorial in
"The Telegraph" newspaper urging to vote to stay.
Also among our top stories, authorities are trying to find out why the world has lost a legend so unexpectedly. A medical examiner has just
finished the autopsy on Prince a day after he died at his home in Minnesota.
Full reports including a toxicology report could be days or even weeks away. The local sheriff will bring us an update in about half-an-hour.
We'll bring you that live.
Also new details are emerging about one of the suicide bombers who attacked the Brussels airport last month. The Belgian cleaning company says it
indeed hired this man to work on a temporary basis at the airport in 2011 and 2012. He ended up blowing himself up, investigators say, at the
airport. Another bomber also worked for the same company but not at the airport.
Let us get more on our top story, Mr. Obama's strong warning against Britain leaving the E.U. CNN's senior political reporter, Stephen
Collinson, wrote an article for CNN Digital focused on how a Brexit could impact the United States. He joins me now from Washington.
So Stephen, why does the U.S. care so much about this question? Why does it care if Britain leaves the E.U. or stays in the E.U.?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR ENTERPRISE REPORTER: Well, I think as we saw in the president's news conference with David Cameron today, he
views it as a crucial national security interest of the United States, first of all Washington has long enjoyed having a partner, a close ally
like Britain in the middle of the European Union.
Often on trade and economic questions Britain has been more close to the U.S. point of view philosophically than other allies like France and
The other reason is that Washington is worried that if Britain leaves the E.U., this could precipitate a further fragmenting of the union. We can
see other countries deciding they want to leave the E.U. too that would --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICAL SENIOR ENTERPRISE REPORTER: .. other allies like France and Germany. And the other reason is that Washington is
worried that if Britain leaves the E.U. this could precipitate a further fragmenting of the union. We could see other countries decide they want to
leave the E.U. too. That would lead to political chaos on the continent at a time when you know the security of Europe is very much in question. We've
seen a rise of more aggressive behavior by Russia. We have the refugee crisis you know consuming Europe from the south.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINSON: So there is a real fear I think that Europe in the case of a "brexit" would not be the kind of strong, robust ally that Washington
wants the other side of the Atlantic.
HALA GORANI, HOST: And by the way, stay with me but we have new video. It wasn't all politics. It's also visits with the royals all day today on this
rainy and frankly very miserable Friday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: First, lunch with the Queen and Prince Philip. And this is Prince William, the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, greeting President Obama and
First Lady Michelle and Prince Harry is well there as well. Kind of a casual relaxed dinner a kiss on each cheek there. And Kensington Palace
Stephen released still photographs from inside Kensington Palace which were renovated recently to the tune of 4 million pounds, about $6 million.
In London I think that buys you a two bedroom in Knotting Hill. I don't know it's kind of a bargain I guess when you live here.
Either way, what is the importance here of President Obama visiting? What is this? Because this is all basically -- it's ceremony. There's nothing
political about this. What is in it in terms of the imagery here being projected for the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINSON: Well, it is a very interesting performance by the President. He mixed flattery, talking about how much admires the Queen, for example,
talking about the greatness of Britain in the past, playing up its role as a significant power now, with a threat in a way to try to convince British
voters in two different ways.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINSON: The threat was that if Britain leaves the European Union, it could not spent a swift trade deal with the United States to make up for
its lack after competitiveness of Europe. That of course is one of the key points of the remaining campaign and that would be possible. So we have
flattery on the one side and threats on the other. And President Obama I think is really deploying his power, the power that he has to influence
this referendum in very interesting ways.
GORANI: And by the way, also I want to get your take on this. Because British book makers as you know are always very active putting out new sets
of odds based on the latest developments. Now after President Obama's op-ed in "The Telegraph" newspaper, British bookmakers essentially increased the
odds that the U.K. would remain in the E.U. So the E.U. referendum betting barometer from the bookie's, Ladbrokes they say they have seen "the
biggest betting shift of the campaign so far with 90% of bets placed in the last two days for the remain side." And I actually got that wrong. It's
the number of bets placed on the remain side have increased to 90% of all bets. So basically people are seeing this, President Barack Obama's
intervention, as having potentially a big impact.
