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Top Aide: Trump "Evolving" After Playing A Part; Sheriff: No Reason To Believe Prince's Death Was A Suicide; Tributes Pour In As Fans, Celebs Remember Prince; Latest from the Campaign Trail; Young Girl Dies of Injuries in Delaware High School Brawl; Previewing New CNN Show. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired April 23, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:03] VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: We'll tell you more about what's happening here and the investigation as to how he died, Fred, we'll be back with you in a moment.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thanks so much, Victor. We'll check back with you. Appreciate it.

All right, in the meantime also new into CNN, President Obama playing a round of golf in England with British Prime Minister David Cameron. This is his final visit to England as president. It is a long goodbye, is it not?

Earlier the president spoke to a town hall with about 500 young British professionals and students and he told them change is possible, but it takes time. And he admitted he still has unfinished business of his own to pass on to his successor. Here is exactly what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I look at a score card at the end, and I think that I have been true to myself during this process. You know, I don't -- sometimes I look back at what I said, when I was running for office, and what I'm saying today, and they match up. Change takes time. An oftentimes what you start has to then be picked up by your successors, or the next generation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Athena Jones is traveling with the president and joins us now from London. So Athena, did he get any more specific about some of the issues that are unfinished that he wants to tackle?

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fred. Well, he talked about several issues saying the fight continues on several fronts, criminal justice reform, poverty, discrimination, several other issues, including climate change.

These are issues where the fight must continue. You can't take care of these issues in just a few years or even just in a generation. It was interesting to hear the president say that he has been true to himself.

Whether purposefully or not, it's a reference in a way to the famous character from Shakespeare's "Hamlet," Polonius, who talks about how should think own self be true. And he made that reference on the day he visited the Shakespeare's Globe Theater where many of Shakespeare's original plays were performed.

This on the day that the 400 anniversary of the death. So that was an interesting line he used whether on purpose or not there -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: And he was asked by an audience, remember the president was, what he feels about his legacy. Tell us a little bit more about how he explained.

JONES: Well, first he gave a pretty long answer, but I want to play for you what he said right off the top of that answer. Go ahead and play that, and we'll talk about it coming off.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT OBAMA: When you are in the job, you are not thinking on a day-to-day basis about your legacy, you are thinking about how do I get done what I'm trying to get done right now? And I don't think that I'll have a good sense of my legacy until 10 years from now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: So he says he doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about his legacy, but then, Fred, he went on to speak for several minutes about the things that he's proud of.

He talked about being proud of Affordable Care Act so giving millions more Americans access to affordable healthcare, it's seen as his biggest domestic achievement.

He talked about saving the global economy from another depression. You remember when he came in the office in 2009 the economy was in crisis, and he also talked about the Iran nuclear deal. So he's clearly giving his legacy a little bit of thought -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: Yes, I'm sure a little bit. All right. Thank you so much Athena Jones in London. Appreciate it.

All right, his the words rigged, corrupt unfair after months of bashing the Republican nomination process, Donald Trump is pivoting to woo the establishment elders that he has denounced since day one.

A newly hired campaign aide told RNC leaders that they can soon expect a more toned back and a more presidential Trump. That aide, Paul Manafort, spoke to CNN this morning where he clarified that campaign still intends to let Trump be Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL MANAFORT, SENIOR ADVISER, DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Mr. Trump next week will be still speaking about how he's going to build a wall. He's talking about how he's still going to end illegal immigration, how he's still going to end the unfair trade deals.

Nowhere was I talking about there being a different Donald Trump. What I was talking about was there will be in a different environment where different parts of the message would be presented in a way that was different from a campaign rally.

So there would be no reason to change who is the man who has been probably the most effective modern communicator in politics certainly since Ronald Reagan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, Manafort also -- he has been called sort of a delegate guru. It seems as though -- he is really driving the train right now as it pertains to how we are seeing Trump and how Trump is making himself available and/or not, have you noticed?

OK, in the meantime here in Bridgeport, Connecticut, live pictures right now, Donald Trump will be making his way there after being in Waterbury, Connecticut earlier.

Jason Carroll is at that rally, that location, on what will soon be the appearance of Donald Trump there, Jason.

