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Latest in Series of Targeted Killings in Bangladesh; Philippine Terror Group Kills Canadian Hostage; Voters Head to Polls in Five States; Prince's $300 Million Estate in Legal Limbo; Beyonce's Controversial "Lemonade" Album. Aired 12-1a ET
Aired April 26, 2016 - 00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[00:00:10] JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: This is "CNN NEWSROOM," live from Los Angeles. Ahead this hour:
ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: Hacked to death over free speech; a leading gay rights activist killed in Bangladesh.
VAUSE: Donald Trump says bring it on after his two rivals are working together to stop his path to the Republican nomination; and, Hillary Clinton expects full support from Bernie Sanders, without conditions, if she wins the democratic nomination.
SESAY: Plus, what to do with Prince's fortune and the vault of songs he left behind.
VAUSE: Hello, everybody; great to have you with us. We would like to welcome our viewers all around the world; I'm John Vause.
SESAY: And I'm Isha Sesay; "NEWSROOM" L.A. starts right now.
VAUSE: Two men in Bangladesh are dead after a gruesome attack, the latest in a series of what appears to be targeted killings in the capital city, Dhaka. One victim was Xulhaz Mannan, the editor of Bangladesh's first and only magazine for the country's lesbian gay, bisexual and transgender group. He also worked for the U.S. Agency for International Development at the time of his death and formerly for the U.S. Embassy.
SESAY: Police say a group of men posing a couriers entered a flat and attacked the victims with machetes. The U.S. Ambassador to Bangladesh has condemned the killings; they come just one day after police detained a student in the hacking death of a professor on Saturday.
VAUSE: Let's bring in Senior International Correspondent Ivan Watson and Brad Adams, Executive Director of Human Rights Watch as well.
Ivan, first you; what do we know about the gang behind this most recent attack, what are the details there and exactly what are authorities doing to track them down?
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, via satellite: Well, John, so far no claims of responsibility. We do know that this appeared to have been a home invasion, with this group of people infiltrating the house and then killing the two men, Xulhaz Mannan and then his friend, Tanay Mojumdar.
As for a motive, well, they could be many because Xulhaz Mannan, his death has sent ripples throughout the diplomatic community. He had been a former chief protocol officer at the U.S. Embassy and then he was now working with USAid. Could he have been targeted because of his affiliation with the U.S. Embassy or could it have been because he was a gay rights activist, working with this only real LGBT magazine in all of Bangladesh, called "Roopbaan?" That also could have been, perhaps, a motive for this attack and it certainly has sent ripples as well throughout the LBGT community in the country.
You know, he wrote an article on an Indian LGBT magazine, called "The Pink Pages", and it was surprisingly optimistic, saying he was an openly gay man and concluding with this sentence, "In a country where the whole concept of sex and sexuality is a taboo, we're learning to navigate our ways by highlighting love as the center of all." It was an optimistic message; and this man cut down savagely with machetes and very frightening because it fits a pattern of murders that have been taking place in the capital, Dhaka, and other parts of the country that has been accelerating over the course of the past year. John?
VAUSE: I want to pick up the last point with Brad because as Ivan was mentioning, there has been a series of killing atheist bloggers, the professor killed a day or two ago. Is there now a sense in Bangladesh that these gangs, whoever they are, they can act pretty much with immunity?
BRAD ADAMS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: Yes; people are very scared there. I was in London recently and I met with a room full of bloggers. Some are based in the UK or Bangladesh and other people have fled. We just had a team in Bangladesh and there's an incredible sense of fear and insecurity. People are afraid about who will knock on their door. They're afraid to go outside at night.
There does seem to be immunity. The government has, of course, taken some action, investigated some cases but at the same time they have criticized the victims. They claim that some of the victims have religious sentiment. They have asked them to be quiet. One senior government minister suggested that the victim community leave the country if they want to be safe.
The government is not devoting the resources that this pattern requires, because they are spending most their time going after a political opposition. Just last week they arrested an 82-year-old newspaper editor on pretty flimsy charges. I think what has to happen now is the government has to actually make this national priority number one, to try to root out the culprits.
VAUSE: Ivan, very quickly, back to you; they used machetes, even they were armed, apparently, with firearms. So by using the machetes, especially brutal here, what was the message, I guess, that was being sent by doing that?