COLLINSON: Yeah. I think it is clearly one of the -- if not the most important moment yet in the referendum campaign before that vote in June.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINSON: And I think it validates to some extent -- it is not a scientific survey but it validates to some extent the White House's view
that President Obama didn't actually have that much to lose with this intervention into the referendum campaign despite the fact that people want
to leave the E.U. say he is interfering in U.S. Politics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINSON: I think they're banking on the fact that President Obama is still an admired and popular figure in the United Kingdom. And you know
he's a President in the last nine months of his presidency, I think there is a sense that the President does not want to leave anything unsaid. And
he's more liberated perhaps than he might have been earlier in his presidency and he's basically gone over and told people look, I'm going to
be honest, this is what I think and take of it what you will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, Stephen Collinson, thanks very much. And now our viewers as well can go to cnn.com and read your excellent article.
While politicians in the United Kingdom are reacting to Barack Obama's strong intervention in the so-called "brexit" debate, one man certainly in
favor of staying firmly in the E.U. is Paddy Ashdown, the former Liberal Democrat Party leader. I spoke to him earlier. I asked him about the views
of London Mayor, Boris Johnson, who was vociferous in his criticism of the American President.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PADDY ASHDOWN, FORMER LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY LEADER: Listen, Johnson and others seem to believe they still live in the world when Britain was a
central power. You remember the deadly words of Dean Acheson who once said Britain has lost an empire but yet to find a role. These people are stuck
in the past.
GORANI: But he - but he's essentially saying, look, we can go -- we can be outside the E.U., remain a powerful country, have a say in our own affairs
without any external influence, we can secure our borders. One of the things that one of the statistics he quotes in his piece, that the extra
cost of remaining inside the E.U. is actually almost $3 billion U.S. a year, that the U.K. is continuously outvoted in Brussels, up to 40 times in
the past five years. Why should we live with that?
ASHDOWN: Well, the answer is that they fiddled the figures, by the way. It is far less than that. But let's for a moment accept this completely
fantasy figure Mr. Johnson has suggested. Yes, that's true we have to pay to be part of this club but the benefits we get back are ten times what we
put in. The CBR, is no friend of anybody, an independent institution which is the Confederation of British Industry, has calculated the average the
British citizen puts into the European Union every year in terms of costs 350 pounds and gets a return of 3,000 pounds in benefit. That sounds like a
good - a pretty good deal to me. And the idea of Britain can suddenly -- by the way, it would be England. Britain would no longer --
GORANI: Because Scotland said that it would essentially break away from the union if the U.K. decided to leave in this referendum.
ASHDOWN: On the best terms. But they said there would be a second referendum and I have no doubt whatsoever if the Scottish people choose a
future in Europe, which they will, denied to them by English votes you will not have a United Kingdom and you will not have a Union Jack, a British
So what Mr. Boris Johnson is suggesting is that you have a diminished little England surrounded by Europe on all sides and living in some fantasy
world they are still a super power. Frankly, these toughening Churchill's that are striking around striking brave poses and making speeches about
we'll fight them on the beaches completely ignore Britain's great tradition which is to get engaged and build alliances and to win votes.
GORANI: And you mentioned Churchill and Churchill of course was referenced in this Boris Johnson piece. And it did -- it has raised some eyebrows, it
has to be said. In the U.S., he mentioned the instance in which President Obama had a Churchill bust removed from the oval office. And then said --
wrote "some said it was a symbol of the part Kenyan President's ancestral dislike of the British empire." What do you make of that particular line?
ASHDOWN: I have to say that Mr. Johnson and the others are getting desperate for arguments. That is scraping the bottom of the barrel as
though we reached some fantastic geopolitical conclusion about the relationship with the United States if George Washington's picture was
moved a few rooms away from the center of Downing -- it is a crazy argument. And it shows how --
GORANI: But it plays well - it plays well, does it not, with those who support an exit from the E.U.?
ASHDOWN: Oh, it plays well to a collection of people who are little Englanders, who are deluded by the fantasy that sovereignty rests in a
nation rather than sovereignly - a national sovereignty being best anchored in pooling some aspects with others just as the United States does in the -
and in the World Trade Organization. These are little Englander isolationists who are trying to build upon a fantasy. Does it play well to
those people? It certainly does. Are we in danger of being led by these arguments in to a decision which will be disastrous for Britain? Yes, it
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, Paddy Ashdown speaking to me a little bit earlier, thanks to him.
You heard in that interview some criticism of President Obama by London Mayor Boris Johnson. It concerned -- this was a huge deal because Boris
Johnson the London Mayor wrote an op-ed or a piece in the Sun tabloid newspaper. It concerned that bust of Winston Churchill that was in the Oval
office for about ten years and that was removed and he said essentially this was a sign that Mr. Obama did not have respect for the British Empire.
