Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
Monitoring Group: Two Hundred Killed In Aleppo; Airstrikes On Rebel- Held Areas Resume In Aleppo; Kerry Spoke To Lavrov Over Syria Violence; Violent Protests Erupt At Donald Trump Rally; Donald Trump Speaks to Supporters. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired April 29, 2016 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(HEADLINES)
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani. We are live at CNN London. This is THE WORLD RIGHT NOW.
We begin first with protests at another Donald Trump appearance. The Republican candidate is set to speak in Burlingame, California. We've
already seen scuffles between demonstrators and police outside of a venue in Costa Mesa, California.
Trump rally yesterday where 18,000 supporters were there to cheer on their candidate, Donald Trump. But today these are live images coming to us from
California outside of a venue where a GOP convention is set to take place over the weekend.
As I mentioned yesterday, you probably have seen in our coverage on CNN, there were real instances of violence, bloodied faces, there were arrests
as well yesterday in Costa Mesa, scuffles.
Protesters blocking traffic, many of them saying they are protesting the proposals that Donald Trump is making on immigration specifically.
Again, this is the ground level shot coming to us from Burlingame, California. We will have the very latest from inside of that venue in a
few minutes with our reporter, Jason Carroll who will be joining us live.
Now to the latest out of Syria. "A monstrous disregard for civilian lives by all parties to the conflict," quote/unquote. That is the damning
verdict of the U.N. Human Rights chief about the escalation of violence in Syria.
According to an observer group the death toll in the city of Aleppo alone in just the last week has now passed more than 200 civilians. Remember,
this is supposed to be a cessation of hostilities period.
Senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As disbelief still raged in how air strikes could kill dozens at a hospital
Thursday, it happened again. Another air strike, 1 of 20 that hit rebel- held areas of Aleppo Friday, activists said, slammed into another medical facility.
It is fortunate, but also chilling, that these scene of destruction don't have people in them. Because of the air strikes civilians here are said to
be too scared to go to this and other hospitals. They have been for days, says the manager of the MSF-backed hospital here Thursday.
DR. HAMZEH, MANAGER, AL-QUDS HOSPITAL, ALEPPO: They're not only afraid to go to the hospitals, they are afraid to walk in the street. They are
afraid to get targeted or to be hit in their way to these hospitals.
WALSH: He described the life of Dr. (inaudible), the last pediatrician in Aleppo, one of six medical staff killed in Thursday's strike, seen here
tending to patients. His devotion to his work.
HAMZEH: He said if I get married I want to be here in Aleppo for much time as my wife will be in Turkey and I will have to spend half of my days in
Turkey and the other half in Aleppo.
WALSH: Children were his devotion. This baby brought from the wreckage could have been one of the doctor's patients. Trying to find a tiny vein
for an IV drip. Instead, this scene haunted the day on which the doctor died.
A boy left to tend the corpse of his younger brother, to beg they could change places. This passes for childhood here has done for years. Those
born into the war, you could only hope they may outlive it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Nick Paton Walsh joins us now live from Beirut with more. Can we say that this cessation of hostilities essentially has completely
unraveled? Is it holding anywhere?
[15:05:12]WALSH: Well, it appears to be that is the case on the ground. The question is does that match what we're hearing from, more importantly,
Russian and American diplomats. The complication is the last 24 hours, Russian state media has had sources in it talking about what's called a
regime of silence that is kind of like a mini ceasefire within the cessation of hostilities.
That apparently they claim has been agreed with the Americans around the area of the capital Damascus area and frankly, where the regime may face
more rebel pressure. We understand from U.S. sources that actually the Russians don't want to include Aleppo within that sort of renewed bid at a
ceasefire.
It is a phenomenally complicated situation. It is typical of how we've seen the Russian view on ceasefires, particularly in somewhere like Ukraine
where on the surface there is discussion about peace, but they pursue separately military objectives in other areas.
That seems to be what's happening around Aleppo where Syrian state media are clear they hope potentially there may be some broader operation to
seize the eastern part of the city in the days ahead. It is phenomenally complicated thing.
It is bound to take weeks, if not months. But their rhetoric makes many concerns these renewed airstrikes are a prelude to that. Then we have this
separate diplomacy which frankly is very hard to unravel.
But seems suggest that Moscow is pushing for certain areas to have a renewed bid at cessation of hostilities in it. But, Hala, as you know,
this has been muddied and almost impossible from the start because the U.S. and Russia agree terrorists should not be involved in the cessation of
hostilities.
That includes the al Qaeda affiliate, Al Nusra Front, who fights alongside many rebel groups, who were not considered terrorist. Meaning the Russians
can strike at will often in many places where you would think peace should be in place.
So it is phenomenally complex, but none of this has prevented that increase of violence, 200 dead in the last seven days in Aleppo and a sense of worst
to come.
GORANI: All right, Nick Paton Walsh, thanks very much, our senior international correspondent with the latest there from Beirut.
While Nick was mentioning the diplomats, earlier I spoke to John Kirby, the spokesperson for the U.S. State Department. I asked him what Washington
was tangibly, concretely doing to help stop this bloodshed that's happening in the middle of a cessation of hostilities deal that the U.S. helped
negotiate. This is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KIRBY, SPOKESMAN, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: What we're doing is we're working very, very hard with our Russian counterparts to try to get the
cessation to be restored, quite frankly, in places like Aleppo.
But we're also working to help restore in other places around Syria as well, and what we continue to do is to call for the Russians to use the
influence that we know they have on the Assad regime to get them to do the right thing here. We're certainly aware --
GORANI: You still call it a cessation of hostilities when you're blaming the regime clearly for bombing a children's hospital.
