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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield
Voting Underway in Five States; Relative of Murdered Ohio Family Speaks Out. Aired 12-12:30p ET
Aired April 26, 2016 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:00:17] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.
Right now millions of people are voting in primaries in five different states. It is yet another Super Tuesday. Not so super that Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton could wrap up their party's nominations, but they could sweep all five states that are voting as we speak and that could make life super complicated for their rivals. Democratic primaries in Connecticut, Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Rhode Island are offering up a total of 384 delegates. Republican primaries in those same states offer 172 delegates.
And if you like suspense, well, then you've got yourself a Pennsylvania. That's the state to watch. We're going to have a whole lot more on why that state is so complicated and so critical.
Hillary Clinton is 429 delegates shy of the number that she needs to clinch the nomination. Donald Trump is still 391 delegates away to head off the prospect of a floor fight in Cleveland come July.
I want to begin this hour with my CNN colleague Jim Acosta, who's in Philadelphia, and Brian Todd in Baltimore.
So, Brian, I'll start with you. Take me to the ballot cam. Tell me how voting's going.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ashleigh, a lot of enthusiasm today here in Maryland. It's clearly a big day in the primary season. You've heard all the nicknames for it, Super Tuesday 4.0, the Amtrak primaries, the Acela primaries. Well, the nicknames are fine, but this is really where the fun starts here, where the voting actually begins.
This has been a steady flow here at the Mount Washington Lower School in North Baltimore. People checking in here. They tell you that - you tell them your name, your party affiliation. Then they hand you a paper ballot. That's a new feature this year here in Maryland. They've had digital voting prior to this, but now they want paper for a little more transparency and to ensure the accuracy of the vote. Then you come over here to these voting stations. There are 14 voting stations here in this precinct. You vote by paper. Then you put it in the scanner over here.
A very steady flow of voters here this morning, Ashleigh, but also early voting is very, very popular in Maryland. You could vote here between April 14th and April 21st, eight straight days of early voting opportunities. And they had a record turnout in Maryland for early voting. Hundreds of thousands of people turned out to the poll.
This is a very blue state. Hillary Clinton is counting on Maryland to solidify her lead to really, you know, to cement the lead that she has in delegates and everything else. She is expected to do well in all five primary states today. Maryland should hold for her. She was ahead in the polls coming in here. We've sampled nearly 60 voters as they've come out of here and about two-thirds, almost two-thirds of them say they voted for Hillary Clinton. They're citing experience and electability. That's really what's voting - what's driving the voter dynamic, at least here in this precinct here Baltimore. Interesting, one political operative here just told me a short time ago, in Maryland you've got to win in four places, Baltimore City, Baltimore County, Montgomery County and Prince Georges Country near Washington. Those are Hillary Clinton's strongholds. It looks like that's holding true to form today, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: It's going to be a great day to sort of watch how everything shakes up, not just in those counties where you are in Maryland, but all five of those states.
Brian, step aside, if you would, for one moment because I want to go to Pennsylvania to my colleague Jim Acosta.
Jim, this is not the kind of time I would say to you, have you seen one of the candidates voting, but, in fact, you did see one of the candidates, not voting, as he's from Vermont -
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: : That's right.
BANFIELD: But you had the close encounter with Bernie Sanders.
ACOSTA: That's right, Ashleigh. It reminded me of the old days of covering politics, you know, when you'd see the candidate actually on the street and you might have a chance as a reporter to go up to that candidate and ask a question. Well, that's what happened with Bernie Sanders. The Democratic insurgent candidate walked right past us here in front of Philadelphia's city hall. We're normally covering the Trump campaign, but Senator Sanders walked right past us and, obviously, with Hillary Clinton heavily favored to win here in Pennsylvania and all these states that are up for grabs today, Sanders has heard the question all day long, is he feeling the pressure to get out of this race if Hillary Clinton has another big night tonight? And he was ready for it. He gave us his response. And it was - it was one that he was smiling, but a little bit annoyed. Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Real quick for CNN. Just curious what you're thinking about today. It's expected to be a big day for Hillary Clinton. Are you feeling any pressure to get out of this race?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: (laughing) Have a nice day. You know, I've answered that question 50 times.
ACOSTA: Yes.
