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Voters Hitting the Polls in Indiana; Sanders Touts Strength with Independents. Aired 9-9:30a ET
Aired May 03, 2016 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[09:00:01] MASTER SGT. DANIEL RAIMONDO, SAVED BABY FROM BURNING BUILDING: You'll see me grabbing her and then running her to -- take her to a safe location, and then obviously coming back to the scene to where, lo and behold, another baby is getting ready to be thrown out the window and then another one. And then of course, at the end, the mother had to come down, and as you saw, the smoke and the fire was just horrendous which is really smoky where you could barely even see her at that point.
And you know, everybody was screaming. I was just yelling up to her, we have to jump, we have to jump, we have to jump. And she jumped, too. And then all of a sudden, she comes down into the blanket, and you could just imagine, we're not talking about a baby here.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
RAIMONDO: We're talking about a woman who I think -- I believe her to be to have been pregnant. So she winds up hitting the blanket and of course we all, you know, moved down with the blanket and I felt her hit the ground, and believe it or not, somebody before all that, you know, during all the commotion, somebody put two cushions underneath the blanket on the ground.
CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh.
RAIMONDO: I actually heard her actually hit the cushion. So at that point, she bounced off the blanket as well, and of course, I went to grab her with another individual, and then two other people had to come to assist. And we carried her into a safe location into a salon, and put her on the couch and I just kept yelling, talking to her, you're alive, you're alive. And all she kept doing was feeling the back -- her back, you know, I guess she had hurt her back. And she was under a lot of shock, you know, you could tell she had smoke inhalation.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
RAIMONDO: And I just remember looking over and seeing the first baby that jumped out. I went to hold her, and I sat and talked to her for a brief moment, and I let her know that, you know, she was very brave and she flew like super girl. She just smiled. And then of course, the rest is history. I went to see her mother. It was pretty emotional experience. But the good news is they made it through it. They made it through it alive. If any at all, you know, just minor injuries from what I understand. CAMEROTA: Thanks to your ingenuity. Sergeant Daniel Raimondo, we
applaud you. You are the "Good Stuff" this morning. Thank you so much for telling us your story. We're all so proud of you and thank you for your service.
OK, time now for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello.
CUOMO: Oh, boy.
CAMEROTA: Top that.
CUOMO: I'll tell you, we took some of your time, Carol, but it was worth it. That's an amazing story. We'll make it back to you.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Thanks so much.
NEWSROOM starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The entire country is depending on the state of Indiana.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If we win Indiana, it's over. It's over. They're finished. They're gone.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I worry, we won't recognize our country if we don't do this.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When the voter turnout is high, when working people and middle class people and young people are prepared to come out and vote, we win elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.
Voting kicks off in Indiana. And when the day is over, the spotlight may shift to the November election. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump seeking decisive victories that would knock their challengers down if not out. Democrat Bernie Sanders teetering on the brink of mathematical elimination. He needs a big showing today. His fundraising has dropped off and his place at the convention potentially shrinking. He needs to prove his message is still resonating.
Among the Republicans, this may be the most important vote yet for Ted Cruz. His campaign has gambled almost everything in Indiana. It needs to hold ground to deprive Trump of enough delegates to clinch. But Trump is going for the kill, and says if he wins Indiana, the race is over. But before even the first vote is counted, Trump is already gearing up for Hillary Clinton in November.
Our correspondents and guests are looking at all the angles as this dramatic day unfolds. Let's begin, though, with CNN's Sara Murray. She is following the Republicans.
Good morning, Sara.
SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Well, Ted Cruz is insisting he is going to stay in this race until Cleveland, no matter what happens here in Indiana. But look, he's been running all over the state saying it is do or die for his campaign. And he has pretty much every high profile surrogate who has backed him doing the same thing.
Now yesterday Ted Cruz took an interesting tactic and decided to mix it up with some Trump supporters who were protesting him maybe in the hopes of winning them over. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: Most candidates would have just let the protesters go do their thing. I made a different decision. I walked across the street to engage with them.
Sir, America is a better country.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump, he is the only one that's going to put us where we need to be.
CRUZ: This man is lying to you and he's taking advantage of you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: Now we'll see in just a few short hours whether Ted Cruz can eke out a victory here.
