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Cruz Hammers Trump. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 03, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:04] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Mr. Blitzer, thank you very much.

Great to be with you on this Tuesday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching CNN's special coverage of today's Indiana primary.

And, listen, if the stakes weren't high enough today for Ted Cruz, the presidential candidate himself just made them skyrocket on the day Hoosiers go to the polls. He unleashed on Donald Trump, who has been on track to win Indiana, a state that just a couple of weeks ago was supposed to be Ted Cruz country. Cruz let loose in response to Donald Trump spreading tabloid headlines about Cruz's own father, then rounded up his remarkable tirade by saying it is up to Indiana voters to save the nation from, quote/unquote "the abyss." Watch for yourself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This morning, Donald Trump went on national television and attacked my father. Donald Trump alleges that my dad was involved in assassinating JFK. Now, let's be clear, this is nuts. This is not a reasonable position. This is just kooky. And while I'm at it, I guess I should go ahead and admit, yes, my dad killed JFK, he is secretly Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa is buried in his backyard.

You know, Donald's source for this is "The National Enquirer." "The National Enquirer" is tabloid trash. But it's run by his good friend, David Pecker, the CEO, who's endorsed Donald Trump. And so "The National Enquirer" has become his hit piece that he uses to smear anybody and everybody.

And this is not the first time Donald Trump has used David Pecker's "National Enquirer" to go after my family. It was also "The National Enquirer" that went after my wife, Heidi. That just spread lies, blatant lies. But I guess Donald was dismayed because it was a couple of weeks ago "The Enquirer" wrote this idiotic story about JFK. And Donald was dismayed that the folks in the media weren't repeating this latest idiocy, so he figured he'd have to do it himself. He'd have to go on national television and accuse my dad of that.

Listen, my father has been my hero my whole life. My dad was imprisoned and tortured in Cuba. And when he came to America, he had nothing. He had $100 in his underwear. He washed dishes making 50 cents an hour. You know, he's exactly the kind of person Donald Trump looks down on. I'm going to do something I haven't done for the entire campaign for

those of you all who have traveled with me all across the country, I'm going to tell you what I really think of Donald Trump. This man is a pathological liar. He doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. He lies practically every word that comes out of his mouth. And in a pattern that I think is straight out of a psychology textbook, his response is to accuse everybody else of lying. He accuses everybody on that debate state of lying. And it's simply a mindless yell. Whatever he does, he accuses everyone else of doing. The man cannot tell the truth, but he combines it with being a narcissist. A narcissist at a level I don't think this country's ever seen. Donald Trump is such a narcissist that Barack Obama looks at him and goes, dude, what's your problem?

Everything in Donald's world is about Donald. And he combines being a pathological liar. And I say pathological because I actually think Donald, if you hooked him up to a lie detector test, he could say one thing in the morning, one thing at noon and one thing in the evening, all contradictory and he'd pass the lie detector test each time. Whatever lie he's telling, at that minute he believes it.

But the man is utterly amoral.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, senator -

CRUZ: Let - let me finish this, please. The man is utterly amoral. Morality does not exist for him. It's why he went after Heidi directly and smeared my wife, attacked her. Apparently she's not pretty enough for Donald Trump. I may be biased, but I think if he's making that allegation, he's also legally blind.

But Donald is a bully. You know, we just visited with fifth graders. Every one of us knew bullies in elementary school. Bullies don't come from strength, bullies come from weakness. Bullies come from a deep, yawning cavern of insecurity. There is a reason Donald builds giant buildings and puts his name on them everywhere he goes.

[14:05:15] And I will say, there are millions of people in this country who are angry. They're angry at Washington. They're angry at politicians who have lied to them. I understand that anger. I share that anger. And Donald is cynically exploiting that anger and he is lying to his supporters. Donald will betray his supporters on every issue. If you care about immigration, Donald is laughing at you. And he's telling the moneyed elites he doesn't believe what he's saying. He's not going to build a wall. That's what he told "The New York Times." He will betray you on every issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: OK. Matt Lewis is a CNN political commentator and a senior contributor to "The Daily Caller," Mark Preston is CNN Politics executive editor. Gentlemen, my goodness.

