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Interview With Former Virginia Governor James Gilmore; Trump Delivers Foreign Policy Speech; Cruz Set to Name Fiorina as Running Mate. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired April 27, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[15:00:39]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, here we go, top of the hour. You're watching CNN.

Breaking news, this out of Ohio and that horrifying murder case. The eight members of that same family shot and killed execution-style as they were asleep, remember, one of the mothers had a 4-day-old next to her, though the infant was spared.

These are different locations near pot grow operations. There's been a manhunt under way ever since, but a lot of mystery from these gruesome murders in Pike County, Ohio.

I can tell you right now the state attorney's general and the Pike County sheriff are getting ready to make some kind of announcement. Live pictures there of the podium. As soon as they stand behind that and start speaking, we will take that live for you.

Meantime, let's pivot to politics with breaking news from the campaign trail today, sources close to Senator Ted Cruz telling CNN that he will announce in mere minutes that he has chosen Carly Fiorina as his running mate, former rival now to be running mate. And within the hour, he's expected to make that news official, 4:00 rally in Indianapolis.

Senator Cruz dropped a couple of hints at a press stop earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I have said from the beginning, the most important attribute for any running mate is that he or she should be prepared to step in and fulfill the role as president, the commander in chief, keep this country safe, and champion jobs, freedom and security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: The scoop coming from our correspondent there in Indianapolis, Sunlen Serfaty, who joins us now live.

What do you know will happen at 4:00, Sunlen, as far as the big rollout? SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, sources

tell me and both my colleague John Berman that the pick is Carly Fiorina and Senator Cruz of course is trying to make this into a very big and splashy announcement here in Indianapolis.

Donald Trump will be here just six miles away around the time of the announcement. So certainly trying to steal some of the front-runner's thunder here today. But this move is certainly unusual in terms of the timing, so early on the schedule, and unusual in terms of the sense that Senator Cruz is still very well behind in delegates from the front-runner Donald Trump.

So, certainly there does seem to be a sense that Cruz is trying to pick himself up from that bruising defeat, not only last night, but the fact that he's so well behind Donald Trump. Everything the Cruz campaign is doing and saying right now, including this announcement today, well ahead of schedule of a V.P. pick, really is all about projecting forward and really saying we are still in it.

Senator Cruz last night here in Indianapolis on election night really went out of his way to really speak directly to his supporters, it seemed, basically telling them to hang in there with me essentially. So certainly this pick today certainly trying to send that message to have another person up on stage with him.

Today, we will see them up on stage formally, in their sense, as a potential nominee and potential V.P. pick. Carly Fiorina, it's been interesting to watch her as one of his top surrogates on the campaign trail since she endorsed Senator Cruz in March leading into the Florida primary.

She's really taken on a big role within the campaign. She has hit numerous states with the senator. Senator Cruz, you can tell likes her and respects her. And a lot of the time he remarks on the campaign trail that Hillary Clinton is afraid of Carly Fiorina. Carly Fiorina gives Hillary Clinton nightmares.

So I think there is a sense that potentially she could turn her attack lines on Hillary Clinton from the campaign trail. Also be one of the top surrogates now to take on Donald Trump. So it will be really interesting to watch how she formulates her arguments going forward now in the more formal role within the campaign -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Sunlen, we will take it live on "THE LEAD" at the top of the hour. Thank you very much.

Meantime, let's chat about this, shall we?

Let me bring in CNN's chief political correspondent, Dana Bash, and CNN political commentator and Cruz supporter Ben Ferguson.

Welcome to both of you.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Dana Bash, I don't know what your calendar says. Hello. But mine says April 27. And I also know that the only way Ted Cruz wins the presidency is if this thing goes to a contested convention. So why is he doing this now?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you and I talked about it last hour.

[15:05:04]

The fact of the matter is that they have been signaling to me, to Sunlen, to other reporters who cover Senator Cruz for CNN that they have been working on a list of running mates. Last night, I reported that there was a short list, a handful of people who submitted their tax returns. Carly Fiorina was one of them.

And the reason why I believe we were getting that information, a big reason, was to show ahead of last night when they knew they were not going to do very well, but certainly now that they really didn't do well last night, that they are still in the game. And they are -- and that Senator Cruz is not going anywhere and that he does hope and believe that Donald Trump will not get the number of delegates needed before the convention, just by way of these contests.

So, you know, he's part of the news cycle. We're talking about him. It's a big splashy event, as Sunlen called it. And it allows him to kind of be part of the political mix on a day where he really needs to be part of the political mix.