KIRBY: Absolutely. Look, I mean there have been violations of the cessation since the first day it was in place and we knew that there would
be, which is why we set up a task force to co-chair with the Russians to try to analyze data and collect information on the violations so that we
could prevent them from happening in the future.
Nobody likes what is going on in Aleppo. We see it for what it is, which is why the secretary continues to work very hard with the Russians on this.
As a matter of fact, Hala, he was on the phone with Foreign Minister Lavrov today about this very issue.
GORANI: What did he tell him? What is being discussed between Secretary Kerry and Sergey Lavrov to try to come to some situation where a cessation
of hostilities covers Aleppo once again?
KIRBY: Exactly. They spent time talking about that. First of all, we are trying to get some areas around Damascus and Lafakia this weekend to get
the cessation restored. But obviously the focus is not being taken away from Aleppo.
We are very much mindful of what is going on and the secretary has talked to Foreign Minister Lavrov, again today, to urge Russia to use the
influence that they have on Assad, which is unique.
GORANI: Just so we are clear, Secretary Kerry spoke to Sergey Lavrov and said to Sergey Lavrov we would like you to use your influence over the
Assad regime to urge them to stop bombing civilian areas in Aleppo. What was the response from Minister Lavrov?
KIRBY: I won't characterize comments by another foreign leader. But yes, the secretary has continued to make that statement and to urge that
influence and those efforts by Russia.
Again, we're mindful of what happened just yesterday and how fragile this is. But it speaks to a larger effort here in Syria, which is a political
process. That's the right way to end this war.
[15:10:05]GORANI: Right. But at the same time, if you're saying to people watching all over the world that the secretary of state of the United
States is telling his counterpart in Russia please use your influence, and clearly on the ground the regime is continuing to bomb Aleppo.
And unilaterally announcing ceasefires that do not cover Aleppo, then I guess the conclusion could be drawn that the U.S. has no influence in the
matter.
KIRBY: I wouldn't say that at all, Hala. What I would say is we have seen where Russians have -- when they have used their influence effectively,
we've seen how a cessation can work. Obviously, it is fragile and it is not holding in places like Aleppo.
We want to see it. But there were a few weeks there where it was holding pretty much largely throughout to the country with spurious violations here
and there.
Obviously it is much more fragile now and is not holding in places. We've seen when it can work and we've seen where Russian influence can make a
difference.
So one of two things is happening. Either they are exerting that influence and the Assad regime is resisting or they are not exerting that influence.
We want to see them to do is continue use that --
GORANI: Does the U.S. have any powers of persuasion over Russia in terms of the influence it's asserting or not over the Assad regime? Because it
look likes on the ground the regime is doing whatever it wants regardless of any cessation of hostilities.
KIRBY: The Russians themselves have signed up to not just one but three communiques on this, as well as the U.N. Security Council resolution. They
have signed up themselves to try and find a peaceful political way through this conflict to end the war.
GORANI: You are saying the Russians have agreed and signed up to three communiques. Would you say that they are not abiding, that they are not
keeping the promises they've made previously?
KIRBY: They have abided by their commitments in the three communiques and under the U.N. Security Council resolution. Their military activity has
been greatly reduced. And by and large, the strikes that they are conducting are in keeping with the cessation of hostilities.
In other words, they're going after groups that are allowed to be targeted, ISIL and al Nusra in Syria. But we also know that they have a special
relationship with Assad that no other nation has.
They have a long-term military presence in Syria and the Assad regime cares what Moscow thinks in ways that it doesn't care about other countries.
GORANI: When is the next time Secretary Kerry is going to speak with his counterpart? What tangible measure -- because I think what people are
saying right now, especially those who live in the Middle East, is this all the U.S. can do? Can it just issue, say it's outraged and make one phone
call to Sergey Lavrov and hope everything will get better after that?
KIRBY: It is not about hope and making phone calls and thinking that's going to solve all the problems. But the relationship the secretary has
with Foreign Minister Lavrov is important and it is a significant conduit to try to get to a better outcome in Syria.
As for what we are doing, it was the United States, Secretary Kerry in particular, who led efforts the stand up the international Syria support
group, which now consists of more than 20 entities, nations and international organizations that are coming together that have created
these communiques that have actually helped foster what became a U.N. Security Council resolution on Syria and on codifying this political
process.
The United States is the leader of that effort and we'll continue to use our leadership in the ways most effective to try to get to the right
outcome here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: That was John Kirby, U.S. State Department spokesperson on the latest event out of Syria.
But back to U.S. politics, protesters are out, police are at the ready. These are live images from California. U.S. presidential candidate, Donald
Trump is due to speak at any minute at a Republican convention in California, headlining a lunch time event there.
As you can see there is a lot of security outside the venue. Tight. Demonstrators are gathering and authorities want to avoid a repeat clearly
of some pretty shocking scenes outside a Trump rally last night.
By the way, this is video from just a few minutes ago. Donald Trump exiting his motorcade. You can see him there, walking across a block to
off street to a way inside the venue.
It appears as though he might have exited that motorcade a little bit early, perhaps a way to avoid some of the protesters gathered outside of
that venue location.
Let's look at some of the aerial video we have of Donald Trump here. Clearly looks like an unplanned entry into the venue, scrambling over this
sort of grassy bank there, separating the two thoroughfare. There he is.
You can see him with his red tie there flipped over his right shoulder and one of his aides puts it right back down. He's going through the back way,
as I understand it, the venue, perhaps in an effort to avoid the protesters gathered outside.
[15:15:04]This is a GOP convention in California. By the way, it is important for all of the candidates to make an appearance. Donald Trump
will be there. It is currently 15 minutes past noon California time.
