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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
State of Indiana Votes in Primary Tomorrow; Ted Cruz Encountered A Handful of Hecklers Holding Trump Signs. Aired 8-8:30p ET
Aired May 2, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:10] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And good evening to you. This time, five years ago the world was absorbing the news that Osama bin Laden finally had been caught and killed in a U.S. mission nearly years ten years after the 9/11 terror attacks.
Thirty minutes from now, you will get details you have never heard before about that very night. CNN's Peter Bergen got unprecedented access to the White House and talked about the mission with President Obama. Stay tuned for "AC 360" special. We got him, President Obama, bin Laden and the future of the war on terror. That's in half an hour right here.
But first, the nation's current hopes and in some cases he has fears are all focus on one place, the American heartland. Tonight, the state of Indiana vote in its primary tomorrow. And Donald Trump says as far as he is concerned if he wins there, it's over. The latest NBC/"Wall Street Journal" Marist poll shows him leading Ted Cruz 49 percent to 34.
The Democratic race, much tighter, Hillary Clinton leading Bernie Sanders by four points and that is within the polls' margin of error.
Now, on the GOP side, there is an error of the net-ability that is settled over the country and the latest CNN/ORC poll of registered voters, 84 percent say believe Trump is most likely to win the Republican nomination.
Trump and Sanders are campaigning right now in Indiana. Cruz is expected to take the stage any moment. We begin with the Trump rally in South. Jim Acosta is there.
Jim, what's the latest?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Donald Trump on stage right now. He is talking about his chances and he feels very good about his chance in the Indiana primary tomorrow. He said just a few moments ago, if we win in Indiana, this thing is over. And then he said we want to turn to Hillary Clinton after that which he said in his words is going to be a lot of fun.
Now, I did talk to a Donald Trump advisor earlier today. He said if they win Indiana, they feel like, at this point, not only they are going win the nomination. They clinch a number of delegates on either to get that nomination. That they will hit 1400 delegates which is way beyond where a lot of people thought earlier on this campaign and end this race before it gets to California.
But Anderson, I can tell you just a few moments ago, Donald Trump rolled out more sports endorsements. He had the former basketball coach of Notre Dame here in South of Indiana, Digger Phelps. He had or Purdue basketball coach Jean Katy (ph), that along with Bobby Knight, the former Indianan basketball coach and former Notre Dame football coach earlier today. So basically Trump has what you would call a political sports dream team endorsing him in this state.
And earlier today, we should point out, he was really going after Ted Cruz and his running mate, Carly Fiorina. One point Donald Trump noting how Fiorina slip and fell off a stage, campaign stage, here in Indiana yesterday. Donald Trump at one point saying in a rally earlier today that even he would have helped Carly Fiorina, you know, get back up on that stage, noting that Ted Cruz did not. We should point out, though, that Heidi Cruz did try to lend a hand.
But it just goes to show you, Anderson, as the Cruz campaign is having some missteps here in this last final hours before the primary, Donald Trump is trying to exploit every one of them. He is feeling very confident about tomorrow, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Jim Acosta. Jim, thanks.
Ted Cruz had multiple events in Indiana today as he tries to stop Trump in getting the delegates he needs before the convention. At a stop at a restaurant in Marianne, Indiana, he encountered a handful of hecklers holding Trump signs including particularly blanch from supporter. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do the math. You asked Kasich to dropout. It's your turn. You're your own words. Time to dropout.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Indiana don't want you.
You are entitled to have your rights.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, sir, you are entitled to your right. But I will tell you this --.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lying Ted.
CRUZ: Sir, America is a better country --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without you.
CRUZ: Thank you for the kind sentiments. Let me point out I have treated you respectfully the entire time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Chief political correspondent Dana Bash joins me now from Indianapolis.
What is Cruz has been saying today ahead of tomorrow's primary in Indiana? I know you spoke to him.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I did. And he clearly is in debating mode. Not just with that protester, but when I spoke earlier today, he was in that kind of back and forth verbal rally sort of mentality. The conversation that we had was about the fact that he is blaming the media for not necessarily wanting him to go on because we keep asking questions about how important Indiana is tomorrow to which, of course, I responded that it's not necessarily the media is the actual hard numbers and the delegates where Trump is actually factually far ahead of him. And that Cruz himself has put a lot of impact on the state of Indiana.
And he definitely sense it, Anderson. Sense it from the candidates. He sense it from his staff. He was and is campaigning today with the governor who endorsed him. But even just the difference between what the two of them said today. For example, quickly, Governor Pence who is popular in the state, told me that he will support the nominee whoever it is.
