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Prince Remembered by Fans; Donald Trump Holds Rally in Connecticut; Trump Campaign Manager Discusses Political Strategy Going Forward; Ted Cruz Holds Rally in Pennsylvania; Bernie Sanders Back on Campaign Trail. Aired 10-11a ET

Aired April 23, 2016 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:12] CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Always so grateful for your company. Good morning, everybody. I'm Christi Paul.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Victor Blackwell live outside Prince's estate here in Chanhassen, Minnesota. It's 10:00 on the east coast, 7:00 on the west coast. We'll have live coverage throughout the hour on the live and the legacy and now the investigation into the death of Prince, and the investigation continues this morning.

But first the latest political news with Christi. Back to you.

PAUL: Victor, thank you so much. We are going to take you here live, there we go, looking at live pictures as hundreds of supporters are gathered in Waterbury, Connecticut there, and any moment GOP frontrunner Donald Trump is expected to hold his first event of the day. A lot of people wondering which Trump are going to see? Only Trump's top adviser Paul Manafort knows, and we're talking to him just a little bit later in the hour to get more on Trump's campaign reboot. But the presidential candidate, not just Trump, all the candidates fanning out across the northeast today trying to shore up votes as five states head to the polls Tuesday in another critical round of contests.

We want to start with CNN politics reporter M. J. Lee, again, who is live inside that Trump rally. What are we learning that he might have to say this morning, M. J., anything different than what we've heard previously?

M. J. LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I can tell you the crowd in Waterbury right now is very, very fired up as we wait for Donald Trump to take the stage behind me in just a few minutes.

Connecticut of course is one of five states that will participate in the GOP primary contest next week, and that's why Donald Trump is spending much of his day campaigning in the state of Connecticut. What we'll be listening out for today Christi as Trump takes the stage is his tone. As you know over the last few days both Donald Trump and his senior adviser Paul Manafort have suggested that he may evolve in the way that he campaigns and the kind of tone that he uses on the trail. Manafort actually told reporters this week that the way that Trump is in public setting is different from how he is in private setting.

Now, I can tell you, when I spoke to some Trump supporters here at this rally and asked them about these developments, I got some mixed reactions. One supporter told me that she would actually be very disappointed if she saw Trump taking a different tone because something that she loved about him is the fact that she thinks that he speaks his mind. Another Trump supporter that I spoke to said that she actually doesn't believe what Manafort is saying and that she believes Trump is exactly the same in public and in private. So I guess we'll find out in just a few minutes which Donald Trump decides to show up to this rally. Christi?

PAUL: All right, M. J. Lee, we appreciate it so much. Thank you.

(MUSIC)

BLACKWELL: I'm outside the compound where Prince bore the fruit of his musical genius. It's where so many of Prince's classics were born. It's where he spent his final moment before his sudden death on Thursday. And now investigators are really pouring over the clues collected here, trying to figure out what happened.

Now, let's get you latest of what we know right now as this investigation moves forward. First, Prince's autopsy has been completed but the full report, including toxicology, could take days or weeks to get that back. Investigators are, though, ruling out suicide. They also say that there were no signs of trauma. Also they're promising to leave no stone unturned. We know that Prince's body has been released to his family.

Stephanie Elam has the very latest on the outpouring of love here at the estate. What are you hearing from the fans, what are you seeing as we know that the crowd is growing here outside of Paisley Park?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is, Victor. And it continues to grow. Each day you come out here and you can see that this sort of makeshift memorial outside of Paisley Park continues to grow, people bringing flowers, balloons, obviously a whole lot of purple, as you would expect, for Prince to be remembered with.

I talked to one woman who said she just felt the need to drive out here. She drove about seven hours overnight. She just said she needed to do something to come remember Prince because of his music and she hopes that the younger generations get to know his music as well. She was saying it's just important because the music is so much a part of her life. And that's something you keep hearing from people, that his music is pretty much a soundtrack for a lot of different years, different eras throughout people's growing up and becoming adult, and it meant so much to them that they felt the need to come out here. People from Italy leaving messages, people traveling great distances to be here, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, Stephanie, we've seen the crowds grow, some bringing flowers, a lot of people wearing purple as they arrive here at Paisley Park. [10:05:05] And let's talk more about Prince. He is such an interesting character because there's so many elements of his personality, his persona that are outgoing, that are daring, but in many ways he was also very conservative. And we know that a lot of his music focused on faith, and it impacted the world of gospel.