SANDERS: Democracy means that every person in this country has a right to cast a vote for president of the United States. We've got a message that is resonating. We have won 16 states so far. We have gone from 3 percent in the polls to, in some polls actually being ahead of Secretary Clinton. We're in this race to win and we've got a good shot to do it.
[12:05:07] ACOSTA: And how do you feel - how do you feel about Donald Trump using your comments about Secretary Clinton?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: So there you go. Did not answer that question about Donald Trump now frequently using what Bernie Sanders is saying out on the campaign trail to go after Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton also is turning her sights to the general election campaign. She is increasingly going after Donald Trump. Not so much against Bernie Sanders. But as you know, Ashleigh, the trick is going to be, as we move into this general election campaign on the Democratic side, can Hillary Clinton start to move towards Donald Trump while at the same time not alienating all of those Bernie Sanders supporters out there who are very, very fired up and very enthusiastic about their candidate. He's got the youth vote, you know, very enthusiastically behind him. We know that because we're standing in front of some Lionville Middle School students here in Pennsylvania. They might be a little too young to vote, but I just did an informal poll of these kids behind me, Ashleigh, two Bernie Sanders, two undecideds. So if they had a chance to vote, he would actually be doing pretty well today in the Pennsylvania primary. If they - if they had their say he would -
BANFIELD: Wow, the middle schoolers. The middle schoolers. That is enthusiasm, Jim.
ACOSTA: Yes, that's right.
BANFIELD: I don't even know if we could get them to say who the vice president is.
ACOSTA: That is the youth vote (INAUDIBLE) right there.
BANFIELD: All right, Jim Acosta in Philadelphia, PA.
ACOSTA: That's right.
BANFIELD: Thank you for that, my friend.
ACOSTA: All right. You bet.
BANFIELD: From a safe distance, our CNN senior political analyst and former advisor to four, count them, four U.S. presidents, David Gergen, watches all of what transpires, especially before each of these critical contests. It's always fantastic to get your insight. The first thing I want you to weigh on, if you can, we don't like to focus on polling on election day.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.
BANFIELD: We want the voters to decide.
GERGEN: Right.
BANFIELD: But you can't ignore how powerful Donald Trump is in these five states and how powerful Hillary Clinton is in these five states.
GERGEN: Absolutely. And the polls - you can't - you can't ignore the polls when they all say the same thing, you know, and they're all pointing in the same direction. If anything, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton seem to be growing in strength in these five states, not the other way around. Typically, you know, Bernie Sanders closes in on her in the last 48, 72 hours before -
BANFIELD: Well, and he has in the national polls.
GERGEN: And he has in the national polls. But in these five states, she's had a very, very healthy lead, as does Donald Trump. They both sweep. And it - it brings both of them to the very edge to the verge of the nomination.
BANFIELD: I feel like we said that last Tuesday.
GERGEN: Yes. Yes.
BANFIELD: We're at the very edge - very edge of the very -
GERGEN: No, when - yes, I know.
BANFIELD: You know, it's getting a little towards -
GERGEN: I - well, it is. You know, you move halfway to a goal and you move halfway to a goal and you don't quite get there. We're going to get there.
BANFIELD: "Groundhog Day."
GERGEN: Maybe - maybe in Indiana. If they - if each wins - sweeps tonight, as expected, then Donald Trump, if he can win Indiana next week, will very, very likely get to the 12 - magic 1,237 to win the nomination on the first ballot. If he does not win on first ballot, he's in trouble. So it's all important for him to win these tonight and then Indiana.
BANFIELD: So the big story that's developed right before this vote -
GERGEN: Yes.
BANFIELD: And there seems to always be a big story that develops 24 hours before the vote. Surprise.
GERGEN: Well, with these candidates, you never can tell.
BANFIELD: Is this - this - what Trump calls the grand collusion -
GERGEN: Yes.
BANFIELD: Between Cruz and Kasich.
GERGEN: Yes.
BANFIELD: What Cruz and Kasich say, this is politics. What other politicians say, this has been going on for years. This isn't outside the norm. It's part of the rules. But there's so many more questions like, I don't even feel like Cruz and Kasich know that they're colluding, if that's what they're doing.
GERGEN: Well, it's a very strange thing. They apparently haven't even talked to each other about this so-called pact. That's what's been reported this morning.
Look, the logic behind an agreement in Indiana is very, very important. Kasich has about 20 percent of the votes there. If he pulls back and as many as a third go to Cruz, the polls say Cruz would then win. So it's only - he only has to pick up about a third. So you can see why they'd want to do it and why it makes sense.