John Kasich will be appearing this evening. And Ted Cruz and his running mate, Carly Fiorina, will be appearing tomorrow. Clearly going in through
the back door. Donald Trump
All right. We will get back to that, of course, a little bit later. But for now, let's tell you about what happened in Costa Mesa, California where
all those clashes took place in the city near Los Angeles where Donald Trump was holding a rally. Here's Phil Mattingly with that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chaos breaking out outside of a California Donald Trump rally last night. With hundreds of protestors
taking to the streets, clashing with drivers, smashing windows, and attempting to roll over cars. Facing off with Trump supporters.
This fight leaving this Trump fan bloodied and bandaged.
Police on horseback, struggling to contain the demonstrators.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to win, win, win!
MATTINGLY: Inside, Donald Trump riling up a massive crowd.
TRUMP: Look at the size of this place.
MATTINGLY: Taking aim at his rivals.
TRUMP: Lyin' Ted Cruz. We know Lyin' Ted. He's crooked as you can be. Crooked Hillary. You ever see a guy eat like him?
MATTINGLY: And keeping his eye on next Tuesday's high-stakes primary in Indiana.
TRUMP: The big poll is going to be on Tuesday in Indiana, but I was all over the state today with Bobby Knight, and I love Bobby Knight, and they
love Bobby Knight, and let's see what happens.
MATTINGLY: Indiana's biggest paper blasting Trump on Thursday calling the GOP frontrunner, quote, "a danger to the United States and to the world."
As millions of dollars and dozens of ads continue to flood the state, Ted Cruz mincing no words on his view of the high stakes there.
SENATOR TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is the common sense and good judgment of the Hoosier state that is the one thing that stands
between us and plunging over the cliff.
MATTINGLY: Even as top GOP figures start warming to the idea of Trump as the nominee.
SENATOR BOB CORKER (R), TENNESSEE: Generally speaking, I like what he had to say.
MATTINGLY: This, as former House Speaker John Boehner condemned Trump's main rival, Ted Cruz, at a college forum with the harshest words yet.
JOHN BOEHNER, FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: Lucifer in the flesh. I get along with almost everybody, but I've never worked with a more miserable son of a
(inaudible) --
MATTINGLY: Cruz firing back using Boehner's disdain to try and bolster his case.
CRUZ: If you're happy with John Boehner, speaker of the House, and you want a president like John Boehner, Donald Trump is your man.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: All right, that was Ted Cruz at the end of that Phil Mattingly report, but let's show you once again live images coming to us from
California outside of that GOP convention, an event that runs from Friday over the weekend.
Donald Trump entered the building through the back door just a few minutes ago. You could tell that it was kind of an unplanned exit from his
motorcade. He in fact had to cross on foot a grassy embankment in order to make it inside of that particular building through the back way.
John Kasich is going to appear tonight so this is a Republican event in California. Ted Cruz and Carly Fiorina his running mate will also be
appearing, that will be tomorrow.
But of course this is happening a day after those very violent protests in Costa Mesa, California at a Trump rally where protesters there got into
some violent scuffles with Trump supporters.
Many of them later saying they were there to protest specifically Trump's proposals on immigration, 18,000 Trump supporters showed up to that
particular event and those protesters certainly -- their appearance and what ended up transpiring there worrying authorities enough.
That today they are really trying to keep a lid on the protests and gatherings taking place outside of this Republican event in California as
we speak. These are live images on the left and live aerial images on the right.
We'll have a lot more from California and what's happening there at those GOP events and what's happening around those Trump appearances a little bit
later.
We're also keeping our eye on Indiana now. That state holds a primary Tuesday that many consider a must-win for Ted Cruz. The Republican
candidate picked up a key endorsement today from Indiana's governor. But the governor also offered praise for Donald Trump. Much more from the
campaign trail ahead in the program.
A quick break here on CNN. When we come back, 2016 has been a bad year for South African President, Jacob Zuma, and it could get a whole lot worse.
We'll show you why in a few minutes.
[15:20:08]Plus, looting, food shortages, drought and now blackouts. The list of Venezuela's problems continues to grow. We hear from the people.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back. Let's go now back to Burlingame, California. We've been showing you some pretty dramatic aerial live images of protesters
gathered outside the GOP convention.
You remember some of the violence that happened not too far from there in Costa Mesa, California outside a Trump rally yesterday. CNN producer, Tom
LoBianco is outside the venue as well. What are you seeing, Tom, right now?
TOM LOBIANCO, CNN POLITICS REPORTER (via telephone): right now the protesters are splitting up. Most of them had been at the front of the
building but when Trump came in through the back entrance, they're splitting up and starting to walk to the back.
A lot of people with Mexican flags, Mexican flag colors and Trump pinatas. I'd say there is a few hundred. I haven't seen the estimate of the crowd
officially. Nothing violent yet, but a lot of people here, very rowdy.
GORANI: Of course it became violent yesterday at another Trump rally. What's the security? What's the police presence like there?
LOBIANCO: Well, so what we saw earlier was when the police set up a barricade, a way to get them off the highway for the Trump motorcade, human
protesters set up a line where they lock arms blockading the road.
Police set up their own line ahead of them were there to be a confrontation. There was no confrontation. There is a side group set up,
one in a parking lot, instead more police showed up at another dozen or so police cars showed up and set up a diversion ahead of the blockade and sent
him down -- sent the Trump motorcade down a back entrance of the Hyatt.
GORANI: So Donald Trump essentially this was completely unplanned. Right? Presumably you wanted to drive up to the front of the building, exit his
motorcade and go through the front door, but he had to go through the back entrance and in fact we saw him sort of awkwardly walk across a grassy
embankment. Was that to avoid the protesters?
LOBIANCO: Yes. I did not see the grassy embankment myself, but I saw he was definitely diverted from the front of this building. What happened
after he got in there, police moved back from their barricade they set up and protesters quickly flooded over the barricade tearing down the aluminum
barricade, running to the front.