WATSON: It's spreading a climate of fear across Bangladesh. When you have [00:05:01] been targeting now six atheist and secular writers killed in some 14 months; a university professor in a provincial city cut down with machete's just last Saturday; some foreign targets, an Italian aid worker, he was killed with a gun last October in Dhaka; and then a rising number of attacks against minority groups as well. The big question here, who is carrying this out?
The government insists that this is the work of home grown extremists, but we've been saying now claims of responsibility from groups affiliating themselves with al-Qaeda and with ISIS as well and there even seems, some experts say, to be some kind of competition between groups as to who can kill more people and spread more fear within intellectual groups, liberal groups across this majority Muslim, but also supposed to be secular democra -- democratic country. John?
VAUSE: Yes; Brad, John Kirby from the U.S. State Department said the U.S. was outraged by this murder. He also added this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KIRBY, SPOKESMAN, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: Bangladesh is justifiably proud of its history as a moderate, tolerant, inclusive society that values the diversity of its people, culture and religions; and this attack fundamentally seeks to undermine all that Bangladesh stands for and all that the Bangladeshi people have strived to bring about in recent years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Brad, do you agree with him, Bangladesh is a tolerant and inclusive society?
ADAMS: Unfortunately, that's not the case. It's an extremely polarized society, politically, along religious, sectarian lines and we have a government that actually is polarizing the situation in many ways; demonizing the victims here, but also spending a lot of time going after political opposition which boycotted the last election.
I think what is possible now is that because one of the victims was a cousin of a former foreign minister, somebody I know, (Inaudible), it may be that the government starts to take this more seriously because this is starting to strike closer and closer to the heart of the country. I would not be surprised to see that senior intellectual figures, who the government takes more seriously, starting to be targeted. I only hope that they take action before it's too late because they really have been standing on the sidelines for the last year.
VAUSE: Well, so far it seems nothing is being done because these attacks continue. Brad Adams there from Human Rights Watch; our Senior International Correspondent Ivan Watson there in Hong Kong; thanks to you both.
SESAY: Now a Philippine terror group has killed a Canadian hostage. John Risdel was one of four people kidnapped by Abu-Sayyaf last September. He was killed when a ransom deadline expired.
VAUSE: It's not clear what will happen to the other hostages. Canadian Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau says his country will work with the Philippines to bring the killers to justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTIN TRUDEAU, PRIME MINISTER, CANADA: Canada condemns without reservation the brutality of the hostage takers and this unnecessary death. This was an act of cold blooded murder, and responsibility rests squarely with the group who took him hostage. The Government of Canada is committed to working with the government of Philippines and international partners to pursue those responsible for this heinous act, and bring them to justice. On behalf of the government of Canada and all Canadians, I would like to express my deepest condolences to the family and friends of Mr. Risdel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: Well Bob Rae joins us now from Ontario, Canada. He's a longtime friend of Risdel, and a former member of the Canadian Parliament. Bob, we are so sorry for your loss. This is devastating news.
Your friend was taken hostage in September of last year. I understand you were involved in efforts to secure his release. What can you tell us about that? How far were you able to get?
BOB RAE, FAMILY FRIEND, JOHN RISDEL FAMILY, via telephone: Well, I mean, I really was just advising the family about making sure that they were able to be in constant communication with the Canadian government and with the Filipino government, which obviously had responsibility for helping to figure out what to do.
I mean, these four people, now three, were in captivity in a war zone in southern Philippines. There's been an ongoing gorilla conflict between the Abu Sayyaf gorilla group, the terrorist group, and the government of the Philippines. So it was a complex and difficult effort to get them out.
I mean the Canadian government and the Norwegian government both made it clear that they were not going to deal directly with anybody and that they [00:10:02] were not going to be paying ransom. So the families themselves had to figure out what to do; and, obviously, they were caught in the maelstrom of this highly complicated political and military conflict. In the end, as we know, the deadline of April 25th, which is one of many deadlines, but the deadline was passed and Mr. Risdel was killed in a really ruthless, brutal fashion by the -- by Abu Sayyaf.
SESAY: And Bob Rae, I know at a time like this, you are trying to hold on to the good memories of your friend John and how he lived. What would you like people to know about John Risdel?