[12:05:08]So is there a particular difference in what we are seeing and hearing from Donald Trump or at least what is the expectation there when you have Manafort saying, you know, he's changing, and then Donald Trump himself is saying you are going to see a more precedential me. Which Donald Trump is showing up today?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it's going to be the same Donald Trump showing up today that we saw yesterday, the day before, the week before and the month before, Fredricka. I mean, at least what we saw in Waterbury is any indication we saw and heard some familiar things we've heard before.

The name calling was there, the Lying Ted Cruz, the crooked Hillary references were there. They are talking about the rigged system. That was there too.

But we also heard something new in a way. As you know, there has been much talk about Trump being more presidential, his wife has said it. His daughter has said can't you be more presidential.

People within his own party have expressed this need for him to be more presidential. Well, Trump addressed that in Waterbury, Connecticut for the first time in a way by making fun of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I sort of don't like toning it down. I'm going to talk about that in a second because it's interesting. Isn't it nice that I'm not one of these teleprompter guys where you come in?

First of all, if I was, I would have an audience of about three people here in the front instead of -- this is the biggest crowd in the history of the school.

When I'm in a room talking, when I'm out here talking to you people I've got to be different. I can say basically the same thing. So Paul said no, he's different when he's in a room, and then he goes out and speaks different. If he gives policy that's different. With smart people you act differently.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: So you've got people like Paul Manafort, who are privately working behind the scenes, telling folks that this is a candidate and a campaign that is evolving. That Trump has a different way privately than he does publicly.

But as you heard right there when it comes how Trump addresses people, like we've got in this room here in Bridgeport, expect him to be just the way we have seen before, Trump.

WHITFIELD: Thanks for the warning. Jason Carroll, thanks so much in Bridgeport, Connecticut. We'll check back with you, of course.

All right. In the meantime, fans from near and far have flocked to Paisley Park to pay their respects to the music legend known as Prince. We are live on the ground right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:10:56]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I love Prince because he put out great music and he was a great performer. I didn't know him well. He came to perform at the White House last year and was extraordinary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: President Obama there taking a moment to praise and remember Prince, ahead of a meeting with the British prime minister in London yesterday. The president there said that he liked Prince because he was a great performer and he put out great music.

We are hearing that from here outside of Prince's home Paisley Park in Minnesota, but they are also saying that he was a philanthropist, that he took on social issues, and made them his own.

We are hearing and seeing a lot of that. I'm Victor Blackwell here in Chanhassen, Minnesota, the home of Prince. Paisley Park was not just a home, but it was a performance base, it was a recording studio.

There is this vault that is inside with hours and hours of unreleased music. I mean, the impact here is being magnified and celebrated not just here in Minnesota, but around the world. Memorials growing by the hour. Raining purple here at Prince's home, you can see the pictures here, the purple balloons and the notes and the cards, and candles. A sign that has been made, original art.

The death of a music icon still shocking so many people here. We have learned about this investigation, it's ongoing. The very early stages, but here is what the sheriff is telling us. No signs of trauma. No evidence of a suicide being found on Prince's body.

The autopsy has been completed. Prince's body has been turned over to his family. And police, of course, are still searching for clues, trying to piece together his final days and vowing to in the sheriff's words leave no stone unturned.

And to let the world know exactly what happened, but understand that that may take days, maybe even weeks. Investigators revealing the Grammy award winning artist was last seen here at his estate around 8:00 p.m. Wednesday night.

He was alone, they say, as he often was, hidden away in this huge estate. And understand that it may not really translate through the lens, but this compound is huge.

Prince's home, Paisley Park was his safe haven. Our Jean Casarez has an inside look at the purple one, his retreat with the architect who designed it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From the outside, Paisley Park looks like any large commercial building, but inside the creative genius and mysterious side of music icon, Prince, is on full display.

BRET THOENY, PAISLEY PARK ARCHITECT: Prince wanted to have a place where he could do all his music and make films, and do his tour rehearsals, and to dance, choreography, and everything under one roof, which is back 25 years ago was quite progressive.

CASAREZ: Designed by a Los Angeles architect, Bret Thoeny, the $10 million, 65,000 square-foot complex is a curiosity to many. Thoeny says it took the better part of three years from conception to completion in 1987. Walking through the front door transcends into Prince's reality.

THOENY: When you come to Paisley Park, you come into the lobby with a pyramid, the two-storey over your head and as I recall, it is cold. And you have another set of doors that you go through and then you would get warm.