A line of police there immediately in front of the Hyatt entrance and that's where we are right now. About half the protesters are still out
front, the other half headed to the back.
GORANI: Headed to the back where Donald Trump, the entrance Donald Trump used just a few minutes ago. Are they trying to get in, Tom?
[15:25:07]Because from the images I'm seeing, aerial images I've seen, it looks like they're trying to force their way in. Is that the case?
LOBIANCO: I think so. Absolutely. Looks like they're definitely trying to get in. We had a very interesting incident earlier today when a
protester showed up inside of the hotel with a bull horn chanting "dump Trump."
She disrupted the convention and she was escorted out. There's no violence, no confrontation. No major confrontation. I talked to her a
little bit later, her name is Nancy.
She told me she rented a room inside the hotel so she was stationed inside the hotel ready for this when she came out and started chanting in her bull
horn.
GORANI: But is the police at the door of that Hyatt regency where this is all taking place sort of pushing back protesters? What's going on there?
LOBIANCO: They were earlier. That happened earlier. Say maybe 15, 20 minutes ago. Then when they were getting ready for Trump to appear they
did push back some protesters, I haven't seen anything of major violence yet, but a few did fall over as they were being pushed back as they cleared
the entrance.
GORANI: Who are the -- when you speak to them, who are these protesters? What do they tell you when you ask them what they are doing there?
LOBIANCO: Well, it's a pretty broad cross section. Lot of Mexican- Americans here, I see a lot of flags here. A broad cross section of liberal protesters. One thing they're most concerned about are blockades.
They're not what you call professional protesters. You think you see more than a handful of what you see at a lot of protests.
GORANI: Are there any Trump supporters out there? Could that lead to clashes or is that group of people at the door of the Hyatt hotel mainly
anti-Trump protesters at this stage?
LOBIANCO: We did see one Trump supporter come through here. He was dressed as Trump impersonator. I did not get a chance to talk to him but
he was quickly surrounded by anti-Trump protesters. He was wearing a blue blazer and a red "Make America great again" Trump hat.
He actually had -- he was swarmed by media and protesters who were shouting at him. He actually got up to the hedges outside the hotel and had to be
pulled over the hedges by the police and pulled away. It didn't look like there was any violence, but it was getting loud, no doubt about that.
GORANI: All right, Tom LoBianco, our politics reporter, stand by. We'll get back to you in a moment. Scottie Nell Hughes is a Trump supporter and
she joins us now live. Are you in Washington?
SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I am. I'm watching this video very closely. This is not very surprising what's happening out in California.
We knew the state is very polarized. They're very organized. This state is known for grassroots when it comes to protests.
They have the edges already ready to go on any sort of political issue and they just fill in the people. That's kind of what we're seeing right here.
What's really scary to me about this is there are people that are trying to get to this GOP convention in California where Mr. Trump is scheduled to
speak.
His speech has now been delayed. These folks are either in fear of trying to get to hear Mr. Donald Trump or to the other people attending. It is
almost like their rights are being infringed upon because they are not able to get in.
All they want to do is hear potential candidate nominees for the republic that they get to vote on for the California primary and those aren't being
able to happen right now because of these protesters.
GORANI: But it seems like Donald Trump is attracting this kind ever activity. It is not the first time we've seen violence and protests and
people who say they're outraged at some of these proposals. In the case of these California protests, some of his anti-immigration proposals, for
instance.
What is it about this campaign that you think leads to these types of incidents? Because no other campaign is dealing with anything like this at
all.
HUGHES: Well, because Mr. Trump is offering some solutions that we've never heard of problems that Americans are facing. He is not willing to
sugar coat it like politicians have been having. That's given folks emotions on both sides.
Last night as we saw in California, you might have had a couple hundred outside violently protesting, jumping on police cars, causing damage. But
inside tens of thousands of people were there calmly, peacefully wanting to just hear the words of possibly who they might support as their candidate
for president.
[15:30:00]
GORANI: Donald Trump sometimes encourages this type of thing. He promises to pay legal bills of some of his supporters who you know punch anti-trump
protesters. Is it that - is there something in his rhetoric that is leading some of this - some of these incidents to actually happen that is creating
this environment?
HUGHES: I can guarantee that Mr. Trump has said nothing to the effect of what we are seeing right now outside this -- California right now.
He's said nothing that would encourage people to jump on law enforcement vehicles and show disrespect to taxpayer funded property like a police car
or parks or trees or everything that was destroyed. Or to act in any way violent or without law.
Nothing Mr. Trump has said in any way could encourage the amount of arrests and the things that we are seeing happening. You know last night it broke
my heart to see the picture of the gentleman in a Trump t-shirt, his head covered in blood because somebody had bashed his face in. That's not what
the political process is supposed to be. You're allowed to gather. You have the right to gather. To protest. But it is your right to do it peacefully,
and not disturb the rights of others.
This right here, what these folks don't realize is their actions right now only encourage people and realize that we have a problem in America today
and the squeaky wheel right now is trying to get the most attention. But I think this will once again backfire, why people are going to want to back
up Mr. Trump when he says that we need to get hold of some of the issues that are happening in America today that the politically correct society
and politicians have allowed to amass into this problem right here.
GORANI: You don't think any of what Donald trump says is inflammatory on any level that might lead - that might foster an environment where on both
sides there is this type of violence?
HUGHES: But you're not seeing the violence from the Trump protestors - the pro-Trump people. You're not seeing - you're seeing very peaceful
organizations. The folks that we're seeing that are causing trouble within the Trump rallies are usually those on the outside. Many cases those people
have been paid to come in there and create disruption and to show there isn't peace. But there is actually a very good environment, a good family
that is part of the pro-Trump movement and these folks out here are the exact opposite. Nothing you've ever seen, you know even before in the
actions of the Tea Party when the Tea Party would gather, they would never destroy public property like this. They would never disrespect law
enforcement. This right here, there is no --
GORANI: -- you're saying they are paid protesters?