BALDWIN: Yes, to your point, I'm not sitting here talking about Donald Trump's foreign policy speech. We're sitting here talking about the big announcement in an hour.

So, Ben Ferguson, to Sunlen's point about having it be a splashy announcement, is there more than splash? Is there more than just Ted Cruz getting back in the bloodstream?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, well, I think it's a smart move for two different reasons. One, this is reminding voters looking ahead at the biggest vulnerability with Donald Trump if he was able to get the nomination.

And that is among women. He's been incredibly offensive towards women. We have seen that throughout the entire campaign. It serves as a purpose, because now you will hear Carly out there reminding people of how vulnerable Donald Trump would be in a general election.

It also serves another big purpose, and it was a smart decision, I think, to pick Carly for the reason she can go toe-to-toe with Hillary Clinton. And I think this choice is one of those where she looks forward to that debate and to taking on Hillary Clinton and not being worried about being called sexist if she's tough on Hillary Clinton and Hillary Clinton's record.

So I think this serves two purposes, showing the vulnerability of Donald Trump with women voters. He has a huge gender gap issue to overcome. And it would be one that I think is almost insurmountable in a general election. She will be talking about that and also looking at Hillary Clinton.

BALDWIN: Go ahead, Dana.

BASH: I just want to add that because it is mathematically impossible for Ted Cruz to be the nominee before the convention, what he's trying to do is show delegates, it's not just me. Here's my team. Here's the package. Here's the full package. You're looking at it.

And they clearly believe that that is very helpful thing in a very unusual year, to your point, Brooke, in starting the segment about looking at the calendar, saying, wait a minute, we're at the end of April, and the V.P. pick, never mind, that actually happens when the person is actually the nominee, but also not until well into the summer.

But it's incredibly -- it's an incredibly bizarre year and this is just another part of it.

BALDWIN: It fits into file. Fits into the file of bizarre.

Let me play some sound because, as we know, this is politics. One day, you're rivals, one day, you're friends. This is from January.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLY FIORINA (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ted Cruz is just like any other politician. He says one thing in Manhattan, he says another thing in Iowa, he says whatever he needs to say to get elected. And then he's going to do as he pleases.

I think the American people are tired of the political class that promises much and delivers much of the same.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And, by the way, Ben Ferguson, I have been waiting for it. Donald Trump just jumped on Twitter and he tweeted out precisely the sound bite we just played, where Carly Fiorina was highly critical of Ted Cruz just during this interview with Dana Bash a couple of months ago on "STATE OF THE UNION."

FERGUSON: Sure.

BALDWIN: How does that work exactly here?

FERGUSON: I think there's one big thing. Carly talks on the campaign trail a lot about the fact that she actually pushed the button and voted for Ted Cruz, even though her own name was on the ballot at the time because she realized in her mind what a serious candidate like Ted Cruz looks like compared to a CliffsNotes candidate like Donald Trump.

And I think she understands.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Forgive me. Let me cut -- let me hit pause on this conversation.

We have to go to Ohio, Pike County, the sheriff and some members of law enforcement talking in the wake of those eight family members murdered.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

MIKE DEWINE, OHIO ATTORNEY GENERAL: But did not go inside -- Did not go inside because those were actively being worked by our BCI agents. At that time, I got a briefing, the sheriff and I received a briefing from the agents who were working that particular house.

But, today, because it's no longer an active scene, and we're not, no longer working it, I wanted to go inside.

[15:10:00]

My prosecutor background indicated to me that I wanted to go inside and take a look. It's sort of like getting a -- doing a frame for the picture. And it makes it much easier as we get additional facts as they come in and evidence as we come in, so that you can really understand what this scene looked like and you just get a better understanding, frankly, of the case.

It really gives you, I think, sort of a frame of reference for everything that you can put into that, the evidence we already have, the evidence that we're going to get in the future.

Let me just say, on a personal note, my experience today was no different than my experience in the past in going to a murder scene, a murder scene that's in a house. And you look around and you think just a few days ago, there was a family living here, there were people living here, one case a teenager, others, little children. And you see all the evidence, of course, of people living in a house.

And so, if we need to be reminded of the gravity of the situation, that just sort of brings it home, that we have eight victims, eight human beings whose lives have been snuffed out.

Let me make a couple additional comments. First, as I have said before, I anticipate a lengthy investigation. The nature of a case where a body is found many times means that it's going to take a while. You have eight bodies, you have eight times the many different scenarios and possibilities.