[09:05:04] But in the meantime Donald Trump has been sounding awfully confident saying that he feels like he's going to finish things off. He's going to clinch the nomination by winning Indiana, and that if he does win, the primary race is effectively over.
And we're already seeing a shift in Donald Trump's rhetoric. It's clear he has an eye on the general election, in addition to going after Hillary Clinton, saying she is playing the gender card and saying she is only winning because she's a woman. He's been trying out some other attacks that might make some Republicans feel more comfortable, taking aim at Hillary Clinton's judgment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Crooked Hillary. Bad judgment. I didn't say it. Ben -- you know, I didn't say it. A lot of people said -- a lot of people brought it to my attention. Ben brought it to my attention. Others did. But it was said by Bernie. So I don't -- I can't take any -- can I take heat if Bernie said it? So here's the story. Bernie said bad judgment. And sure, look at the e-mail scandal. That's bad judgment. You'd almost say, what is the purpose of doing it? It's just her. It's bad, bad judgment. It's also criminal. (END VIDEO CLIP)
MURRAY: Now, Carol, I think some Republicans kind of cringed when Donald Trump originally said Hillary Clinton was only winning because she is a woman. He has some rough numbers with women in the general election. But this line of attack, going against Clinton's judgment, is something Republicans are much more comfortable with, something they believe could potentially be a winning line for them in a general election. Back to you.
COSTELLO: All right, Sara Murray, reporting live for us this morning. Thank you.
Voters have been hitting the polls for a few hours already. CNN's Jason Carroll is at a voting station at Terre Haute, Indiana. Good morning.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, Carol. Welcome to Vigo County, actually, Indiana. I've got some people waiving their hands back there. Very popular spot for voting. Some 78,000 registered voters in this particular county. 16 percent of them voted early. That voting early starting on April 5th.
We should tell you that twice as many Republicans have registered so far in comparison to Democrats but don't tell that to this man right over here. Ryan Hopper -- Hooper.
Thank you, Ryan, for that. Democrat, decided to vote for Bernie Sanders.
RYAN HOOPER, INDIANA VOTER: Yes, sir.
CARROLL: Not Hillary Clinton. Tell me why.
HOOPER: Well, I believe in his grassroots politics, and you know, funding coming from us. I believe in his raising the minimum wage. You know, I come from a union, and we have fought for many a generations for, you know, higher wages and living conditions and things like that.
CARROLL: But, Ryan, much has been said about his chances of winning in a general election. You think he can pull an upset here in the state?
HOOPER: I think he can here. I've been voicing my opinion. I just don't like Trump's stance on women and the things that he says is really nasty, so I don't like those things. And you know, the way he talks, doesn't even make sense to me. You know, person of the middle class, and here in the United States, you know.
CARROLL: All right, Ryan, thank you very much. A union man as well?
HOOPER: Yes, sir.
CARROLL: Thank you very much for doing that. I appreciate you stopping by. We should also tell you something about this particular county, Carol.
Bellwether county, and the reason why I say that is because historically this county, since 1888, has successfully picked the winning presidential candidate, you know, nearly every single time. There were only two times that they were not able to do that. Once 1908, the other time I believe in 1952. So you can understand why even though this is a primary, not a general election, why there are so many eyes and ears on this Vigo County -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right, Jason Carroll, reporting life from Terre Haute, Indiana, this morning.
You know, it's been a brutal few weeks for Senator Ted Cruz. The tepid endorsement from the Indiana governor, Mike Pence, a sports lingo snafu in basketball crazy Indiana, and John Boehner, the popular ex-speaker of the House, in the state next door, he called Ted Cruz Lucifer in the flesh. And then there was this. A nasty exchange with his rival's supporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You look like a fish monster and you're a terrible person.
CRUZ: God bless you, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why do you hate transgender people? Why do you (INAUDIBLE)?
CRUZ: Sir, you seem to have real problems with anger. I would advise decaffeinating brands. They work just as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: All of this on the heels of a must-win election in Indiana. So let's get right to it.
Tony Samuels is the vice chairman of the Trump campaign in Indiana and Bob Barr is a Ted Cruz supporter as well as a former Republican congressman from Georgia.