CASAREZ: The first floor houses production facilities including state of the art recording studios, a sound stage, and massive rehearsal hall. Prince wanted no windows in the downstairs performance areas creating a timeless environment where he could work without knowing when night became day.

The second floor designed with windows includes executive offices, as well as Prince's personal haven.

THOENY: It could be a stay over where he was in the studio late, which he always was, he could just crash for a few hours and get back in the studio.

CASAREZ: And as for a secret vault in the building, yes, there is, Prince requested one.

[12:15:01]THOENY: We did a vault for Prince. He wanted a place to keep his master recordings, but at the time he was -- it was very important to keep this a secret.

CASAREZ: He wasn't just secretive about the vault but about the entire property. A longtime friend of Prince tells CNN he didn't like people taking pictures inside. Prince named his complex Paisley Park, Thoeny, says after his love of Prince design and a song he recorded by the same name released in 1985. Thoeny says he will never forget, despite his fear of heights Prince bringing him up on the massive roof to see the view.

THOENY: You can see the lakes and the landscape. It was a moment that was important for him to go up there.

CASAREZ: Jean Casarez, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: I spoke with the mayor of this city earlier today, and he said the city is now in talks with Prince's family to determine what will happen to Paisley Park? Will it become a museum? Will this stay close?

That's a discussion is happening now and a decision will come in the weeks and months ahead. But right now hundreds of people are gathering here outside of Paisley Park.

Some of them fans, admirers, some of them just neighbors who remember this, the most famous person in Chanhassen. And a very philanthropic man we have learned as well. We will have much more on Prince's legacy and the investigation live from Paisley Park. So stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:20]

(VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: The cast of the Broadway musical the "Color Purple" honoring the legendary Prince in one of the best ways possible, Jennifer Hudson right there leading the way. Incredible. That's Purple Rain.

So Prince's death sent shockwaves around the world. So many of us fans adored him, his music his style, image, and so many of us gushed purple for the people in his inner circle. And among them in recent years, Misty Copeland invited five friends to be in his circle of creative genius, a professional ballerina that caught Prince's eye.

She performed with him on his tour in 2010 overseas and she told me in 2014 what it was like working with Prince.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MISTY COPELAND: Something definitely happened during that experience. Dancers were told what to do from the moment we step into that first ballet class. You don't speak, to be given the opportunity it was just me on a plane going to meet Prince in France, and I got there and I said what am I doing? What do you want me to do? And he said whatever you want. And it was like scary at first that freedom that was kind of the start of like pushing myself as an individual.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And isn't it a common thread we are hearing from a lot of people that worked with him that he wanted to show case other people's talent as well? And in fact, Prince also had was struck by people who really knew their stuff.

He would even sometimes hand pick or reach out to certain journalists, even those who were not necessarily performers on stage, he really did respect the crafted word.

And among them Edna Gundersen. She was the lead music writer for "USA Today" for decades and she recalled one of her most memorable moments of Prince on her Facebook page.

Writing this, quote, "After breath taking tour opener in Minneapolis, I watched him play before a crowd of maybe 100. Prince was giving his all at 2:00 a.m. and the guy next to me was thoroughly enthralled. It was Miles Davis."

Let's bring in Edna Gundersen is a music journalist. She is in New Orleans. She is on the phone with us at the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Fest right now.

So Edna, you know, before I talk to you about your personal loss because you did get to know him so well. Tell me what it has been like there in New Orleans, the sea of musicians and people who just love music and the performing arts.

How has it shaped people's mood, what they are performing, what they are saying and doing there?

EDNA GUNDERSEN, MUSIC JOURNALIST (via telephone): Well, you know, it's been what everyone has been talking about, it just, it sort of cast a pall in a way over the first day of jazz fest. But at the same time it's been kind of a celebration of Prince and his legacy.

Janelle Monet dedicated her entire set to Prince. Government Mule Band, who wouldn't expect to have any ties to Prince did a version of "When Doves Cry." Everybody had some, you know, something to say about Prince.

And of course, everyone's talking about it. It's just been a body slam. It was the first news I heard when I got off the plane. And I was just absolutely shocked and staggered. It was so unexpected and I think that's just been resonating around the world.