HUGHES: We have felt -- in the past there's been paid protesters. We found the streets of Chicago. We saw that moveon.org did pay some of the
organizations and you did see moveon.org actually organize and sent out fundraising e-mails (inaudible) about you know that they shut down the
Trump rally in Chicago.
So yes, there are paid protesters. Now in this case we'll have to wait and see after we go through the folks and we look at records of people that are
arrested for this. But yes, this is highly organized through social media. These folks know how to protest in California. We've seen these riots
before in other cases, other examples. And just because they are happening doesn't mean they are right.
I would have a lot more respect for these folks if they had a problem with Mr. Trump's policy if they were doing it peacefully, if they were doing it
respectfully. But what you are seeing right here, is them sitting here trying to barge into doors, trying to break in, sitting here and trying to
threaten violence, keep the people that want to go in there and just to listen to a candidate. They might not necessarily be supporters of Mr.
Trump. They just want to go in there to the convention. And their rights are being infringed by these folks right here. This is not right and I
don't see how you can in any way blame a candidate - any candidate for actions that are happening on the outside. That are acting opposite of what
Mr. Trump has ever said.
GORANI: And Scotty, by the way, I just want to tell our viewers, that what they're seeing there is a giant banner that some of these protesters have
unfurled outside of the Hyatt Hotel that reads "Dump Dumb Trump." This is written in red letters over a big white banner. Were you able to see some
of the video of Donald Trump who was essentially had to change his plans entirely, go through the back door, he had to sort of awkwardly climb over
a grassy embankment. What went through your mind when you saw Donald Trump having to do that to avoid protesters?
HUGHES: Well first of all I was quite impressed that he could do that kind of jump. I mean I used to be in (inaudible) and I don't think I could even
have done that hurdle. So that definitely is some agility to him.
But you have to realize for all this threat of violence and all these folks that are saying the Trump people are so violent, they are so threatening.
There's a reason why the only candidate on the Republican side right now is Mr. Trump that has secret service protection and they are working very hard
to keep him safe as threats are coming out against him, his family, his surrogates, those of us that support him, every day. And these are threats
of violence, these aren't just nice - you know not just words, these are actually actions that people are threatening. And we actually - you saw a
man that was arrested last week because he threatened to bomb one of the Trump rallies. These are actions against folks who just want to be part of
the political process. The folks that want to take violent against us.
So you know the fact that they had to disrupt the motorcade right there, you know Secret Service is really good at making do with the problems that
are going on. They can definitely work and be flexible. But I guarantee that this is not exactly how they had it planned. And hopefully the folks
will realize this is going to backfire on them. Because once again this just shows the rest of America that we have a problem in this country that
needs to be solved and Mr. Trump -- the things that he's saying, the words that he's saying are resonating.
GORANI: But what do you make of the fact that - and I know that you're saying that this violence is coming from the protesters and directed at
Trump supporters. But you have a lot of Trump supporters online who just sort of organize themselves.
[15:35:07]
GORANI: I don't know if you saw recently there was an article on Melania Trump that was featured in "GQ Magazine." The reporter in that magazine has
been the target of unbelievable anti-Semitic insults and threats from people who say - who declare themselves to be Trump supporters. Is there a
problem there among Trump supporters within that regard that they will just sort of use online abuse and sort of lynch mob mentality to go after
reporters they don't agree with?
HUGHES: Well, first of all, it is not just Mr. Trump. That it is never acceptable. Even if you don't agree with somebody, you don't ever threaten
anything like that. And what is happening against that reporter is horrible and I hate to think it's any of the supporters of Mr. Trump that
are that passionate. But that just shows how high the level of passion is that has gotten involved.
But that rhetoric is happening across the board. It's happening from Hillary Clinton supporters, Bernie Sanders supporters, Ted Cruz, Kasich not
so much just because there's not very many of them, and from Trump supporters. And that is never acceptable, just like violence is never
acceptable. That hurts the process and that allows -- that's what causes people to stay away from it and not get involved. And that's not how our
founding fathers -- that's not why men and women go off to war so we can act like children here at home and threaten each other and send each other
threats. That's not what is supposed to be happening here.
So no, I would never -- I never encouraged that on my own personal social media and I don't -- I try my best to not be friends with anybody that
would do that to someone else. But it is happening across the board. And like I said, the only person right now that has justified secret service
protection is Mr. Trump so it is obvious who the real threat -- it is not coming from his own crowd. It is coming against.
GORANI: All right, Scottie Nell Hughes, thanks very much for joining us from Washington. A Trump supporter there with her thoughts on what's going
on in California today, as well as some of those protests yesterday in Costa Mesa, as well. Thank you very much, Scottie Nell Hughes.
Tom Lobianco, politics reporter is still with us. He's outside the venue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So Tom, I was looking at some of those aerial images coming to us from outside that Hyatt hotel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: What's the latest? Is the crowd swelling? Is it sort of becoming more passionate out there? What's going on?
TOM LOBIANCO, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yes, at this point the protesters have really formed around the parking garage on the side of the building. There
is a drum line over there. They're hanging a banner off the side of an overpass leading to the garage from the hotel that says "Dump Trump." There
are pinatas. Most of it is focused around this side.
(Inaudible) confused as to where exactly he is or wherever he is coming out. We did hear earlier some chanting "get him out" "get him out" that was
a popular chant. It's pretty clear now in front of the Hyatt at this point, it's - it kind of - it seems to be in a holding pattern while they wait for
him to speak and exit.
GORANI: And by the way that speech has been delayed. We were showing our viewers some live images coming to us from inside that California GOP
convention.
