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Ted Cruz And Carly Fiorina Speak In Indiana; Destruction, Protest Following Trump Rally In California; American Citizen Sentenced To A Decade Of Hard Labor In North Korea; Indiana Governor Expected To Endorse Cruz. Aired 10:30-11a ET>

Aired April 29, 2016 - 10:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:29:20]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SENATOR TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: ... And Governor Scott Walker. I mean, that is a wonderfully diverse array of the entire Republican Party. Of principal conservatives, of people who love this nation. And we have got to unite. Listen, our party's divided right now. If we remain divided, we will lose.

And if you look at -- one of the things that gives me great comfort, is that this race is going to be decided, not in the media newsrooms in New York City, not in the lobbyists' conference rooms in Washington, D.C. This race is going to be decided -- the Indiana race -- is going to be decided by the common sense good judgment. The Midwestern common sense of hoosiers.

That gives me a great deal of comfort. I think the people of Indiana, they want to unite, they want our party to come together, and I think the people of Indiana want a positive, optimistic campaign. Not a campaign based on insults, and attacks, and cursing. And I'm encouraged by that.

CARLY FIORINA (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: By the way, if I could just add, I was actually interested to see an endorsement the other day by Mike Tyson, for Donald Trump. And Donald Trump saying, "wow, all the tough guys are endorsing me." Sorry, I don't consider a convicted rapist a tough guy. And I think it says a lot about Donald Trump's campaign and his character, that he is standing up and cheering for an endorsement by Mike Tyson.

UNKNOWN WOMAN: Senator, you've said previously that Governor Kasich has pulled out of Indiana. Are you saying that you also have withdrawn from New Mexico and Oregon, as well?

CRUZ: Well as we announced last week, Governor Kasich and I agreed to focus our energy on the respective states where we thought it made sense. So the media did a lot of reports about this grand alliance -- there never was a grand alliance. But we made a decision that Governor Kasich was going to pull out of Indiana, and we were going to go all-in in Indiana. And the other end of that agreement was that we were not going to focus our time and resources on Oregon and New Mexico, and Kasich was going to go all-in in those states. And that was an agreement of allocation of resources that I think made

sense from our campaign's perspective, and made sense from his campaign's perspective. The media did everything they could to breathlessly describe it as some sort of grand alliance. It' s simply a decision where to focus time and resources. And I'll tell you the reason we made that decision. Because I think Indiana is incredibly important. I think the people of this state, the country is depending on hoosiers right now. Listen, as a party and as a nation, we're at the edge of a cliff. We are close to going over that cliff.

And I think the consequences of this party making the wrong nomination, nominating a candidate who agrees with Hillary Clinton on issue after issue after issue -- if we get this wrong, if we go to November and the choice on the ballot in November for the country consists of two, big government, New York liberals -- two rich, elite, liberals who believe in Washington, both of whom support Planned Parenthood. Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton both support Planned Parenthood. Both of whom supported Bill Clinton's ban on many of the most popular firearms in America. Both of whom are campaigning on raising taxes on Americans. Both of whom support the individual mandate in Obamacare. Both of whom have said they would be neutral between Israel and the Palestinians. And both of whom would keep in place this disastrous Iranian nuclear deal.

I think if the Republican Party ends up nominating a candidate who, just like Hillary Clinton, is a Washington insider -- Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are both the essence of the Washington establishment. Both of them have gotten rich buying and selling influence in Washington. You know there was a reason yesterday, that John Boehner praised both Donald Trump, and Hillary Clinton. If you want to see more leaders in the Republican Party like John Boehner, then Donald Trump is your guy.

FIORINA: That's right.

CRUZ: If you want to see more leaders like Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, both of whom Donald Trump has given very, very big checks to, then Donald Trump is your guy. But whether it is Donald Trump, or Hillary Clinton, or John Boehner, people are fed up with the corruption of Washington. That they all get rich, and the working men and women in this country get left behind. I believe the people of Indiana want someone who'll stand with the working men. Who don't look at Indiana ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[10:35:45]

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN HOST: All right, you see Senator Ted Cruz trying to rally the troops in Indiana. Donald Trump is campaigning in California. And you know what went down last night. It was a violent scene at that rally. A police car smashed by protesters, officers in riot gear trying to break up fights between Trump supporters and those who want to keep him out of office.