So I look for a lengthy investigation. And let me talk about, maybe to anticipate some of your questions, but we will be open. The sheriff will make a statement and I -- we all, the sheriff and I will be open for questions.

But let me just anticipate maybe some questions and talk about some of the rumors that have been printed in this country and in other countries. I do not intend to shoot down every single rumor. I do not intend to confirm in part or deny in part.

Our priority is to get convictions, not just arrests, but convictions. And when I look at this case, quite candidly, and when our assistant prosecutors look at this case, we look at the case as a case that eventually will have to be prosecuted in court.

And so we're not going to do anything, much as we would like to share information with you, much as we would like to share information with the public, we have no intention, absolutely no intention of doing anything that can jeopardize this case, not just to get an arrest, but also to ultimately get what everyone wants, and that is justice done and convictions or conviction.

Let me maybe say it in a little different way. I assume that the person or the people who committed these murders are watching the news reports that are coming out of Pike County. I do not intend, I do not want to broadcast any information that would let them know details about this investigation, which would be helpful to them and which would hinder -- the disclosure which would hinder our investigation.

The same is true, frankly, for witnesses and people who might give us information who were not part of the murder. We do not want to, frankly, pollute their thinking or in any way give an indication of which way this investigation is going, which would, in any way, affect what they tell our investigators.

We do not want to suggest the investigation is going in any particular direction and that information which could, in fact, influence tips and information that we might receive. We do not want to...

[15:15:02]

BALDWIN: All right. This is Mike DeWine. He's the Ohio attorney general. And essentially he's speaking. He said he himself has gone into the murder scene. Keep in mind, these are eight family members who were murdered execution-style last Friday night.

And so, really, he's not saying a whole lot, but that is very -- that's because he's saying they are very aware that this manhunt is under way, and these murderers are very likely listening in on any kind of news that is coming out of this particular case out of Pike County, Ohio. And so he doesn't want to pollute any of this.

And so here's the sheriff. I don't know if we want to dip in, but basically that's really what we're having, what we have here out of Ohio.

Shall we move on? OK.

Coming up next, Donald Trump delivering a major foreign policy speech today laying out his vision for America and beyond. How is the world reacting to this? And how are his fellow Republicans reacting as well? We will discuss that.

Plus, today, harsh -- a harsh preview of a possible general election match-up. Donald Trump says if Hillary Clinton were a man that she wouldn't get 5 percent of the vote. We will talk about this woman card that he mentioned last night and how she's picking up on that.

Stay with me. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:20:14]

BALDWIN: And we're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

Donald Trump fresh off a five-state sweep taking the podium in Washington, D.C., just a short time ago, very much acting like the presumptive Republican nominee, doing something a lot of his critics say may never happen. He gave a major address on foreign policy.

The Republican presidential front-runner's bullet-pointing his plans, and among them a pledge to renegotiate America's trade deals, a call to dismantle the Iran nuclear deal, decrease spending on NATO and send American troops to fight ISIS. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: President Obama has not been a friend to Israel. He's treated Iran with tender love and care and made it a great power.

We pick fights with our oldest friends and now they are starting to look elsewhere for help. Remember that. Not good. And then there ISIS. I have a simple message for them. Their days are numbered. I won't tell them where and I won't tell them how. We must...

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: We must as a nation be more unpredictable. We are totally predictable. We tell everything. We're sending troops, we tell them. We're sending something else, we have a news conference. We have to be unpredictable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, former presidential candidate Virginia Governor Jim Gilmore. He was in the room during that foreign policy speech there in D.C. today. And with me here in New York, David Rothkopf, author of "National Insecurity: American Leadership in an Age of Fear." He's also the founder and chief executive officer of "Foreign Policy" magazine.

Gentlemen, welcome to both of you.

And, Governor, I'm going to get to you here in just a second, but, David, to you first. You watched. What did you think?

DAVID ROTHKOPF, CEO AND EDITOR, "FOREIGN POLICY": Well, I think if the objective that was to establish that Trump is serious on foreign policy, he failed at every level.

This speech was incoherent. It was fact-free. You know, his solution to almost everything was, let me handle it. You know, Russia, I'll talk to them. China, I'll talk to them. ISIS, I got a plan, I'm not going to tell you what it is.

But, you know, saying that your personality is going to solve every problem isn't a foreign policy. It's really a kind of narcissistic personality disorder.

BALDWIN: Governor, care to respond?

(CROSSTALK)

JAMES GILMORE (R), FORMER VIRGINIA GOVERNOR: Well, first of all, I was pleased to be there at the invitation for the Center for the National Interest.

