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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Indiana Governor Endorses Ted Cruz; Aired 12-12:30a ET

Aired April 29, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:02] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: They're getting ready for a very big moment when Indiana's Republican governor is going to waltz through those doors and take to one of those mikes. His name, Mike Pence, and there he is. He's expected to throw his support behind -- are you ready? Do you need a drum roll? Probably not because we kind of thought this was coming, Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz for whom the Hoosier state's 57 delegates could be a political lifesaver. Seriously.

It could come down to those 57 after all of this because after six straight punishing losses in the northeast, Ted Cruz, I think, it's fair to say now desperate to show that he and his newly tapped running mate on the right, Carly Fiorina, can, in fact, win in the heartland. Just four days from now when those folks in Indiana go to the polls.

At a press event this morning, the Texas senator was coy about what Governor Pence might actually say about him but he had plenty to say about Governor Pence. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Governor Mike Pence is an optimistic positive unifying force, a strong leader who I respect. You know, when he was in Congress, he was a strong leader in Congress standing up and defending conservative principles, defending the Constitution, and as governor, he's been an extraordinary governor and so I look forward with anticipation to seeing whatever announcement he makes today just this afternoon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: OK. We're going to wait for that announcement. I always love this because it's real nimble. You just got to wait. They don't go on our schedule. They go on theirs. So as soon as that happens, it's going to go live to you as well. You're going to have radio on TV. Just kind of fun.

In the meantime, you're going to have telephone on TV because my CNN colleague Sunlen Serfaty is racing to the southern Indiana town of Jeffersonville because that's what it's like covering a campaign, folks. You literally race and you do your reports wherever you can.

Sunlen, can you hear me?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I sure can, Ashleigh. You know, I have to say this is of course --

BANFIELD: You --

SERFATY: -- very well news to the Cruz campaign.

BANFIELD: I just want to say you can't see the picture. Sunlen, you can't see the picture? But I'm going to have to interrupt you the minute Mike Pence walks in so I don't want to be rude but I'll give you that caveat right off the top. Go ahead.

SERFATY: Thanks, Ashleigh. Well, you know, of course this is a very welcome news for the Cruz campaign. And quite frankly, they will need every bit of help that they can get here in the state of Indiana. And you played a little bit of what Senator Cruz kind of said, teasing the announcement this morning. Of course, he says, you know, he respects the governor a great deal and would enthusiastically welcome his support.

You know, so much has already been said about what Tuesday's primary means for Senator Cruz, his campaign, and their effort to prevent Donald Trump from securing enough delegates before -- outright before potentially a contested convention.

So we saw really a heavy courting of Governor Pence from the Cruz campaign. It was just one week ago today that Senator Cruz sat down with Governor Pence here in Indiana. We saw him really praise him profusely over the course of this week where he's really almost exclusively spent the week here in Indiana. We do know that Governor Pence met with all three of the Republican candidates, Donald Trump and John Kasich as well.

I can say that the Cruz campaign, they weren't expecting an endorsement but of course, were crossing their fingers and hoping for it. You know, we saw when Senator Cruz got the endorsement in Wisconsin of Governor Walker there, how much that really helped him in the final days, really push him over the finish line in Wisconsin. The Cruz campaign was hoping to sort of recreate that on the ground here and in Indiana.

You know, Senator Cruz himself has really been talking up the stakes here in Indiana. What it means for him going forward. Almost with somewhat of an ominous warning, I would describe it as. This morning, he said, you know, we're standing over the edge of a cliff. Indiana will determine whether we go over or not. It was very clear that they see this state as very critical. Very pivotal to their efforts going forward -- Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Sunlen. Thank you for that. Don't go away, though, because I want to keep you on tap for a couple of other questions. I think that was significant. You brought up the point that there has been this courting of Mike Pence.

Critical Indiana, you know, has been on the radar for some time for these candidates and I think it was -- you're going to have to correct me if I'm wrong here, folks, but I think it was just the 20th of April where Donald Trump was photographed meeting Governor Mike Pence and then tweeted out that photograph and tweeted out some pretty fancy and magnanimous language as well about that governor. I wonder what he will tweet out today. I don't know if it will be the

same kind of language but there's that tweet we were talking about, said, "Had a meeting with terrific atGovernorPence of Indiana. So excited to campaign in his wonderful state."