Matt Lewis, before we get - actually let me assure everyone here, Mr. Trump has reacted to that, so we'll have that in a moment. But on Cruz, Matt to you first, you say, where was this Ted Cruz six months ago. Yes?

MATT LEWIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. Look, Ted - I think Cruz is right about everything he's saying about Donald Trump, but let's not forget for months and months Ted Cruz provided cover for Donald Trump when he said horrible things about Mexicans being rapists, about POWs, about Megyn Kelly. Ted Cruz said this isn't - he's my friend. That he's just fighting political correctness. And I like - I like Donald. And so now Cruz - you know, now Cruz, I think he sees that the jig is up. I mean this is sort of like the - maybe the last day of this campaign and I think he's speaking truth to power right now, but where was this guy before?

BALDWIN: Do you agree, Mark Preston? I mean I've heard, you know, either assessing, you know, thinking this is the end of the road for him, so why the heck not. Just let it rip. Or, you know, this is truly deep down how Ted Cruz has felt for so long and now, finally, before he goes out, he's getting something off his chest?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: I think it's all of the above. I think that Ted Cruz probably has felt this way about Donald Trump since day one, certainly day one of this campaign, and he thought politically it would be smart to embrace Donald Trump and at some point Donald Trump would have imploded and he wouldn't be the frontrunner at this point in the campaign.

You know, Ted Cruz, today, I mean it really did seem, in many ways, to be a last gasp, a last desperate attempt to try to sully, you know, Donald Trump, throw these accusations at him. And perhaps, you know, I don't think it's going to have any effect on tonight's primary in Indiana, but maybe he is trying to plant a seed in these - in these last states, these last nine remaining states, to try to cast as much doubt as he can to try to stop Donald Trump from getting 1,237 delegates.

BALDWIN: OK, I know you two have seen this. Let me read this for everyone else keeping score. Donald Trump has responded. Let me read the whole thing for you. Quote, "Ted Cruz is a desperate candidate trying to save his failing campaign. It is no surprise he has resorted to his usual tactics of over the top rhetoric that nobody believes. Over the last week I have watched lyin' Ted become more and more unhinged as he's unable to react under the pressure and stress of losing in all cases by landslides the last six primary elections. In fact, coming in last place in all but one of them. Today's ridiculous outburst only proves what I've been saying for a long time, that Ted Cruz does not have the temperament to be president of the United States."

Matt, just looping back to you, if you say there is - there is truth to, you know, the charged attacks Senator Cruz is making, Mark Preston thinks it won't hurt Trump. Do you agree?

LEWIS: Yes, I agree. Look, the people - you know, people who are supporting Trump for a variety of reasons, but they're not -

BALDWIN: Why not? LEWIS: They're not going to be moved by what Ted Cruz is saying

because Ted Cruz is not saying anything different today than I haven't been saying for the past year, that Marco Rubio said.

BALDWIN: But you're not running for president.

LEWIS: Marco Rubio said this - yes, that's true. In fairness, my reach isn't quite as long. But Marco Rubio said the same thing. And I'll - and I'll even draw a parallel to Rubio. Like this - this reminds me of Marco Rubio, the last days -

BALDWIN: Yes, the hand size, the pant wetting.

LEWIS: Right. This is what happens before, like at the very end, when all else fails, you tell the truth and you throw everything you have at Ted - at Donald Trump and it doesn't seem to work.

BALDWIN: Mark Preston, do you think - you know, now that we have these two adult men throwing these kinds of jabs at one another, eventually there will be just one. How will this help or hurt the unification of the party because that's kind of been an issue?

