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Trump Wins Indiana Republican Primary; Democratic Race Virtually Tied. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired May 3, 2016 - 19:00   ET


[18:59:59] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The Eastern Time zone, the Central Time zone at which point we will be able to make a projection.

CNN projects that Donald Trump will win the Republican presidential primary in the state of Indiana. Another very, very big win for Donald Trump. This is a huge win. He was effectively going one on one with Ted Cruz, he manages to pull out a win in Indiana. This is something that Ted Cruz really needed almost make or break for Ted Cruz. Donald Trump is the winner. Let's take a look at the actual votes that are coming in right now. We have a key race alert first. Too early to call on the Democratic side. Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders based on all the information, the actual votes that have been tallied as well as the exit poll information, we are not able to make a projection on the Democratic side. Too early to call.

But let's take a look at the actual votes right now. First, on the Republican side, we projected Donald Trump is the winner with nine percent of the vote in. He's got a very solid lead. 54.2 percent. 32.8 percent for Ted Cruz. John Kasich only 10 percent. He's up by more than 20,000 votes but based on all the information we have, we have projected Trump is the winner in the Indiana Republican primary. On the Democratic side, seven percent of the vote is in. Hillary Clinton maintains her lead. 53.3 percent. 46.7 percent for Bernie Sanders but it's too early to call. Too early to call in the Democratic side but Trump wins the Indiana Republican presidential primary. That is our projection -- Anderson.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Wolf, let's check in with Jeffrey Lord. And I guess no surprise to you. What is this moving forward? Is this it?

JEFFREY LORD, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, yes, I do think this is it. I mean, Ted Cruz may last a little longer but I think this is it. The psychological momentum here is just going to be incredible. Now, one of the things that just reverberates over and over and over again is in essence, the only folks for him are the voters, the people. They keep doing this over and over and over again and yet you got all these establishment leaders saying, oh, I can't do this, I can't do that or I'm horrified right now, and vote for Hillary Clinton and then we keep having these serious of nights just like this. He's over 50 percent, they said he had this ceiling and he had that ceiling. I mean, the message has got to be delivered now. Donald Trump is going to be the Republican presidential nominee, period.

COOPER: S.E. Cupp, is that the message -- S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think so. But I think it's

been the message for quite some time. I've long accepted that Donald Trump is going to be the nominee and I think he's going to clinch before the convention --

COOPER: What stage of grief are you in?


CUPP: I'm in acceptance.


CUPP: I'm past bargaining.

COOPER: OK, remove the undenial.

CUPP: Yes. What can I give you to make this go away? No. You know, this seemed clear to me over the past few primaries. These were decisive victories and as I've said before, he's been winning in places, I just -- the kind of countries with the kind of voters, I just would never expect. So, I think that's inevitable. I will say it's not necessarily the death of the Never Trump movement. The Never Trump movement might have started as call to arms. It's more of like a personal philosophy, right? Sort of, I need to be on record that I was not okay with this, that I did not support this and I still don't support it and I'm going to take some names of the people who have said that and, you know, to see if you case over the course of the general election.

LORD: Sort of Never Trump and never never land.

CUPP: Look, I mean, there's -- I don't think they are stopping Trump but at the same time there is not insignificant number of Republicans who think that this is not something that Republicans should support and be tied to and marry over the course of the general election so it's more a stand on principle than practically now but still an important one for many of us.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Let me ask you this and you got somebody at the top of your ticket. You have to pay attention to who that person is. And maybe you have to run like you're running for sheriff, maybe you have to run a local race. But what do you do if you're a candidate and you want to survive and people, you know ticket splitting (ph) is not something people love to do in this country. So --

CUPP: If you're Kelly Ayotte, you mean -- if you're Mark Kirk --

BORGER: Well, it depends where you are. Right? It depends where you're from. But let's say Republicans are concerned about saving the House of Representatives. Let's say.


BORGER: Which is really important. What do you do with Trump at the top?

CUPP: Well, I know what they are doing. I know what folks like Kelly Ayotte and Mark Kirk are doing --

BORGER: They are Senate, let's say House.