RAE: Well, I mean, I met John in university and we're both in our late 60s, so that's 50 years ago. And he was a very vital and engaging guy. He was very adventurous. His career path was unique to him. I mean, he decided he would do different things. He worked as a journalist; he worked in your business for a long time. Then he worked for a number of companies in the oil business, as well as in the mining business. And he worked internationally.
He worked in North Africa. He worked in Asia and he worked in the Philippines. When he died, he was actually in semi-retirement and was on a sailing holiday on his own boat and stopped the boat at a resort and was staying for a few days and it was there, in a terrible irony, that he was captured with three other people, who are still in captivity. That's why it's hard to talk in any great detail about what efforts have been made, but it's important for their families to know that everybody is trying to figure out what the next steps could be in trying to get them released.
SESAY: Yes; Bob Rae, we are once again so sorry for your loss. Of course, our hearts go out to the Risdel family. I just want to say thank you so much for joining us at such a difficult time to share what you know and to tell us a little bit more about your friend. Thank you.
RAE: Thank you; thank you very much. I appreciate it.
SESAY: Now, the U.S. is sending a message to Russia with a show of support for NATO allies in Eastern Europe. Two highly advanced F-22 Raptor fighter jets landed at a strategic Romanian air base on the Black Sea Monday. It's close to the Ukraine border and the Russian navy fleet in Crimea.
VAUSE: NATO's eastern members have been on edge over Russia's annexation of Crimea and with the backing of pro-Russian forces in eastern Ukraine. CNN's Clarissa Ward was onboard the refueling plane that traveled with the F-22's.
SESAY: She has more on the signal Washington is sending with its most sophisticated aircraft.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: These Air Force pilots are preparing for a unique mission; they will accompany two U.S. fighter jets to Romania, a NATO ally on the Black Sea. It will be the first time America's fearsome F-22 Raptor has landed there; an opportunity for the U.S. to show its bolstering NATO defenses on Russia's doorstep.
Flying one of the two is Squadron Commander Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Lahowski. He explained what makes the F-22 special.
LT. COL. DANIEL LAHOWSKI, SQUADRON COMMANDER, U.S. AIR FORCE: A combination of stealth, super cruise, increased situational awareness that the aircraft provides us, which all that adds up to a unique (inaudible) metric advantage on the battlefield.
WARD: So basically you're saying this is the best fighter jet in the world?
LAHOWSKI: The aircraft is truly incredible. It is, indeed, the best fighter aircraft in the world. WARD: The technology is so advanced that Congress has banned their sale overseas. On route to Romania, the jets must regularly be refueled, a delicate balancing act we got to see close-up. A nozzle, called a boon, is lowered from the tanker. The jet then moves into place, directly below it, and the gas starts pumping.
Officially, this is a training exercise to move U.S. fighter jets from a fixed base to a forward operating base, but it's the symbolism that is important here. This is intended to a show of force to an increasingly assertive Russia.
Earlier this month, Russian jets repeatedly buzzed a U.S. Navy destroyer in the Baltic Sea, in maneuvers the U.S. called provocative and aggressive.
Since the annexation of Crimea in 2014, Russia has steadily built up its military footprint on the Black Sea, unnerving many NATO allies in the region. As Romanian Air Force Chief of Staff Lorien Anastasof told us this.
LORIEN ANASATASOF, CHIEF OF STAFF, ROMANIAN AIR FORCE: Increasing the air [00:15:01] activity. They're increase the missions. They're increasing the training. This is the things what we are seeing every single day. So we need to get ready for what's going to be. That's my major concern, how to get ready for what's going to be next thing.
WARD: And like many here, he hopes that the U.S. will continue its commitment to its NATO allies, whatever tomorrow may bring.
Clarissa Ward, CNN, Constanta, Romania.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Well, when we come back, Lyin' Ted, Crooked Hillary, Donald Trump likes to hit rivals with colorful nicknames. Now, he is launching a verbal food fight with another one, calling his table manners "disgusting".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SESAY: Hello, everyone; in the U.S. race for the White House, voters head to the polls in five northeastern states just hours from now.
VAUSE: (Inaudible) Super Tuesday all over again. Republican Front- runner Donald Trump is looking to build on his big win in New York last week. He is blasting rivals Ted Cruz and John Kasich for making a pact to try and stop his path to the party's nomination, calling them pathetic, desperate, weak, among other names. He's also taking aim at the Democratic Front-runner, Hillary Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R) REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When two candidates who have no path to victory -- they have no path. They are mathematically out. They ought to quit so we can ought to get together, we can all unify and we can all go against Crooked Hillary Clinton and beat her; really, really beat her big league.