I want to do a side-by-side if there's another tweet after this endorsement happens live in Indianapolis.

[12:05:03] And again if you're just tuning in, I love that you're watching us on CNN. But you're going to be watching some listening going on in just a moment.

That is the live radio station and the broadcast booth for WIBC-FM. If you're not from Indianapolis and you do not know that station, get to know it because this is where sort of a critical moment is going to happen where the governor of Indiana is going to put out his formal endorsement for Ted Cruz over the air waves and that's important because there has been sort of a battle of the endorsements lately and Indiana could be the make or break.

I always say that. I always say that. Such and such a state could be the make or break. But this time, it really is true.

I want to bring in three of my favorite CNN political commentators, Margaret Hoover, Republican strategist, Sally Kohn who just sat up straight because she heard her name, progressive columnist of the "Daily Beast" and Errol Louis is a politics editor for New York One.

So the polling has been tricky in Indiana. I don't think it's -- do they have some kind of code legislation that codify that you can't do the same sort of cold calling, et cetera?

ERROL LOUIS, POLITICS EDITOR, NY1: Can't do automated polling.

BANFIELD: They're walking in as we speak, guys, so I don't want to cut any moment of this off.

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh my gosh.

BANFIELD: Could take a while to get settled in.

KOHN: He has to sit.

BANFIELD: He's got to get -- you know, get his business organized.

LOUIS: Mike check.

BANFIELD: And be introduced so we could just pop up the sound a bit.

KOHN: Why do we think he's drinking before this endorsement?

BANFIELD: Well, I've been wondering what everybody has been drinking during all of these endorsements in the Democratic and the Republican races.

KOHN: Well, he changed his mind. BANFIELD: So, quickly, just in regard to the polling as we wait for

this, look, this is about a week old or so but the most recent FOX News poll has Trump at 41 and Cruz at 33. And if this is the desperation moment, this is tough. I mean, those are big numbers to overcome. I know we've seen it before, Errol.

LOUIS: We have seen it before.

BANFIELD: But this is Indiana. Any thought that there's any suggestion that that window could have closed at all if this could be actually something Ted Cruz can survive?

LOUIS: I saw at least one poll suggesting that it was a little tighter. 39-33. Also, what's important is not so much Governor Pence's or what I'll be looking at, at least, is, you know, God bless local radio. I say that as a former local radio host. They have a different kind of relationship to their listeners than a lot of us might think in other parts of the country. So you've got a guy, Greg Garrison, former prosecutor, who's talking hours and hours and hours at a time with his listeners and who's going to be making a case. So his endorsement in some ways might be more important than Mike Pence's.

And if there's a strong radio network as we saw in Wisconsin --

BANFIELD: OK. I'm going to interrupt --

LOUIS: It can really move the needle.

BANFIELD: I'm going to interrupt because I want to make sure I don't walk on the good governor from Indiana. Let's listen in. See what we can hear. They've started an intro for him. Can we hear anything, folks? No. No. They just got music up right now. So there's nothing that I can bring you right now.

(CROSSTALK)

KOHN: Go ahead, Margaret.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, what we know -- you know --

BANFIELD: You know what, before you say that, real quickly, can we pop up the tweet that Trump just put out? He just put it before this happened. Trump just put out, "Thank you, Indiana, and there's Bobby Knight." So he's touting his big endorsement yesterday and that guy is gone.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: All right, you know what? They're talking to him live. Let's go in and listen.

GREG GARRISON, WIBC RADIO HOST: We got a lot of big stuff to cover, but just briefly, aside from the elections in all of that stuff.

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: Yes.

GARRISON: This full-time job and things have gone pretty well. We have the big storm yesterday. Just give me the thumbnail of what's been going on.

PENCE: Yes. Couldn't be more -- couldn't be more proud of the first responders yesterday. We had an F-1, they told me this morning. It was on the ground for about 150 yards. We had some property damage but thankfully, no one was hurt. And it's the time of the year to be vigilant and I'm grateful that everyone was on top of it in the Zionsville area yesterday. And proud of that. But it's a very exciting time in the life of our state.