CUPP: Oh, I mean, yes, you run a very local election that has nothing to do with Washington and what's going on in the country but it's also in addition for the Senate of the House and for those reasons, it's about the Supreme Court and so there are so many --

COOPER: Why wouldn't you try to embrace Donald Trump? If you're running in the House, I mean, he's bringing in all these voters, why wouldn't you embrace him?

CUPP: Because this idea that Donald Trump the primary front-runner is going to be embraced by some way, in the same way by general election voters is a fantasy. I mean, I know you think it's a new phenomenon --

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Can I argue with you? Go ahead.

CUPP: I think there is going to be a reckoning come the general.

[19:05:16] JONES: Listen, I hate to agree with Jeffrey Lord on anything ever. Going on the record, I hate to agree with him on anything. So, I'm on record for that. However, I think that he is going to surprise people again, Donald Trump. I've been screaming at Liberals for the past several days. Liberals right now sound a lot more like some people in the Republican Party, this guy can't win.

CUPP: But you just don't want them to become complacent. That is way.

JONES: Listen, it's not just a complacent to the argument. Obviously, we've become complacent taken too lightly we might get beat. But Donald Trump has stuff going for him that will work in a general election.

BORGER: Can we say this is a historic? This is a man who came from outside the party apparatus, took over the Republican Party --

JONES: I noticed that.

BORGER: -- has inspired thousands and thousands of people, millions to come to the polls who don't normally participate and won in a big way tonight won in a big way last week.

COOPER: Let's hear from David Axelrod and Michael Smerconish who just joined us now.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Well, look, I think it's one thing to say, well, we'll going to run our local races. If you're running for the United States Senate, if you're running for the Congress, it's very hard to disassociate yourself from your candidate for president of the United States.

CUPP: Exactly.

AXELROD: And this is what Republicans are going to have to wrestle with. And yes, Donald Trump has pulled off a miraculous thing here being on the doorstep of winning the nomination of the Republican Party, but he is still not proven that he's not a big liability with the rest of the election.

CUPP: Right.

COOPER: So if you're Ted Cruz, though --

AXELROD: Unbelievably high negatives.

COOPER: Do you think Ted Cruz stays in this? Do you think he stays in a matter of pride for a while or --

AXELROD: No, I think he'll stay in it. First of all, the reason he said he'll going to stay in it until there is a clenching. I'm sure he will do that. And I think, you know, he's kind of hoping that some, you know he's a man of deep faith, maybe he is hoping for some divine intervention here between now and the time the 1237 arrives.

COOPER: Michael?

CUPP: You can start appointing ambassadors and send them overseas.


MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR, "SMERCONISH": For a long time the idea I think was --

AXELROD: You won't be one of them.


SMERCONISH: If someone or some small group of candidates could get Donald Trump in this race and clear the field and then they would be able to beat him and maybe at one time that would have been true because he was able to get this far with a solid one-third of the Republican electorate and then not much better but between the Acela primary and what's happened here tonight, something has changed. Right? He's broken the ceilings that previously existed. And I guess Republicans are warming to the fact this is going to be our guy. But it's a big defeat for Ted Cruz because this was a state in many respects that was tailor made --

COOPER: Also success breeds success. There is sort of a vulnerability.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: That is exactly right. For Ted Cruz, if not what he didn't do in Indiana. It's what he didn't do in the previous six contests. He didn't win any of those contests, he didn't look close at all, he didn't look competitive and so we see that in Indiana. He was supposed to have a really good May --

COOPER: Right.

HENDERSON: And really do well but now, you know, they are thinking about South Dakota and Montana when before they were thinking about many more states.

COOPER: Let's go back to Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Anderson. The very fact that CNN called this race at the time of poll closing shows that Donald Trump is not just projected to win but he is projected to win likely by a very large margin, otherwise CNN wouldn't call it so soon after polls closing.