[Cheering]
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[Laughter]
SESAY: Big league; joining us now are Dave Jacobson, a Democratic Strategist and Campaign Consultant with Shallman Communications.
VAUSE: Also John Thomas, a Republican Consultant and Founder of Thomas Partners Strategies. Okay, John, let's start with the deal between -- we joked about this last night; desperate times call for desperate measures.
Too little too late? I mean, if only they had done this, what, you know, six months ago?
JOHN THOMAS, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT AND FOUNDER, THOMAS PARTNERS STRATEGIES: Right; and people had been calling for them to do it for a long time.
SESAY: Yes.
VAUSE: Yes; forever.
THOMAS: The problem is, New York really set -- reset the game and gave Trump that big wave of momentum; and now it's looking harder to stop him, especially with these unbound delegates. I'm afraid this strategy is too cute, by half at this point. I just don't think it's going to work. It's not quite as cut and dried as they seem. It's complicated to communicate this message to supporters. I don't see it working.
SESAY: Dave, speaking of communications, of which you're a master, I mean, it doesn't help -- I'm making you feel good. It doesn't help that John Kasich is really defensive about it. They seem shifty about it when asked to explain the rational behind it.
DAVE JACOBSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST AND CAMPAIGN CONSULTANT, SHALLMAN COMMUNICATIONS: No candidate wants to pick up and get out of the scene, right; but I think he has run out of options. This is the only strategy moving forward is preventing Donald Trump from getting to the 1237.
[00:20:01] He knows he doesn't have a chance of coming in second, or of first in Indiana. His last hope is for Ted Cruz to have a last stand opportunity, to somehow prevail in Indiana and prevent Donald Trump from winning there.
VAUSE: Okay; the funny thing about this is we're making this assumption that this deal is going to stick.
SESAY: Yes; exactly.
VAUSE: Okay; so let's listen to Ted Cruz and John Kasich today, talking about how it will or won't work in Indiana.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED CRUZ (R-TX) REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So for the supporters of John Kasich, in the state of Indiana, I would ask you to please support our campaign.
JOHN KASICH (R-OH) REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have never told him not to vote for me. They ought to vote for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: They (inaudible) vote for me. Okay, so just after that, Donald Trump put out a tweet, "Kasich just announced he wants the people of Indiana to vote for him. Difficult politician; can't make a deal work."
[Laughter]
SESAY: Seriously.
THOMAS: It's true. It has almost been 24 hours and it's already falling apart.
VAUSE: Yes, the wheels are coming off.
THOMAS: Yes.
VAUSE: But this is more talking about the Super PAC's though, isn't it?
THOMAS: That is; the rules are you can't legally talk to the Super PAC's but you can talk through the media to Super PAC's. They're trying to tell their supporting Super PAC's, look, re-shift your ad dollars. Don't waste them in states we're not competing.
SESAY: But even if you try to be optimistic and try and take an open- minded view about this deal, why would someone who supports John Kasich give their vote to Ted Cruz, who is so far to the right of that? I mean, even strategically speaking, why would a supporter do that? It just plays wrong on so many levels.
THOMAS: That's right. It sounds great in a petri dish --
SESAY: Yes.
THOMAS: -- but the execution is really hard; and that's also assuming that 100-percent of Kasich supporters are going to go to Cruz and not fracture off and go to Donald Trump; not to mention the early vote that's already cast their ballot. It's too complicated.
JACOBSON: I think your point on the Super PAC's is precisely right. I mean, this was largely to prevent, sort of, the John Kasich attacks that we're seeing from the anti-Trump Super PAC that's playing right now in Indiana. It was an opportunity for them to sort of send a message to the folks to pivot away from that narrative and help inflate whatever they can do for Ted Cruz.
THOMAS: Let's not forget the last reason they did this is they're trying to break the inevitability narrative that we will probably be discussing all week long, and now here we are saying, is this trick going to work? So try to mix it up. The narrative will strangle them otherwise.
VAUSE: We can tell that Donald Trump is really annoyed today --
[Laughter]
VAUSE: -- because he had some really tough words for John Kasich and the way he eats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And then you see him eating in the morning. Did you -- I have never seen -- he is stuffing pancakes in his mouth like this. I'm always telling my boy, take small bites. Barron; little tiny bites. And yesterday he said, Daddy, who is that guy on television? That's disgusting.