PRESTON: Well, you know, look, I think that if you are inclined to support Donald Trump, you're going to support him. If you are looking at the inevitability and you are a party faithful person, then you probably will line up - maybe grudgingly line up behind Donald Trump. But I do think there is going to be an element of Republicans, certainly the establishment types, that are not going to line up behind Donald Trump and there's been a lot of talk of would they go and support Hillary Clinton? You know, perhaps some of them will. But I don't think so in an overwhelming way. I think that for a lot of Republicans who fear Donald Trump as their nominee, they're just hoping to get beyond the November election and they're already looking right now, Brooke, four years down the road to the next presidential election.

[14:10:24] BALDWIN: Which could be one reason why we haven't seen Rubio endorse anyone.

Same question to you, Matt.

LEWIS: What's the question?

BALDWIN: The question is about party unification.

LEWIS: Sorry. Oh yes.

BALDWIN: And whether or not that happens!

LEWIS: I think most people will come around, grudgingly. Look, the - I think a lot of the never Trump folks will be the never - will become never Hillary. There will be a certain number of holdouts, the people who I think are intellectually honest and very principled. But I think most people - look, we are - you know, there are all these sort of invisible forces that push people to make a binary choice. If you're a politician, if you're an operative, even if you're a commentator, the world wants you to pick a side. And you're either on the Republican side or the Democratic side. And there's not a lot of space for Hillary's horrible but on the other hand I don't like Donald Trump's populism. That doesn't really sell that well in our political media world.

BALDWIN: What was the question? Matt Lewis! Matt Lewis, we'll have you back. Don't you worry.

LEWIS: All right. OK.

BALDWIN: Mark Preston, thank you so much. Nice to see you and have you as my seat mate Saturday night. Thank you, as well.

Coming up next, much more on these explosive comments from Ted Cruz, including, you know, what he said about how Trump treats women. We'll also get direct reaction from a senior member of the Trump campaign.

You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People who are insecure about who they are, Donald is terrified by strong women. He lashes out at them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:15:54] BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin. You're watching special live coverage of today's critical primary in Indiana.

We've been talking quite a bit so far about Ted Cruz's spectacular tirade against Donald Trump on this make or break day of voting. Let me play you just a little bit more. Ted Cruz unloading on the Republican Party's frontrunner, Donald Trump, after Trump repeated a tabloid report about Cruz's dad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And his strategy of being a bully in particular is directed at women. Donald has a real problem with women. People who are insecure, people who are insecure about who they are, Donald is terrified by strong women. He lashes out at them.

Remember, this is the same Donald Trump who last week here in Indiana proudly touted the endorsement from Mike Tyson, a convicted rapist who served three years in prison here in Indiana for raping a 17-year-old girl. And in Donald's world, he said Mike Tyson was a tough guy. I don't think rapists are tough guys. I spent a lot of years in law enforcement dealing with rapists. Rapists are weak. They are cowards and they're bullies. And anyone that thinks they're a tough guy, that reveals everything about Donald Trump's character.

Donald Trump said Bill Clinton was targeted by unattractive women. You know what? I've been blessed to be surrounded by strong women my entire life. Today is voting day here in Indiana. The president of the United States has a bully pulpit unlike anybody else. The president of the United States affects our culture. I ask the people of Indiana, think about the next five years if this man were to become president. Think about the next five years, the boasting, the pathological lying, the picking up "The National Enquirer" and accusing people of killing JFK, the bullying. Think about your kids coming back and emulating this.

For people in Indiana who long for a day when we were nice to each other. When we treated people with respect. When we didn't engage in sleaze and lies and I would note one of the lies he engages in, listen. Donald Trump is a serial philanderer and he boasts about it. This is not a secret. He's proud of being a serial philanderer.

I want everyone to think about your teenage kids. The president of the United States talks about how great it is to commit adultery. How proud he is, describes his battles with venereal disease as his own personal Vietnam. That's a quote, by the way, on "The Howard Stern Show." Do you want to spend the next five years with your kids bragging about infidelity?