Let's bring in Political Director David Chalian to try to figure out how he did it because David, as you know, this is a state, Indiana that should be fertile ground for Ted Cruz theoretically in terms of the number and percentage of white e evangelicals protestants, in terms of other demographics sent of rule that have proved very successful for him in the past.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: That's right, Jake. And you know the Cruz campaign saw Indiana as very fertile ground and put everything they possibly had into it. Take a look. You were just talking about white evangelicals. Let's start there. This is behind the Trump victory tonight. So, 54 percent of the electorate in Indiana tonight, call themselves white evangelicals. Trump just edges out Cruz there by three points, 48 percent to 45 percent to five percent for Kasich. Now Trump has beaten Cruz before with this group of white evangelicals but as you know, white evangelicals are supposed to be the bread and butter of the Ted Cruz campaign, this is what is supposed to catapult him ahead of Trump that's not happening here.

Trump actually wins evangelicals. Then let's take a look about those very worried about the U.S. economy. Now, Jake, listen. This is 67 percent of the Indiana primary electorate. Two-thirds of the Republicans showing up to vote today are very worried about the U.S. economy. This is the story of Donald Trump and we may not tell it often enough. His message on the economy is working. He wins them 53 percent to Cruz's 39 percent, to Kasich's six percent. That is a huge victory among a huge swath of voters very worried about the economy. And finally, the outsider thing. We've talked a lot about this. And it is working for Donald Trump.

[19:10:07] Dana was just mentioning before that even though Cruz paints himself as an outsider, Republican primaries voters want the real deal when it comes to the outsider and that's the guy that's never done this before. Seventy six percent for Trump, 17 percent for Cruz and three percent for Kasich. That's 58 percent of the primary electorate there. One is an outsider and they overwhelmingly went for Donald Trump. That is why you can just see that he's going to walk away with this state tonight.

TAPPER: Historic. Really. David Chalian, thanks so much. And Dana, I mean, one of the things that is so striking is the messages that the two candidates have been talking about as they travel the state. Obviously, they talk about a lot of things but generally speaking it seemed to me that Donald Trump was talking a lot about trade deals. Talking a lot about manufacturing, talking about the carrier air conditioning plant.


TAPPER: Sending 1400 jobs from Indiana to Mexico. That was his message for this state that has seen in many ways wages declining and more people entering low-wage jobs for middle wage jobs and Ted Cruz, as far as I can tell was sending a message about Donald Trump and talking about transgender individuals and bathrooms.

BASH: Well, and talking about more traditional conservative values trying to appeal to the social conservatives in that state and people who were not really that thrilled with Donald Trump. And I think this is a good time for us to kind of take the step back and look at this. And remember where we were not that long ago with a slew of candidates in the establishment was saying well, it's going to be better when there's a one on one shot to try to get to Donald Trump. Guess what we had in Indiana tonight.

TAPPER: One on one.

BASH: One on one shot. John Kasich stepped back. Ted Cruz had a mano-o-mano --

TAPPER: He is the one. Ted Cruz is the one saying that he needed his one-on-one --

BASH: Exactly.


BASH: It didn't work. He said he needed someplace that has, you know, some traditional Republicans. I mean, Indiana is incredibly Republican. Obviously, there are some moderates but the bottom-line is that Ted Cruz had a really bad week. He just kind of -- as much as he tried to throw the kitchen sink at Donald Trump, what he ended up doing is every time he threw something out, it took him into a spiral going down.

TAPPER: Right.

BASH: And it just -- it wasn't working with the voters and the main reason, Jake, is because the voters are just done with the Washingtonians and Ted Cruz is one of them and I heard that time and time again. And when I actually just show one thing and I think we have this and --

TAPPER: Because you were just in Indiana.

BASH: I was just in Indiana. I came back this afternoon. Ted Cruz had his final rally last night. And it was -- this is the photo there. I should say, this is a rally put on by his Super PAC. This was not something that his campaign.

TAPPER: That's how he does a lot of --

BASH: Exactly. That's what his campaign did. But the bottom-line is, we were just talking about voters and I think this really illustrates it. This is his ultimate rally. There were a lot of people there who were very passionate about him but not enough. Not enough. And I think that to me --

TAPPER: That looks like the crowd for debating --

BASH: I wasn't. Yes. I mean, there were -- he got an okay crowd but it wasn't the kind of crowd you need to take it over the edge in a place where you say you were putting everything in.