[Laughter]
TRUMP: Did you ever see -- then they talk about presidential. Oh, I see; he is presidential. He puts pancakes this big in his mouth and he's shoving them in.
[Laughter]
TRUMP: This is not a presidential person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[Laughter]
VAUSE: This is not a presidential person, says Donald Trump. Boy, he can't help himself. Look, this is the interesting part about this campaign: is that, you know, it is entertaining. It is fun. Everyone says be more presidential. No one wants him to be more presidential, do they; really?
THOMAS: I know his supporters love it when he takes jabs, when he throws around water and says, this is Rubio. This is Rubio.
VAUSE: Yes.
THOMAS: His supporters love it; and, look, he has an ability to draw a narrative against an opponent and show them as out of touch. This reminds me of an episode of "Seinfeld," when they're talking about how to eat a Snickers, with forks. It's ridiculous.
[Laughter]
JACOBSON: But here's the question: can you imagine Ronald Reagan doing that, of Bill Clinton or George Bush or Barak Obama? I mean, the reality is he said he was going to make this pivot to be more presidential. His advisers are going behind closed doors at the RNC saying --
SESYA: And certain people --
JACOBSON: -- he will be -- he is not doing it, clearly, on the campaign trail.
VAUSE: Reagan didn't make a joke on a radio address one day saying a wanted a bombing strike on Russia or the Soviet Union --
THOMAS: Right.
VAUSE: -- and I was only kidding. All right, let's get to Democrats very quickly because this is all about the delegate counts.
For Bernie Sanders delegates equals leverage, equals a party platform. Hillary Clinton, just a few hours ago, on MSNBC said, not so fast. Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I did not put down conditions. I didn't say, you know what, if Senator Obama does X, Y and Z, may I'll support him. I said, I am supporting Senator Obama, because no matter what our differences might be, they pale in comparison to the differences between us and the Republicans. That's what I did.
At that time, 40-percent of my supporters said they would not support him. So from the time I withdrew until the time I nominated him, I nominated him at the convention in Denver. I spent an enormous amount of time convincing my supporters to support him, and I'm happy to say the vast majority did. That is that what I think one does; that is certainly what I did and I hope that we will see the same this year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So, Dave, basically she's saying here, vote, talk, everything else walks. How is that going to wash with the Sanders supporters?
[00:25:01] JACOBSON: Look, I think she looked a little angry there --
VAUSE: Yes.
JACOBSON: -- and I think she's getting a little ahead of herself. That's the conversation she should have behind closed doors on Wednesday morning, after she prevails in some of the big states tomorrow: Pennsylvania, Maryland, which make up the bulk of the delegates moving forward.
She has 82-percent of the delegates that she needs moving forward. Going into tomorrow's election, she could theoretically have 90- percent of the delegates after tomorrow. So I think this is a conversation she should have behind closed doors and on Wednesday morning; not publicly and not in sort of an angry manner that she just looked like.
SESAY: But isn't she trying to exploit what we're hearing out of the Sander's Campaign, that there seems to be some indecision about the way forward in terms of attack, don't attack, what do you want, how do we navigate this path? That's what she is trying to exploit here.
JACOBSON: Right; I mean, you heard Tad Devine, Sanders' Chief Strategist today say, look, we're going to reassess our situation after Tuesday. I think she should have hit the pause button on this conversation and reassessed on Wednesday morning.
VAUSE: For Hillary Clinton, don't poke the alligator until you get across the creek.
JACOBSON: Precisely.
VAUSE: A little bit of advice.
JACOBSON: Right.
[Laughter]
VAUSE: There's only crocodiles.
[Cross Talk, Laughter]
SESAY: Always a pleasure; thank you. All right; well CNN, Tuesday, will have extensive live coverage of the U.S. Presidential Primaries happening in five states. It's all right here on CNN.
In the meantime, we will take a short break. Officials are investigating how a music legend Prince died. Now the attention is turning to another big question; who will inherit his millions? We'll take a look at the outcomes in just a moment.
Plus, Beyonce gets personal and political in a new album, "Lemonade." our fans all over the world are trying to dissect her lyrics and those images.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody; you're watching "CNN NEWSROOM" live from Los Angeles; I'm John Vause.
