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Indiana Governor Voting For Ted Cruz; Trump To Speak At GOP Convention; Trump Does Not Get Governor Endorsement; Hillary Clinton One-On-One With CNN; Clinton on Trump Attacks: "I Could Care Less"; Indiana Governor Backs Ted Cruz; Jeb Bush Backing Cruz Over Trump. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired April 29, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 10 a.m in Los Angeles, 1p.m here on Washington. 8 p.m at Aleppo Syria, wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We start with breaking news. A major announcement that potentially could have an effect on the Republican race. The Indiana governor, Mike Pence, picked his candidate with just four days to go until the really important Indiana primary.

[13:00:17] GOV. MIKE PENCE, (R) INDIANA: Now, it's clear this is a time for choosing. And all of America is looking to Indiana to make a choice. Now, I have met with all three of the candidates, as of about Tuesday of this week. And I want to say (INAUDIBLE), I like and respect all three of the Republican candidates in the field.

I particularly want to commend Donald Trump who I think has given voice to the frustration of millions of working Americans with a lack of progress in Washington, D.C. I'm not against anybody. But I will be voting for Ted Cruz in the upcoming Republican primary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, the Republican governor, Mike Pence, picked Senator Ted Cruz with 57 delegates at stake. Indiana is the state that Senator Cruz is really counting on right now as a make or break contest to stop Donald Trump.

Shortly before the Pence announcement, Cruz and his running mate, Carly Fiorina, spoke about the governor, the importance of Indiana, and their message to John Kasich supporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Governor Mike Pence is an optimistic, positive, unifying force, a strong leader who I respect. You know, when he was in Congress, standing up and defending conservative principles, defending the Constitution. And as governor, he's been an extraordinary governor.

CARLY FIORINA (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, CRUZ CAMPAIGN: A vote for John Kasich is a vote for Donald Trump because John Kasich has absolutely no path to the nomination. Not now, not at a contested convention. You've got to vote for Ted Cruz. John Kasich is throwing your vote away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's bring our Sunlen Serfaty. She's joining us now from Jeffersonville in Indiana. An important announcement by Mike Pence, although he was not critical of Donald Trump or John Kasich, for that matter. Some are describing it as a sort of lukewarm endorsement. How is it playing over there?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I have read it exactly the same way, Wolf. It wasn't -- it wasn't quite a full embrace of Senator Cruz.

And I thought Governor Pence really went out of his way to avoid bashing Donald Trump in any way. And he really seemed to also avoid using the word endorsement. He was just saying, this is who I vote for. I hope other people here in this Hoosier state will make up their mind as they see fit.

So, not quite a full-fledged endorsement that the Cruz campaign, of course, was hoping for. Of course, they have to say, at this stage in the game, every little bit helps the Cruz campaign. The state so pivotal for them going forward. So, of course, Governor Pence's words are welcome news. Here's what he had to say earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: I respect the right and the views of every Hoosier in making their determination in the upcoming primary election. And I urge every Hoosier to make up their own mind. But, for me, I've always thought that to lead is to choose.

And here, at this time of choosing, when people all across America are looking to Indiana to make a decision, I just wanted to make my decision known.

And -- but let me be very, very clear on this (INAUDIBLE.) I -- whoever wins the Republican nomination for president of the United States, I'm going to work my heart out to get elected this fall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: And no word yet whether Governor Pence will be campaigning throughout the state of Indiana with Senator Cruz leading into Tuesday's primary. Senator Cruz met with Pence. It was only one week ago today where he met with him one on one.

Pence met with the other two Republican candidates as well. And since that time, he's really been praising Governor Pence at every turn on the campaign trail.

Of course, this campaign hoping that Pence's endorsement or support will do a long -- go a long way, an extra boost of momentum, potentially, going into election day here Tuesday -- Wolf. BLITZER: All right, Sunlen thank you. I want to bring in CNN

Politics Reporter M.J. Lee right now. M.J., Donald Trump scheduled to address the California state Republican convention around two hours or so from now. How important is his message there, especially with what we can clearly describe as a setback of sorts for him today in Indiana with the intense -- with the Pence announcement for Cruz?

M.J. LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Hey, Wolf. Even though we've been talking about Indiana all morning, you're right. The June 7th California primary is such a crucial race for Donald Trump. There are 172 delegates at stake so it is a very big prize.

And keep in mind how the delegates are allocated in the state of California. It is win or take all by congressional districts which means that even if Donald Trump outperforms both Ted Cruz and John Kasich, which according to polls, he probably will, there's still a good chance that both Cruz and Kasich can peel away those delegates from Donald Trump by doing well in certain districts.