TAPPER: And one other point about the religious conservatives, the evangelical voters that turned out. But according to exit polls actually voted, more voted for Donald Trump. There was a great analysis and politico that talks to a lot of people in Indiana. They -- a lot of the voters in Indiana including consecutive evangelical Republicans are tired of that fight. They just went through the whole religious liberty fight about that bill in Indiana and whether or not there would be protections for individuals and there was all sorts of boycotts of Indiana discussed and a lot of Republicans turning against the Governor Mike Pence and there a lot of exhausted, exhausted Republicans on that issue. So, when Ted Cruz started talking about transgender individuals in bathrooms, that wasn't something that resonated with many of them.

BASH: Just to put a final point on that about people being tired of the fight. Even at that rally, you just heard the picture of, I talked to a lot of people who were there to hear Ted Cruz who said, you know what, I think I'm going to vote for Donald Trump because I don't want to fight anymore. I don't want a contested convention. And a vote for Ted Cruz is a contested convention. They are done.

TAPPER: Interesting. Wolf Blitzer has a key race alert. Mr. Blitzer.

BLITZER: All right. Thank you. We certainly do. Let's take a look. In Indiana and the Republican side we projected Donald Trump is the winner right now with 14 percent of the vote already counted. 54.1 percent. Cruz 34 percent. Kasich done it, 9.1 percent. On the Democratic side, we have not yet made a projection. Twelve percent of the voters in. Look at how close to this. 51.7 percent for Hillary Clinton. 48.3 percent for Bernie Sanders. What does Donald Trump's win mean tonight for the GOP nomination? We're taking a closer look at that as we hate to hear directly from Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. They will have live reaction from tonight's results, we're also standing by for remarks by Bernie Sanders. The race with Hillary Clinton in Indiana is still playing out right now. Much more of our special coverage right after this.


[19:19:25] BLITZER: Welcome back. We're waiting to hear from Donald Trump. He's over at Trump Tower in New York. He's getting ready. Big win for him tonight. Ted Cruz, we're waiting to hear from him. He is in Indianapolis, Indiana. Very important to see the tone of what he has to say. He suffers a major setback tonight. Bernie Sanders a Louisville, Kentucky right now. We'll going to hear from him as well. Let's get a key race alert right now, we'll update you where things stand on the Democratic side.

First, Hillary Clinton maintains the lead but look at how tight is this right now, with 14 percent of the vote actually counted. She's ahead by less than 2,000 votes. 50.9 percent to Bernie Sanders 49.1 percent. Very, very close. The actual votes on the Democratic side. On the Republican side, 17 percent of the vote is in. Donald Trump we projected he's the winner. He's got a 20-point lead over Ted Cruz right now with 17 percent of the vote and 54 percent to 34.6 percent. Kasich down at 8.6 percent. A big, big win. Huge win for Donald Trump in Indiana right now.

Let's look forward and bring in Mark Preston, our CNN politics executive editor. This delegate count very, very significant. What do we know?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, Wolf, at this point we awarded 33 delegates to Donald Trump tonight. In early win for him to get on the board. Thirty of those delegates is because he won the state of Indiana and we've awarded him three delegates for winning one of the Congressional districts. Twenty four delegates left on the board tonight to be one by Mr. Cruz. Mr. Trump or Mr. Kasich. But let's look at the overall total as we try to get to 1237. Right now Donald Trump has 1,035 delegates right now to his name. Ted Cruz only has 572 close for John Kasich lagging far behind at 156. As you can see, Wolf, Donald Trump is getting closer and closer to that magical number of 1237 to avoid the contested convention in Cleveland in July -- Wolf.

WOLF: All right, Mark. Thank you. He needs 202 more delegates. Let go over to John King. That is obviously very, very doable in the coming weeks.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: As the big story and the big conversation in politics tonight. And as Mark just noted. We're waiting for the rest of the Congressional districts to come in. It's possible the way the map is telling early on that Donald Trump could win them all. He could walk away with all 57. But we have to wait and see the results coming in. At the moment, Ted Cruz is winning or leading only in two counties in the while state of Indiana a ways to go. But it is possible Donald Trump could win them all or maybe lose three, six or nine if he loses one, two or three Congressional districts. What does that mean, Wolf?