So joining me now to join the conversation is Gospel great and Prince Friend Bebe Winans. Bebe, it's good to have you with us on the show this morning.

BEBE WINANS, GOSPEL RECORDING ARTIST: Thank you, thank you. It's good to be here.

BLACKWELL: So we know that Prince was unafraid, unashamed, in very many ways a seductive singer. But how was it working, you as a gospel artist with Prince who some of his song titles I can't even say on morning television?

(LAUGHTER)

WINANS: One of the things about musicians and artists, you have a respect for someone who is creative. When you lose someone from the music industry, it's just like losing a family member. And so you sit back and you kind of take it in. I met him years ago. And it was funny. It was at a Grammy's party, and he was going out, and he went into the car. And I thought I saw him. And then someone called my name. And then Prince got out the car and came up and just started speaking about me and my sister's music, what it meant to him.

And I saw him two years ago at the Music Care. We were honoring Barbra Streisand. And he was just one of those people didn't have many words to say, but he was very sincere in what he was doing. And so there was a respect for him because he did follow a lot of the lyrics, of his lyrics was from the scriptures. But he had a rhythm and a beat that you can't deny. No matter what you believed or what genre of music you came from, he was an incredible musician.

BLACKWELL: There's so many songs that from the 80s as soon as you hear it you can tell which decade in which it was written and produced. But many of Prince's songs are timeless because they used real instruments. Not everything came out of a synthesizer.

When the news broke this there are many people who immediately thought of Michael Jackson and then thought of Whitney Houston, and now losing Prince, you were, I know, a very close friend of Whitney Houston and, if I remember correctly, sang at her funeral. When you got the news this week of a third great now dying, what went through your mind?

WINANS: It's difficult because earlier this year we lost Natalie Cole. You just sit back and really try to tell those people who you love that you love them because tomorrow is not promised. No matter how great you are, no matter how much people know you and if you're a celebrity or not.

So it just causes you to sit back. I sit back and I appreciate and started celebrating his life instead of wondering how he died, it was all about how he lived. And so it's a big loss. It really is. And we should celebrate each other now while we have the chance.

BLACKWELL: You know, there are -- we've had many conversations over the last couple of days about how Prince's could not have been confined to one genre. It was rock. It was pop. It was soulful in many ways. And as someone who knows gospel and the impact and influence of gospel on other genres and other genres influence on gospel, where do you see the gospel influence on Prince's music?

WINANS: It had messages and an undertone right being right and also causing people to really respect each other, to bring us together, talk about those things that we don't want to talk about, racism and various other things. He took risks and didn't care what people thought. And that to me was important. Beyond what he said, what he did was more important as well. I heard a lot of people talk about those things that he did to help people. And that's what, you know, what I'm all about is helping people, whether people know about it or not. And so I respect him. Some things like you said, you know, I was kind of risky. At the same time just a lovely man. You know, those moments that I've had, that I spent with him, I really enjoyed, the man outside of the music.

BLACKWELL: So we know that the world premiere of your musical "Born For This" debuts tonight in Atlanta. If I'm not here, I'd be there with you face to face. Should the people there, the audience, should they expect any tributes to Prince tonight?

[10:10:11] WINANS: Well, one of the things that in the musical born for this, we celebrate Whitney Houston. And so someone came up to me after the preview yesterday and said, you know, this moment where you're celebrating Whitney, I had a chance to celebrate Prince as well. One of the things that we know, we'll have his music for the rest of our lives. And so in that moment I think we celebrate Prince as well when we celebrate Whitney Houston and what she gave us as well. So I think people will see that in that moment.

BLACKWELL: Although we've lost these icons, their music is still with us. As we've been told, there's a vault inside Paisley Park with hours and hours of unreleased material. And we'll see if some of that comes to the public, if that comes to fruition any time soon. Bebe Winans, good to talk to you this morning.

WINANS: Good to talk to you, sir.

BLACKWELL: Christi, back to you.

PAUL: Thank you, Victor. Thank you, Bebe.

Still to come on NEW DAY, the man who says there are two sides to Donald Trump. He should know. He's Donald Trump's senior adviser. Paul Manafort joining us live after this. Stay close.