Now, one other dynamic to watch out for as we move ahead to the California primary are possible protests. Of course, last night, we saw a very chaotic scene take place outside of a Donald Trump rally in California with protesters taking issue with Donald Trump's rhetoric about race and immigration.

[13:05:07] And in a state where immigration is such an important and a charged issue, this is a scene that we could see play out again in the next coming weeks -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, M.J., thanks very much.

Let's talk a little bit more about the endorsement, how it could shape Tuesday's elections. For that, I'm joined by CNN Politics Director David Chalian, CNN's Senior Political Reporter Nia-Malika Henderson, and our CNN Political Commentator, the Washington Correspondent for "The New Yorker" magazine, Ryan Lizza. Do Indiana voters really care about the Pence endorsement? I'm sure it's not going to hurt Donald Trump or it's not going to hurt Cruz at all. Is it going to really help him though get over the top? Because the latest polls show it's pretty close.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICS DIRECTOR: Listen, it helps in this way. Ted Cruz is throwing everything at Indiana he possibly can. He has cleared the field of Kasich so he could have the one-on-one battle in that deal that they made with Trump there. He put Carly Fiorina on his ticket in a big splashy way, hoping to garner a lot of attention, steal the thunder away from Donald Trump's big, crushing victories on Tuesday night. They did that in Indiana. They've been on Indiana television doing that.

And, today, he's happy to have this endorsement. And it is an endorsement. The guy said he's going to vote for him. He can tout that as an endorsement for the next four days in Indiana. Is any of that going to add up to victory for Ted Cruz? I don't know.

But you would rather have those components and put those all into place, if you're the Cruz campaign, than not and sit back and just let Trump run away with it. They're clearly throwing everything they've got at this.

BLITZER: Yes, and Donald Trump just tweeted. He got a big endorsement from Bobby Knight.

CHALIAN: Yes.

BLITZER: The Indiana basketball legend. Let's put it up on the screen and I'll -- and I'll read it there. Thank you, Indiana. You see the picture of him and Bobby Knight. That's a pretty big endorsement in Indiana, as well.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: It is big. I mean, everybody knows who Bobby Knight is. Even outside of Indiana, he's a figure that spans generational lines in many ways in Indiana. And really in a way that Mike Pence probably doesn't. So, yes, and -- I mean, and they sort of have similar temperaments.

And, Mike, the coach there has been arguing that sort of the rules of coaching and wanting to weigh in and being tough are the same things that he admires in Donald Trump and the same things that would make him a good president. So, in some ways, I mean, it's an equalizer. And I might put a little bit more on Bobby Knight since he's such a colorful personality.

BLITZER: As you know, Ryan, there are endorsements and there are endorsements. When a governor endorses a candidate, usually the governor will go out at a rally and be there, and give a speech and enthusiastically endorse that candidate.

In this particular case, he did it in a radio interview. A key question in the coming days between now and Tuesday, will the governor go out there at rallies and actively work for Ted Cruz?

RYAN LIZZA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I don't know. It certainly didn't seem like it. He said he's voting for Cruz. He didn't say -- he didn't say that every Indianan or every Hoosier should go out and vote for Ted Cruz. But --

BLITZER: And he was very complimentary to Donald Trump.

LIZZA: He was very complimentary to Donald Trump which shows that a lot of Republican politicians are hedging their bets, that they see that Trump is the future of the party. They want a piece of that.

But Cruz has been able to win must-win states in this race, right. He won Iowa. He won Wisconsin. He won Utah. And in all of those states, he did it the same way. He sort of -- he tapped into the right conservative networks. Right -- I mean, you know, right wing. And he got key endorsements. So, in states where there is a strong conservative movement, he tapped into those networks. He did it in Iowa. He did it in Wisconsin with the endorsement from the governor of Wisconsin. He did it in Utah with Romney's big endorsement.

And he's managed, you know, states that have existing hard right networks that he can tap into and he can turn the race into more of an ideological battle with Trump. He's done well. Trump's got the opposite thing. He's got big celebrity endorsements and big rallies. So, it's sort of ideology versus just the big Trump name.

BLITZER: You've heard a lot of people suggest that if Cruz loses Indiana on Tuesday, it's over. Is that going too far?

CHALIAN: Well, I don't -- I don't think it's over, in the sense that I can't envision Ted Cruz getting out of this race before Donald Trump hits 1,237 and he can't do that without California on June 7th. So, I can't imagine it's truly over in that way that everybody closes up shop and goes home.