This is the conversation, Republicans are having tonight. Whether you like Trump or whether you don't like Trump is that Trump is starting to pull away and get closer at the finish line of 1237. In this scenario, in Indiana, I'm going to go a little further than Mark Preston right now. We have given Donald Trump 48 here. So, we got a big win statewide and this gives Ted Cruz nine still. There is no evidence at the moment he's going to get those. I'm being conservative here to try to keep the numbers. We'll watch as this plays out. So, as we come out, you see Donald Trump here at 1005, you might add nine more.

So where are we going from here? Look at the map. A pattern is developing. So, let's assume the pattern persists and let's start with Senator Cruz and say that he continues to win Nebraska next week. Let's say that he continues to win here in the west. We'll stop there for now. Is there anybody who wants to argue Donald Trump on the last day if he's not going to win New Jersey? But that's winner take all. Donald Trump is going to win West Virginia. This is a little technical because they are technically unbound. I'll come back to that in a minute. So then you come out here, there is a poll right now that has Donald Trump leading in Oregon. That gets him at 1107.

Let's say he wins New Mexico. Maybe John Kasich has the last stand there. John Kasich is running out of money and tonight he's not going to help. In this case here, let's say that Ted Cruz -- let me come back here. There we go. Let's give Ted Cruz Washington State and now we come down Wolf to the final state, California under this scenario that gave Donald Trump 70 percent of the delegates. Here it is, right at the line. 1235 however, remember Pennsylvania last week a lot of those technically unbound delegates said they would support Donald Trump.

They promise to support Donald Trump. Now, they can change their mind. The establishment might make a run at them. But if they stay there, Donald Trump across the finish line. And again, maybe he doesn't get all 70 percent in California but if you just play this out the way the map is going, he's going to get somewhere out here and it is not at all impossible to see him getting across the finish line. It's actually -- you can make a pretty -- given Cruz performance, Kasich performance over the last several weeks not hard to get them there.

BLITZER: I think we can't over emphasize how big of a win this is tonight for Donald Trump.

Choosing time. Yes. Very, very good. Anderson, over to you.

COOPER: And we're obviously going to hear from Donald Trump shortly. We're also going to be listening to Senator Ted Cruz, as well, to see how he tries to paint his loss tonight and what he says about moving forward and what sort of tone he has given what vitriol we have heard between these two candidates over the last several days. Also expecting to hear from Bernie Sanders shortly. And again you cannot underestimate what a big win this is for Trump?

[19:24:06] BORGER: No, it's stunning and it's historic. This is the first nominee of a political party who has not served in elective office since Dwight D. Eisenhower. And, you know, it's simply stunning. This is somebody who tapped into something that the Republican establishment overlooked, which was that their electorate was angry. Their electorate felt betrayed. Their electorate felt that they weren't being represented by the establishment in Washington, and Donald Trump like him or hate him tapped into something that nobody else really saw in a way that he did and he was able to shape this race and win it and now it looks like there isn't going to be a contested convention and Ted Cruz is going to have a difficult time convincing people there will be.

COOPER: David, have you seen a candidate so discounted, underestimate, written off? I mean, at every step of the way, you know, oh, he's not going to enter, he's not going to release his financials, he can never get above the window of 30 percent, 35 percent. I mean, one thing after another.

BORGER: Right.