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PAUL: North Korea appears to be at it again. South Korea's military on high alert this hour after it says the North fired a missile from a sub after the Korean coast. And now the missile didn't hit anything. This much we know. It was fired toward the open sea apparently. But it's the latest in a number of missiles North Korea has launched, an apparent response to military drills between the U.S. and South Korea.

While he wouldn't comment on the test specifically, State Department spokesman John Kirby said launches using ballistic missile technology are a clear violation of multiple U.N. Security Council resolutions.

[10:15:10] One U.S. official, however, tells CNN that North Korea's sub launch capability has gone from a joke to something very serious and that the U.S. is watching this very closely this morning.

Thousands of people are gathered at a Donald Trump rally in Connecticut. There's a live picture for you right now. This is the first of two in the state today for him. This morning's appearance coming off the heels of his team offering an olive branch of sorts to GOP insiders at a closed door meeting this week in Florida, promising officials that Trump's attacks on the party are just an act.

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PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CAMPAIGN CONVENTION MANAGER: When he's on the stage, when he's talking about the kinds of things he's talking about on the stump, he's projecting an image that's for that purpose. The play is evolving into the part that now you've been expecting but he wasn't ready for.

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PAUL: It appears Donald Trump wasn't ready to give up that part last night. He railed against Ted Cruz and the delegate system again. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have millions more votes than Cruz, millions more votes than Kasich. I have almost 300 more delegates than Cruz, even though it's a crooked system and he goes around taking them out, they take him out to dinner, they send him to hotels. It's such a crooked system it's disgusting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: So let's talk to Paul Manafort. He's the convention manager for the Donald Trump campaign. Mr. Manafort, thank you for being here.

MANAFORT: Thank you, Christi.

PAUL: Sure. You just reassured the RNC that Trump's attacks as we saw there were part of a persona. But again then we see him there last night. What would you say to the RNC this morning after his comments?

MANAFORT: Well, I mean, his comments are consistent with what I was talking about. What I was talking about to the RNC because I was asked a question is that the Trump campaign, which has been based on Mr. Trump's communication directly with the American people, was going to be evolving into other forums as well where Mr. Trump would be speaking not different messages and not different beliefs but would be speaking in different settings so that, for example, in the foreign policy speech he's going to give next week, some of the things that he's talked about in the rallies would be talked about in a different context but not in a different message.

Mr. Trump next week will be still speaking about how he' going to build a wall, how he's still going to end illegal immigration, how he's still going to end the unfair trade deals. Nowhere was I talking about there being a different Donald Trump. What I was talking about was there being a different environment where different parts of the message would be presented in a way that was different from a campaign rally.

So there would be no reason to change who the man has been, probably the most effective modern communicator in politics certainly since Reagan. And even when you think about Reagan, Reagan was a communicator who developed his connection to the American people in 12 years, Donald Trump has done it in 12 months. And he's done it because he's a straight shooter. He's done it because he understands that the American people don't want any more of the Washington gridlock. They want someone who is going to represent their interests. And he's been clear about it.

And whether he saying it at a rally this afternoon or he does it at the National Press Club next week, it's going to be the same message because that's what Donald Trump believes, that's who he is, and this campaign rhetoric about Ted Cruz that there are two different Trumps is really a subterfuge by Cruz, which I understand. He's losing. He's losing badly. He knows that Tuesday he's going to lose five states and could finish third in all those states. And he doesn't want that to be what the message is, so he's distorting my words, which is probably why the moniker of "Lyin' Ted" has stuck.

PAUL: The tone, though, of Donald Trump no doubt is incendiary, not just to the RNC but to many people who are watching. And we heard your end of the conversation there on Thursday with the RNC. What we haven't heard is how did the RNC officials react to your comments.

MANAFORT: What I was trying to tell the RNC this week was that Donald Trump understands that we need to unify the party. And I was telling him that sometime in mid-May his path to 1,237 is going to be very clear. And by June 7th when the California primary and New Jersey primaries and the whole primary process ends, it's going to be evident that he's the nominee. And as the leader of the Republican Party, it will be incumbent on the party to come together to do the things that are necessary to prepare for the November election.