Welcome to both of you.
BOB BARR, TED CRUZ SUPPORTER: Good morning.
TONY SAMUELS, VICE CHAIRMAN, TRUMP CAMPAIGN INDIANA: Thank you.
COSTELLO: Good morning. So Bob, can Senator Cruz pull off a win in Indiana?
BARR: Certainly he can. And I think it's important to keep in mind that Indiana, like many states, including our state here in Georgia, delegates are awarded not only based on the statewide vote, but the congressional district vote. And here is where Senator Cruz's grassroots organization really comes into play. [09:10:09] He works the grassroots, he works the delegates. He is
very good at retail politics. He doesn't rely so much on, you know, big hoopla and so forth as we saw yesterday in the exchange with the Trump supporters. He is not afraid to go out one-on-one, one on two, and actually interface with the people, with the voters. That's what will make the difference. And we believe that -- and our numbers internally show this -- that Senator Cruz will do very, very well in Indiana, particularly at the congressional district level.
COSTELLO: So, Tony, you heard what Bob said, and -- but I have to ask you this. You heard those Trump supporters, they called Ted Cruz a fish monster and worse. Ted Cruz would say they're taking a cue from their candidate, Mr. Trump, a man who says he will unite the party. Seriously?
SAMUELS: Yes, seriously. Excuse me. I'll give you an example here in our -- in the Hoosier state. Over the last three days, Mr. Trump has gained the endorsement of legendary IU basketball coach Bob Knight. You guys know that. And Bob Knight traveled with Mr. Trump at several rallies. But then also just yesterday gained the endorsement of another legendary basketball Gene Keady of Purdue University. Now those are big rivals. There's a 20-year rivalry between those folks.
Then later in the day, gained the endorsement of Lou Holts, our legendary football coach at Notre Dame. So he's united Hoosier sports fans and that's I think should be taken seriously because these are real --
COSTELLO: Is that the same as uniting the country or uniting Republicans?
SAMUELS: These are real folks. I think it is. I think it is.
COSTELLO: Really?
SAMUELS: I think it is because he is going to do that. You know, you talk about the politics versus the working class and political class versus the working class. He is uniting people of all genders, of all types, of all races. And he's been winning.
COSTELLO: So --
SAMUELS: And he's going to continue to.
COSTELLO: So, Bob, do basketball legends trump Governor Pence and other people who have supported Ted Cruz in the state of Indiana? Does that mean -- I mean, which is more important if you're going to, like, prove you're a uniter?
BARR: Well, Mr. Trump is not a uniter by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, his retail politics are insulting, to insult people and to divide the country. Even when he wins a primary, he can't resist the urge to insult his opponents, insult the other voters. This is not a candidate who in any way, shape or form is going to unite the country. What is important, when you look at Senator Cruz's campaign, is, for example, the manner in which he engaged the Trump supporters yesterday. He was very respectful, even though they were shouting vulgarities at him.
He is respectful. He sticks to the issues. And this is very similar, I think, and important to understand why -- why Governor Pence endorsed Senator Cruz, and not Mr. Trump. Because Senator Cruz respects the system. He works the system. He is respectful to people. He sticks to the issues. He doesn't insult. And that in fact is what is going to unite the party and unite the country.
COSTELLO: Well, let me ask you. Let me ask you this, Bob. You say Senator Cruz works the system. If he loses the state of Indiana today, what will Senator Cruz do? Because it will be virtually impossible for him to catch up to Donald Trump.
BARR: It won't be virtually impossible to catch up to Donald Trump because you catch up to Donald Trump at the convention. These are the rules that the Republican Party and virtually every other organization lives by. We don't live by, you know, one individual. The big man on the pulpit saying oh, I'm the king of Switzerland or I'm the presumptive nominee or it's over. The fact of the matter is in the real world as opposed to Trump world there are rules to be followed, there are laws of physics that have to be followed, and the end game is not Indiana. The end game is the Republican convention in Cleveland.
COSTELLO: Well, I would suppose, Tony, we would know what Mr. Trump would say to what Bob just said.