I mean, we're at record employment. We have more Hoosiers going to work than ever before. I can tell you there's a big announcement coming again here in central Indiana next week and I think it's all the result of the fact that we've been doing the right things and the right way. Balanced budgets and cutting taxes, making the right investments in education and infrastructure and it's really creating an environment where we're on pace to set another record for investment.

And on the education front, you know, we've put that i-Step test in the rearview mirror. People will be reading that in the paper in the morning. We've had an incredible group of educators that we've pointed to examine how we can have a shorter and more reliable test. We've got to have accountability. We -- as you know, we test our kids every week. We can test our schools every year. But we're going to work with Nicole Fama who's going to chair that committee and a great group that's going to help us craft a test that parents and teachers and people all across Indiana will be confident in.

GARRISON: Educating kids in public school for over 40 years. So I'm glad to see that taking off.

OK. You've spoken to the candidates.

PENCE: I have.

GARRISON: You had a chance to think your way through this. Who you voting for in the presidential primary?

[12:10:06] PENCE: Well, let me first say, this is a very exciting time for Indiana. Isn't it? To have presidential candidates, frankly, in both political parties traveling all across the Hoosier state, to be hearing from and seeing Hoosiers all over the national media I think is a thrill. The last time this happened in the Republican Party, I think I was a junior in high school down in Columbus. So we really celebrate that and I'm grateful that all the candidates are coming through Indiana and dedicating the time and energy they are. But it's clear this is a time for choosing. And all of America is looking to Indiana to make a choice.

Now I have met with all three of the candidates as of about Tuesday of this week. And I want to say, I like and respect all three of the Republican candidates in the field. I particularly want to commend Donald Trump who I think has given voice to the frustration of millions of working Americans with a lack of progress in Washington, D.C., and I'm also particularly grateful that Donald Trump has taken a strong stand for Hoosier jobs when we saw jobs in the Carrier Company abruptly announced they're leaving not for another state but Mexico.

I'm grateful for his voice in the national debate. And let me say, I've come to my decision about who I'm supporting and I'm not against anybody, but I will be voting for Ted Cruz in the upcoming Republican primary.

GARRISON: You've got some -- you were there at the same time for a little while. You know him personally. You know his education. You know his experience and his background and his constitutional roots. What is it that animates you to look in his direction? What did he do?

PENCE: Well, it's -- that's a great question. You know, as you know, I'm a Reagan conservative. I literally -- when I was a teenager, I was active in Democrat politics and then I started hearing the voice of that former California governor who articulated an agenda of principles, of less government, less taxes, traditional values and a strong military. And I'm just drawn to the Republican Party and throughout my career in Washington, D.C., and now here as governor of Indiana, those have been the principles that have really animated my service.

And I sought to support them at every turn but also I've looked for opportunities to support men and women who have the courage to stand on those Reagan principles and I see Ted Cruz as a principled conservative who's dedicated his career to advocating the Reagan agenda. And I'm pleased to support him.

Greg, you know from my career, I know a little bit about taking on the big spenders in Washington, D.C. I was doing that more than a decade ago, when we saw runaway federal spending on both parties. I really admire the way Ted Cruz has been willing to stand up for taxpayers in opposing runaway spending, deficits, and debt, calling for and leading on repealing Obamacare.

And I also have to tell you, I'm very impressed with Ted Cruz's devotion and knowledge of the Constitution of the United States, of the freedoms that are enshrined there in our Bill of Rights from our liberties to our Second Amendment, and of course, I appreciate his strong and unwavering stand for the sanctity of life. But, you know, it's for those reasons and just as much in support of the principles that have always animated my public service that I'm voting for Ted Cruz in the upcoming Republican primary.

GARRISON: You know, I see the -- a person in your spot has got to go through to come to that call even if you kind of got it in your gut in the first place, and I know that you just were able to finally meet with Governor Kasich, our neighboring governor this week, but your mention of these principles as what drive you.

PENCE: Yes. GARRISON: They're fine. A lot of people said they liked them and we

know a whole bunch forgot about that when they got to Washington. What is it about Senator Cruz you think says to you -- he says it, I believe it, and he's going to do it when he's up there in the bright lights?