By the way I was speaking with a Trump supporter, Scottie Nell Hughes. She was essentially questioning whether or not these protesters were there
spontaneously at all, that some of these protesters might be paid. Is that something that you've been able to verify at all?
LOBIANCO: I have not seen that or been able to confirm that. I don't know about that. I do know that there are a lot of people here. I have not seen
I have to admit-- I've seen -- here's what I have seen. I've seen a lot of Hispanic protestors, lots of Mexican-Americans (inaudible). Again we are
in northern California of course and I've seen people have black lives matter protesters out here. And you can hear this drum line coming right
now. The drum line is playing right now (inaudible) like it hot earlier. (Inaudible).
It has been -- we haven't seen any violence yet although the closest they really came is when that (inaudible) a Trump supporter -- white male came
through in the blazer and the red Trump hat, was being yelled at a lot by protesters formed. And he had to be pulled away over sort of hedges here
outside the Hyatt by the police to get him in.
GORANI: And this was a Trump supporter who was pulled away or --
LOBIANCO: Yes.
GORANI: -- or an anti-Trump protesters?
LOBIANCO: He was a Trump supporter who was surrounded by anti-Trump protesters and he was pulled over the hedges. The protesters had formed
around him. Outside there is a bank of hedges that surround the entrance. That was sort of an impromptu barrier where the protests pass through the
entrance to the hotel here. And they had swarmed around the front of that and were all shouting at each other and eventually the police you know
approached the area and slipped him a hand and he got lifted over the hedges.
[15:50:
GORANI: So there have been no instances of violence right now so far outside of this particular event? Because of course as we were telling our
viewers yesterday outside of a Trump rally, we saw some pretty serious incidents and pretty shocking images with sort of people with bloodied
faces and arrests were made, et cetera, et cetera. Has this happened today?
LOBIANCO: I haven't seen any. That doesn't mean that they haven't had but I haven't seen any, I haven't seen any reports, nothing on the scale of what
happened yesterday. It's been pretty quiet. I think it usually happens when we have a Trump supporter clashing with anti-Trump protesters. To be frank,
I've asked a lot of Trump supporters out here. I've seen few people with Trump campaign signs but it is pretty quiet.
Now of course if you're a Trump supporter it is almost a guarantee you are going to be inside the hotel at the Republican convention. And that's where
the police still have the entrance to the Hyatt blocked off right now. The crowd of protesters you can probably hear them in the background right now
they are walking back toward the entrance of the hotel from this side entrance. You know again I've gotten (inaudible). So the crowd has been
moving periodically throughout the morning out here.
GORANI: And we're seeing a lot of Mexican flags there. I mean is this essentially as we heard yesterday from protesters a protest against Donald
Trump's proposals on immigration, is that what's making these protesters so angry?
LOBIANCO: It really - the language I've seen here -- there is a picture on one that has a picture of Trump on his hat it says "Make America Hate
Again." There is a lot of number of curse words on some of the signs. And I haven't seen - you know it seems to be a broad swath. It is across the
board.
The one thing I've seen a lot, is - here's a woman walking in right now signing Islamaphobia. With a sign that says "your fear and ignorance are
showing." It's really across the board. You know a real mark. But definitely there's - I mean his comments about the law, immigration are
definitely a key part of that.
GORANI: How much police presence is there right now? Because I'm sure they are keen to avoid what happened yesterday.
LOBIANCO: Well, there is quite a few police out here. You know earlier when everyone was waiting for him to show up, they had a blockade set up at the
highway exit off 101. And what they were doing was they were diverting traffic away and the protesters had set up actually two lines at that side,
human chains where they stood on the ground and they locked arms inside these PVC pipes and form a human road block. And layered between them were
lines with police.
So if you go about 30 feet there would be a line of protesters blocking the road. Then another 30 feet there'd be a line of police. You know no
confrontations between them. Everything was static. But you did see, I'd say maybe about 15 to 20 minutes before Trump arrived here where his
motorcade showed up, you saw a large number of police jog over to the front of the Hyatt, clear out the entrance. There had been a lot of protesters
who had stormed the entrance. They were pushed backwards. Some of them did fall over, and they were cleared, they were pushed back so that a clear way
was made there.
And then more police cars. I would say about a dozen police cars -- a dozen more showed up at that highway blockade and cleared off -- they cleared off
traffic a little bit further. Now they had a side rail that was set up that looked like it was set up through a parking lot over here outside of one of
the restaurants over here and it looked like they might try to bring his motorcade through there and around this human road block. That did not
happen. Instead of course what they did was they brought him off the highway and diverted well ahead of the protesters down that - down that
side road.
GORANI: All right, Tom Lobianco, our politics reporter there on the scene, thanks very much. "Dump Dumb Trump," "Mr. Hate, Leave Our State." Just two
of the slogans that anti-Trump protesters right now are using. They are outside of this big convention hall in Burlingame, California, they are
protesting Donald Trump, they are protesting many of his proposals, especially those related to immigration. It is a weekend long event.
[15:45:10]
GORANI: It's not just Donald Trump there that was meant to headline a lunchtime event that was meant to start 45 minutes ago. That's been delayed
because of these protests but also John Kasich and Ted Cruz. But interestingly, because of what's going on outside of the Hyatt Regency
hotel, Donald Trump's motorcade had to circle the building, go to the back and then find their way -- just hop over this sort of grassy patch and go
in through the back entrance.
So clearly his initial plan of driving up with his motorcade to the front entrance and making his way to that stage with a group of GOP members there
having lunch. That is not happening right now. In fact, that has been delayed. These are images that came in to us about 20, 25 minutes ago.
Donald Trump, you see him there, with the red tie.
Tom Fuentes, our law enforcement analyst, is joining us on the line. So Tom, what do you make of what's going on right now outside of that
convention hall, outside of that hotel? Tom Fuentes, can you hear me?