SAMUELS: Well, I can tell you this here in Indiana. Folks love Donald Trump. He'd had tremendous support, tremendous support and enthusiasm at his rallies. I was at a rally in Ft. Wayne, Indiana, the other day probably 14,000, every seat was taken. And they're doing the wave beforehand. Before he came out. That kind of thing, you just don't see in politics. Ever. And there's just so much enthusiasm.
This is going to be a big win for Mr. Trump in Indiana today. And you know, he is going to get the 30 delegates from the statewide delegate count, and then I think a majority of the districts, and it's going to be -- it's going to propel him to where he needs to be to get to that 1237 number.
COSTELLO: All right.
SAMUELS: I think we'll go over the 1237 number.
[09:15:00] COSTELLO: OK.
SAMUELS: There's just a lot of combativeness that you're hearing from the Cruz folks and a lot of desperation, and I think we're going to see a clearer path after today. And Indiana is going to be the state that helps Mr. Trump get there.
COSTELLO: OK. I've got to leave there, guys. Thank you so much -- Tony Samuels, Bob Barr. SAMUELS: Thank you.
COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, Bernie Sanders hoping today is his independents day. If he wins over that group of voters, could he win the Hoosier State?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Bernie Sanders is hoping for a big victory in Indiana, a state that could prove very friendly to the Vermont senator. Eighty- three delegates up for grabs, and today's winner will be decided by independents who will be eligible to vote due to the state's open primary.
At a rally, Sanders pointed out his appeal to this key group and how it could help in November.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We appeal to virtually all the Democrats, but we do a lot better with independents than Secretary Clinton.
(CHEERS)
[09:20:07] And I hope that Democrats at the National Convention understand that while independents may not be able to vote in certain Democratic primaries, they do vote in the general election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: CNN's Chris Frates is at a polling station in Indianapolis.
Good morning, Chris.
CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Carol.
As you can see, voting underway behind me, as is the expectation games among these campaigns. Clinton campaign telling they wouldn't be surprised if Sanders was able to pull out a victory here despite the polling showing Hillary Clinton a little bit ahead. And the reasons they point to are threefold.
Number one, $2 million in advertising. That's what Bernie Sanders has spent here. Hillary Clinton hasn't spent nearly a dime here in advertising.
Number two. The demographics here is a predominantly white population here in Indiana. Bernie Sanders does better among white voters than Hillary Clinton does.
And number three, you look at it, an open primary. That means independents can vote in this Democratic primary. They tend to favor Bernie Sanders as well.
Now, the Clinton folks aren't worried set, because Bernie Sanders has to win by huge margins in order to cut into Hillary Clinton's delegate lead. They don't expect that to happen.
Now, Bernie Sanders feeling pretty good going into today. In fact, they say the still workers endorsement that they got is a big deal here in this manufacturing state. In fact, Bernie Sanders is scheduled to sit down with the union leader over at Carrier -- Carrier, of course, is making headlines for sending jobs from Indiana to Mexico.
Hillary Clinton not really campaigning here today or yesterday. In fact, she was in Virginia yesterday, and she apologized there for something she said during a CNN town hall debate. She said that she would kill jobs, and she would kill coal mining jobs and coal mining companies. She said that was taken out of context.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know how to explain it, other than what I said was totally out of context from what I meant, because I have been talking about helping coal country for a very long time. I did put out a plan last summer. And it was a misstatement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRATES: So there you have pretty big apology from Hillary Clinton, in coal country. That's ahead of the big West Virginia primary next week.
So, we'll keep eye on that, also keep an eye here in Indiana and these close races. You know, can Hillary Clinton put a w on the board or does Bernie Sanders get it. Either way, we're going to be watching all day long, Carol.
CASTELLO: Yes, we will. Chris Frates reporting live from Indianapolis this morning.
Bernie Sanders may pull a surprise and win Indiana. It's possible. The Clinton campaign knows it, and it's downplaying expectations big time. Spokesman Brian Fallon saying, quote, "He Sanders has spent millions of dollars in Indiana. Indiana is also a state where, demographically, and that fact it's an open primary, resembles very closely a lot of states where he has had his biggest wins.
So, let's talk about that more.
With me now, Chris Kofinis, Democratic strategist, and Larry Sabato, director at the University of Virginia Center for Politics.