Inside it was a very different characterization from the GOP front runner, however.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me just tell you about protesters. We have the safest place in the country to be, is at a Trump rally, believe me. It's the safest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So let's talk about this and more. I'm joined by CNN Law Enforcement Analyst, Tom Fuentes, CNN Political Commentator, Ben Ferguson, and Jeremy Diamond who was at that rally last night. Welcome to all of you.

Jeremy, I want to start with you because you were at the rally. What was it like, tell us.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Well a pretty chaotic scene unfolded last night, Carol. We saw, after the Trump rally, you had some supporters exiting the venue -- some of them in their cars, some of them by foot -- and of course, there were several hundred protesters who had essentially taken to the street. They were blocking a main intersection just outside this complex, where Donald Trump had just spoken, to nearly 8,000 supporters of his.

What we saw was, we saw several people damaging a police car, they broke a window. We also saw several fights, some scuffles. Very lightning quick breakouts between Trump supporters and protesters outside of the venue. At least one man, who I witnessed, got punched in the face. He was bloodied -- I think we have a picture of that on CNN.com.

Certainly a very intense scene, and the heavy police presence last night. They told us after the event, that they made approximately 20 arrests. And so that's the scene that unfolded last night.

COSTELLO: All right. So, Tom, there were police in green fatigues, there were police helicopters flying overhead, there were deputies on horseback. Police were trying to keep the protesters apart from the Trump supporters. So police knew this was coming, right?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well apparently, Carol, I think the problem here is that, yes they had a lot of police here, apparently that wasn't enough. They didn't have enough police officers. Because they failed to keep that crowd from throwing rocks at passing motorists, from throwing rocks and debris at police officers, from trying to destroy a police car -- turn it over, and then they later jumped on top of it and smashed the window out of it, in the back window.

So there needs to be enough law enforcement at these things, to keep the protesters from each side from clashing with each other, and to protect the property of the community, as well as the police department, itself.

COSTELLO: And Ben, you can't help but think that this could be a sign of what's to come in Cleveland, right? BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think certainly you can

see this as a sign as what's to come with those that are supporting Donald Trump, who are wanting to engage protesters. You always have protesters when you have a general election, or a convention. I was in New York for that convention, 2004, same thing we saw with a lot of protesters in 2008, in Minneapolis.

But the difference now is, you have a leader in Donald Trump, who is inspiring many in his base to become, and react to these protesters, instead of walk away. This is a guy who, yesterday, was endorsed by a basketball coach who -- we all know about his throwing chairs on the court, that's his mantra. But he's advocating for a guy to push the nuclear weapon, push the button, and saying this is a guy that would push it.

You also have Mike Tyson, who has not only been a convicted rapist against women, but has no problem throwing punches, and he enjoys that endorsement. So there are consequences to the rhetoric that comes out of Donald Trump's mouth. He can say as much as he wants to, that his ... but --

COSTELLO: Well let me ask ... let me ask Tom about that. Because I'm interested to know from a law-enforcement perspective if that does make a difference. Tom, what do you think?

FUENTES: I think regardless of what he says, that shouldn't justify destroying property, endangering citizens by throwing rocks at them and passing motorists, and destroying a police car. Back in the 70s when I was a young cop in Northern Illinois, I had to stand in front of the Nazis when they protested. When they won their lawsuit in the U.S. Supreme Court. I had to stand in front of them with crowds of protesters hurling debris at them -- usually falling on us, the police. But that was their right.

And the Supreme Court said, if they're peaceful, they have a right to have a demonstration. And the protesters, if they show up, must keep the peace, as well. And so that's the problem I have with this. This is America, we have to protect freedom of speech, we have to prevent violence at these situations, and not allow this. It's not tolerable, to me, to be destroying police cars. I don't know what that has to do with Trump's rhetoric.

COSTELLO: Exactly, so --

FERGUSON: Here's what I want to say though, Carol.

COSTELLO: Uh-huh?