What I do think is because of everything I just was saying about how much the Cruz campaign is throwing at Indiana, if he loses Indiana, I just think there is no more oxygen. The wind comes out of the sails. There's no more money flowing in. There's nobody that thinks the Cruz mission will be the right bet to place. And that just becomes very hard. His ability to make a really successful argument if he loses Indiana after all of this this week, becomes really complicated, I think.

And as for the Pence endorsement, you're right. It is muted, obviously.

LIZZA: Yes.

CHALIAN: Pence is, clearly, not going to be a Cruz surrogate. He's not -- he's not joining --

HENDERSON: Like Walker, right.

CHALIAN: -- the campaign effort the way Walker did, the way Carly Fiorina who now -- was a surrogate and now a running mate, the ultimate surrogate. He -- that isn't, clearly, where Pence --

BLITZER: Or the way Chris Christie became a --

CHALIAN: Yes.

BLITZER: -- big enthusiastic supporter of Donald Trump.

CHALIAN: Right, that is clearly not the model that Pence is doing here. But, still, if you're Ted Cruz, you'd rather have that than not have that.

[13:10:03] HENDERSON: No, I think that's right. Yes, and certainly conservatives in the never-Trump movement, conservative publications, very much wanting Mike Pence to do this. I mean, there was a call for him to do this leading up to it. I mean, in some ways, he sort of waited until the very last minute to do it. He, of course, is on the ballot as well, uncontested but he'll be on the ballot, again, for his job in November as well. But I think you're right. He's sort of weighing that there is this Trump movement, right? That he's going to need, at some point, if Trump is eventually the nominee. So, I think certainly, it's certainly, you know, his sort of muted endorsement, I think, is a good reading for how the party sort of feels about Trump, at this point.

LIZZA: Absolutely, in that, you know, there's a -- there's -- there are a lot of never -- sort of silent never Trump people out there --

HENDERSON: Yes.

LIZZA: -- who are starting to think, am I really going to put all of my eggs or place my bets on Cruz? You know, what if -- what if Pence sees his own Hoosiers going overwhelmingly for Donald Trump?

CHALIAN: I only mentioned never-Trump --

LIZZA: Those are his people.

CHALIAN: -- if Trump wasn't going to be the nominee.

BLITZER: David, let's take a look at some polls because I've seen various poll numbers in Indiana. You have as well. We'll put some up on the screen. Take a look at these numbers over there. This is the Indiana Republican voters likely nominee. This is a Fox News poll that goes back a few days. Trump 41 percent, Cruz 33 percent, Kasich 16 percent. Are you seeing similar poll numbers in other polls as well?

CHALIAN: Some private polling suggest that eight-point lead for Trump is about where the race still may be. That poll, as you noted, is a week old. So, lots of things happened since then. The one-on-one contest, the Carly Fiorina endorsement, Tuesday night's victories for Donald Trump happened also since that poll. And that probably has the biggest psychological effect --

HENDERSON: Yes.

CHALIAN: -- on voters --

BLITZER: To help Trump maybe.

CHALIAN: -- just seeing somebody rack up that kind of victory night. That has a psychological effect on voters who -- you know, people who are teetering or (INAUDIBLE.) They see a winner and they sometimes want to join the winner.

BLITZER: Yes, how's that Cruz-Kasich alliance working out?

HENDERSON: You know, what Cruz-Kasich alliance? I mean, you sort of get a different answer on any given day. Cruz seemed to say, oh, this never really happened, when he was asked about it yesterday. They never seemed to really embrace it. And I think anytime you're trying to sort of engineer what voters are going to do, pick this guy and carry the wand and then hopefully something will happen down the line. It's a difficult thing to pull off.

BLITZER: All right, guys, stand by. There's more coming up, including Donald Trump. He seemed optimistic this week. He would get the endorsement of the Indiana governor. We have the Trump campaign with us to respond live to Governor Pence's endorsement of his rival. We'll also talk to the Trump campaign about an exclusive interview that CNN just had with Hillary Clinton. Our own Jake Tapper asked her about Trump's calling her corrupt Clinton.

[13:12:47]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As the nominations of Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump seem increasingly more inevitable, attacks between the two are ramping up. And in her first interview since a series of commanding wins on Tuesday, Hillary Clinton just sat down with CNN's Jake Tapper to talk about her general election strategy and what she refers to as Donald Trump's temper tantrums.

JAKE TAPPER, HOST, THE LEAD AND STATE OF THE UNION: He has taken politics to a new place with his negative branding of people, whether it's saying Jeb Bush has low energy or talking about Lyin' Ted Cruz.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes.