Welcome to both of you.
LARRY SABATO, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: Thanks, Carol.
CHRIS KOFINIS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thanks, Carol.
COSTELLO: Good morning. So, Chris, I want to start with you. Independents can vote today,
Sanders says Democrats should remember that they also vote in the general election, and that he does better with them. That's a valid argument, right?
KOFINIS: It's a valid argument, but one of the challenges I think you have, is the reality that you can only be the general election candidate if you win the primary. And right now, you know, Senator Sanders is simply behind. He needs -- not just simply he needs to win. He needs to win by such significant margins and move some of the super delegates.
And that's just not realistically going to happen. At least I haven't seen any sig that it is. He may pull an upset today. The demographics and composition of the state favor him.
But, you know, at best case, he wins a few more delegates. Then you keep moving along. It's kind of where I think the Democratic primary race has fallen into this, this pattern of we're going to stay in, see what happens, but not really much changes.
COSTELLO: Could the momentum change at all, Larry?
SABATO: Well, the momentum of the rhetoric could change, certainly this would charge up Bernie Sanders and his backers if he were able to pull what would only be a mild upset.
Chris is correct. The Indiana electorate for Democrats is only going to be about two thirds Democratic. One-third will be independents. We've seen enough primaries to know that Hillary Clinton gets in trouble when the percentage of Democrats falls below 78 to 80 percent.
So, this could be a close election. Bernie Sanders could pull an upset. He will use that to say the momentum is changing. That the delegate numbers can change.
[09:25:01] But the practical fact of the matter is, Carol, Democrats allocate delegates proportionately. It's very different than the Republican side, where you can actually have a winner take all contest. Not possible.
So, even if Bernie Sanders won by a few percentage points he probably would get one or two more delegates than Hillary Clinton.
COSTELLO: Interesting. So, Chris, for her part, Hillary Clinton, well she is looking ahead, right, to future primaries, including West Virginia, where she had to confront comments she made on the coal industry. Here is what Clinton said initially in March and what she said yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I am the only candidate which has a policy about how to bring economic opportunity using clean renewable energy as the key in the coal country, because we're going to put a lot of coal miners and coal companies out of business. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to know how you can say you're going
to put a lot of coal miners out of job and then come in here and tell us how you're going to be our friend, because those people out there don't see you as a friend.
CLINTON: I know that. And you know, I'm -- I don't know how to explain it, other than what I said was totally out of context from what I meant, because I have been talking about helping coal country for a very long time. And I did put out a plan last summer. And it was a mis-statement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: You know, in her initial statement, Chris, she said she would help find coal miners find work, if they indeed lose their jobs. But as you know, sometimes only part of the statement resonates. Does that hurt Hillary Clinton among working class people, because she already has a problem there?
KOFINIS: Well, it definitely, it definitely hurts her in West Virginia. In fairness to Secretary Clinton, she admitted she misspoke, if you listen to her statement, it's clear what she was trying to say. There is a reality, if you travel through West Virginia, as I have, being senator's chief of staff, there are some real profound structural and economic realities to what is happening in that part of the country. But you know, these are incredibly good, proud people in this state. When they hear that, they don't necessarily, you know, expand the argument and try to look at in what perspective you're trying to say. They become very defensive understandably.
So, I think she's going to have a real challenge in that state and probably will require more clean-up down the road. But at this point, again, even if she loses West Virginia, it does not change the fundamental dynamics of the race.
COSTELLO: And, Larry, one more question to you. Hillary Clinton hinted that she would bring bill Clinton out of retirement, so he could create some of these manufacturing jobs. Would something like that resonate in a state like West Virginia?
SABATO: Well, it might resonate somewhat. West Virginia has become a very reliably Republican state. Quite a switch from most of the 20th century. Even though this is a gaffe, it is not an out of context statement.
Hillary Clinton made a serious gaffe. She has almost no chance to win West Virginia, or Kentucky or the other coal states in November. So, in he terms of long-term mistakes, I don't know if it affects the electoral at all.
COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. Chris Kofinis, Larry Sabato, thanks so much.
Coming up in THE NEWSROOM: Ron Paul shaking up presidential races in the past. What does he have to say about this one? He'll join me next.
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