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Anniversary Of Bin Laden's Death; The Battle For Indiana. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 02, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

MARGOT CRANDALL, RAPE VICTIM: that's when they gave me accommodations and helped me withdraw from classes, and they didn't offer any of that until they had the court documentation.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anger is growing.

KELSEY BOURGEOIS, RALLY ORGANIZER: I'm a sexual assault survivor. I was raped here in this community while I was attending BYU.

CABRERA (on camera): Did you report it?

BOURGEOIS: No, I did not, for this exact reason.

CABRERA: You were too afraid?

BOURGEOIS: Yes.

CABRERA (voice-over): Kelsey Bourgeois recently led a protest march through campus with a petition signed by more than 100,000 calling on the university to give immunity to those who report rape or sexual assault.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will be happy to take these and we'll personally deliver them to President Worthen.

CABRERA: The university says it is now studying current practices and procedures.

CARRI JENKINS, BYU SPOKESWOMAN: We want to look at the relationship between the Title 9 office and the honor code office. We want to look at whether and how information is shared. We want to look at the perception that students have.

BARNEY: It's not a perception. It's something that's actually happening. And that's them again not believing us.

MADELINE MACDONALD, ALLEGED SEXUAL ASSAULT VICTIM: I don't know why they even feel the need to do a study. Like there's overwhelming evidence. So many people have come forward.

BROOKE, ALLEGED RAPE VICTIM: It's just a school whose policies are very messed up right now and aren't in line with what love and mercy is. CABRERA: Ana Cabrera, CNN, Provo, Utah.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we continue on, on this Monday afternoon. Great to be with you. I'm Brooke Baldwin. This is CNN.

We are minutes away from both Donald Trump and Ted Cruz, separate events, separate cities in Utah, about to speak. It's a primary tomorrow that may boost Donald Trump's run for the nomination unlike any other, because it may knock out Trump's main competition.

Ted Cruz, he's expected on the stage on Fort Wayne, Indiana. We're watching and waiting for both men to speak. Keep in mind here, 57, 57 critical Republican delegates are all up for grabs tomorrow. Senator Cruz needs every one of them, and then some. He also needs the momentum of a win after his recent string of losses throughout the Northeast.

Even Cruz has pumped up how important Indiana is to him, campaigning with the state's governor today. But a new poll shows Ted Cruz trailing in Indiana by 15 points to Donald Trump. And take a look at what happened earlier today on the trail, Ted Cruz coming face to face with a wall of Trump supporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I'm running to be everyone's president, those who vote for me, even those who don't...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't want you.

CRUZ: Well, you're entitled to your view, sir. And I will respect it.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do the math.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You asked Kasich to drop out. It is your turn.

CRUZ: Well...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your own words.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once again, lying Ted.

CRUZ: What do you like about Donald Trump?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything. CRUZ: Give me one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK.

We're going to go to Sara Murray momentarily. She's is following the Trump in Carmel, Indiana.

But let me bring in my panel first and foremost.

I have Maeve Reston standing by, CNN national politics reporter. Also, chief political correspondent Dana Bash is with us as well, and Mark Preston, CNN politics executive editor.

Awesome seeing all of you.

Let's talk Indiana.

Dana Bash, you are in Marion, Indiana. You just interviewed Ted Cruz. What did he tell you?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He is doing everything he possibly can, understandably, to dispel the notion that, if he doesn't win here in Indiana, where he has put all of his eggs, that he's basically done for.

And so we talked about the idea that he over the weekend especially was asked on all of the shows, if he doesn't get to 1,237 before the convention, and Donald Trump does get that magic number of delegates needed to be the nominee, will Ted Cruz support Donald Trump?

So, here's how part of that conversation went.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: Dana, nobody's going to get to 1,237. I'm not going to get to it, but neither is Donald Trump. And I'll tell you, I think Indiana is going to be a critical state, in that Indiana is voting tomorrow, and I'm encouraged that we are seeing conservatives come together, including especially Governor Mike Pence.

BASH: What makes you so sure he won't get the delegates? I mean, getting 47 percent of the remaining delegates isn't inconceivable at all.

CRUZ: Well, he hasn't gotten 47 percent to date. That's better than he's done. And I'll tell you...

BASH: But he sure did well last week.

CRUZ: You're right. He did well in his home state. And he did well in the adjoining states. He won five states last week. But I'll tell you, in the three weeks that preceded that, I won five

states in a row, starting with Utah, then North Dakota, then Wisconsin, then Colorado, then Wyoming; 1.3 million people voted in those states.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: So, you know, look, for him, it would obviously be political malpractice, Brooke, for him to say, you know what, yes, if I don't win here tomorrow, I'm out.

[15:05:05]

BALDWIN: Right.