TAPPER: And for his supporters, it's really -- it's really worked. He has lately taken to calling you, I believe, Corrupt Hillary and he's had some rather personal and pointed tweets. Have you learned anything from watching the way that Republicans dealt with him in the primaries that will inform how you will deal with such an unconventional candidate?

CLINTON: Well, you know, remember, I had a lot of experience dealing with men who sometimes get off the reservation in the way they behave and how they speak. I'm not going to deal with their temper tantrums or their bullying or their efforts the try to provoke me. He can say whatever he wants to say. I could really care less.

I'm going to stand up for what I think the American people need and want in the next president. That's why I've laid out very specific plans. There's nothing secret about what I want to do with the economy, with education, with healthcare, with foreign policy. I've laid it all out there. And he can't or he won't. I can't tell which.

So we're going to talk about what we want to do for the country. And he can continue on his insult fest, but that's the choice he's making.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: We're going to have a lot more of that Hillary Clinton interview with Jake Tapper later today, 4:00 p.m. Eastern on "The Lead."

Two of the Republican presidential hopefuls are rallying in California today for the California state Republican convention. Trump is scheduled to speak in just about two hours. He'll be followed by the Ohio governor John Kasich. But the big news in the Republican race is the endorsement by the

Indiana governor Mike Pence of the Texas senator Ted Cruz. Here with me to -- in Washington to discuss that and more, Katrina Pierson. She's the national spokeswoman for the Trump campaign.

Katrina, thanks very much for coming in. let me play a little clip. This is Donald Trump speaking about Mike Pence not that long ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): The governor's a great guy. I've met with him. He may not endorse. I don't think he'll endorse anybody, actually. He's -- and he may endorse us. I don't know.

He's a great guy. He's become -- you know, he's done a very, very good job as governor. And he's a great guy. I don't know if we'll get his endorsement. I don't know. I don't think --

CHRIS CUOMO, CO-HOST, NEW DAY: I think he's going to endorse Cruz?

TRUMP: I don't think anyone else will get it.

CUOMO: Oh, you don't think so? You don't think he'll come out and endorse if it's not you?

TRUMP: No, I don't think so.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Well, he did sort of endorse. Obviously, he said he's going to vote for Ted Cruz.

You're the spokeswoman for the campaign. Your reaction?

KATRINA PIERSON, NATIONAL SPOKESWOMAN, DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, I think this quasi-endorsement was really more about the Governor's re- election more than it was about helping Senator Ted Cruz. We'll notice in his endorsement, he didn't say anything particularly bad about Mr. Trump and just that he was going to vote for Senator Cruz.

But it's wise of him to -- if he's going to support anyone, to try not to alienate anyone. This is a governor who had a tough race last time. He's going to have a tough race this time.

BLITZER: But you -- Mr. Trump must be disappointed that he didn't get that endorsement. He didn't think Pence would endorse anyone. He did endorse Cruz.

PIERSON: Oh, well, sure. Mr. Trump obviously would have wanted the Governor's endorsement, and he didn't get an un-endorsement, for that matter. I think that's really the point.

BLITZER: Did the Governor and -- Governor Pence and Donald Trump talk a lot? Did he -- did Trump try to lobby him for that endorsement? PIERSON: Well, they definitely talked. They had a meeting, and I'm

sure they discussed all of the relevant issues. And, you know, it is a risk for the Governor to do this, considering you just mentioned the recent polls coming out of Indiana showing that the voters there are supporting Mr. Trump. So this is definitely a risk the Governor's taking.

BLITZER: Does the Trump campaign do polling -- internal polling?

PIERSON: We don't. We believe in just putting forth our vision and our message to Americans. We're not interested in being politically correct or trying to tell people what they want to hear the way they want to hear it and giving the American public an opportunity to vote someone that's just going to be real with them.

BLITZER: If Cruz wins Indiana on Tuesday, how much of a setback is that for Donald Trump?

PIERSON: Well, it's not going to be much of a setback, because he won't win all of the delegates. Again, we would love to win Indiana. I feel confident we're going to win Indiana.

But this is really a do or die case for the Cruz campaign, even though Senator Cruz has already been mathematically eliminated. This is where he's taking his last stand.

BLITZER: Let's talk what happened last night. There was a huge Donald Trump rally in southern California. A lot of people, thousands of people were there for him. But outside, there were protesters. Twenty people were injured, and various -- 20 people were arrested. One person was injured. Is this a scene of things to come down the road?

PIERSON: You know, I'm not sure. You would have to ask the anti- Trump and anti-American protestors. You'll notice when you see Trump people, they have American flags.