FERGUSON: Carol, this is the difference though. You have a leader, and many of his supporters, that are wanting to engage in an actual fistfight. That is the difference. And Donald Trump has not been saying to his supporters, "look, let the protesters do what they want to do, but we do not engage them." He has been looking for this fight. It is part of his entire campaign apparatus -- is to say that, "we'll stand up to anybody, at any point, at any time." And you're seeing some of his supporters, they're going, they're looking for a fight. It's the same thing we saw ...

COSTELLO: Well --

FERGUSON: ... in Chicago. Some of his supporters want to fight these protesters --

COSTELLO: The man with the bloody face was a Trump supporter. So I don't think you can indict all the ...

FERGUSON: I --

COSTELLO: ... Trump supporters there for inciting the rioting --

FERGUSON: I'm not indicting all of them, I'm saying -- right, but I'm saying some of them do want to fight. Look, you can look at anytime, anybody that says anything negative about Trump goes on T.V. Look at their Twitter feed afterwards. People want to fight them, literally. "If I ever see you in the streets, I'll come after you." This is part of his campaign, and he has not done a good enough job of denouncing it. He's running for President of the United States of America.

[10:40:50]

COSTELLO: Uh-huh.

FERGUSON: You should show leadership and say, "we do not engage these protesters. We will walk away from them. We are going to have peaceful rallies, and we are not going to give these protesters what they want, which is a fight." But some of these people ...

COSTELLO: All right.

FERGUSON: ... do want to fight.

COSTELLO: Got to leave it there. Jeremy Diamond, Ben Ferguson, Tom Fuentes, thanks to all of you. Still to come in the Newsroom, an American is sentenced to ten years hard labor in North Korea.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:45:35]

COSTELLO: An American man is sentenced to ten years of hard labor in North Korea. South Korean-born Kim Dong Chul was convicted of spying. Before his conviction, CNN's Will Ripley spoke exclusively with Kim. He joins me now live, from Tokyo -- Will, that is -- with why this has happened, why ten years of hard labor, and was this man really a spy?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, there are always those questions, Carol, when you're talking about North Korea. Think about the fact that this trial that happened today, with a ten-year sentence, it took one day from start to finish, with this trial. Now granted, Kim Dong Chul had been in custody for six months before his sentencing, today.

I spoke to him about three months after his arrest -- this is back in January, after North Korea reportedly tested that H-bomb. They brought him into the room, it was the first time the world had even known that this man had been detained. He's a U.S. citizen, one of the few American citizens who was traveling regularly into North Korea. Because he and his wife own a business there, in a city called Rason, which is a special economic zone.

These foreign-owned businesses employ North Korean workers. But this man, Kim, told me that he was in fact, going into North Korea, but collecting sensitive information about the military, and about alleged human rights abuses. And then passing it to his contacts in South Korea. I asked him to explain how it worked.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RIPLEY: How did it work? How did you pass on the information that you collected?

KIM DONG CHUL, NORTH KOREAN DETAINEE (via translator): I bribed a local resident and had him gather important materials, considered national secrets in this country. Such as military secrets, nuclear- related materials. I got these materials, hid them in my car, and secretly brought them to China, where I handed them over. Or, I would go to South Korea and deliver them directly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIPLEY: And that's the exact confession that Kim made in court today. Of course, we have no idea if that confession was made under duress. But I want to read you a statement from the State Department Spokesman, John Kirby, who says, "The welfare of U.S. citizens is one of the department's highest priorities. In cases where U.S. citizens are reported detained in North Korea, we work closely with the Swedish Embassy, which serves as the United States' protecting power in North Korea."

So now Kim, who is 62 years old, begins his sentence of hard labor. He joins another American, 21-year old University of Virginia student, Otto Warmbier, who was sentenced to hard labor for 15 years. His crime -- Carol, you might remember -- he confessed to trying to steal a political banner from his hotel, the Yanggakdo Hotel in Pyongyang. There's also a Canadian pastor in custody right now, serving hard labor for life. A 60-year old man who was digging holes in an orchard. Because he, North Korea says, was trying to use religion to overthrow the regime.