WHITFIELD: Yes, I think everyone, was -- it's like being hit in the gut. I tweeted out as soon as I heard about it, too, that I was just crushed. There wasn't another word I had for it. And I saw that you used a very similar expression in your Facebook page.

So Edna, you know, you were an incredible writer and the music industry knows you. Artists love talking to you. They invite you into their circle. But it's another thing to get a note, to get a phone call from Prince, when and how did this start that he would reach out to you in the many ways that he would?

GUNDERSEN: Well, I interviewed him the first time I think was 1991. It was really terrifying because he -- I went to Paisley Park, and it was a non-interview. I was not allowed to bring a tape recorder. I was not allowed to use a notebook and I was not allowed to ask direct questions.

[12:25:07]So, you know, an absolute impossible sort of challenge. But I just tried to, you know, kind of chat with him and then there was one point where he said you are not interviewing me, are you?

And you know, I made frequent dashes to the bathroom to jot down things that he said. And somehow we had -- I, you know, managed to pull a story out of it, and he seemed pleased with it.

And from there, I was able to interview him several more times and then I got invited to the parties that he had and the after concert performances and things like that.

I think he's just very private mysterious guy. It's a mystique that he deliberately cultivates. He knows it works. He knows it adds to his allure, but I don't know. I think he's one of the greatest artists of our time.

And he's absolutely irreplaceable and I'm sure that showed in many of the reviews I wrote. And that may have added to his trust of me. I don't know.

Obviously working for publications, but I feel really blessed that I was able to get that kind of access. I remember one -- you know, one of the first trips I made to Paisley Park, and I was interviewing him.

There was a British film crew there and they were not allowed to see Prince at all or to talk to anyone on his staff. They were just going to do a little piece on the complex itself.

And they were suddenly ordered to stop filming, turn the cameras off, and they said why, and they said, well, an employee had been caught on film. And they said no, they hadn't shot anybody. It turned out that the company cat had wandered into the plane, you know, so there was this huge outcry. I mean, this is -- there were just so many strange rules and so much secrecy about the place.

But underneath all that, this was one of the warmest, most gracious people I've ever known. I mean, he had such wonderful -- you know, manners and charm, and he was a really nice person. You know, under all that kind of eccentric personality that you would see in many ways.

WHITFIELD: And under scoring that point of gracious, I love that you just recently just happened upon a handwritten note that he had sent you. So you think of, well, those of us who haven't met Prince you think of him and you envision his style. What did a note from Prince look like? Was it -- was it cursive, was it fancy was it on some incredible stationery or what did that note look like?

GUNDERSEN: I don't think that it was on stationery, I think it was on a plain sheet of people and he had FedEx it, I forgotten all about this, and I ran across it cleaning out old files. And it was in purple ink, and it had his, you know, with the way he sort of invent, texting, with the shorthand, the number four for four, and things like that.

And it just, it was little -- it kind of -- I think it was sort of a thank you note for coming out and that I should come back to Paisley Park soon and that sort of thing and I thought, who does this? You know, what sort of celebrity takes the time to do that sort of thing?

It was really sweet, but I don't think I was anyone special. He was incredibly thoughtful to people in the music industry, and to his peers, and, you know, to his audiences.

WHITFIELD: Wow. You are under selling yourself, Edna. You definitely are more than special and he noticed that, and so many in the industry do too. I do, too, as a good friend. Edna Gundersen, thank you so much for being with us. Enjoy the New Orleans jazz fest.

And thank you so much for sharing your very personal and intimate moments and experiences with a very great, great artist. Thanks so much.

GUNDERSEN: Thanks for having me, friend.

WHITFIELD: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:32:55] WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. On the road to the White House, Bernie Sanders is in Baltimore.

Right now, let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE SANDERS, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: ... a death sentence. Now, people don't know this thing, well, you're poor, that's not good. You don't have a fancy T.V., you don't go out to eat. That's not the issue.

If you are born in Baltimore's poorest neighborhood, your life expectancy is almost 20 years shorter than if you were born in its wealthiest neighborhoods.

Fifteen neighborhoods in Baltimore have lower life expectancies than North Korea.

Two of them have a higher infant mortality rate than the Westbank in Palestine.