You saw Mexican flags. And these are the people who were inciting violence. They were getting physical. They were defacing property, breaking car windows.

That's not for something that Donald Trump needs to answer. I think we should ask who they support for president and ask those people.

BLITZER: But they will argue, these protesters, they're pro-American, too. They love the United States. They just strongly disagree with what Donald Trump has been saying.

PIERSON: Well, I don't know, Wolf. I don't know, Wolf. If you are protesting an American candidate running for the President of the United States, you're not flying any other flag than the United States flag.

BLITZER: Well, that's part of the American tradition that we are allowed protests in this country. PIERSON: It is. We absolutely are, but we don't allow physically

assaulting people. We don't allow defacing property. We don't allow, you know, jumping on police cars, which is something that the left obviously encourages. Look at what happened in Baltimore.

That is not what Donald Trump stands for, and that is not American. And what we saw last night is the true fight that we're facing in this country. It's pro-America versus anti-America.

BLITZER: All right, well, we can -- we can disagree on whether this is anti-America just to be critical of a presidential candidate, because that's the right of all Americans to go out there and protest and --

PIERSON: That was overstepping the boundaries --

BLITZER: Yes.

PIERSON: -- of protesting.

BLITZER: All right, let's talk a little bit about Jeb Bush right now. He gave an exclusive interview to our own Jamie Gangel, the first time he's really spoken up since he dropped out of the Republican presidential contest. Here's a little of that conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEB BUSH (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My personal belief is if Donald Trump is the nominee -- you know, look, my views have been pretty consistent about this -- we'll lose the Senate. And we'll lose the presidency in the landslide, and our country can't afford that.

JAMIE GANGEL, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Do you think the Republican Party should get around him if he's the nominee?

BUSH: I think they should support Ted Cruz.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: All right, your reaction?

PIERSON: Well, this makes perfect sense. There are Bush operatives now working on Senator Cruz's campaign. Senator Cruz comes from the Bush administration, so this makes perfect sense for the establishment to get behind the establishment candidate.

He wants a candidate that's going to take these cookie cutter policies and then spew them to the public, and Mr. Trump doesn't speak in platitudes. He says that, you know, you shouldn't be unpredictable, and you shouldn't be unpredictable unless he wants to go out there and say, no new taxes and then go and raise everyone's taxes.

We have seen politicians time and time again make a ton of campaign promises and keep none of them. And we don't want to be that campaign. BLITZER: All right, you just heard Hillary Clinton, who Donald Trump

may face in the general election, give this interview to Jake Tapper. It'll air later today on his program at 4:00 p.m. Eastern.

She basically dismissed Donald -- what she called Donald Trump's temper tantrums and bullying. She said it's not going to impact her at all.

You heard what she had to say. You're the spokeswoman for the Trump campaign. Go ahead and react.

PIERSON: Well, I think it does bother her, and I think that's why she's already running against Donald Trump because she knows that she's not going to be able to hide behind the gender card that she is playing. She is going to have to face some of the decisions that she's made, whether it's Libya, whether it's Iraq, whether it's Goldman Sachs, whether it's Boko Haram, for that matter.

She does have a record that she's not wanting to run on, and that's why Mr. Trump says the gender card is all she has. She's talking about equal pay. She's talking about abortion. She's talking about women's issues, which don't even fall within the scope of the federal government.

BLITZER: But those are important issues for --

PIERSON: They're very important issues.

BLITZER: -- not only for women but for men as well.

PIERSON: They're very important issues, but those issues don't fall within the scope of the federal government, more importantly, not at the executive level.

BLITZER: The federal government plays a role in all of those issues, as you know, whether legislatively or from the judiciary branch. The federal government plays roles in women's health. That's an important issue for millions and millions of American women.

PIERSON: Well, it's an extremely important issue, but again, these are not issues that should be held at the federal level. We should be empowering states to take on these projects. We see a lot of waste, fraud and abuse in these programs.

BLITZER: That's a constitutional issue that can be --

PIERSON: Right.

BLITZER: -- debated, but right now, the federal government is involved in issues affecting women, including women like you.

PIERSON: But I will tell you right now what's more affecting women, national security, immigration, the economy and jobs. Those are the important things right now to women.

BLITZER: Katrina Pierson, thanks for coming in. PIERSON: Good to be here. Thank you.

BLITZER: Thank you.

Coming up, Donald Trump say Hillary Clinton is playing the woman card. She's now using his own words to her advantage. She trying at least. We'll have details of that and a lot more. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)