Ted Cruz will not say that. He was asked multiple times over the weekend. I asked him again. He simply won't go there. So it gives you a sense of kind of how the Cruz campaign feels about the stakes being so high. They don't want to say anything that will push anybody over the edge in any particular way.
As I tossed back to you, I just want to tell you, Anderson, I was just worked in a crowd here before coming on to talk to you to get a sense of how people feel. There a lot of undecided voters here just even in the back row here. And some of them said to me that they are thinking, you know, I'm a die-hard Republican and I don't want this to continue. I don't want a contested convention. So I like Cruz, but I might vote for Trump just to end this thing. These are the things coming out of their mouths of voters which is really fascinating.
[20:06:02] COOPER: All right, Dana Bash. Dana, thank you.
As we mentioned, it is a much tighter race between the Democrats in Indiana. You see Senator Bernie Sanders there campaigning in Indianapolis. Jeff Zeleny is there and has the latest.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let us tomorrow have the biggest Indiana history.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bernie Sanders is firing up voters today across Indiana. He is asking Democrats to put the brakes on Hillary Clinton's march to the nomination. But she is already moving on.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We cannot let Barack Obama's legacy fall into Donald Trump's hands.
ZELENY: On the eve of the Indiana primary, Clinton is looking ahead to a fall matchup with Trump and to primary contest down the line.
Visiting Appalachia today, Clinton buying cookies from girl scouts and talking trade with Kentucky steelworkers.
CLINTON: But I don't believe that we should be subsidizing in effect the rest of the world. We have some cards to play. And we need to play those cards.
ZELENY: In Indiana, the race seems close. Clinton leading Sanders narrowly in a week in "Wall Street Journal"/NBC News poll. Her advantage is stronger nationally, leading Sanders eight points in our new CNN/ORC poll. Sanders is increasingly showing frustration not only at Clinton, but at Democratic rules.
SANDERS: When we talk about a rigged system, it's also important to understand how the Democratic convention works.
ZELENY: Sanders particularly frustrated with super delegates or party officials who also have a say.
SANDERS: It makes it hard for insurgent candidacies be like ours to win. But you know what? We are going to fight for every last vote.
ZELENY: That fight is getting harder in his battle to win the nomination more uphill. Clinton is about 200 delegates shy of the 2383 need. Sanders needs five times that many, pledged and super delegates.
Trump is following Sanders' words carefully and plans to use them against Clinton.
TRUMP: Bernie said she should not be allowed to run. That she is not capable. And you know, what he said is incredible. It is a sound bite.
ZELENY: We asked Sanders whether that bothered him.
SANDERS: No. The Republican Party and Trump have the resources to do all the opposition research they want on Secretary Clinton. They don't need Bernie Sanders' critiques of the secretary.
ZELENY: Now, Anderson, there is no question that the rhetoric has softened somewhat here. But this Democratic race is still very much alive. Bernie Sanders speaking behind me here to several thousand people in downtown Indianapolis who still want a have a say in this Democratic primary.
Now, the Clinton campaign believe that it mathematically is over, but politically it's not quite yet. And speaking of politics, Hillary Clinton was in Appalachia today. She apologized to coal workers for that comment she made in a CNN town hall meeting back in March when she essentially said that she would put coal workers out of business through new energy policies and things. She said I'm sorry. I was wrong. Can you please forgive me? That's something, Anderson, we don't hear very often in politicians to make such a blanket apology. We heard that tonight from Hillary Clinton.
COOPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, thanks very much.
As I said, we are going to dig deep with our panel in the final push for votes in Indiana.
Plus, just minutes from now, the "360" special, we got him. President Obama, bin Laden and the future of the war on terror. New details about the raid five years ago, details you never heard and the drama as it unfolded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: We came in here at the point where the helicopters were about to land. It's here where we observed, for example, that one of the helicopters got damaged in the landing.
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: And what were you thinking?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:13:40] COOPER: It is Indiana's turn in the spotlight. The candidates know the states, both Trump and Cruz, holding rallies tonight. Trump speaking right now. Cruz expected to take the stage any moment.
A lot to discuss with their panel. Political commentator Ryan Lizza, chief political analyst Gloria Borger, Andrew Sullivan, contributing editor at New York magazine joins us, political commentators Kayleigh McEnany and Amanda Carpenter. Kayleigh is a Trump supporter. Amanda is the former communications director for Ted Cruz. Also with us, national security commentator Mike Rogers who served the chairman of the house intelligence committee.