Well earlier Mr. Obama responded to that criticism. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right outside the door of the treaty room, so that I see it every day, including on weekends when I'm
going into that office to watch a basketball game, the primary image I see is a bust of Winston Churchill. It's there voluntarily because I can do
anything on the second floor. I love Winston Churchill. I love the guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: There you have it. So maybe that will lay that to rest. You just heard Paddy Ashdown earlier making the case for the U.K. to stay inside the
E.U. There are two sides to every argument.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Coming up, we'll hear from an advocate of the leave camp; that drastically different perspective, next.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Welcome back. There is some breaking news in the automotive world. Fiat Chrysler says it's recalling around 800,000 vehicles, cars and SUV's.
Apparently it's too easy for drivers to exit their vehicles before shifting them into park. That of course allows that vehicle to roll away, not a good
thing. So as a result Fiat Chrysler is recalling these vehicles. So we'll bring you more details on this in terms of exactly what vehicles we're
talking about and whether it not it impacts you if you happen to own that brand of car.
We just brought you a strong voice in favor of staying inside the E.U. While Paddy Ashdown welcomes the U.S. President's warning against leaving,
others think U.K. voters do not need Barack Obama's opinion in this matter.
John Redwood is a Conservative M.P., and the former Secretary of State for Wales, he is a strong advocate for the leave camp and he joins me now live.
Thank you, sir. Paddy Ashdown basically called those who support a "brexit," leaving the European Union, little Englander isolationists.
(inaudible) Churchill's were deluded by the fantasy that sovereignty rests in a nation and not in cooperation in bigger institutions like the E.U.
How do you respond to the fact that essentially he's calling people like you who support the "brexit" little Englanders.
JOHN REDWOOD, CONSERVATIVE M.P.: Well, I don't think it matters very much what Paddy Ashdown calls me. I'm sure he would like to abuse me, I don't
wish to abuse him. We're globalists, we're optimists, we want to live in the 21st century. We see the European Union as a tarred old bereaucracy
left over from the middle 20th century. It may have answered some problems then, it just creates problems now.
It's causing distention in Europe, it's causing difficult politics in Europe. It's impoverishing quite a lot of the south of its continent with
its very ill-judged Euro scheme. We went to end austerity, we want Britain to it be an important country around the world working with many countries,
with many new and old friends, independent as America is independent.
GORANI: But why leave the European Union, that gives the U.K. so much more bargaining power, just to become a middle sized economy that has to
renegotiate every single trade or important strategic deal that it has as part of the E.U. Why is that a benefit to the U.K. at this stage?
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REDWOOD: Well none of that is true of course. And what the European Union has done is its thrown Britain off a lot of world bodies we would otherwise
belong to and has stowed on our vote and our voice. We don't have a vote and a voice in the World Trade Organization or in the World Climate Talks
all the time we're in the E.U. Once we're out of there, as the fifth largest economy in the world and one of the most important military powers
after the United States of America in the world, we will have our own alliances and friends and we will be more influential rather than less.
REDWOOD: And we don't lose all the existing agreements we've got. We have many agreements outside the European Union, and of course we are members of
the World Trade Organization although we aren't allowed to vote and a voice under E.U. rules at the moment and so all that stays in place when we take
our proper place around the table --
GORANI: But President Obama is saying essentially, you leave the E.U., you start from scratch, you go to the back of the queue, President Obama is
saying. What do you make of the fact that the U.S. President is weighing in on this debate?
REDWOOD: Well, he's obviously trying to be friendly to David Cameron, our Prime Minister and it would obviously be convenient from America's point of
view if Britain is their voice in the European Union because other members of the European Union are often more hostile to United States of America
than we are.
But once we've left America will want to trade with us, just as she does at the moment. And of course it's a bit rich to say we'll be at the back of
the queue for a trade agreement because the U.K. has been in the European Union for 43 years now and we have to let the E.U. handle our trade
arrangements and over the whole 43 years the E.U. hasn't gotten around to having a trade agreement with the United States of America, our best friend
and our biggest single country trading partner. I think we'd have got it through much more quickly on our own.
GORANI: So you think the E.U. got in the way. John Redwood though what do you say to the idea that perhaps by promoting the campaign, by supporting
the campaign to leave the E.U., essentially you are supporting the idea of breaking up Great Britain. Because Scotland will hold another referendum,
they might want to say within the E.U., there goes Great Britain, it just becomes England and Wales and part of Ireland. What do you say to that?