Now we know that the U.S. and Canada are working closely to try to secure an early release for these three men, as they have in other cases of Westerners who've been detained in North Korea. But for their families right now, they simply don't know what the next step will be, other than the sentencing; hard labor in North Korea, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Will Ripley reporting live from Tokyo, Japan this morning. Little bit of breaking news to pass along to you now. I can do that -- before Governor Mike Pence, the governor of Indiana, a very popular man in that state -- is expected to announce at noon today, on a radio show in Indianapolis, that he will endorse Ted Cruz as the Republican nominee. Not Donald Trump, but Ted Cruz. We'll talk more about that after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:52:58]

COSTELLO: All right, I have Phil Mattingly with me, and also Ben Ferguson. And we want to talk more about the Indiana governor, Mike Pence, endorsing Senator Ted Cruz. Why did he wait so long, Phil?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well I think there was -- with Mike Pence, if you've followed his career, either through the House, or while he was governor, he's always very careful, very deliberate in how he decides to go forward on things. He will announce, according to two people familiar with the matter, that he is going to endorse Ted Cruz. And I think the question now, Carol, becomes, what kind of an impact does this have?

Mike Pence, his conservative credentials are, without question, throughout his entire political career. And certainly, as governor of the state of Indiana. This tracks very closely with the message that Ted Cruz has been trying to send over the last couple of days. A message that he's utilized John Boehner's criticism of him, to underscore.

So Mike Pence will endorse Ted Cruz, according to people familiar with the matter. And I think, Carol, right now the issue becomes, does this endorsement move the needle in a major way? Ted Cruz has ground to make up in this make-or-break state. Can Mike Pence help him make that ground up?

COSTELLO: OK, so Ben, he has Mike Pence's endorsement, he named Carly Fiorina as his running mate. He's trying everything he can ...

FERGUSON: Yes.

COSTELLO: ... Will this make a difference in your mind?

FERGUSON: I think it will. I mean, the governor there is respected by conservatives. He is a solid conservative. One of the most conservative governors in all of the U.S. And his supporters love him. This will have a lot of weight there, because he is well- respected by the people that are going to be voting in this primary. And I think having a governor come out, and picking someone that is a little bit behind, also tells you a lot about his character.

He understands this is an important race, he understands how important Indiana is. And I think he sees that Ted Cruz is an individual that should be trusted with your vote, and with this country, as the President ...

COSTELLO: Well the --

FERGUSON: I also think it tells you a lot about Donald Trump. Donald Trump says everybody endorses him. The fact is, not everybody does. A lot of governors have gone against him because they do not believe what he is selling. COSTELLO: I was just going to say, other governors have endorsed

candidates, and it hasn't really helped very much. So why might this be different?

FERGUSON: Well I think it's different because you have a governor here that is a very, very intense leader in his state. And very in- check and in tune with what the people in the state are dealing with. And he's going to be able to make a pretty good argument for why he believes that Ted Cruz is the right man for this job.

I think you also look at the way he's been as a governor. He's an individual that's not bombastic. He's an individual that says, actions speak louder than words. And when you have a surrogate like this that will be on the campaign trail for you, and coming out and doing this endorsement, it could be quite a few points in the polls that Ted Cruz will go up because of an endorsement like this.

COSTELLO: We did get word from sources that internal polling shows Ted Cruz is running behind in Indiana. And this is a state where he should be doing very well because there's a lot of evangelicals in the state. But they seem increasingly attracted to Donald Trump. Why?

FERGUSON: Well I think that they like picking a winner. I mean, we always see this in campaigns. When someone comes off a win, it usually helps them. So I wouldn't be surprised if these polling numbers were done right after he had some wins, and people like to think they're picking a winner. But you have a governor do this, and it can change everything.

COSTELLO: OK, we'll keep our eyes on the state of Indiana. Five days until the big primary there. And then ...

FERGUSON: It'll be interesting.

COSTELLO: I know. That and California, right? It's been fascinating so far ...

FERGUSON: Absolutely.

COSTELLO: ... Ben Ferguson, thanks to you, as always. Thank you for joining me today, I'm Carol Costello. AT THIS HOUR, with Berman and Bolduan, after a break.

[10:55:38] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)