BANFIELD: It makes sense for him. So -
GERGEN: But they rolled it out in such a clumsy way.
BANFIELD: Clumsy, crazy, yes.
GERGEN: And it seemed so weak that everybody says, oh, come on, it's - it's helping Trump.
BANFIELD: And this is the response they get from Donald Trump.
GERGEN: Yes. Yes.
BANFIELD: And, you know, sometimes he's totally off the rails, but I think he's spot on with this one. "The Cruz/Kasich pact is under great strain. This joke of a deal is falling apart. Not being honored and almost dead. Very dumb." I'm not so sure that it's almost dead or falling apart.
GERGEN: Yes.
BANFIELD: It's just been announced. But -
GERGEN: Well, that's the - the art of a bad deal.
BANFIELD: Well, I guess he could say that.
GERGEN: Yes.
BANFIELD: But I think the critical issue here for a lot of people is, what's to stop a Ted Cruz from doing a bait and switch after he gets what he wants in Indiana? Those other contests are after Indiana.
GERGEN: You are sneaky.
BANFIELD: Am I?
GERGEN: That's the product of a sneaky mind.
BANFIELD: I just thought it was what everyone was thinking. But that could happen.
GERGEN: Yes. The - it could happen. It could happen. And I wouldn't put it past him, you know. And John Kasich is trying to have it both ways. Hey, I'm pulling back, but still vote for me. You know, I - that's why I - I think it's a - I think one of the reasons that Trump has made so much of it is, he wants to shine a light on what seems like an inept agreement. It could have been done much more cleanly.
BANFIELD: Can I just ask you -
GERGEN: What?
BANFIELD: With all of your experience, there's so many epithets and, you know, just so many accusations flying about, like the collusion and the rigging and all the rest.
[12:10:03] GERGEN: Right.
BANFIELD: Isn't this just par for the course? This is the way contests are fought and lost or won.
GERGEN: Yes. Yes. You know, Bismarck (ph) once said, you never want to watch sausage being made. And that goes for politics too. You know, the makings of -
BANFIELD: Yes. But you've seen it.
GERGEN: Yes, we've all seen it. And now we brought it to the television set screens and everybody says, you know, that's - that's pretty rough stuff. That's a little sneaky and - but -
BANFIELD: Welcome to America.
GERGEN: Yes. Here we are. It's (INAUDIBLE).
BANFIELD: So - but it's not something you haven't seen in your decades of covering politics.
GERGEN: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
BANFIELD: It's not rigged.
GERGEN: I first (INAUDIBLE) Grover Cleveland. That was a fairly long time ago.
BANFIELD: Don't say that. I don't believe it. You don't look a day over 30, David Gergen.
GERGEN: Yes, I know. It's good to be with you guys. BANFIELD: Always good to be with you. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.
We're going to have live coverage throughout the day of the primaries today. Don't miss our special coverage starting 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time live from Washington. Super Tuesday number 62 or 82. I'm not sure which now.
Coming up next, if Hillary Clinton has no chance of clinching the nomination today, does that mean that Bernie Sanders still has a chance of catching her? Well, you should hear what he's got to say about that, next.
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[12:15:01] BANFIELD: Got some live pictures for you of one very patriotic Connecticut resident who is in West Hartford casting his ballot, it looks like, at one of our live ballot cam locations. Connecticut, one of five states on the Acela express route that goes through those five very critical Eastern Seaboard states that are voting today. We're going to bring you live updates throughout the day as the voting continues. It might be one now, but you know how it works out, all of a sudden, whoomph, they're all lined up.
In the meantime, today's vote could be a turning point in the Democratic race for the White House. And here's what's at stake, 384 delegates across those five states I was just talking about. Hillary Clinton is pretty much looking for a clean sweep of all five of them as she sets her sights on that finish line. But Senator Bernie Sanders says this race is far from over. Just have a listen to what he told CNN's Chris Cuomo this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, it's a narrow - it's a narrow path, but we do have a path. And the idea that we should not contest in California, a larger state, let the people of California determine what the agenda of the Democratic Party is and who the candidate for president should be is pretty crazy. So we're in this to the end.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: We're in it to the end, so buckle up.