Baltimore teenagers between the ages of 15 and 19 face poorer health conditions in a worst economic outlook than those in distressed cities in Nigeria, India, China and South Africa. We are talking about the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, Bernie Sanders and his message to Baltimoreans there, just a few days away from the big day of primary races, five of them on Tuesday.

Let's bring in right now Sanders supporter and political strategist, Jonathan Tasini. He challenged Hillary Clinton in a primary contest for his senate seat in New York in 2006. And he is the author of the book The Essential Bernie Sanders and his Vision for America.

Also with me is Marc Lamont Hill, a CNN political commentator and professor at Moore House College.

All right, good to see both of you gentlemen.

JONATHAN TASINI, SANDERS SUPPORTER: Hey, good to see you.

WHITFIELD: All right, so Jonathan you first. So Bernie Sanders message, you know, how is he shaping his message for choose me, Bernie Sanders, and at the same time here is my message to keep the Democratic Party united as we approach a general election, just in case I don't get the nomination?

[12:35:07] TASINI: Well, they're both very good questions, Fredericka.

The first one is, you know, in some way everything that Bernie just said in the clip that led into this segment is very much what he's been talking about from the very beginning of the campaign of poverty, inequality, billionaires dominating the political process, the divide between rich and poor. It's the great thing I think about Bernie Sanders that he's a man of principle. He's authentic in a way I never met a politician in my life. I so was proud to vote for him in the New York primary. And he's been very consistent about what he said.

And to your second point, you know, I think there's been a little, in my opinion, too much made of this back and forth and friction and debate between the Secretary Clinton, Bernie Sanders in the primary. WHITFIELD: Well, what do you mean? I mean, aren't they the ones keeping it alive.

TASINI: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what I meant was that in 2008, this was to your point about the general election in the event that Bernie is not the nominee, I still think he has a path. But let's take that as a assumption.

In 2008, Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton had a very, very sharp contested primary. Everybody eventually came together because they knew that a worse scenario would be a Republican dominating or being elected to the White House. And I think that the two words Donald Trump are -- will animate the Democratic Party, animate people after the convention because the notion that we would have a misogynous racist pathological liar as president is unacceptable to every Democrat that I know.

WHITFIELD: All right. So Marc, what are you hearing and what are you feeling in terms of whether there will be this cohesion within the Democratic Party? I mean, you've got a Washington Post article today which talks about, you know, the -- how it's very unsettled right now particularly because of this tension between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders has created such that it doesn't appear to be a united party regardless of who becomes the nomination. Is that one of the greatest worries of the party right now?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it's a legitimate concern as it should always be a concern. But every election cycle we see that there was a time where Reagan/Bush was seen as such a vicious battle, that, you know, they could never come together.

And I think, it worked out OK with them for about 12 years. You know, we said that Clinton, Obama wouldn't work out that it was too ugly, too vicious, too contested. And ultimately Hillary endorsed him and ultimately gave a very compelling speech at the convention.

I don't think that this will long-term be an issue. If there's an issue it's not than to those two people endorsing each together. It's not those two coming together ultimately playing nice. I think the concern is that when you have a populist candidate like Bernie Sanders, do his staunchest supporters stay home. They are not going to vote for Trump. I agree with you. They're not going to vote for racist misogynous. They may stay home. They may vote for a third party. That's the concern that Democrats have to ask.

And Republicans have the same concern, that if Donald Trump doesn't win the nomination, or somehow if he somehow doesn't feel satisfied, do his staunchest supporters vote for a third party candidate, even if it's Trump himself, or do they stay the party line.

It's even more complicated with Bernie who caucuses with Democrats. But isn't be guiding (ph) while Democrats historically. That's the concern of some people inside the party.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jonathan, Marc, thank you. Appreciate it.

HILL: Absolutely.

TASINI: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, there are a lot of unanswered questions now in the death surrounding a Delaware High School honor roll student.

A 16-year-old girl died after a fight in a school bathroom.

[12:38:38] We'll talk to our legal experts about why no one has been arrested yet, and if a weapon may have been involved.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right, welcome back. Loved ones want to know why a 16- year-old honor roll student died after a brawl in a high school bathroom.

Friends of Joyner-Francis say, she was special and had a bright future ahead of her.

They gathered for a vigil at her school in Wilmington Delaware.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was very special to a lot of people, not only to me but to a lot of people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was only 16. She really didn't deserve this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Officials say there was an altercation, a fight, that initially started between two people and then others may have joined in ganging up on one person.