PENCE: Well, I see a man who's shown the courage of his convictions. It's not a popular thing in Washington, D.C. to take on the leadership of your own party. I know that firsthand. I did it when I was there. I opposed runaway federal spending whether it was a Republican administration or Congress or whether a Democrat administration, and he's been willing to do that.

But let me be very clear. I respect the right and the views of every Hoosier in making their determination in the upcoming primary election. And I urge every Hoosier to make up their own mind. But for me I've always opted to lead is to choose. And here at this time of choosing when people all across Americans are looking to Indiana to make a decision, I just wanted to make my decision known and -- but let me be very, very clear on this, Greg.

[12:15:12] Whoever wins the Republican nomination for president of the United States, I'm going to work my heart out to get elected this fall. Indiana needs a partner in the White House in our prosperity. You know, I mentioned all the good news in Indiana. We're at record employment. More Hoosiers working than ever before. We have balanced budgets, record investment in education and infrastructure but how much more we could do if we had a Republican administration, or if we had a Republican in Congress.

I get very excited about Indiana here in our bicentennial year. The potential in our third century if we have someone working in Washington, D.C., for us instead of against us. So --

BANFIELD: Indiana Governor Mike Pence in Indianapolis live on the radio station saying, while I commend Donald Trump for giving voice to millions of Americans and while this has been difficult, he said it's an exciting time. He likes and respects all three candidates but he says, I'm going to vote for Ted Cruz.

That was also followed by whoever wins, I will throw my support, I will work my heart out, he said, to get that person elected. But that is the big news and it is you could say colossal news for a guy like Ted Cruz who needs this state like oxygen to live.

We're going to talk about what this means and what Bobby Knight versus Mike Pence might actually mean. I love it when all of a sudden sports and politics are going head-to-head. It's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:20:27] BANFIELD: So if you were listening a moment ago, and watching at the same time, you were treated on CNN to a live radio broadcast in Indianapolis, Indiana. It's a critical radio broadcast because the governor of that state, Mike Pence, used to be on Capitol Hill, now he's on that Hill and his endorsement just came out and it's a doozy because it's for Ted Cruz and Ted Cruz needs that state like no other especially since there was another endorsement that just came out for Donald Trump. Bobby Knight. Sports god. Legend. Former coach.

So now it's kind of the battling endorsements, but I want to show you if you just missed it what this endorsement looks like and while you're watching this, just think for yourself for a moment, is that wholehearted? Is that I'm in 100 percent or something else?

Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: Now let me say. I've come to my decision about who I'm supporting, and I'm not against anybody, but I will be voting for Ted Cruz in the upcoming primary.

GARRISON: You've got -- well, you were there at the same time for a little while. You know him personally. You know his education., you know his experience and his background and his constitutional roots. What is it that animates you to look in his direction? What did he do?

PENCE: Well, it's -- that's a great question. You know, as you know, I'm a Reagan conservative. I literally -- when I was a teenager, I was active in Democrat politics and then I started hearing the voice of that former California governor who articulated an agenda of principles, of less government, less taxes, traditional values and a strong military. And I'm just drawn to the Republican Party and throughout my career in Washington, D.C., and now here as governor of Indiana, those have been the principles that have really animated my service. And I sought to support --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I got somebody on the set here who's a Hoover conservative. She's Margaret Hoover.

You were watching that and I was watching you watching that because you had a really interesting reaction.

HOOVER: Well, look, if you are anywhere on the center right of this country, you know that Ted Cruz needed that endorsement more than he needs water right now, in the same way that he needed Walker's endorsement in Wisconsin. The difference, however, is that not only have Walker won a couple of elections in the last three -- three elections in four years, the entire state GOP apparatus fell in line with Walker and Cruz and helped corralled all that support and animism, frankly the talk radio network in Wisconsin is far more robust than it is in Indiana in terms of supporting the never Trump movement, the pro-Cruz movement. That was hardly a full throated endorsement. That is not what the Cruz team actually needed.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: But you're an expert. You're an expert in this but the rest of us aren't. We just listen to the radio while we're, you know, driving or looking after our kids.

HOOVER: No, no, he needed -- I mean, look, there is no question that Mike Pence is a Ted Cruz conservative, is a Ronald Reagan conservative, is a Goldwater conservative. Hence the time for choosing. I mean, this should have been like a really clarion call. This is the moment to choose a conservative. Ted Cruz versus -- you know, Donald Trump is not even really a Republican. Doesn't espouse conservative principles. But why didn't Pence do that?