SESAY: And I'm Isha Sesay; the headlines this hour: investigators in Bangladesh are looking for the people behind the brutal hacking deaths of two men. One of the victims was the editor of a magazine for the country's lesbian, gay, bisexual and transsexual community. (Inaudible) say a group of men posed as couriers got into the flat where he lived.
VAUSE: The Philippine terror group, Abu Sayyaf, killed a Canadian hostage. John Risdel was one of four people kidnapped by the group last September. The militants pledged allegiance to ISIS two years ago. It's unclear what happened to the other three hostages. SESAY: Tuesday marks the 30th anniversary of what's considered the worst nuclear accident in History. The 1986 explosion and radiation leak at the Chernobyl Power Plant in Ukraine left more than two dozen people dead in the immediate aftermath. An untold number of people died later from exposure.
[00:30:01] VAUSE: The verdict is in in the Hillsborough Inquest -- it's actually set to come in on Tuesday rather. Jurors have been deliberating on whether negligence caused one of the worst sporting disasters in British history. 96 people died in the 1989 Football match when the stadium became so overcrowded that fans were crushed and suffocated.
SESAY: Now it could be weeks before we know what caused Prince's death according to authorities and the singer's publicist. The 57- year-old was found dead at his Paisley Park Studios on Thursday.
VAUSE: His death came about a week after his private plane made an emergency landing in Illinois. He was reportedly rushed to a hospital but then continued home to Minneapolis. The Federal Aviation Administration released the emergency call on Monday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DISPATCHER: What's the nature of the emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An unresponsive passenger.
DISPATCHER: Was it a male or female passenger?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a male passenger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: Well another big question right now is who will inherit Prince's estate? For more on this we're joined by criminal defense attorney, Darren Kavinoky. Darren, --
DARREN KAVINOKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hello.
SESAY: -- good to have you with us.
VAUSE: Good to see you.
KAVINOKY: Always great to be here.
SESAY: The overriding question right now is, did he or did he not have a will?
KAVINOKY: Right; that is the big question; and it would be shocking, frankly, to think somebody as sophisticated --
VAUSE: Yes.
KAVINOKY: -- in business transactions wouldn't have a will but --
VAUSE: It's being reported there is no will. They haven't found one; right?
KAVINOKY: Yes.
SESAY: And, in the absence of that, what does Minnesota law say?
KAVINOKY: Well, under Minnesota law, it apparently would be his sister who is the only heir that would inherit his incredibly vast fortune, which has been valued at something around $300 million or more. There is some debate about the value. Of course, the amazing thing, and we have seen this happen time and time again where, after a celebrity dies, the value of their estate increases dramatically.
VAUSE: Okay.
KAVINOKY: We saw that in the Michael Jackson case, where --
VAUSE: Since his death he's worth a billion dollars --
KAVINOKY: -- a billion dollars since his death.
VAUSE: One question though, he had -- Prince had three half-brothers, who are still alive, two half-sisters, who are still alive. Do they have any claim here?
KAVINOKY: They may. So what this -- ultimately what happens is every state has laws about intestate succession. So when people die without a will, there's a formula applied that says this -- certain relatives will get a certain portion of the estate; but from what I have seen now, it really is the sister who is going to be the ultimate beneficiary, in fact, if there is no will or no trust.
SESAY: Does it -- because she's the beneficiary, she would become the executor of thee estate or is that -- are those two separate issues?
KAVINOKY: Those are two separate issues. The executor of the estate is the person who ultimately controls --
SESAY: Exactly.
KAVINOKY: -- the direction of what happens.
SESAY: Sorting out the catalog and property, all of this, his name, his image, all of that stuff.
KAVINOKY: Exactly; and how that can be used in the future. That's where the executor makes those kinds of decisions. Typically, we are talking about an executor of a will. And executor is somebody who is named. Right now, it's just so wide open; there are so many unanswered questions about where that stands.
VAUSE: So we're looking at a situation where his sister will essentially be in charge of all these unpublished songs because we have a situation with Michael Jackson that music is coming out.
KAVINOKY: Right. VAUSE: Prince who, you know, controlled everything so closely, if it wasn't perfect, he didn't want it released. That's all out the window --
KAVINOKY: Right.