Now, what does he do? He does the same projection, just like a pathological liar, he accuses everyone of lying, even though he boasts about his infidelity. He plants in David Pecker's "National Enquirer" a lie about me and my family, attacking my family. He accuses others of doing what he is doing.

I'll tell you, as the father of two young girls, the idea of our daughters coming home and repeating any word that man says horrifies me. That is not who America is. And I would say to the Hoosier state, the entire country's depending on you. The entire country is looking to you right now. It is only Indiana that can pull us back. It is only the good sense and good judgment of Indiana that can pull us back. We are staring at the abyss.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:20:03] BALDWIN: Joining me now, Healy Baumgardner, a senior press representative for the Trump campaign, Genevieve Wood, a former spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee, who is now a senior contributor to "The Daily Signal," And Pete Seat, Pete was communications director for the Indiana Republican Party and is now a senior project manager at Hathaway Strategies, a public affairs consulting firm that has advised Ohio Governor John Kasich's campaign.

So, welcome to all of you.

And, Haley, out of the gate, Senator Cruz is talking about your candidate, pathological liar, amoral, narcissist. Care to respond?

HEALY BAUMGARDNER, SENIOR PRESS REPRESENTATIVE, TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT: I - I don't know whether to laugh because it's so comical or to cry because it's truly sad. I think this is just indicative of Ted Cruz knowing that his campaign is in a free for all and, quite frankly, this type of response is him being a bully and it's incredibly unpresidential. BALDWIN: You know Barry Bennett was also on. He's another Trump adviser. He used the exact same word you did, "sad." But I have to push you and say, how is this any different from your candidate saying over and over and over, lyin' Ted, lyin' Ted, lyin' Ted?

BAUMGARDNER: Well, I think that, you know, to brand Ted Cruz as he is, he is a liar. He flip flops not only on the issues but -

BALDWIN: How is it OK for Trump to say that but not for Senator Cruz?

BAUMGARDNER: Well, I'm not saying that it's incorrect for, you know, Ted Cruz to be speaking and saying what he feels. I'm just saying that it's not presidential and it's indicative of him knowing that his campaign is near the end.

BALDWIN: Pete Seat, what do you think this is about here?

PETE SEAT, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, INDIANA REPUBLICAN PARTY: Well, clearly, Senator Cruz became unhinged, which I guess is the natural step after desperation. But you pinpointed it perfectly, Brooke. This just highlights what Donald Trump has been doing this entire election cycle. He has offended minorities, Hispanics, women, veterans, you name it. He has been lashing out at anyone who crosses his line of sight. Neither Ted Cruz nor Donald Trump have proven that they have the temperament to be commander in chief. And I think that's why you're going to see a lot of people in the Hoosier state today, even though John Kasich is not actively campaigning, they're going to vote for him because he has not sullied the process the way these two gentlemen have.

BALDWIN: I have a lot of questions for you, sir, on Indiana. But first, let me play a mash-up just so we all can remember from a couple of months ago this bro-mance between these two now rivals. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ted Cruz is a friend of mine and a good guy.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A big fan of Donald Trump's. And I'll say this, I think Donald Trump is bringing a bold, brash voice to this presidential race.

TRUMP: Well, it is a little bit of a romance. I like him. He likes me. He's backed me 100 percent.

CRUZ: Look, Donald Trump is a friend of mine. I like and respect Donald. Many of the other Republican candidates have used this opportunity to take a stick and smack Donald Trump. I ain't going to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Genevieve, what - I mean you laugh.

GENEVIEVE WOOD, FORMER SPOKESWOMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Yes.

BALDWIN: It's important to remind everyone how they felt, or at least how they said they felt months ago. What do you think about that?

WOOD: I mean - well, you never see flip flopping like you do in a presidential campaign where people, I mean, what they said a month ago is completely different than what they're saying today.