BASH: I mean, there's no way he's going to say that.

But I will say, behind the scenes, not necessarily people deep inside his campaign, but Republicans I talk to who have been gung-ho in the never Trump movement, say, Donald Trump wins right here in Indiana tomorrow, even for them, the never Trump movement, it's pretty much game over.

BALDWIN: I mean, you heard, Maeve, you heard those Trump supporters talking, you know, sort of feet from Ted Cruz's face earlier today saying...

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.

BALDWIN: ... saying, hey, remember, once upon a time, you were urging Governor Kasich to get out of the race, telling him he could be a spoiler?

Isn't the true -- the same true for Ted Cruz potentially here?

RESTON: Well, I think that you know, so much hinges on tomorrow night, like Dana said, for lots of reasons, but the main reason being money.

I mean, how do the anti-Trump forces go on and actually get what they need from donors to help Ted Cruz and Kasich compete in these Western states that are coming up?

You know, it is just going to be fascinating. A lot of people are saying that they believe that the polls are actually a little bit tighter than they look right now. But, you know, does Ted Cruz have a scenario and a path if he comes close to Donald Trump, but loses? So much of it depends on momentum and whether or not he can get his donors to keep giving him enough money to keep going in those other states.

BALDWIN: Let me actually pivot, keep all of you all.

I'm hearing now Governor Pence is introducing Ted Cruz there speaking. Here they are, Fort Wayne. Let's dip in.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

CRUZ: That's what I'm campaigning to do, is bring Hoosier common sense to the entire country.

And I'm humbled and deeply honored to have the tremendous support of Governor Pence.

QUESTION: Senator, do you believe the media's counts of delegates are accurate? You criticize the media for saying that the race is already over. Do you think those accounts reflect the delegates that have actually been awarded? And do you think there's a chance to unbind delegates before their -- the convention at the RNC meeting?

CRUZ: You know, Dave, I think, at this point, most people are tired of the endless process stories.

QUESTION: We're not.

(LAUGHTER)

CRUZ: I recognize that's what the media wants to cover. You know what we hear as we travel the state? We hear people who want to see how we bring jobs back.

We hear single moms who are working two and three part-time jobs and are tired of not having enough to provide for their kids. We hear from steelworkers and coal miners and people who work at factories who have seen their wages stagnating.

My number one priority as president will be jobs and economic growth. And my focus is not on the all the process stories of a dog chasing his tail in a circle, but, instead, how do we get the government off the backs of small businesses? How do we cut taxes, reduce regulation, so small businesses can take off?

And what we're going to see is millions of new high-paying jobs coming back to America. We're going to see manufacturing jobs coming back to Indiana.

And I will tell you, I fully expect in two, three, four years to see Carrier bringing those manufacturing jobs back from Mexico to Indiana, not because the federal government will have used brute force to punish them, but because we will have removed the federal government regulations that drove them away in the first place, and we will have created such an attractive place to do business that small businesses are growing, that wages are rising.

And Carrier and companies from all over the world will be coming to America, coming to Indiana because it's the best place to do business on the face of the Earth.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ... words in the last 24 hours, including evil and bigotry. It sounds to me like that's directed towards Donald Trump. Are his supporters voting for somebody who's evil and bigoted? CRUZ: Listen, I think Donald Trump supporters are fed up with

Washington. I understand that sentiment. I assure you, I'm fed up with Washington. Governor Pence is fed up with Washington.

QUESTION: But could you clarify what you were saying with those words specifically?

CRUZ: I believe in America.

I believe we are a loving people. I believe we're a welcoming people. I believe we are a people who hunger to be united. And I think politics should not be about attacks, about insults, about cursing, about hatred. Politics instead should be about shared values.

It is the reason why my campaign focuses every day on jobs, freedom and security. Those are my priorities, jobs, bringing jobs back to America, raising wages ,freedom, defending the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, the rights of all of us, and security, standing by our friends and allies, standing by Israel, and defeating radical Islamic terrorism.

And I would note every one of those issues, they're not narrow 51 percent wedge issues. Those are broad, unifying issues that bring together 60 percent, 70 percent, 80 percent of Americans. They bring together Republicans and Democrats and independents and libertarians.

[15:10:04]

Our campaign is about uniting Americans behind shared values, to get back to what works. The Obama-Clinton economy does not work. It does not make sense. The federal government's assault on the Bill of Rights is wrong, and it is going to end. And so that is my focus, and I think it's also...

BALDWIN: All right, Ted Cruz there standing alongside Governor Pence, who endorsed him last Friday.

You know, some of the themes, we have certainly heard before from the Texas senator.

But, Mark Preston, let me ask you, because he was asked about, you know, delegates and some of these unbound delegates. I'm not quite sure I really heard an answer. So, my question to you is, you know, there have been these reports -- and the Cruz camp has been outstanding in terms of ground game and grabbing these delegates.