Well, authorities say Amy was badly injured and transported to a local hospital by helicopter where she then died.

Now, two students are being questioned by Wilmington Police, but no charges have yet been filed.

Let's discuss all of this with our legal guys. Avery Friedman, a Civil Rights Attorney and Law Professor in Cleveland, good to see you and Richard Herman, a New York Criminal Defense Attorney and Law Professor joining us from Las Vegas, good to see you as well.

All right, gentlemen, this is such a disturbing story. And we don't know all of the facts. But of what we have learned, we're talking about a fight in a bathroom in a school.

And so Richard, no one has been charged. There were people involved. A little girl, 16-year-old is dead. And there were some initial reports that maybe she hit her head on the bathroom. But aside from all that, or maybe encompassing all of that, then you go into the question of not only might there people, you know, responsible who were part of that fight. But where is the school? Where is security? Where are the witnesses to hearing a fight? This fight couldn't have happened in silent.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It could not have, Fred, and what a tragedy for a 16-year-old young woman. But apparently the investigation is ongoing. We will not know the finality here until the investigation is completed and the autopsy is completed. Because if the blow to the sink is the factor that caused the death, was most likely accidental which would be man's slaughter charges. But they will do a full investigation. They will know exactly what girls were in the bathroom. They'll know what girls were hitting her and beating her. All of those girls will be charged here, Fred, all of them.

The question about the school, there very well maybe school liability here if there was a propensity to have fights in that school, if that area was unsupervised, there's -- but the school could definitely be tagged on this as well.

WHITFIELD: So are those only circumstances in which the school would be held responsible if there was a propensity, if there already had been a pattern of fights. But what if there wasn't a pattern of fighting and this, you know, tragically happened, Avery. And it's sad because, you know, if there are charges involved with these other, you know, young ladies, I mean, it's tragic because we've got these high school kids whose lives are also ruined now, because of a friend who died and because they will, you know, have to pay the price.

[12:45:16] AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, that's exactly right, Fredricka. But the issue of foreseeability, whether there was prior violence that the school knew or should have known about, I think doesn't really tell the real story here, and it comes from the real story from a classmate named Nik Stryminski.

And you see in Nik's case, Nik was about to get into a fight and it was Amy that intervened with the fighters and explained to them why violence wasn't the way to go. That was a reputation. That's the extraordinary story about this beautiful young woman.

And it may very well be this past Thursday morning that heroically and fearlessly. Amy went and try to intervene in another fight trying to break up the violence in the girl's restroom. And that's what needs to be tracked. We're going to learn about the other young people that were involved in this violence. I think they will be in accord. I'm in agreement with that.

But the question about school liability, I think is very, very questionable, unless some very important facts surface in the future.

WHITFIELD: And then Richard, how unusual is it that -- and I realize there has to be a determination of the types of charges if indeed there are charges, because of like you just saying, you both just brightly painted the picture of culpability and what, you know, how this death occurred. But in examples like this, don't -- aren't people still arrested immediately following because of their involvement and charges are determined later?

HERMAN: I think, Fred, what's happening is they're doing the investigation to determine exactly who was in the bathroom with her, who did lay a hand on her, because probably conflicting stories, people are probably clamming up and aren't telling the truth.

So they have to have credible evidence here. They have to have something to be confident of who the people were that were hitting her. But again, Fred, it's going to focus in on whether these girls that were in the fight, did they plan this? Did they put postings on social media or text their friends and say, "We're going to beat her in the morning? Or did it just have to do was the hitting on the sink tracks, what happened accidental. That's the issue here, Fred. That's where it's coming to.

WHITFIELD: And Avery, last word.

FRIEDMAN: Well, that's the criminal issue. The greater issue is the unspeakable loss of this beautiful young woman, whether there's school liability, whether anyone will ever be accountable, that remains to be seen, and we'll be continuing to monitor this.

WHITFIELD: Yeah, you said it is unspeakable because it's so outrageous, it's just hard to come up with the words, you know, to describe what happened, try to understand how this happened, and the many questions that follow. It's just so disturbing.

All right, Richard, Avery, thanks so much, gentlemen, good to see you as always.

