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Beyonce's 'Lemonade'; Murder Mystery; Prince Death Investigation; Plotting Against Trump. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 25, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Kasich, we call him one for 41. I thought it was 38.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: He's won one race in 41 states, one, OK, states and islands.

So, I call him now -- I have a new nickname for him -- one for 41. Very soon, it's going to be one for 46 or '7. I watched Cruz this morning, and he's all mixed up, because he's losing so badly.

And when he's under pressure, he is like a basket case. So, he's stuttering and he's stammering. And I watched him. And he's saying, I want jobs and I want the economy and I want this and I want that, all stuff that I have been saying for years. And he's just started to say it. He doesn't know anything about the economy. He doesn't know anything about jobs.

He was a failed senator. He couldn't get anything passed. Nothing. Look at his legislation. He got nothing passed. And now he wants to be -- all he is, is a guy that will go down and stand and filibuster for a day or two, and the other senators all look, when's he getting off the floor, Jim?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: So, how will the strategy between Cruz and Kasich work against Trump?

Let me turn to CNN political director David Chalian.

Good to see you.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Hey, Brooke.

BALDWIN: What a way to start the week with this twist. You're calling it a Hail Mary pass. Why?

CHALIAN: Well, because that's what you do as you near the end of a game and you're losing. Right? I mean, you try to completely alter the trajectory by this long-odds Hail Mary pass. And that's what Cruz and Kasich are doing here. Listen, they have both fully admitted, and the math bears it out, they have no way to win the nomination. This is no longer a race of Donald Trump vs. Ted Cruz vs. John Kasich of who's going to be the nominee. Right now, it is a race of Cruz and Kasich trying to keep Trump from 1,237 before we get to the convention.

That is what the entire Republican race is right now, and I shouldn't just say Cruz and Kasich. It is also the entire never Trump, stop Trump wing of the establishment part of the party, who's dedicated to spending money and trying to prevent Trump from being the nominee.

BALDWIN: Do we know how long this plan has been cooking on the back burner?

CHALIAN: You know, it's a good question.

Remember back, Brooke, about seven-and-a-half weeks ago, right after the first big Super Tuesday. Mitt Romney gave that scathing speech.

BALDWIN: In Utah.

CHALIAN: In Utah, that's right, taking down Donald Trump and trying to provide this very road map. If you recall, he was suggesting that at the time, when Marco Rubio was still in the race, that supporters of Rubio vote for him in Florida, but that supporters of his vote for Kasich in Ohio and try to split up the map.

Then we know that there were other conversations going on since that point between the Cruz and Kasich campaigns. But the Cruz campaign never saw an advantageous deal for them while they were still in the hunt to try to get to that magic number themselves of 1,237.

With the reality that that's not going to happen, the Cruz folks were more inclined to sit around the table and figure out a deal that made sense for them to join Kasich in the strategy.

BALDWIN: So, then, if you're doing the math, then Trump is really only the one who could potentially reach the 1,237 prior to Cleveland, does it make Indiana, May 3, sort of make or break Trump?

CHALIAN: You know, it's hard to pinpoint any one state and say it's make or break.

BALDWIN: OK.

CHALIAN: We all love to do it. It creates a fantastic headline.

And, listen, circle May 3 on the calendar. Indiana is a big deal. There's no doubt about that. But calling it make or break I think misses the point here. I think what it is, is a moment that if Trump wins Indiana, especially now, that he is in a one-on-one race with Cruz. Right? Obviously, Kasich's still name on the ballot.

I'm sure some votes, absentee votes and early votes have already been recorded for him. But now that Kasich is not going to advertise there and his outside groups that support him are not going to advertise there and it's really a Cruz-Trump matchup, if Trump emerges from that victorious, that is going to take all the wind out of the sails of this Cruz effort.

And the money's going to drift away and people are going to start thinking, this isn't achievable to actually take down Donald Trump. But to call it make or break I think is probably a bit too much, because Ted Cruz and his closest advisers really believe this is going to Cleveland and that is now the campaign they're running, the one for the convention floor in Cleveland.

BALDWIN: OK. May 3, circling.

CHALIAN: Circle it.

BALDWIN: Because David Chalian told me to. Thank you very much.

CHALIAN: Sure.

BALDWIN: Topping the hour here, let's chew on this a bit more. Let me bring in CNN's chief political correspondent, Dana Bash, and our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger.

First, let me just get you ladies to react to the reacting of Donald Trump, the words he used today. He was on a tear, saying such total weakness, talking about this collusion, this deal. Pathetic. You know, even down to criticizing how John Kasich was eating his pancakes this morning when he was in Pennsylvania.