First of all, Andrew, welcome. That's great to have you with us.
ANDREW SULLIVAN, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: Thank you.
COOPER: You wrote an article in "New York" magazine which I heard people are reading because it is so fascinating. I want to read the last line in the piece. You say quote -- it's all about Donald Trump. You say "in terms of liberal democracy and constitutional order, Trump is an extinction level event. It is long past time we started treating him as such."
What are your extinction level been? I mean, that is a bold statement.
SULLIVAN: I mean, I think he threatens our constitution. I think he threatens our civil order. I think that the pledge is to round up and deport 11 million human beings from this country. It's the kind of platform no one is ever put forward at a major national level. No one at a major national level was ever condone violence or sought it demonize and discriminate against someone of a particular religion in the way that he has. I mean, if a candidate today was saying no Jews allowed in the United States, we would know what that candidate was about. We have one in saying no Muslims in the United States. And we are not prepared to really call it out the way it is. And he is such a brilliant gamesmanship. There is so much brilliant in his performance. But my fear is that we have a reality television culture. And the reason these other candidates have been able to really combat him. He is not because he has better arguments. It is because being called them better names.
[20:15:27] COOPER: But you are also saying that establishment Republicans, that if Trump is the nominee, the GOP establishment should continue to fight against them.
COOPER: In order to save the GOP down the road.
SULLIVAN: Yes. Save not just the GOP, but the country from this guy. I mean, we can have a global trade war, we can have a global religious war, and if you try to do what he says he is going to do, and I think we have to believe it, then we are going to have a military or police operations to deport 11 million people in this country, and it is not going to be pretty.
COOPER: Chairman Rogers, what do you say to the argument amongst some of the GOP of continuing to stand against Donald Trump if he does that nomination?
MIKE ROGERS, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMENTATOR: No. I don't look at it as the end of the world. I do think that after the election, you will see a taming of the candidates. I don't care who comes out of it. Just like Hillary Clinton has to run hard, had been running more hard to the left that she probably wants to govern. She is going to have to try work to get back to the center. I think the same problem at the Republicans. Whoever comes out of that and it looks like it is going to be Donald Trump, I do believe he tries to step himself back into the governance model of running for an election. I don't know if he can do it. I don't know if it is in his make-up, but I think it's too early to say all is lost. Abandoned ship. Pull the sheet up over your head and let's --.
COOPER: Amanda, do you continue to - I mean, do you side with Andrew in the notion of people continuing to stand up against Donald Trump?
AMANDA CARPENTER, FORMER CRUZ COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: I think so. But more broadly, I think Donald Trump is really excellent litmus test for a Republican. If he is a nominee, what does it say about the party? I mean, I'm a Republican. I'm a conservative. I thought the Republican stood for shrinking the size of government, restore more freedom to the people. That is not something I hear Donald Trump talk about. I hear him talk about his crazy outlandish things day to day. So if he is the nominee, I do not know what the party stands for anymore. I don't know if other Republicans can reclaim it and create some way to idiot-proof the White House. I don't know. But this is a crisis of the party. And regardless of what happens, we are going to find out a lot about what other Republican stand for in this process.
COOPER: Kayleigh, obviously, you totally disagree.
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I completely disagree. First of all, I disagree with the cryptic vision you have of Donald Trump. The fact is a lot of Americans sit here and they look at, you know, 10 people, 11 people who died in San Bernardino. And they are very scared. They look at a president who refuses to use the word radical Islam. He refuses to call this what it is. Likewise, we look at his un-bridal immigration policy and you look to Europe and we see 400 ISIS fighters who got into Europe and killed 143 Parisians.
The fact is this is proven by a radical ideology within faith. It's not everyone, but it is certainly some of them. And Americans are very scared. Likewise, they are scared on the economic front. And Donald Trump has put forward a positive vision about how to make this country --.
COOPER: So, it is argument that if a candidate was saying don't allow Jewish people in the country, would you acceptable?
MCENANY: We don't have a problem with Jewish people right now. We have a problem with radical Islam.
COOPER: Well, there are extremist Jewish who have committed acts of terror.
MCENANY: They are nor operating in four countries and targeting the United States.
SULLIVAN: But you are not arguing to fire these ISIS terrorists. You are arguing that anybody who is a Muslim could not be allowed in the United States. That is an abolition of America. This place was designed and created so the people would have freedom of religion and come here and practice as they want. This is an attack upon the United States of America that your candidate is doing.