Joining us now with more is Chris Frates, with CNN. He is in Bluebell, Pennsylvania.
So, Senator Sanders has someone else in his corner. Tell me about the tweet that Donald Trump just sent out about now the Democratic race.
CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Ashleigh, this just came in a few minutes ago. Donald Trump saying, "Bernie Sanders has been treated terribly by the Democrats - both with delegates and otherwise. He should show them and run as an independent." Now, of course, this is something we've heard from Donald Trump quite a lot as he's kind of compared his plight to what he calls a rigged system. The Bernie Sanders, he makes the case a lot, you know, that Bernie keeps winning and winning and winning, yet he can't catch Hillary Clinton.
Now, let's remember here, too, Donald Trump would benefit from an independent run of Bernie Sanders. It would split the Democrats and certainly help him if Hillary Clinton did, in fact, become the nominee. And that's kind of part of what you're hearing today as well as the tone starts to shift and Hillary Clinton really hoping to do well in these northeastern states. In fact, here in Pennsylvania, she's polling ahead of Bernie Sanders by double digits. And she started to pivot a little bit away from Bernie Sanders and is taking on Donald Trump. So maybe he's starting to feel that a little bit, you know, hitting him for his suggestion that we temporarily ban Muslims coming into the country, hitting him for his suggestion that we don't need to raise wages, saying that maybe he should get out of his penthouse in Trump Tower or his big resort in Mar-a-Lago, Florida, and, you know, come talk to real people. So that's not surprising at all.
But Bernie Sanders, for his, you know, for his own race here as we heard saying he's not getting out of this anytime soon. And, you know, that's also not surprising. You know, he's already, you know, looking ahead. He's drawing huge rallies here. Thousands and thousands of people. So he's hoping those people will come out and vote for him, help him cut that.
And if you want to kind of get a sense of how today is going to go, how these candidates think the day is going to go, Ashleigh, just look at where they'll be tonight. Hillary Clinton, she'll be right here in Pennsylvania, in Philadelphia, at a big election night event. Bernie Sanders already moving on, heading to West Virginia. But as we heard, he's going to stay in this race and it looks like he'll have the money and the support to keep going, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: In it to the end, as he said. Chris Frates in Bluebell, Pennsylvania. Thank you for that.
Want to talk more about this race with CNN political commentator Ryan Lizza, along with editor in chief of "The Hill," Bob Cusack.
Good to have both of you. Thank you so much.
Ryan, I'm going to start with you. If this is a clean sweep for Hillary Clinton, what does that mean for that statement that we just heard from Bernie Sanders, I'm in it until the end? Is it scorched earth or is it I am platform bound?
RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I don't think - look, it's like that scene in "Animal House" when Bluto said, you know, it's not over until he says it's over. Bernie Sanders is - it doesn't matter if he gets killed in all five states tonight, campaigns end when they run out of money, right? And Bernie Sanders just raised $40 something million in the last quarter - in the last month that he reported. And so he's going to stay in it and he's - you know, he's got - he's got a very rough patch here, right, with the getting killed in New York and probably going to do very poorly tonight. But he's got some states coming up that are a little bit more demographically oriented towards his voters.
I think his goal is to get as many delegates as he can by the end of this race and early June and use whatever influence he's built up with that - with those delegates and his sort of base of support, especially among millennials, who, after all, are literally the future of the Democratic Party, and go into the convention in July and use whatever pressure he can to either influence the party platform, Hillary Clinton's running mate, and her agenda thereafter. So I do think the campaign - his campaign is switching a little bit more from an, "I can win" to an, all right, "I need to extract some concessions," but he's got money, he's going to stay in the race.
[12:20:02] BANFIELD: All right, regarding the concessions or conditions, no matter what, you know, word you use, Bob, I want you to weigh in on this. Hillary Clinton said a couple of things last night on an MSNBC town hall. First and foremost she said, at this time in the race in '08 with then Senator Obama, you know, right now I'm doing better than Obama was doing against me. I'm doing better against Bernie Sanders right now. So take that for what it's worth. And then she went on to say about the certain conditions and whether there were any kinds of conditions like this that were laid out in '08. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I did not put down conditions. I didn't say, you know what, if Senator Obama does x, y, and z, maybe I'll support him. I said, I am supporting Senator Obama because no matter what our differences might be, they pale in comparison to the differences between us and the Republicans. I spent an enormous amount of time convincing my supporters to support him. And I'm happy to say, the vast majority did. That is what I think one does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So, Bob, this looks like the effort to unify the party already, even though we have one candidate saying I'm going all the way till the summer.