Ted Cruz said something which I agree with. He said a fractured convention is the worst thing that could happen to the Republican Party. I agree with that. In fact, when Donald Trump by the end of the process is beating Ted Cruz by 4 million or 5 million votes, and when he's at 1,237 or better, it's time for the party to unite. That was the message I was carrying to the Republican National Committee this week. [10:20:06] PAUL: Do you think, though, with the rhetoric that we hear

from Donald Trump as in what he was just saying about the way that the delegates are handled, is that a unifying tone? And is there anything that he can, that Trump can do, that he is willing to do, shall I say, to better his relationship with the RNC?

MANAFORT: Well, one of the reasons why Donald Trump has had such a response by the American people, including the political system, is because he speaks his mind, he speaks the truth, he speaks it clearly, and in his comments there's always truth.

What he's saying about the political process is transparency in the modern political times is confused. The voters think they're voting for a candidate for president and they expect that vote to be meaningful. And when you break out the difference between a vote for the candidate and the delegates, those are two different things. And Trump started the conversation. He knows he's not going to change the rules in the middle of the stream. He doesn't want to. He's winning under these rules. But what he's saying is that for the American people to believe in the system, you have to makes system transparent and real.

Just like he says the rigged banking system has to be changed. Just like he says Wall Street has to be taken out of politics. What he says in all these messages is very consistent. Ted Cruz doesn't like that because he's losing to that, and so he has to change the facts in order to change the narrative. But it's not going to work.

PAUL: Mr. Manafort, let me ask you, you are seasoned when it comes to campaigns, no doubt about it. You' worked for presidential campaigns with Gerald formed, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, George Bush, so this is not new territory for you specifically, but I would think that Donald Trump himself being as unconventional as he is, is in territory. What would you -- when you first came on to this campaign, what was the first thing perhaps you felt like you wanted to modify, to change, to tackle? And was it his tone? Do you think he sounds presidential?

MANAFORT: I didn't want to change anything. I just wanted it make sure the system didn't work against his interests and helped him to organize the campaign. He thought -- he recognized the need for an evolution of his campaign, not a change of his campaign. Back in the beginning of the campaign, he understood he had to communicate his message, and to do that he had to win states in order to have credibility. He did that overwhelmingly successfully. And in fact, he started with a field of 17 and he has led every -- in every part of the country, he's won states in every part of the country. He's the only one.

PAUL: But he's certainly different than the candidates that you've worked with in the past. And do you argue that the presidential tone and the presidential atmosphere that we as a public are used to and the respect maybe that is given is -- it feels absent at times.

MANAFORT: Well, every presidential campaign is different. And Donald Trump is a true outsider at a time when the American people are fed up with Washington. They're fed up with gridlock. They're fed up with being told one thing and then their leaders doing another thing. They want a leader who says what he believes and when they vote for him will do what he believes and he said he would do. And that's Donald Trump. That's why he's winning.

PAUL: And Mr. Manafort, just to let our viewers here know, you're looking at live pictures of Donald Trump as he is there in Waterbury, Connecticut, also I believe getting some live pictures of Ted Cruz. But, Mr. Manafort, you're going to stay with us. Thank you very much for clarifying what some of these comments that we've been hearing about this week mean, that Donald Trump isn't necessarily going to change his tone but he's evolving. We'll talk about that more on the other side of the break. And he's going to stay with us because CNN also is just getting word that Donald Trump has dropped his dispute of Colorado's delegate sweep by Ted Cruz. We'll ask about that. But let's listen here to Trump.

TRUMP: All over the country it's this kind of response. And I want to thank build a wall. We'll build a wall. Don't worry. I promise.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: I promise we will build a wall. If there's ever a second term, you'll say, man, he got that wall built fast. We're going to put him up.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: So we'll see. We'll build the wall. They love the wall. I love the wall, too. We need it. It's not like love. It's like we need it.

I want to thank the fire marshal and his folks. They've been incredible. There are tremendous, thousands of people outside trying to get in. And they're keeping exits open, they've got them covered, and everything else. I did say what's to burn? We got a concrete floor, right? But the fire marshal was fantastic. I want to thank him very much. Instead of people walking away, they got them in. And I appreciate it.

Trump for truth. You better believe it.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: So Waterbury, the other candidates doesn't even come up to Connecticut and campaign. I've loved Connecticut, I lived in Connecticut.