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REDWOOD: Well, I just don't believe it. We've just had a very democratic process where the Scots voted to stay with the United Kingdom because they
wished to do so. I only want volunteers in our union. Scotland is just 8% of the output and income of the United Kingdom. I think they'll stay with
us. But Southern Ireland broke away from the United Kingdom in 1921. It was a tragedy at the time but I'm pleased to say we are now good friends with
the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom remains the fifth largest economy in the world.
GORANI: All right, with that said, we have to leave it there. We will continue -- hopefully we'll be able to have a discussion as we get closer
REDWOOD: Well, there's plenty more to say. You know we wish to be an independent free country like the United States of America and we don't
need the American President to tell us we shouldn't have the freedom and liberty that he expects for himself.
GORANI: All right, thank you very much, John Redwood, we really appreciate it. A Conservative M.P. with very strong views there on the "brexit"
referendum upcoming on June 23, very firmly in the leave camp.
U.S. President Barack Obama waded into that "brexit" debate in the news conference with the British Prime Minister. He touched as well on the war
against ISIS in Syria and Iraq. We know the U.S. and the U.K. have used drone strikes to target high-profile targets. Our Clarissa Ward met a
Pakistani man who fled his homeland because he says he believes he is on an American kill list.
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CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hala, Malik Jalal is a member of the North Waziristan Peace Committee which acts as an
interlocutor between the Taliban and the Pakistan government but he is adamant that he is no terrorist.
Pakistani tribal elder, Malik Jalal, is convinced he is on the U.S.' kill list. Jalal is from the dangerous Waziristan region along the Afghan
border, a one-time Taliban strong hold that has borne the brunt of the U.S. drone campaign in Pakistan.
MALIK JALAL, NORTH WAZIRISTAN PEACE COMMITTEE: (As translated) Since 2010 there have been four drone attacks that occurred very close to me and in
one of the attacks the glass window, the back of my car, was broken. In another attack my car was completely destroyed.
WARD: Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that you're on a kill list?
JALAL: (As translated) I haven't seen the list with my own eyes, but Afghans who work as translators with the CIA have told me that I'm on it.
WARD: He told us that friends and family have been killed in strikes he believes were targeting him. He resorted to sleeping outside, away from his
children in case of another strike. He even moved to a different city. And eventually, he decided to come to the U.K. to ask the government here to
help him clear his name and to raise awareness about the impact of drones on his community.
JALAL: (As translated) I have come to the U.K. because the U.K. is close to America. Whenever America attacks anyone, the U.K. supports them.
WARD: A lot of people watching this will say, if you are on a kill list, there must be a reason for it. How do you respond to that?
JALAL: (As translated) I would say that an elderly mother was attacked by drones. What sin did she commit? 120 to 130 children were killed. What
wrong did these children do? The only sin of Waziristani people is that we wear turbans and in the eyes of America, they see us all as Taliban.
WARD: Under President Obama, the use of drones as increase exponentially particularly in Pakistan. According to the Bureau of Investigative
Journalism, at least 250 civilians have been killed since 2009, prompting a wave of protests across the country. Jalal says he is not a terrorist and
he does not support the Taliban. He believes the only solution is to stop the drone strikes and start negotiations with the hope that eventually he
can go back home.
JALAL: (As translated) Even in my dreams, I see my house. I love my family and the people of the village, and this love is always there. 24 hours in
my heart. But the Americans have forced me to leave.
WARD: The rate of drone strikes inside Pakistan has gone down dramatically recently with just two recorded this year. CNN did reach out to the CIA
which runs drone operations in Pakistan to ask about Mr. Jalal's case. We were told simply that the CIA does not comment on such matters. British
authorities told us the same thing. But, Hala, it seems unlikely that Mr. Jalal is on this list of targets terrorists if he was able to get a visa to
travel here to the U.K. Hala?
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GORANI: All right, thanks Clarissa Ward. We'll be right back with a lot more.
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GORANI: Well this was a guitar solo played on stage with Tom Petty and other "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" and then of course Prince there as
many of you have seen the video know rally stole the spotlight. A stunning guitar solo, genius musical collaborations, epic showmanship, all
characteristics the world will think of when they remember Prince and they were showcased here at the 2004 Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Induction when he
performed, as I mentioned there, that song "While my Guitar Gently Weeps" with Tom Petty and Jeff Flynn, and Steve Winwood was also there. And by the
way just programming we are awaiting a police news conference at the top of the hour. So we'll bring you that live when it happens.