LOBIANCO: Yes (inaudible).
GORANI: OK, Tom Lobianco, just one moment, just trying to get Tom Fuentes on the line. Tom Fuentes can you hear me?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I hear you can you hear me?
GORANI: Oh yes. I was just asking you, Tom. Thanks for being with us. What are some of the - I mean what is law enforcement's plan in situations like
these? Because it did sort of degenerate yesterday in Costa Mesa.
FUENTES: Yes, it did and it appeared for a while to degenerate here in Burlingame, California. But their plan should be to try to keep the
protesters out of the building, number one, away from Trump supporters, if they're there, and prevent them from doing damage to any private or public
property, including what we saw last night, the smashing of police cars and throwing rocks at passing motorists.
So there needs to be enough law enforcement on the scene to keep them from doing all of these things which would have a negative outcome. But it
appeared that for a while they let them get right to the front doors and actually block all of the front and side entrances to this hotel complex.
And to me, they should not have been allowed to get that close to be able to do something like that.
GORANI: Yes, because according to our reporter, they're actually right at the entrance of the hotel Tom.
FUENTES: Exactly. I mean you have other people that aren't interested in the convention that are residents coming and going from the hotel,
tourists, business people. And you know to prevent them from having access or -- in or out of that hotel just because they want a protest, it isn't
fair to them either. So this is more than just expressing you know their American freedom of speech right. But when they're trying to obstruct the
business of that hotel and block the roads and sidewalks near that hotel, it's gone a little bit too far. The police need to try and keep a handle on
this.
GORANI: And this is really inflaming passions. I mean there is really no other candidate that is seeing sort of incidents like these wherever he or
she goes. What has been the challenge of law enforcement and specifically there? Because you also have this secret service accompanying Donald Trump.
FUENTES: The secret service is there to merely protect the candidates who are you know seeking the Presidency of the United States. They're not there
for crowd control or the greater security interests of the hotel. That's up to local law enforcement, the private security hired by the hotel or hired
by the California Republican Party who are holding this convention. So that's not really secret service responsibility. But they need to try to
allow protests and peacefully express you know their demonstration, but not allow them to do damage or block off the business of that hotel or go too
far. And that's where the problem comes in. They have to balance their right to protest with the right of other people to go about their business
in and out of that hotel.
GORANI: All right, Tom Fuentes, our senior law enforcement analyst and former FBI Assistant Director, thanks very much. It doesn't appear as
though there was any violence, thankfully in Burlingame, California right now. However, this has led to some major changes in the planned schedule
for Donald Trump.
First of all, he is not addressing a lunch time crowd right now inside the Hyatt Regency hotel at this GOP convention as planned. And also, he had to
go all the way to the back door, his motorcade, he had to sort of climb awkwardly over a grassy embankment, a grassy patch there between two major
thoroughfare in order to make his way inside of that hotel. We don't know where he is inside the building right now exactly but there is an
expectation that at some point he's going to make his way to that podium and address the crowd and we will of course bring you that speech live.
[15:50:05]
GORANI: All right, Steven Collinson is joining me now from Washington. I mean this is remarkable. I don't know if I've ever seen anything like this
in any political campaign.
STEVEN COLLINSON, SENIOR ENTERPRISE REPORTER, CNN POLITICS: That's right Hala, I think it is a sign of the passions of this most unorthodox
presidential campaign have incited. You know when you have a candidate like Donald Trump who is raising questions about immigration, questions that
sometimes touch upon race, you're sort of touching at the fault lines of American society and the whole political environment. And you know he --
when he talks about immigration, for example, he doesn't just rile up his own supporters, make them very enthusiastic. He brings out people that are
opposed to Donald Trump, that feel equally passionately on the other side. So I think there this is perhaps a sign of what we might be able to expect.
We might see organized protests against Donald Trump if he becomes the presidential nominee and we're looking, after all, at a campaign possibly
between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump for the presidency of the United States. Both of these people are candidates who incite great passion and
devotion and loyalty among their supporters, but equally negative feelings against people that despise them and really dislike them. And I think
perhaps this is perhaps a worrying sign going forward as we look towards the particularly the Republican Convention in July in Cleveland, Hala.
GORANI: And by the way, California holds its primary on the 7th of June and is an extremely important state for both Democrats and Republican.
COLLINSON: Right. It is the biggest state actually in the election on the republican side, for instance, it has 172 delegates. Normally California
being at the end of the process doesn't really get much of a look. And that's another reason why there is so much interest and so much political
passion being aroused, because it could be decisive this time, particularly in the Republican contest. And beginning of June it could be the place
where Donald Trump goes over the 1,237 delegates he - needs to win a convention vote and claim the nomination. It could be the place where the
Donald Trump campaign finally hits the buffer. So it's going to be you know a couple of months now of really inflamed political action in California.
And California's a state, also, that has a real history of organized political process. So there are very active political networks in
California. Most often they are active in local politics but we can see them come to a head in this presidential campaign Hala. So it's going to be
a tense and interesting time I think.
GORANI: But Steven, what does this do to his campaign? I mean the fact that he brings out - or that he -- I mean that his campaign, that his rhetoric,
that what he says, that what his supporters stand for, is generating this type of protest? Does it hurt him or does it help him? Or does it - I mean
as we've seen in the past, nothing seems to hurt him. Right? I mean everything seems to embolden his supporters.
COLLINSON: That's true. But hitherto we've been talking about a primary campaign which is a much smaller electorate. You don't need as many voters
to win a nomination. Voters of the nomination are typically quite engaged activist voters who are a small percentage of the population as a whole.