(APPLAUSE)

[10:25:04] TRUMP: I love Connecticut. I actually lived here for a long time. It's a great place. I'll come back maybe someday if I can ever slow down a little bit. But I know it very well. And I also know the problems. Oh, how did you lose General Electric? You can't do that. Fellas, how did you do this? PAUL: Donald Trump there speaking to a lively crowd in Waterbury,

Connecticut. We're going to continue to listen to this and have more with his convention manager Paul Manafort on the other side of the break. Stay close.

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PAUL: You are looking at dueling rallies, live pictures here of Donald Trump in Connecticut on the left-hand side of your screen obviously. On the right we have Ted Cruz in Pennsylvania as that fight for the GOP primary delegates, numbers, votes, all of it in full swing this morning. And we're also back with Paul Manafort, the convention manager for the Donald Trump campaign. Thank you so much for sticking around, Mr. Manafort. A Colorado delegate named Guy Short told CNN that you said Trump is dropping his dispute of Ted Cruz's delegate count in that state. Is that true?

MANAFORT: That's not quite true. He had asked me what the situation was in Colorado. I told him Mr. Trump's position is he thought the Colorado situation was terrible because it cut the voters out.

[10:30:00] The voters did not participate in the process in Colorado. And then when the convention was held there were a number of violations that were reported to us and that were investigated. And if that investigation shows that the facts are as we were told they are, then we will be filing a formal challenge to the Republican Convention. What I told the individual who asked me what the status was, I said we're investigating the situation. He said, well, will you drop the case? I said if the case -- the fact finding doesn't allow us to present a case that we think is one that we should be heard, but then we would consider it. But even then we may still file it because the reality is that Donald Trump is very upset about the fact that voters were cut out of the process in Colorado, and he is upset with the tactics that were used to stronghold the delegates.

PAUL: Paul Manafort, thank you so much for taking the time to do this, we appreciate it.

MANAFORT: Thank you.

PAUL: Of course.

And we want to take you to Pennsylvania. Senator Ted Cruz holding a campaign stop there. He's heading to Indiana for the rest of the weekend a little bit later. But let's listen to what he's telling to the group of people obviously right now are cheering him on.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This next election is going to come down to three issues -- jobs, freedom, and security. Let's start with jobs. I want to take a minute to talk to all the single moms who are here, who are working two and three part-time jobs, who have seen your hours forcibly reduced to 28, 29 hours a week because Obamacare kicks in at 30 hours a week.

(BOOS) CRUZ: I want to talk to the truck drivers, all the plumbers and mechanics, all the steel workers and union members, all the men and women with callouses on your hands who have seen wages stagnating year after year. The cost of living keeps going up, yet somehow your paycheck doesn't seem to keep pace.

I want to talk to all the young people who are coming out of school with student loans up to their eyeballs, scared. Can I get a job? What's my future hold? And, you know, the mainstream media, they try to tell us this is the new normal. This is as good as it gets. Well, as the people of Pennsylvania know, that is an utter lie.

(APPLAUSE)

PAUL: Again, Ted Cruz there addressing some of the electorate in Pennsylvania ahead of super Tuesday. What will we see in Pennsylvania, Maryland, Connecticut, Rhode Island all going to the polls. We're going to be back with more of this in just a moment.

Also the growing tributes for Prince outside his Minnesota home. Victor Blackwell is there live. We'll take you there in a moment.

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PAUL: We all wake up and we're still having these moments of is it real? In fact I saw somebody -- Victor Blackwell is live in Minnesota right now outside Paisley Park, and all the people that are gathering to honor Prince and his life here in the midst of this investigation into his death. And, Victor, I think it's just hard to absorb the fact that he's no longer here, that he's not writing music, although we know that there's this vault of music that perhaps somebody sometime at some point will release and we'll hear.

But I have a little secret for our viewers, a little tidbit to tell them. Victor has been very honest with me that if he got a chance to go listen to Prince, he would leave me stranded here by myself at the desk and he would just walk away and he would go find Prince.

BLACKWELL: I would get up in the middle of a sentence and go to the Prince concert.

(LAUGHTER)

PAUL: And I have to say, I agree with you.