AXELROD: I absolutely have not and I was guilty like everyone else of thinking that he would be, you know, a summer fling, a full fad and gone by the winter and the fact is he tapped into his -- that is very, very strong among Americans who feel like they have been disadvantaged in the economy and distained by the establishment. Taken for granted. And he really, you know, Donald Trump has a phenomenal sense of his audience. And he played to that audience --

COOPER: He does have sort of antenna like really --

AXELROD: Not just in the way that he makes his appeals to voters but also in the way he characterizers his opponents. He is a marketing genius. You know, this is a guy who said that Flo Ziegfeld, the Broadway promoter was his childhood hero. And he has a great sense of drama and he has a great sense of the crowd and he obviously understands this medium better than anyone. And he is the first Twitter candidate that we've seen for president. I mean, he used social media in a way other candidates having used it to dominate the debate. So, he's proven himself to be very resourceful and very skilled and we'll see how far that takes him now but it's taking him well beyond anywhere anyone anticipated or anyone in this town anticipated he would go.

HENDERSON: Yes, and we mean a presidential or a party's nomination is incredibly hard. I mean, people who run for president and have those aspirations to win a party's nomination, plot their careers, of their political careers for years and years and years. A part of it is skill. And part of it is luck and yes, I think for Donald Trump he essentially had both. He was able to read the electorate, meet I think the moment of the Republican Party, all from New York essentially and probably listening to talk radio to a certain extent, listen to FOX News. Listen to voters. It's really incredible what he was able to do.

COOPER: I should also just point out how close the vote is. Let's take a look at the vote on the Democratic side here. You got Hillary Clinton 50.5 percent. Bernie Sanders 49.5 percent, just I think about 17 percent of the vote in. Bernie Sanders is speaking right now in Louisville. Let's just listen to him.

BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, all right. Well, a lot -- a lot has happened in the last year. As of today we have now won 17 primaries and caucuses.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE) We have received some nine million votes.


When we started this campaign we were 60 points behind Secretary Clinton in national polls. Now a few of the polls actually have us ahead or a few points out.


And I'll tell you what is extremely exciting for me. And that is in primary after primary, caucus after caucus, we end up winning the vote of people 45 years of age or younger.


And that is important because it tells me that the ideas that we are fighting for are the ideas of the future of America --


And the future of the Democratic Party.


I am running for president because we live in the wealthiest nation in the history of the world. But most Americans don't know that because the economy is rigged and almost income and wealth goes to the top one percent.


The issue of wealth and income inequality is the great moral issue of our time, it is the great economic issue of our time. It is the great political issue of our time and together we will address that issue.


Let us be very clear, in America today the top one-tenth-of-one- percent now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent.


[19:30:15] The top 20 people in this country in wealth now own more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans, half of our population.


We've got one family, the Walton family of Walmart.


They are worth $149 billion more wealth than the bottom 40 percent of the American people.

(BOOS) And when you talk about a rigged economy, that is exactly what Walmart and the Walton family are all about. They pay their workers' wages that are so low that the American taxpayer has to pay for the food stamps and the Medicaid that --


The American taxpayer is paying for the food stamps and Medicaid that many Walmart employees need because the wages are too low. Now, it is a little bit nuts in mind when the middle class in this country has to subsidize the employees of the wealthiest family in this country.


But it is not just wealth. It is not just wealth. It is income. In America today, we have millions of people working longer hours for lower wages.

We have families today where mom is working 40 hours, dad is working 40 hours, the kids are working and they are still not earning enough money to provide for their family.

And that is why together, we are going to create an economy that works for all of us, not just the 1 percent.


Together, we are going to end the absurdity of having a national minimum wage of $7.25 an hour.


Together, we are going to create a minimum wage which is a living wage, 15 bucks an hour.


It is not a radical idea to say that in America, in Kentucky, in Vermont, if you work 40 hours a week, you should not be living in poverty.


And when we talk about equitable wages, we are going to end the embarrassment of women making 79 cents on the dollar to pay for men.


I know that every man here is going to stand with the women in the fight for pay equity.


In America today, our infrastructure, that is our water systems, I was in Flint, Michigan, a couple months ago, and what I saw in Flint was something that I will never forget and that is children being poisoned by excessive lead in their water.


This should not be happening in this country in the year 2016. But it is not just Flint that has problems with its water. Hundreds of communities have similar problems.

[19:35:00] But it's not just water. It's our roads and our bridges and our airports and our rail system and our levees and our dams. This is America. Our infrastructure should not be crumbling.