When you go into a national election you have to win over voters in the middle who are not particularly politically engaged. And I think there is a
chance people see these scenes and they associate them with Donald Trump, whether it's his fault or not, and say this is exactly the kind of reason
we don't support Donald Trump and I think it could hurt his campaign in a national campaign. And it will allow Hillary Clinton to turn around and
say, look, this is what you are voting for if you vote for Donald Trump. You're voting for social discord, you're voting for violence, you're voting
for protests. And it just proves that Donald Trump is not qualified to be President of the United States. And he would find it impossible from the
democratic point of view to bring the country together, to unite the country after a general election which is one of the first tasks a new
President faces when they take office.
GORANI: Right. And as you are mentioning in a general election it is an entirely different set of questions that you have to answer and an entirely
different set of challenges for any general election candidate. Could this be something that Hillary Clinton now points to and says, look, wherever he
goes, more and more this is what follows him?
COLLINSON: Oh, definitely. The Clinton campaign will use this as a sign that Donald Trump is a divider, that he's tearing apart the political
fabric of the country, that he could never bring the country together after a divisive -- what is going to be a very divisive general election after a
volatile and unpredictable primary season. That is exactly what Hillary Clinton will say. She will --
GORANI: But Trump supporters -- sorry to jump in Steven. A Trump supporter, Scottie Nell Hughes, just minutes ago told me this is because Donald Trump
says it like it is. He's not politically correct and that's why these protesters are coming out, because essentially, paraphrasing her, they just
can't handle the truth. You're going to have on his side, people are saying that.
COLLINSON: Oh, totally and that in some ways blaming all of this on Donald Trump, he may have said things been, but that doesn't necessarily mean
people should go out and create violence. They should use their right to protest that they have enshrined in the U.S. Constitution. But turning it
into a violent protest is perhaps another thing and that is what the Trump supporters will say.
[15:55:08]
I think it does allow though Hillary Clinton to move towards the middle, the political middle and reclaim that ground. And that's where general
elections are won in the United States.
GORANI: And Indiana is the next big contest as well. That's going to be an important one for Donald Trump.
COLLINSON: Definitely. That's on Tuesday. And if Donald Trump wins Indiana it becomes much more likely that he's going to get by the end of June to
that 1,237 delegates that he needs to win the nomination. So it is a huge night particularly for Ted Cruz who is the only person who can basically
beat Donald Trump in Indiana according to the polls.
You've seen Ted Cruz sort of throw everything at the wall in Indiana on a desperate last-ditch attempt to try and beat Donald Trump. He named Carly
Fiorina as his potential running mate, vice presidential running mate the other day. He did a deal with John Kasich the other Republican in this
race, to try and stop Donald Trump winning Indiana.
Indiana really is going to be a huge night on Tuesday. If Donald Trump wins there, it looks more and more likely that he can get to that 1,237 number
without going to a contested convention, which would make him the presidential nominee.
GORANI: All right. And we know how a contested convention would work with many rounds of voting, and then there you would have some horse trading,
some behind-closed-doors bargaining. That would certainly not be a clean- cut scenario for the nomination. Steven Collinson, thanks very much.
Just to recap for our viewers what's happening in California outside of the Hyatt Regency hotel, there is a Republican convention going on there but
several hundred protesters are blocking the door, the entrance, to that hotel. That is where that convention is unfolding.
Donald Trump was meant to have already started giving his speech to a lunch time crowd inside of that venue. That has been delayed because the
protesters have changed all of these plans. We saw them just a few minutes ago, instead of driving right up to the main entrance of the hotel, having
to circle to the back. We saw his motorcade stop at an awkward spot. The group of individuals, including the candidate Donald Trump, had to exit a
little bit and then sort of climb over a grassy patch and go in through the back door.
Now from what I understand, I believe Donald Trump's speech was supposed to start a few minutes ago, might be actually making his way to the podium.
And there he is. Let's listen in to Donald Trump.
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hello, everybody. Thank you very much. Wow. So nice. That was not the easiest entrance I've
ever made. My wife called, she said there are helicopters following you and we did -- then we went under a fence and through a fence and -- oh, boy.
Felt like I was crossing the border, actually. You know? It's true. I was crossing the border. But I got here. They said, Mr. Trump, it would be
really much easier, sir, if you just didn't speak today and just left and go back immediately to Indiana. And I said, you know? We can't let these
people down. Right? Do we agree? We can't do it. But I appreciate it. But it was fun. It was a little different. That was a different kind of a
thing.
So here's "The Washington Post" today, the time has come to admit that Republican voters want Donald Trump as their nominee." you see that? Chris,
good writer. Good writer. That's pretty good. So you know, we're making amazing progress all over. It's been incredible.
Last night, as you know, we had 31,000 people. It was -- and by the way, no protesters inside. I saw protests this morning but there were no protesters
inside. We had 31,000 people and it was just like rockin'. And everybody loved it. Was anybody there last night? It was so incredible. We're pretty
far away, but I'll tell you what, it was just an incredible evening.
So what's happened is, we started this journey on June 16th, and it was all about trade, because we make the worst trade deals, probably ever in the
history of any country. And then it got down to other things that I talked about. I talked about illegal immigration, which was a very important
subject, and it has been and because of the fact that I brought it up, now people are talking about it. Now they aren't talking about it the way I do.
We got last week, as you know, the border patrol, 16,500 agents, border patrol agents, who are phenomenal people who want to do their jobs, they're
told to stand back. Stand back. They're sending there these great looking people, strong, in shape, all of the best equipment, and they're told to
stand back, just let everybody come right through the border. And they endorsed me. 16,500. They have never endorsed a Presidential candidate. [
applause ]
And then Sheriff Joe as you know from Arizona endorsed Trump. And he knows, he knows what he's doing, he really knows. But we have had so many
incredible endorsements and now they're coming. And I'll tell you, over the last two weeks and it took place really even before that but people see
what's happening.
END