[15:05:12]

Gloria Borger, what did you make of all of that?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, I think that in a way this whole Kasich-Cruz deal plays right into Donald Trump's narrative.

The word collusion is carefully chosen, because it plays into the storyline that this campaign is rigged against him, that these are two establishment figures who will do anything they can to try and keep him from winning.

And so it could potentially backfire against Cruz and/or Kasich because it might make Trump voters that much more inclined to come out and vote and support Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: Dana, do you think it's too ate for them to try to do this?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, because as David just laid out, the this is not an attempt to stop Trump so that one of them can win. The this is just to stop Trump from getting the delegates before -- needed for the nomination before the Cleveland convention.

What I think is so fascinating is how things change rather quickly, because I did a fair amount of reporting on this back in March, when the discussions started, and it was really a one-way conversation. The Kasich campaign, they were trying extremely hard to get the Cruz camp to join forces and have a -- what they called then the split the map strategy.

They wanted it to be much more broad, and the Cruz campaign, they were having nothing of it. They really didn't even want to engage. In fact, the Cruz campaign manager didn't even return the calls of one of Kasich's top aides, John Weaver.

They even enlisted Mitt Romney to try to play the go-between. It didn't go anywhere, because the Cruz campaign thought, you know what? We still think we can do this. We still think we can get the nomination the old-fashioned way with -- or maybe the new-fashioned way -- with the contests, but then he got trounced in New York.

They spent resources there. They spent time there.

BALDWIN: Do you think that was the game-changer for Cruz folks to finally give up the...

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: I think it was a big part of it, because it made it mathematically possible for Ted Cruz to get the nomination and made it imperative for them to make it mathematically impossible for Donald Trump to get the nomination.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: You know, and, Brooke, now he's looking -- if you're Ted Cruz, you're looking at the states that are coming up tomorrow and you're saying this isn't naturally your best territory.

BASH: Exactly.

BORGER: So you're going to get beaten. I think the question here is how are these Kasich supporters going to go?

You can't automatically assume that people who support John Kasich are going to suddenly in Indiana say, oh, OK, I'm going to vote for Cruz.

BALDWIN: We talked to one in Indiana. We talked to an Indiana delegate who it almost seemed like it was tough for him to say I think I might vote for Cruz.

BORGER: Right.

BALDWIN: He quoted some ancient proverb and now almost was doing sort of like this self-talk.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Exactly.

And there's been polling on that about second choices. And you look. About half of the Kasich supporters in some recent polling saying they would go for Cruz. But also 22 percent say they would go for Trump. So, you know, it is not a slam dunk in any way, shape or form. It's a gamble, but it's a gamble these campaigns, particularly Cruz, believes that they have to take at this point.

BALDWIN: Then there was the Koch brothers twists.

So, one of the billionaire Koch brothers, who's poured millions and millions of dollars into the campaign of conservative candidates, is now saying, hmm, might be possible to support Hillary Clinton. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: So is it possible another Clinton could be better than another Republican?

CHARLES KOCH, CONSERVATIVE DONOR: It's possible. It's possible.

QUESTION: You couldn't see yourself supporting Hillary Clinton, could you?

KOCH: Well, her -- we would have to believe her actions would be quite different than her rhetoric. Let me put it that way.

Though, on some of the Republican candidates, we would before we could support them, we have to believe their actions will be quite different than the rhetoric we have heard so far.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: After that back and forth, Hillary Clinton tweeted, "Not interested in endorsements of people who deny climate science and try to make it harder for people to vote."

But, Dana, what did you make of what Charles Koch said?

BASH: That it shows just how unhappy the establishment money people -- and it kind of sounds weird for me to use establishment and the Koch brothers in the same sentence because, you know, since 2010, they certainly haven't necessarily been that way.

But in the Donald Trump world that we're currently living in 2016, they do look more establishment, and that it just shows how much they don't necessarily want the choices in front of them, particularly Donald Trump.

[15:10:05]

You know, Hillary Clinton can say all she wants that she doesn't want their support. She probably wouldn't get it. But what would be most important is if they continue to sit on the sidelines in a general election campaign. That would be very beneficial to Hillary Clinton.

BALDWIN: The plot thickens.

Dana Bash, Gloria Borger, thank you so much. BASH: Sure.

BALDWIN: Remember, five states hold primaries tomorrow, working title Super Tuesday part 75. CNN's special coverage starts 4:00 Eastern.