And that is why together, we are going to invest in rebuilding our infrastructure and when we do that, we're going to create 13 million descent paying jobs.


And when we talk about the needs of the American people, all of us understand that we live in a competitive global economy and that means that we need the best educated work force in the world.


There is something a little bit crazy when young people go to college, get the best education they can and then they end up $30,000, $50,000, $70,000 in debt.


Anybody here with student debt?


Well, in my view, we should be encouraging people to get an education, not punishing people for getting an education.


And that is why we're going to do two things. Number one, number one in the world today, it is no longer good enough to talk about public education being first grade through 12th grade. Truth is that a changing economy and changing technology requires people to get more education.


Fifty years ago, if you had a high school degree, you were doing pretty well. You could go out, get a job, make it into the middle class. That is not the case today.

Today in my view when we talk about public education, we must be talking about making public colleges and universities tuition free.

(CHEERS) WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Senator Bernie Sanders making his campaign major points. The points that brought him this far an impressive point, I should say.

And take a look at this, in Indiana right now with 22 percent of the vote in, Bernie Sanders is taking a very, very slight lead over Hillary Clinton up by 206 votes. Look how close it is in Indiana right now. He's got 50.1 percent of the vote. Hillary Clinton 49.9 percent.

Two hundred and six votes. Bernie Sanders now for the first time taking the lead in the actual vote tally in Indiana right now. You see on the Republican side Donald Trump the big winner.

Let's go over to John King and take a closer look at what's going on right now.

John, Bernie Sanders is making it very interesting in Indiana right now. He's got a very, very slight lead over Hillary Clinton.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, let's bring it up, you just mentioned 50.1, 49.9, 22 percent of the vote in.

Just a little flash back here. This is not unusual for Indiana Democrats. Remember how close it was in 2008, 51-49? Well, look where we are in 2016 right in the same ballpark as we count these votes.

So, what are you looking for? Number one, if you're the Clinton campaign and it stays this close, you're hopeful that Gary, Indiana, can get you to the finish line. Notoriously late, Lake County, Indiana, late count, a lot of African-Americans up in this community. So, Hillary Clinton is hoping that gives her numbers to help her out.

But if you look at the map starting to fill in, you have Senator Sanders winning rule places as this plays out. I just want to check, get down in Indianapolis here and check with Marion County to see what the margin is, very close.

For Senator Sanders, this is what you want to do. This is your urban area. You do have some African-American community here, you expect Hillary Clinton to win because of the African-American base. But if you're Bernie Sanders, if you can keep it that close, we're only at 18 percent, so we don't know this is definitive.

But if you're Bernie Sanders, you can keep this county, either win it or keep it very, very close. That helps you elsewhere in the state because this is where Secretary Clinton needs to run it up big. That's how Senator Obama kept it close if you go back in time and look in here before, 67 percent for then-Senator Obama in this area back in 2008.

So, those early numbers encouraging for Senator Sanders as we count the votes tonight. We'll have to wait for the votes up here, Wolf, as it fills in now a tug-of-war but seems to be splitting at moment, let's see what kind of the votes in, 29 percent here. [19:40:00] Look how close it is, 50-49 in this country. Move over to

the next county. This one is all counted, Senator Sanders won with a bit more of a margin there. Let's move up here, Secretary Clinton.

So, it's skipping around depending where we are in the state. There's not a pattern as you go through the counties. She seems to be doing better close to the Ohio border and he seems to be doing better more to the west. Senator Sanders, there's an irony for you, in Clinton County, Indiana, Senator Sanders up 56 percent.

BLITZER: We're getting ready to hear from Donald Trump the big winner in Indiana tonight.

Also, Ted Cruz, very anxious to hear what he has to say. We'll take a quick break. Much more special coverage right after this.


BLITZER: Welcome back.

We're waiting to hear back from Donald Trump. He's over at Trump Tower in New York. A huge win for him tonight in the state of Indiana.

We're also waiting to hear from Ted Cruz, a devastating loss for him in Indiana. He really wanted to do his best to do something in Indiana that is not happening for him right now. He's going to be speaking shortly in Indianapolis, Indiana.