Brooke, I will tell you, I think what we've seen over the last day or two, it's really unfortunate. I mean this is not what either of these candidates should be talking about. And, you know, Donald Trump is not being successful because he's running around with lyin' Ted or little Marco or any of the other kind of, you know, names he's given to different candidates. That's not why he's been successful this election season. It is because of the issues that he's raised and brought up. Whether you agree with him or not, he's talked about issues that people cared about.

And, frankly, Ted Cruz, I mean, I am really disappointed to see this because he's got a lot of great ideas about how to get this country back on track. If you look at Indiana, one of the - like every other state, you ask people what they're concerned about, they say the economy, they say jobs. Ted Cruz should be out there talking about how he wants to get rid of Obamacare, how he wants to get rid of regulations that are hurting the economy and making it harder for people to create jobs. That's what the people of Indiana ought to - want to hear about. What are you going to do to make my life better? They don't want to hear about Mike Tyson. I mean that - I just, you know, I understand he's frustrated and maybe he's wanted to say a lot of this for some time, but I just - I think it's unfortunate that it's come to this.

BALDWIN: I always try to think like the viewer, especially someone in Indiana, are they even like watching and parsing all these words as closely as I know we all are.

Pete, to you. You know, Genevieve brings up a great point, just on issues for folks in the Hoosier state. You have your finger on the pulse. I'm curious, you know, I know you have said, to people think - who think they know how the Hoosiers vote, you say, hang on, it's not as cut and dry as they think. Explain that for me.

SEAT: Well, absolutely. You look back to 2008 where Hoosiers split their tickets and voted for Mitch Daniels as governor and Barack Obama to be president of the United States. We're likely going to have another scenario like that tonight. If Donald Trump wins the state, the U.S. Senate candidate and the Republican primary is likely to be Todd Young, who is more the establishment candidate, someone who's more pragmatic. He doesn't lash out at people the way Donald Trump does. So Hoosiers split their tickets and they really look at what the candidates are talking about, what issues are important to them.

[14:25:30] I think when it comes to Ted Cruz in this state, he was given a prime opportunity to earn votes, but he failed to do so. He failed to really make the case to Hoosier voters, those swing moderate voters, that he need to win Indiana, that he's the one that they should pull the lever for. He had a chance and he blew it.

BALDWIN: Healy, you want to jump in?

BAUMGARDNER: Oh, he totally blew it. I mean I think the bottom line is, is that Mr. Trump is earning the votes of the American people based on merit. He's not stumping with talking points and typical D.C. rhetoric. He's having conversations at rallies and out while he's campaigning that people are having behind their closed doors. That's refreshing. He's a winner. His success is proven in his business. And we look forward to winning Indiana tonight and to making America great again.

BALDWIN: If that is the case, Genevieve, final question to you, you know, and everyone will be listening to how Ted Cruz sort of classifies his loss or how big of a loss it could be. It may not be huge. I don't know yet. I can't predict the future.

WOOD: Yes, we don't know.

BALDWIN: We don't know. But how do you think he should speak about Donald Trump? If at all.

WOOD: Well, I mean, I would like to see - look, as a conservative, I'm somebody who said from the get-go, I'm going to be for whoever wins at the end of this thing and I'm going to get behind them. And I would like for all these candidates who took that pledge back, what, five months ago, whenever it was, saying, I will support ultimately whoever the nominee ends up being, I think that's what they should all do. And I think, again, I know that means that they're going to have to change a lot of what they've said in the last couple of days, but as we saw from the tape you played earlier, that's not impossible to do. They can find ways to come to agreement on this. And I think that's what they should all do.

BALDWIN: Genevieve Wood, Healy Baumgardner and Pete Seat, thank you all so, so much. A huge day in Indiana. Appreciate your time.

Next, Ted Cruz, you know, getting snubbed by a key group that has supported him in other states. When is happening in Indiana on conservative radio? We'll talk to a radio host about that.

And on the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton opening up today about how painkiller addiction has affected her own friends. Getting personal there in West Virginia. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)