VAUSE: -- because it's now up to the sister.
KAVINOKY: Right, well, and it's more than that. Prince was very, very controlling. He owned the rights to his music, obviously. He actually played various instruments. He played multiple instruments on the tracks. He was very aggressive in protecting his rights on those -- on his intellectual property. So it may ultimately be that his sister is going to be in control of all of that; and it's an enormous chunk.
SESAY: It's an enormous, but it's a chunk that comes with a large tax bill, correct?
KAVINOKY: Yes; and the IRS is watching this very, very carefully because often times people can avoid taxation by properly setting things up through a trust; but if there is no will or trust then the IRS is going to be an enormous beneficiary.
VAUSE: A couple people have asked the question; he was a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses church.
KAVINOKY: Yes.
VAUSE: Absence of a will leaving anything to them, do they have any claim to any part of this estate?
KAVINOKY: No, just the fact that he's a member of the church wouldn't allow them to be a claimant, unless he had made some kind of specific indication --
SESAY: Does it have to be written, because they claim that he had said?
KAVINOKY: No; here we are talking about something that would have to be in writing --
SESAY: Okay.
KAVINOKY: -- before they're going to be able to make any kind of claim, and you know, it's so unfortunate. I think really the story, besides this obviously the fantastic amount of wealth, what's going to be incredibly interesting is to see how, of the toxicology report comes back as people are [00:35:01] waiting to see what the cause of death was.
VAUSE: And that's going to be another couple of weeks before --
KAVINOKY: Yes; indeed. Indeed.
SESAY: Darren, always a pleasure; thank you. KAVINOKY: Oh, thank you for having me. Of course, glad to be here.
SESAY: Thank you.
VAUSE: Appreciate it.
SESAY: All right; time for a quick break. Beyonce waxes poetic on her new album "Lemonade," singing stories of love, infidelity and freedom. More on her political reach, next on "NEWSROOM" L.A.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Beyonce fans are reading the tea leaves with her new album "Lemonade." The tracks cover love, jealousy and empowerment.
SESAY: She also gets political singing about freedom and referencing the Black Lives Matter movement.
VAUSE: Okay; joining us now Entertainment Journalist Segun Oduolowu and E! News Correspondent Zuri Hall. Thanks guys for coming in.
ZURI HALL, CORRESPONDENT, E! NEWS: Good to be here.
VAUSE: This is not my wheelhouse, so I'm so glad you're here.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, ENTERTAINMENT JOURNALIST: What, infidelity? Rumors of infidelity, that's not --
SESAY: Talk about being a black woman.
HALL: Not his forte.
VAUSE: One thing I'll just throw it out there and you guys can pick it up; behave. This was more than just a new album. This seems, as far as I can tell, in my grand wisdom, a cultural event. Yes? Why? Why is this such a big deal?
ODUOLOWU: Ladies first.
HALL: Oh, ladies first?
ODUOLOWU: Yes, because I want you to say stuff and then I will just tear it down.
HALL: And then you'll just rip it apart? Okay; no pressure at all.
SESAY: There's two women here. There's two women here.
HALL: I've got backup; here we go.
ODUOLOWU: I ain't never scared.
HALL: Well, there it is. I feel like it's a big cultural deal because Beyonce, as huge as she is, as mainstream as she is, is speaking very directly to the Black Lives Matter cause, to the struggle of the black woman. I feel like initially, a lot of her fan-base felt alienated, maybe, because they thought this wasn't for them; and that's one of the reasons why I applaud her taking this step because it is very cultural. It is, I don't think, as controversial as people make it. I think she's just standing up for what she believes is right, what I believe is right; and I applaud her for it.
SESAY: Segun, talk to me about -- first of all, let's just talk visually about "Lemonade" and all the metaphors, all the imagery. How did it speak to you?
ODUOLOWU: Visually it's arresting. So you can't sit down, have it play and not be moved or frozen in your tracks as you see the images. I mean, as a man, if you are just sitting there and you see Serena Williams in heels dancing in one of the videos, that in itself made me a tennis fan.
HALL: The twerking particularly, right?
SESAY: And then she's in a song called "Sorry" and it's basically I'm not sorry. It's very defiant.
ODUOLOWU: Now that's the part that got me, the defiance for -- okay; Jay-Z and Beyonce because you can't separate --
SESAY: Sure.