BLACKWELL: Yes. I'm sure you understand that when I planned my vacation, and it was just a few days before I was leaving, and then it was announced Prince was coming to perform in Atlanta, I was quite disappointed. And now knowing that would have been his last concert, we've had many people on our air who attended that concert, a very special moment. He sat down just with a piano and a microphone, two shows there in Atlanta, and sang for 80 minutes each.

And some of the people who are coming here undoubtedly remember those epic concerts back in the 80s. You think about that Purple Rain tour and that iconic image of Prince and the Revolution opening the show with "Let's Go Crazy."

There are fans here, about 100 now outside of Paisley Park, sharing stories. And it's surprisingly quiet here. You'd expect to hear more music, more singing. But I think people here are just coming to either see what has grown here, this memorial outside where Prince performed, the place where Prince worked, the place where Prince lived, Paisley Park. We're told by the mayor of this city that the city is in conversation with the family of Prince to determine if this will become a museum, what to do now with the facility. In addition to the facility, those tours.

Many people remember the award show performances, those who never saw him in person or came here to Minnesota. And you'll remember maybe this one, when Prince performed with Beyonce for the Grammy Awards in 2004. I mean, this was a performance that was iconic, and Beyonce fans call it legendary. I spoke to Beyonce's father Matthew Knowles earlier this morning. And he said Prince was a gentleman and team player. Watch a portion of that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATHEW KNOWLES: He had a passion for excellence. And he asked that of his entire team. Beyonce learned a lot from that performance in 2004, and you can see that even today in the way that she approaches her tours. You know, Prince did 39 studio albums, he did 28 tours. So his body of work is truly iconic. And Prince was such a gentleman. And he was really concerned to make sure as a young artist that she had the opportunity to present herself because she got to do "Crazy in Love." And he didn't have to do that. He could have said I'm Prince, we're doing my songs. But he didn't. He truly was a team player for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: So iconic performances, very grand memory and then small memories. We're hearing from friends who were inside Paisley Park and saw some of the things many of us have never seen and stories we've never heard.

[10:40:00] We'll continue our coverage from Minnesota, and of course all the political stories of the day. We'll take a quick break and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: Three minutes past the hour right now. Senator Bernie Sanders recharged, back on the campaign trail today, and not backing down from his attacks on Hillary Clinton. The two Democrats are crisscrossing the northeast today ahead of Tuesday's primaries. And 384 delegates up for grabs as voters in five states head to the polls. The big prize here is Pennsylvania.

And after winning in New York, Hillary Clinton is dialing back a bit it seems on the attacks on her Democratic rival and rather focusing on GOP frontrunner Donald Trump's rhetoric on the campaign trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It isn't really about me. I'm not going to respond to what he says about me. I'm going to respond to what he has said about women in general. I'm going to respond to what he has said about immigrants.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: Let's talk to CNN political commentator and "New York Times" columnist Charles Blow. Charles, thank you for being with us. I want to start talking about Bernie Sanders. When we look at the map here of Tuesday's contest, do you see any pockets where Bernie can make some significant headway?

CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Actually, the opposite is true. If you look at the poll of polls, Clinton has double-digit leads in Pennsylvania, in Maryland, Connecticut.

[10:45:01] She even has leads in, you know, the smaller states, Rhode Island, but they don't have as much polling as Pennsylvania and Maryland and Connecticut, however. But, you know, unless all these polls are wrong --

PAUL: Which it could happen. They could be wrong. We've seen that.

BLOW: I always condition things that way. Unless they're all wrong, which they could be, I don't see how that works. I don't see how it happens.

And also the big states here are closed primary states, which do not allow independents to vote, which does not bode well for Bernie who has about a quarter to a third of his supporters in some of the states have been independents when they've had open primaries. These are not caucus states, which he has done particularly well in. These are primaries. So it doesn't look good for him.

PAUL: The Sanders campaign manager says that they're working to flip super delegates. But when you look at this, I know you even wrote in the "New York Times" that it's a bad idea, but Hillary Clinton, she has more votes, she has more pledged. What do they think -- how do they think they're going to get a super delegate to shift that allegiance?

BLOW: Well, specifically what Weaver said, and Sanders has not said this himself, but Sanders has made the case where in states where he has in fact won, the super delegates should give him a shot, should give consideration to supporting him, which I think is kind of fair.