New details today about the emergency landing that Prince's private jet made days before his sudden death. We now know why the pilot forced that plane to the ground.

Also ahead, Beyonce addressing adultery and it seems cheating within her own marriage with this new album that's stunned the music world. We will discuss that.

And a family killed in their own beds execution-style as they slept, who could be behind this? A manhunt is under way. We will take you to Ohio for that.

You're watching CNN. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. Watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

[15:15:00]

Right now, a manhunt for the gunman who killed eight members of this one family in Ohio. The final autopsy is set for today, but the youngest victim was just 16 years of age. I can tell you, all of these victims were shot in the head at close range. Most of them were asleep.

In one case, a newborn just 4 days old was spared as she lay beside her murdered mother. Listen to this 911 call from a relative at a crime scene.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: Ma'am, ma'am, you have to tell me what's going on.

CALLER: There's blood all over the house. OK.

911 OPERATOR: My brother-in-law is in the bedroom, and it looks like someone has beat the hell out of him.

911 OPERATOR: OK.

CALLER: There's blood all over (INAUDIBLE)

911 OPERATOR: Ma'am, can you tell me what county that's in? Is it...

CALLER: Pike county.

911 OPERATOR: It's Pike County?

CALLER: Yes. And they dragged them in the bathroom.

911 OPERATOR: OK. OK. I need you to get out of the house.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Authorities also found marijuana grow operations in three of the four homes where the murders took place. But they haven't actually said specifically if drugs were connected to these murders.

Let me bring in former prosecutor and HLN anchor Nancy Grace.

And when you hear the -- it's just gruesome, these execution-style, you know, victims were asleep. This one family. What does your gut tell you about this?

NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": That it's drug-related.

If you look at the history, the recent history in Pike County, which is piked in the city, in 2012, there was a major and sophisticated grow site operation that law enforcement at that time said had links or suspected links to the Mexican drug cartel.

They don't play. Another interesting fact, police are not releasing all the details, but we do know that these eight homicide victims were in three different homes. Now, two of the homes were a mile from each other. The other was not too far away. Two could be walked between. This was an operation that occurred very synchronized and very sophisticated.

They left behind a 3-year-old, a 6-month-old and a 4-day-old sleeping next to its mother. This is planned. This is targeted. And why would you target three different groups of families all related? Why? That's the question.

BALDWIN: And apparently one of the victims was bloodied and beat up, in addition to all these other execution-style...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: You know what's interesting about that, Brooke, is...

BALDWIN: What?

GRACE: ... that to a layperson, to a civilian's eye, a gunshot wound to the head could look as if the person had been beaten in the head.

But what suggests that a beating did occur, as you hear in the 911 call, is that there was blood around the house. Does that mean that a beating occurred before the final death? We also know that all eight victims were killed execution-style gunshot wound to the head.

It happened. We can identify the timeline between 11:00 p.m., when one of the victims had a job and left their job, and 7:30 a.m., all three families wiped out.

BALDWIN: The sheriff has talked to other, you know, surviving members of this family, last name Rhoden. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES READER, PIKE COUNTY, OHIO, SHERIFF: I spoke with the family. It was very evident that they were a target of this horrible crime. Me and the attorney general spoke with them. I cautioned them that they were a target. And I told them to be armed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Told them to be armed. What -- if you are a member of this family in Pike County, Ohio, what should they be doing?

GRACE: Honestly? Leave. Leave, because if the Mexican cartel is involved in this -- and we do know that there were grow sites, big marijuana grow sites on some of this property, I don't know that anybody can be protected 24/7/365.

I'm just telling you the truth. They should leave until the perps have been caught.

BALDWIN: Nancy Grace, we will stay on it. Thank you so much, as always.

GRACE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: You can watch HLN weeknights 8:00 Eastern.

Coming up next, Beyonce apparently taking on rumors about adultery between herself, her husband, Jay-Z, in her lyrics, uses a baseball bat.

The stunning release of "Lemonade" has people talking about race, relationships, female empowerment. We will talk about it all coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:24:15]

BALDWIN: Whew, Beyonce stopping the world once again, dropping a visual album via HBO over the weekend. The superstar covers everything from Black Lives Matter to black girl magic, uplifting women of color in a series of stylized music videos.

But the thing that everyone is talking about today, infidelity, adultery, cheating, rumors of her husband, rapper Jay-Z, reportedly having an affair. Beyonce even tossing her wedding ring at the camera with one final warning.