BOB CUSACK, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "THE HILL": Yes. And, Ashleigh, I think it's interesting, where Bernie Sanders said recently that he just can't snap his fingers and have the Sanders supporters back Hillary, basically (ph) the translation there is, Hillary Clinton, you're going to have to give me something for me to go all out, to bring all of my young voters to your side. And I do think this is a bit of a different year than Obama versus Clinton. And Hillary Clinton is right, that was a very, very close race. This race is basically over. Sanders says he has a narrow path. That path is very, very, very narrow and it's about to disappear.
So - but he does, I agree - I totally agree with Ryan, is that it's all about leverage. I think he's going to be pushing for minimum wage, he's going to be pushing for campaign finance reform provisions in the platform. And I think Hillary Clinton, she knows this. She knows - she knows that Bill Clinton negotiated deals. And what she said on MSNBC, well, that's - that's just the beginning part of a negotiation. You take a hard line saying you should just back me. I think she knows there's going to have to be some give and take and that's going to be her challenge in the weeks and months ahead is to unify this party. It's a big challenge. I think it's going to be a lot easier for the Democrats to do it, though, than the Republicans.
BANFIELD: Big stake tonight -
LIZZA: And one -
BANFIELD: Go ahead, Ryan, button it up.
LIZZA: And just one thing, Ashleigh. It's not quite right that she said is that there were no negotiations. Remember, she got the Obama campaign eventually to pay down her campaign debt.
BANFIELD: Right.
LIZZA: And so there was a sort of fundraising agreement there. You know, these - they're politicians. They don't - they don't give your support and give everything to another candidate without getting something in return. But she's absolutely right that she and Bill Clinton, once the race was over, did everything they could for Obama and to try and unite the party. And that's going to be a big test for Bernie Sanders to see if he gets there.
BANFIELD: Yes, and it will be interesting to see when that might or might not happen. Ryan Lizza, Bob Cusack, thank you. Good to see you both. Appreciate it.
CUSACK: Thank you.
LIZZA: Thanks, Ash.
BANFIELD: Coming up in the next hour, Wolf Blitzer is going to interview Jane Sanders, the wife of Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders. If you think it's tough on the candidates, well, guess what, it's real tough on their families too. This - you know, the primaries are absolutely grueling, as is the general election, but, man, oh, man, Jane Sanders should have a lot to say with Wolf coming up in just about 40 minutes from now.
Also coming up next, that bizarre mystery surrounding a family's mass murder in Ohio. It's just getting more strange as the search for the killer or the killers intensifies. We're going to hear from a father about his daughter who was one of those victims and her three children also slain.
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[12:28:17] BANFIELD: We've got more details coming out today about the grisly murders of eight members of an Ohio family as the search for whoever murdered them execution style now enters its fifth day. Anytime now the attorney general is expected to release some brand new details about these murders. We do know that the autopsies on all eight members of this Rhoden family have now been completed. The other big part of this story, the father of one of those who was
killed is talking. His struggle to understand what happened, mixed with his anger and his frustration at investigators of all things. Chris Graves is with "The Enquirer" newspaper in Cincinnati and spoke with Leonard Manley, that father, and Chris joins me live now.
Chris, thanks so much for talking to me after you interview. I'm just fascinated by the dynamic between this grieving father, who lost his daughter and his three grandchildren. You would think that he would be working hand in hand with the police to find these murderers. But, instead, there's a strange dynamic that's developed between them. What's happening?
CHRIS GRAVES, COLUMNIST, "THE ENQUIRER": Yes. I do believe they are - hi, Ashleigh, by the way. I think they feel a little put out with law enforcement. They're up there a lot. You know, they're sort of confined up on the family property. And they don't really understand what's going on. They say they don't know who would do this to their family and - and/or why. So I think they feel a little out of the loop.
[12:29:52] As I reported this morning, several members of their family and friends were taken into to be talked to by the Pike County sheriffs about 3:00 in the morning. They were wrestled out of bed to be re-interviewed. And I think those sorts of things just don't sit well with them. I think they're just as perplexed - they say they're just as perplexed as anybody, or at least Mr.