Weaver was making a different argument, which was if after June 7th, after all of the contests are finished, if Hillary Clinton still has more pledged delegates, has won more states, has the higher number of popular vote, that they would still try to convince the super delegates to overturn the will of the people. That is an extraordinary kind of claim or ambition from a candidate and from a campaign that has run as an anti-establishment campaign, because you're then asking the establishment, which is what the super delegates are, make no mistake about it, to overturn the will of the people. It kind of eats away at the very virtue of what makes Bernie Sanders and his campaign attractive in the first place.

PAUL: Charles Blow, I'm so sorry that we've run out of time. Thank you for being with us.

BLOW: You're welcome.

PAUL: OK. And of course we're going to talk more politics throughout the day. But still to come, the memories of Prince, they just keep coming as fans -- take a look at this, live pictures here in from of Paisley Park, fans flocking to his memorial there.

I want you to meet this week's CNN Hero, an 86-year-old man who turned his horse farm into oasis to help heal children with disabilities. Take a look here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRY SWIMMER, CNN HERO: Horses are very special animals. People just don't realize it.

What do you say now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Walk on.

SWIMMER: That's my girl.

We had a child on a horse who had a seizure and that horse stopped dead in his tracks. When nobody else noticed it, the horse caught it first.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL: For more on this story, go to CNNHeroes.com and then click on all of the other this year's top 10 and vote for your favorite to become CNN hero of the year.

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[10:52:22] BLACKWELL: I'm Victor Blackwell outside Paisley, the home in Minnesota where Prince both lived and, on Thursday, died. We know in his musical choices and always his changing fashion and appearance, Prince defied gender labels. He transcended race. Oftentimes that's not easy to do in this country and in the entertainment industry.

Let's talk about that with my next guest. W. Kamau Bell, he joins me now. He is the host of CNN's new original series "United Shades of America." Kamau, first, when we talk about transcending race, we look back to the 1980s, Michael Jackson gets a lot of the credit for integrating MTV, but Prince's music also, those songs were undeniable, and he was part of that movement as well.

W. KAMAU BELL, CNN HOST, UNITED SHADES OF AMERICA: I think Prince made himself available to everybody no matter their race, gender, or ethnicity, while at the same time I think he still maintained his identity as a black man. And I think that's why it was such an important figure for black people, that you can be what you want to be, you can live your blackness however you want to live it. And I think that's why he affects everybody, especially black people.

PAUL: So let's look ahead to your show that premieres this weekend, first episode coming out of the box with the KKK. Tell me about the choice to start with that and that experience.

BELL: Well, the whole idea about the show is me doing things that make me uncomfortable and things I shouldn't do. And in America if you're a black person and you want to make yourself uncomfortable, then you go talk to the Ku Klux Klan. And also it's a way to let people know that the Ku Klux Klan is still out there. People think they're a relic of past, but they are still out there, and during the Obama era, their numbers have actually increased.

BLACKWELL: So what did you find that surprised you. So many people think they know what they're going to find when they meet I guess, the KKK. What did you find that you didn't expect?

BELL: I guess I found that if you can sit down with somebody long enough and talk to somebody long enough, sometimes, not all the time, even if you disagree completely philosophically, you can actually leave room for each other's humanity. It didn't happen with all of them, but with some of them I think at the end of the day they went home and said I think I might like a black guy now. So that's the beginning of the change.

BLACKWELL: That should be a t-shirt. W. Kamau Bell, thanks so much for being with us. An unexpected conversation about race with eh Ku Klux Klan, don't miss the premiere of "The United Shades of America" Sunday night right here on CNN at 10:00 p.m. eastern.

And I'm going to take a bit of license here and call for my favorite Prince song, Christi.

[10:55:01] We have the video, if we just play it under as we leave our coverage here for this hour. Prince's "Adore." I think it is by far the best Prince song, although I'm sure that we would have a bit of a conversation out here with the more than hundred fans that have come here. Christi, what's yours?

PAUL: Mine is still "Let's Go Crazy." I can't help it. It's just one of those that when you hear it, you can't help but move. They're playing this instead of "Adore." I'm sorry. We'll get you "Adore" later.

BLACKWELL: That's all right.

PAUL: Thank you, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Thank you.

PAUL: And thank you so much. Much more ahead in the next hours of CNN's Newsroom. Fredricka Whitfield is going to walk you through the afternoon. Stay close. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)