I thought that there were things about the speech that I was looking for that I heard, which was a call to strength, a belief that we need to rebuild our military, that we need to have a coherent foreign policy, which we do not. I think that Trump was right about that. I think putting American interests first or right is right.

I think those kinds of markers that were set down were strong and decisive. There were some contradictory things in the talk though that I was watching for that are not so great that I think are in conflict within the speech.

BALDWIN: Like what?

GILMORE: Well, the confrontation with our allies, a very belligerent sort of confrontation our allies, a belligerent confrontation with our adversaries, which isn't always wrong.

But I was sitting right next to the Russian ambassador in the room, which kind of great fun, because he was a...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Oh, wow.

GILMORE: He was a cool customer. I can tell you that. And he was very attentive.

But the speech was aggressive and I think confrontational, which isn't always in the national interest. I think David would probably agree with that. But I'm not quite as harsh about the Trump speech as David is.

BALDWIN: Let me stay with you, Governor, just for a second, because David is not the first to criticize the sort of lack of specifics. I think certainly there were buzzwords and obviously talking about beefing up the military and the lack of respect, to Trump's point, maybe from some folks overseas, but what about specifics?

When will the world hear specifics from the man who would like to be commander in chief?

GILMORE: Well, the reason I went to the speech was because I wanted to hear the direction and attitude and approach that Donald Trump would take in foreign policy.

This has been an area of, I think, expertise and interest of mine my entire life. I have spent a great deal of my time in thinking about this, particularly on the campaign trail. So I wanted to hear what the guy that's getting all these votes and is the presumptive nominee is going to be saying. And I heard it.

I don't think that this should be a speech where some low-level person gives the press or the public some specifics about how many troops or how many tanks or how many airplanes. I don't think that was what the speech was intended to do. I think the speech was intended to demonstrate some direction and some focus in an area in which he does not have the longstanding traditions of work in the area.

[15:25:02]

And I think he did that. He went to a room full of people who were sophisticated and thoughtful in foreign policy and national security and I think that achieved his goal.

But I am going to tell you that when we talk about withdrawing from our trade agreements, confronting our allies, being belligerent with our adversaries, it's high testosterone, but I think that American foreign policy requires nuance. And I don't think that means either nation-building like the neocons did or isolationist the way that some people want to be.

I think you have to have a more sophisticated foreign policy. And I think that still is ahead of us with Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: David, I want you to jump in, but it is also sort of interesting how this is resonating among Republicans. We have a couple tweets. Let me just read a couple of them and you can see how this is resonating among a former U.S. House speaker, a former -- actually, let's just begin with Senator Lindsey Graham, who has been quite harsh already.

In his Lindsey Graham humor: "Question number one for Trump, are we sure the guy running the teleprompter has the pages in the right order? #notmakinganysense."

From one extreme from Senator Graham to -- let's go to Newt Gingrich, who supported him, and he tweeted: "This was a serious foreign policy speech by Trump. It is worth reading and thinking about. It will be ridiculed by Washington elite."

And it is.

ROTHKOPF: Well, it deserves to be ridiculed.

You know, you talk about facts or specifics. They weren't any. You talk about a room full of foreign policy specialists. Clearly, everybody in the audience knew more about foreign policy than Trump. His delivery reading this thing off the teleprompter was halting.

You know, he started out with a reference to America first. Well, that was pretty ill-considered. The America-firsters made their names in the 1930s when they preached isolationism in the face of Hitler. And the result of that was the setup for World War II. That America first policy was a failure. That was more specific than this one was.

And when it came to facts, some of the facts he offered were wrong or misleading. He talked about a manufacturing trade deficit without mentioning the surplus in services. He talked about oil being shipped to ISIS from Libya, when that isn't actually what's happening. He talked about Obama beating up on our allies, and then proceeded, as the governor noted, to beat up on our allies and say, look at how they are not supporting us in Japan or Korea. Look at how they are not supporting us in Europe. I'm going to go after our allies.

So it was either fact-free or it was incoherent. And most of it was fact-free and incoherent.

BALDWIN: David Rothkopf and Governor Jim Gilmore, thank you both for having both perspectives.

GILMORE: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Appreciate your time to both of you.

Next here, the woman card, the comment heard all around the world, Donald Trump claiming Hillary Clinton wouldn't even have gotten 5 percent of the vote last night if she wasn't a woman. The social media backlash has been quick, but Trump says he's just telling it like it is. We will debate that live coming up.

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