Pence didn't do that because he's in a state where he's the governor, he has to get reelected in a couple of years, and his state is trending strongly for Donald Trump. All of the back source saying -- all of the people that I have spoken suggested that he -- Pence had made a decision that he would sit out this endorsement. He would not take a stand. So the fact that he took a stand I think says to me, Pence is a principled guy. I think he actually probably did this because he believes that it's the right thing to do, but then he said whoever wins, I'm going to campaign for them in November. I am going to be there for -- read -- Donald Trump if he gets the nomination for the Republican Party.

So it almost feels like he was trying to sort of split the difference with the balance just weighted slightly towards Ted Cruz.

BANFIELD: So the tweet came out almost simultaneously. Donald Trump obviously seeing all of his TV monitors. Up and coming any moment now is the governor of Indiana going to give out, you know, his support and his endorsement to Ted Cruz. So this came out from Donald Trump. "Thank you, Indiana #Trump2016." With a nice hug and an almost kiss with Bobby Knight. Now I don't know -- I don't walk in the shoes of the regular folks in Indiana, but I'm not sure who's the bigger deal. The governor of your state or that guy, Bobby Knight?

HOOVER: Bobby Knight, no question.

BANFIELD: So I may be joking, but, Sally Kohn, that is a big battle of the endorsements four days from Election Day.

KOHN: Well, yes, and you have, you know, Governor Pence who looked like, you know, my kid when I make or choose vegetables off the menu. Which vegetable do you want for dinner? Well, the broccoli. I mean, he just did not look excited there. Versus Bobby Knight who said, yes, I am really enthusiastic about Ted -- about Donald Trump because he would drop a bomb -- a nuclear bomb. I mean, like, you know, this is like --

(CROSSTALK)

[12:25:11] KOHN: He mitigated that by suggesting, you know, it's not the right thing to do but it's good to know someone will do it.

BANFIELD: It's good to know -- I mean, actually --

(CROSSTALK)

KOHN: What are really the voters -- I'm not sure either of these endorsements, I genuinely hope none of these endorsements weigh heavy in the minds of sensible voters in Indiana who are actually thinking about the candidates and who's finger they would really want on the nuclear trigger, whether they want to --

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Before you move on --

KOHN: You know, it doesn't look good.

BANFIELD: For those who may have actually missed the Bobby Knight did say and did do, and the tenor of his endorsement, and I'm going to ask you, Margaret, to watch really closely to see if this is a full throated endorsement. Let's play that moment when Bobby Knight threw all of his support behind Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBY KNIGHT, FORMER INDIANA UNIVERSITY BASKETBALL COACH: And then I think the ingredients that are necessary winning in any endeavor and certainly in politics and certainly for the president of the United States are pretty simple. You've got to be tough. You've got to be smart. And you've got to win. And this man certainly, Donald Trump, this man certainly epitomizes those ingredients.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Errol, is Indiana Ted Cruz's Waterloo?

LOUIS: I don't know if it's going to come quite to that but it's certainly an important pivot point for him. And frankly, it's an important pivot point for the conservative movement. There have been a lot of fights within this Republican battle for the nomination. And one of them is the conservative movement. So you see the "National Review" and some other groups saying, not Trump, never Trump. And we didn't hear that just now from Mike Pence.

So he's within -- solidly within the conservative movement but he's one of those who did not want to sort of draw the line and say, a Trump nomination would be antithetical to what we have fought for for the last 40 years.

BANFIELD: But are you really setting this idea saying if Cruz loses Indiana, there's still a great pathway forward?

LOUIS: Well, I don't know if it's a great pathway but I mean, listen, we have seen a lot of funny things happen with these delegates and, you know, I think we are learning that it's not over until they cast their votes.

BANFIELD: I have to leave it there, guys, but I think that endorsement will get lots of air time, will get a lot of replay but you were here to see it live and first. Thank you.

Coming up, will Donald Trump's speech in California today draw similar protests to what you witnessed on your TV sets last night? We're going to talk about that, and then also, is Trump's woman card backfiring? It might have been an attack that resonated with some, but is there a bad domino effect coming back at him?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)