[15:25:10]

Joining me now, Jamilah Lemieux, senior editor for Ebony.com, and CNN commentator, cultural critic and writer Michaela Angela Davis. She's also a board member of BET's Black Girls of Rock.

Awesome to have you both of you ladies on.

You made this is a date Saturday night, you and "Lemonade," done.

MICHAELA ANGELA DAVIS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I have been planning.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

DAVIS: No, this is the truth. Last Saturday, when she dropped that one image of the promo with the blond cornrows and the dirty blond fur, the next day, I was on 125th Street getting my hair cornrowed.

I don't know why I was so moved by that image. It just triggered something ancient and wonderful and black girl. It's beyond black girl magic. It was like black girl mojo. I knew something, an event was coming. I didn't know why.

BALDWIN: Wow. Wow.

DAVIS: So it surpassed what I expected. I didn't -- did you know what it was going to be?

JAMILAH LEMIEUX, EBONY.COM: I had no idea. I knew, like, after formation that we were not getting "Bootylicious."

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Something changed.

LEMIEUX: We weren't going old-school Beyonce.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: New Orleans. Southern.

LEMIEUX: Radical images.

BALDWIN: Yes.

Before we get to black girl magic and other themes, I mean, let's just rip the Band-Aid off, because everyone is talking about what is going on. There's always been sort of rumors. Is this -- would you see this as musical artistry or is this sort of Beyonce saying, yes, what you think of as this perfect marriage flawed?

DAVIS: Well, I think it would be hard to call it a rumor when you have Jay-Z starring in it in the most intimate scenes.

BALDWIN: This is acknowledgment?

DAVIS: Acknowledgment, but themes of infidelity, rage, revenge and fear. Those are like Shakespeare.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: What is she trying to tell us? DAVIS: She is trying to tell us she is alive. She is grown as -- she

is a marriage. She had a father. She has friends. She kind of gave us an epic...

BALDWIN: Father was unfaithful.

DAVIS: So, it's all those intersections, right? And so I think it's -- again, I mean, to say it's a rumor, would you star in a rumor?

BALDWIN: But then why is it untitled?

LEMIEUX: I think that this family is very strategic and smart and deliberate about what they reveal and what they don't. You know?

Is there an implication that some of this is true of Beyonce and Jay-Z and some of it is true of Tina Knowles and Matthew Knowles? Sure. Are we getting the entire story? Should we look at this and say this was a documentary about their lives? Absolutely not.

As Michaela said, these are universal themes and she is so brave as to share a part of herself with the world while connecting to this -- to something we have all experienced. We have all been cheated on. We have all had heartbreak.

DAVIS: And it's pushes through a really artistic lens.

When you see, it's 1,000 paintings, 100 haikus and 11 really good songs, right? This is narratives, but in an artistic way. And one of the things I tweeted that I got response from is, like, we had this Prince-sized hole in our heart and then Saturday came and she poured some sweet "Lemonade" in that hole and gave us this feeling of that we move forward as artists, that we keep doing new things that are provocative and drive people -- she drove people insane, insane.

BALDWIN: She has for years, and also what I have loved about her through the years is the empowerment of women, specifically here the empowerment of black women. She even invoked a speech from Malcolm X here. What do you think this is about?

LEMIEUX: That moment brought me to tears.

BALDWIN: And you're getting emotional right now.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMIEUX: Just watching that on CNN, there was -- that clip, that specific Malcolm X quote, I have used in terms papers and essays since I was a kid. And that the biggest pop star in the world wanted to share those words, not with one of her girlfriends, not with her sister, not with her mom...

BALDWIN: But with the world.

LEMIEUX: ... but with the world. And she has experienced it.

Look at the backlash from the "Formation" video and performance at the Super Bowl, so even her wealth, even her fame, even the amount of love that she gets from people of all creeds and colors could not protect her from being attacked, from having her words and her imagery used against her to suggest that she was pro-police violence or anti-police in some sort of way. I mean...

(CROSSTALK)

DAVIS: Drudge Report called her an urban terrorist today with a -- urban terrorist with a baseball bat. Right?

So, see, but she has transcended those kinds of attacks. I mean, that's what happens when you're an artist. You're brave. And I feel like "Lemonade" is a turning point for her, that this is a flash point where people will remember where they were when they saw it, and not in a way to compare it to "Purple Rain," but "Purple Rain" was that moment where we saw Prince's career shift.

And a lot of it, it's the same. It was musical. It was cinematic. It was autobiographical. This is very similar, right, in that pop culture way, where we saw an artist explore and expand and explode our --