ODUOLOWU: -- first of all, free (inaudible), free Jay-Z because they have taken to an unrealistic level.
VAUSE: Do you think he's watching "Game of Thrones" last night?
ODUOLOWU: I hope he was watching "Game of Thrones" last night because here's the thing: why would a couple that is so uniquely private, even when they were dating, he would scowl at you if you talked about the relationship, now they're going to open up, in this broad forum, with this conceptual art? You're basically going to talk about your infidelity?
HALL: I feel it's a broad forum and yet it's artistic expression. So within that, it is safe to be more transparent. Do I think Beyonce would ever come out and speak publically about this stuff in an interview format? Absolutely not; but because it's in the song lyrics, we sit here and we debate and we wonder, is this real life? I think this is her way of being honest with us, getting things off her chest. I'm absolutely sure that Jay-Z co-signed on every single one of those tracks.
ODUOLOWU: No, she put him on (inaudible)
[Cross Talk]
ODUOLOWU: She has him kissing her feet.
HALL: With his permission.
ODUOLOWU: He's kissing her feet in the video. The kissing the feet part --
SESAY: Listen, as much as we can delve into the Beyonce/Jay-Z, which we don't actually know the facts of -- we're just interpreting what she put out [00:40:03] there, we do know because it's clear from the iconography, the lyrics, that this is a love letter -- to quote you, "a love letter to the black women." They even go so far as to play a little bit of Malcolm X.
Let's just play the clip for our viewers, to give them context, as to the clip they used in "Lemonade."
[Clip from "Lemonade" by Beyonce plays]
SESAY: I don't know if our viewers could make it because the audio wasn't that great, but essentially it's Malcolm X basically talking about the plight of the black woman in America. Talk to me about what that said to you and the use of it.
ODUOLOWU: Those are my sisters. That's my mom; that's my aunt. Those are the women that I grew up with, like, I know -- do you know what I mean? So when you are watching those images of -- those are people that I know and that I feel for. Those are the women that are being called the "B" word in a lot of hip hop songs. Those are the people that have been downtrodden and oppressed more so than anybody, that are raising broken homes and raising young men when fathers step out. So this is like a gift to them; and for Beyonce to do that as strong as she is, a woman, a mother, saving her own marriage with speculation, all that was swirling around, to do that, to me, it goes more than just fan; like you said, it's like a love letter to the black woman, but more important it's empowerment.
HALL: It is; it's absolutely empowerment. You see with the social hashtags, #blackgirlmagic; you know, this idealization of the black woman. I'm so excited to see it. I hope it's not a trend; I hope this sticks but the idea that Beyonce recognizes and reminds us, I'm one of you. I struggle like you struggle and this is how have I gotten to where I got. I've made lemonade out of those lemons, you know.
I think she's addressing something that a lot of us dealt with but she's never talked about that before. So to hear someone we idolize so much. --
SESAY: Queen B, yes.
HALL: Queen B saying she goes through the same things we do, that's empowerment.
VAUSE: Did you have a problem with the fact that this came out two days after Prince died? On the other hand, it's kind of a reminder that there's risk taking out there in; there's still people who have this incredible talent as well?
ODUOLOWU: No, gosh; it was great that it happened after Prince died because it was like carrying the torch.
VAUSE: Yes; that's what I was wondering.
ODUOLOWU: Like I said, conceptual art. Even if she's talking about things we don't know about and its art imitating life, for it to come after someone who was so bold, so out there; she took chances with those videos. There is nudity, there is language that people aren't used to hearing.
SESAY: There is aggression, real aggression from Beyonce.
HALL: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: You don't used to see Beyonce do that. She took a chance. She swung for the fences. I applaud her for that.
[Applause]
VAUSE: So do I.
ODUOLOWU: I applaud her.
[Applause]
SESAY: It's okay. It's all right.
ODUOLOWU: Come on.
VAUSE: It was great.
[Cross Talk]
SESAY: We're going to pick this up next hour. We're going to keep the conversation going; thank you so much.
ODUOLOWU: All right.
HALL: Thank you.
VAUSE: Thanks, Guys.
SESAY: And thank you for watching "CNN NEWSROOM" live from Los Angeles; I'm Isha Sesay.
VAUSE: I'm John Vause. "WORLD SPORT" is up next; you are watching CNN.
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("WORLD SPORT" AIRED)