But now there are reports that some of these delegates could be changing their minds toward Trump if it were to come to, you know, that second ballot at a contested convention in Cleveland, feeling the pressure, you know, to go as the popular vote. What do you know about that?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, Brooke, I mean, just to put it in simple mathematics as well, just to set the stage, there are 502 delegates left, bound delegates that are left on the table. Donald Trump only needs 235 of those. What the Cruz campaign has been

trying to do is to go to states where Donald Trump has won, as we have seen in Arizona and Virginia, and to try to get these delegates to support him on the second ballot, OK, meaning if Donald Trump doesn't get 1,237 and go in as the outright nominee, then Ted Cruz would come in on the second vote and hopefully become the nominee.

What we're seeing now across the country is, we are seeing this inevitability idea that's starting to take root that Donald Trump is going to inevitably become the nominee. And what we saw in Pennsylvania last week is, there was an incredible amount of pressure on unbound delegates that if their congressional district which they're representing at the convention was supportive of Donald Trump, then they better support Donald Trump.

And I think that's what we're starting to see take root across the country right now. The inevitability means that these folks are not going to go against the will of the voters who voted for Donald Trump in their districts and states all throughout the nation.

BALDWIN: Dana, just quickly to you, with the bit of voice you have left, let's move past Indiana for a second. What is the next big date that is circled on the Cruz camp calendar? Is it California?

BASH: Before that, actually, Nebraska, which is, I believe, the next week.

And the reason why it's critical, maybe not even so much for the Cruz camp, but for those big donors that Maeve was talking about, some of them are actually located in Nebraska. And so they have to make decisions pretty quickly as to whether or not they're going to stick with their never Trump movement and pull out their checkbooks and continue to write checks or not.

And, so, that's why -- one of the many reasons why tomorrow here in Indiana is so incredibly crucial, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Dana Bash, thank you, Mark Preston, Maeve Reston.

Also, make sure you tune in to see the rest of Dana's interview with Texas Senator Ted Cruz coming up next with Jake Tapper on "THE LEAD."

Ted Cruz and Donald Trump both expected. We saw Ted Cruz a moment ago. Donald Trump expected to take the stage in Carmel, Indiana. We will take that live for you as well here on the eve of the big Indiana primary.

But coming up next: Five years ago, President Obama gave the order to kill Osama bin Laden, a decision that would define his legacy and change the global war on terror.

CNN's Peter Bergen will join me next. He went one on one with the president of the United States for a rare interview in the White House Situation Room. Do not miss this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [15:17:55]

BALDWIN: Five years ago tonight, we were in wall-to-wall breaking news coverage here on CNN, bringing you every single detail we possibly could about what happened in Pakistan that evening.

U.S. Navy SEALs, SEAL Team Six, had killed Osama bin Laden during an overnight raid at his secret hideout.

CNN is now this evening looking back at bin Laden's death with a special report featuring our national security analyst, Peter Bergen. He got unprecedented access to the White House Situation Room, where the president saw the raid unfold in real time five years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we came in here at the point where the helicopters were about to actually land. It's here where we observed, for example, that one of the helicopters got damaged in the landing.

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: And what were you thinking?

OBAMA: I was thinking that this is not an ideal start.

(LAUGHTER)

OBAMA: Look, we were all worried. The good news was, it didn't crash. Our guys were able to extract themselves. The bad news was that the helicopter itself had been damaged.

And this is an example, though, of the kind of meticulous planning that had been done. Even though we had the best helicopter operators imaginable, despite the fact that they had practiced these landings repeatedly in a mockup, we couldn't account for temperature and the fact that helicopters start reacting differently in an enclosed compound where heat may be rising.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Not off to a great start, he says.

Peter Bergen is with us now. He wrote the book on the manhunt for bin Laden.

So nice to have you on.

BERGEN: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: I mean, that was -- to think of you sitting in front of bin Laden in '97, and then here you are in front of the president of the United States, the successful, you know, killing of the world's most wanted man, five years later, what did you learn?

BERGEN: Well, one thing is, President Obama told us that he's -- that he was thinking about the raid option a lot earlier than I think we understood.

[15:20:00]

I mean, he didn't have to make a decision, obviously. But he was contemplating this raid option, by his own account, fairly early on. And there were a lot of reasons for that. If you bomb the compound, you know, for a start, you're bombing a city, and there will be a lot of civilian casualties.

You couldn't really prove to yourself you had killed bin Laden. You would be bombing an ally, or at least a nominal ally, Pakistan. And so the raid option, although there were plenty of risks with that, became the most attractive one.

And then we spoke at considerable length to Admiral McRaven, who's the architect of the raid.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: In charge of special-ops, right, at the time.