All right, coming up, he is taking a look at the KKK in rather unusual way, by being up front and in their face, a look at CNN's "United Shades of America" next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMAU BELL, CNN HOST, UNITED SHADES OF AMERICA: All right. We -- as I'm sure you know has been a group associated with violence. You're just talking to me and you, and I hope my black presence isn't disturbing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's, OK.

[12:48:28] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we're just -- we're different people, you know. And we come from different worlds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. CNN's brand new original series "United Shades of America" is having those awkward conversations that no one really wants to have. And the first episode host, Kamau Bell is stepping out of his comfort zone and getting personal with the KKK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BELL: This guy said he was coming alone. Why did i believe him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then, I'm gonna let you know, I'm the Imperial Wizard of the International Keystone Knights of the Klu Klux Klan. BELL: Don't you think that by wearing the same robes that you're -- that it's hard to separate those two different clans? Like ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have an opportunity to wear a Klansman's robe. Why? Because I'm white and I believe in the ideals, rituals, and beliefs of the Ku Klux Klan, I was raised that way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, Kamau, now joining me. Hello, Kamau. How are you? Joining us from New York.

Whoa, so many questions. OK. First why ...

BELL: I'm OK. First of all I'm fine. I'm fine.

WHITFIELD: OK, yeah. Fine, I see that. So I don't have to ask -- OK. So why and how?

BELL: I think it's important to have these conversations. I mean, you know, the show is not just about me talking to the clan, but it's always about me talking to people who either I don't understand or don't have a lot of experience with and a way to sort of safely sit down and talk. We make room for each other's humanity when we have -- that's an opportunity to learn about each other.

Like when I talk to the clan a lot of it was me asking them questions about what it is to be in the clan and what they're getting out of it. And they don't get asked that a lot.

Usually, they're in T.V., they said it was, people, it's just a yelling match.

So for me it's about they -- I think some of them learned from me, like, "Oh, this guy is actually a nice guy." And on some level, I think some of them went home and go, "I like a black guy now."

WHITFIELD: Well, wait a minute. OK, so we already know this is nothing to do with liking black people whether they are nice or not.

So I mean, do you feel like confronting members of the clan who are covered up, who are not reveling their faces, you know, are able to teach you something new about what they're really about, or reveal something about whether there's a new level of acceptance because you're standing in front of them?

BELL: I think it's about each of us making room for each other's humanity. I think it's about stepping from behind the stereotypes and the talking points and each of us sitting down and having conversations.

And I'm not going to say it happened for all of them, but with some of them by the end I went to the cross burning and at some of those points, sounds like, we're just people outside talking about how hot it is. And I think that's not a conversation that you would expect to come out of that, if the rhetoric starts both way. And that doesn't mean that I have converted anybody. I'm not trying to convert anybody.

But it does mean like in this country we have lots of different types of people and sometimes we get caught up in our differences and what you think about each other, and how that should affect how other people live. And it shouldn't affect that. You can hate me if you are in the clan, but I should be allowed to live and take advantage of the rights and privileges of this country.

[12:55:02] WHITFIELD: So it pertains to that episode, then what's the impact that you are hoping that episode will make on the viewers, perhaps even on the clan itself?

BELL: Well for me this episode is about the viewers, it's not necessarily about the clan in the episode, it's about a lot of people I've talked to about doing this episode, many people are like, I didn't know the Klu Klux Klan was still a thing.

And I think sometimes we talk about racism in this country. We sort of admit to forget the long tale of racism, the fact that like the clan is one of -- is a part of the sort of becoming together of this country after the Civil War. And that they still exist. And racism was a corrosive thing. And the clan is still here.

And I think some people need to know that.

WHITFIELD: Do you feel like you helped the clan in a way with its recruitment because they were just profiled on your show?

BELL: I doubt that anybody who watches my show who wasn't going to join the clan is going to go, "Hmm, I wasn't thinking about joining the clan but now that I watched the black guy talk about it, I think I should join." I doubt that that's going to happen.

WHITFIELD: All right, Kamau Bell, thanks so much, good to see you. And of course you can watch "United Shades of America" Sunday night 10:00 eastern right here on CNN.

All right, stay with us at CNN we're watching a Trump event in Connecticut in there in Bridge Ford. We'll give you an idea about whether he is the founding or looking more presidential or not.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:00:13] WHITFIELD: All right, hello again everyone. And thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.