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GORANI: Tributes are pouring in the day after Prince's sudden death. Age only 57. It's really taken this 24 hours for people to wrap their mind
around the contribution that Prince made to pop culture. Will Hodgkinson is the Chief Rock and Pop critic for the Times and he joins me here in London.
So Will, last time I had you on sadly it was David Bowie's death that was unexpected and now Prince, 57. Just give us a sense of the significance of
his contribution to pop.
WILL HODGKINSON, CHIEF ROCK AND POP CRITIC, THE TIMES: Absolutely huge. First of all, we can take the fact that he was an incredible musician. We
can take that for granted when you play 27 instruments, do 24 hour rehearsal sessions, incredible stamina. But it wasn't that. He went beyond.
And I think what it was that there were no boundaries. And so racially, there were no boundaries. With gender there weren't really any boundaries.
You know he came along sort of burst through the at the MTV period and the visual imagery he understood had to be as important to him as the music,
but not more important.
GORANI: Right, that's very important. I understand you met Prince.
HODGKINSON: I did. I met him in the Caribbean. It was a very unusual experience.
GORANI: Tell us about it.
HODGKINSON: OK, well it happened at midnight and this was after many, many false starts. And I was waiting around for a very long time. It was in a
kind of - it was like a sort of bond lair, you know it looked -- I imagined if I asked him the wrong question the floor would open up and sharks would
eat me. I mean it was terrifying. He turned up he's wearing a white turban, white Maharaji outfit, white high heels. He had the most beautiful girl
I've ever seen on his arm, she never said a word, and she was there for the entire interview. Wasn't allowed to tape it, wasn't allowed to take notes.
GORANI: I understand that that's what he did with journalists.
HODGKINSON: That's what he did.
GORANI: But how do you write a piece? How do you actually - do you have to memorize word for word?
HODGKINSON: Well the thing is is obviously you're going to misquote because you can't memorize word for word. And I realized after he was a stroke of
genius. He was the last enigma, he was like a silent movie star, and what he did he made people deliberately misquote because what you do if you
can't record is, you -
GORANI: -- or take notes.
HODGKINSON: -- or take notes you talk about the experience. You talk about how he looked. You talk about the whole thing. And I remember lines, you
know but mainly what the piece was really about was this bizarre phenomenon of - you know -- he was not like any other rock star I've ever met.
GORANI: Yes, and let's talk a little bit also about - and by the way, you mentioned the beautiful -- apparently he just never left home without a
beautiful woman on his arm.
HODGKINSON: Well I think there was certainly no shortage.
GORANI: Yes, let's talk a little bit also about the impact that he had on other artists because I think also that's important. The fact that, like
David Bowie, the artists that came after were very inspired by that music and Prince then of course then huge influence on pop music. He wrote so
many songs for others.
HODGKINSON: He did. Well I mean take "Nothing Compares To You," that's such a beautiful song.
GORANI: Sinead O'Conner.
HODGKINSON: Yes, and he was so good that he thought, well, don't need to record that, I'll give it to someone else. And so he gave it to this Irish
singer who did a heartfelt an beautiful version. But you know, this is, it's not usual for someone to just be able to kind of you know toss away
something like that.
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GORANI: You have so - you have what at any given time he may have had 400 or 500 possibly a few thousand unrecorded tracks.
HODGKINSON: Well we know about the vault. You know this was in Paisley Park where everything he recorded went. And apparently it's -- we've got the tip
of the iceberg.
GORANI: And, we only have a minute left and frankly, I wish we had longer but what is your - and I asked you this about David Bowie. What is your
HODGKINSON: I really like "Raspberry Beret." It is not the most emotional but I think around the world in the day it was such a great song because it
was Prince doing the Beatles album.
GORANI: I was wondering if it was one of the ones we had ready to go, but it wasn't. And by the way we had trouble finding - we got it! Here we go!
we got it! Run it then for a second!
By the way, I cannot just -- every time a Prince song comes on, I've got to mark the beat. I've got to dance! I'm not a great dancer. But mine is
"Sometimes it Snows in April," can't tell you why it just is.
HODGKINSON: I love that song.
GORANI: Yes, absolutely. Will Hodgkinson, thanks so much, we really appreciate your time as always.
HODGKINSON: Thank you.
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GORANI: And stay with CNN for the very latest on the death of Prince. That police news conference is set to begin at the top of the hour and we expect
local officials to hopefully provide more information on the investigation into the death of the pop star.
Do stay with us, this has been ""The World Right Now" I'm Hala Gorani, "Quest Means Business" is next.