BERGEN: Who was in charge of special operations.

And he's -- everybody we talked to had huge admiration for him. And he gave us the first really in-depth interview, where he kind of narrates the raid from his perspective. And so that was fascinating.

BALDWIN: What about what -- give me one detail.

BERGEN: Well, you know, he -- the helicopter that pilot went down, McRaven, Admiral McRaven, had spoken to him before. And they had had a fairly serious discussion about what would happen if a helicopter -- somebody within the compound fired a rocket-propelled grenade.

The helicopter pilot said: Look, if I -- unless I'm actually dead, I can land this helicopter.

BALDWIN: Wow.

BERGEN: Now, as it turned out, that was not what happened.

As the president said, it was this kind of unexpected heat, the kind of conditions at the compound. The helicopter dropped very, very quickly into a kind of controlled crash. But one the reasons that it was a controlled crash is that they had really thought out how to deal with any kind of eventuality.

BALDWIN: But the fact that bin Laden had been in this compound for, what, six years?

BERGEN: Almost six years, yes.

BALDWIN: Almost six years. What do we now know as far as who in Pakistan had any idea?

BERGEN: Well, we asked that very good question to the president, to John Brennan, the head of the CIA, to Hillary Clinton, the secretary of the state at the time.

And they all say basically there wasn't -- they don't still have any evidence that the Pakistanis knew. But, certainly, Hillary Clinton is fairly convinced that somebody knew. After all, this was sort of a Pakistani military town. There was a military training. This is where military officers go to retire.

And she told us pretty strongly that she feels that they did know, even though she didn't proffer any precise evidence for that.

BALDWIN: Incredible to get the backstory and all the details now five years later.

Peter Bergen, thank you very much.

BERGEN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: We will be hanging on your every word and, of course, that of all the different people who you interviewed here, including the president of the United States.

We're calling it "We Got Him." Do miss this tonight 8:00 Eastern here on CNN.

The bin Laden raid happened five years ago. It was the very same night as the White House Correspondents Dinner. And this year, the president much more relaxed. We will discuss the final mic drop moment and the backlash after host Larry Wilmore at the very end referred to the president as the N-word.

And minutes from now, Donald Trump holding a rally in Indiana. A win there could really help him clinch the Republican nomination. We will take you there one day ahead of the all-important Indiana primary.

Stay with me. You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:27:26]

BALDWIN: We are watching and listening very closely to each of these different candidates, of course, on the trail the day before the Indiana primary here.

Ted Cruz has just taken to the stage. We dipped in a moment ago during the press gaggle. He was standing alongside the governor, Mike Pence, who had endorsed him on Friday.

So here he is now speaking to a crowd in Fort Wayne. We will keep an eye on that.

Meantime, Cruz's opponent Donald Trump making a final push before Indiana's Republican voters go to the polls tomorrow. He is also expected to speak to crowds in Carmel, Indiana.

And that is where we find CNN's Sara Murray, who is following the Trump campaign.

Sara Murray, what do we expect to hear from Mr. Trump?

SARA MURRAY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, I think we are going to hear a lot of confidence from Donald Trump.

In his earlier stop today, he made an unannounced trip to go get a little bit of lunch. He was saying that this is big in Indiana. If he wins it, he feels like the primary contest is done, he feels like he is the Republican nominee.

And that's what we're hearing from his campaign, too. They watched Ted Cruz making this final push. He's going all over the state with his surrogates, Carly Fiorina and Mike Pence. But they're saying, look, we are looking at the polling that shows us with this wide lead.

And, frankly, the Trump campaign believes the same thing that we're seeing in this polling, which is that the Cruz-Kasich alliance may have actually hurt them. That "Wall Street Journal"/NBC/Marist poll shows that 58 percent of Republican primary voters disapproved of the Cruz-Kasich alliance.

And the Trump campaign believes that might have even fit into their narrative that this is a rigged system. Now, Brooke, I know that a lot of anti-Trump folks are hoping that Wisconsin will look -- or that Indiana will look a like Wisconsin did, where they were able to deliver Trump a defeat.

But I can tell you, on the ground, it feels a little bit different. We are seeing really big crowds for Donald Trump. We're seeing a lot of energy. So, I imagine he will be very energetic on the stump today -- back to you.

BALDWIN: Sara Murray, we will dip in. We will watch for him. Thank you very much.

Could be a big night for Donald Trump come tomorrow.

Next, though, we want to talk about what has been happening in Syria, a rare and shocking look at the horrors of war. We now have surveillance video from inside that Syrian hospital that was the target of an airstrike.

Dozens of people were killed, including one of the last remaining pediatricians in the entire country. The chilling images of the moment of impact bring home the human toll of this brutal war.

Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)