We're going to have coverage, obviously, of Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. We'll have to wait and see what they precisely say. A big night for Donald Trump. Very big night.

Let's take a look at the actual votes that are coming in in our key race alert right now.

[19:45:02] Let's start on the Democratic side. Bernie Sanders taking a slight lead over Hillary Clinton with 27 percent of the vote in. He's up by more than 1,800 votes. Bernie Sanders now has 50.5 percent to Hillary Clinton's 49.5 percent. Bernie Sanders taking a lead slight lead over Hillary Clinton. Look how close it is on the Democratic side.

On the Republican side, not close at all with 34 percent of the vote actually counted. Donald Trump maintains his lead, 53.4 percent, 35.5 percent for Ted Cruz, Kasich at 8.4 percent.

Let's go over to John King at the magic wall.

Fifty-seven delegates at stake in Indiana. He got already 30 by winning the state, Donald Trump. He got three more winning one congressional district.

Is it possible Donald Trump will win all 57 delegates tonight and Ted Cruz will win zero?

KING: Yes, in a word yes.

We're not there yet. We have to count the votes. Look how the map is filling in. First, you're looking as you mentioned, statewide, you got 30 delegates. That's done. Those are Donald Trump's.

Then you look at these eight congressional districts. Forgive me. I'll pop u this away. It takes a minute to stretch it out.

If you put this over lay over the state, you're looking at the green lines for the congressional districts. At the moment, Wolf, Ted Cruz is leading in only two counties in the entire state. And if you look at the districts, in every congressional district, let me bring that down a bit and make it neater.

In every congressional district, Donald Trump is leading so far. Now, we only have 34 percent of the vote counted. This could change. But if the map continues to fill in like this, Donald Trump is poised to win 57 delegates, maybe it will be 54, but at the moment, he's looking to win all 57. He's poised and has position to do that in the state that Ted Cruz himself said was the fire wall.

If the state Ted Cruz himself said conservatives were standing on the edge of the cliff, and if Donald Trump wins, you're pushed over the cliff. If this continues to fill in like it is, Donald Trump getting 50 or more, maybe all 57 of the delegates out of Indiana tonight you'd have to say it is a humiliating loss for Senator Cruz and a message from Donald Trump, because if you pull this back out and look, number one, look at this part of the country with the exception of John Kasich's Ohio, Donald Trump running it up including across the evangelical South, that was supposed to be the Texas senator's wheelhouse.

Now, Senator Cruz has done well in the West but smaller delegate holes out here. The bottom line, though, is with Indiana. If Trump gets 57, we haven't allocated all of them, he could end the night past 1,050 and maybe close to 1,060. The magic number is 1,237. He could end the night roughly 2-1 over Ted Cruz, a big -- if he wins at the scope we think he's going to win right now, he would need 40 percent of the remaining delegates after tonight.

BLITZER: So, let's say he gets all 57 delegates, Donald Trump, Cruz winds up with no delegates in the state of Indiana. Does Cruz have a realistic chance to prevent Donald Trump from getting to that magic number 1,237 on the first round at the Republican convention?

KING: Does he have a chance, yes. Realistic is a tough word to define based on recent performance. The way to beat Donald Trump, you have to beat him on election day, five for five last night.

Now, Trump is winning in Indiana and huge on a conservative state that is built for a guy like Ted Cruz to at least win some delegates. How could he stop him? He would have to stop him here. I'd have to switch maps. This will make this a little easier.

Look, realistic would mean Ted Cruz would have to win California. The polls right now on average show Donald Trump up somewhere of the ballpark of 15, 16 points in California. If Donald Trump keeps winning, what is it?

You covered politics a long time. Donald Trump keeps winning, why is California going to switch from Donald Trump being double digits ahead to suddenly Ted Cruz? If the Republican establishment, if the anti- Trump forces make huge investment saying you are it, California, conceivably, if Cruz would win, California and win it big, sure, that could keep Trump short of 1,237, but -- but even if that happens, you can see Trump getting to 1,215, 1,220.

BLITZER: Stand by. We're going to be listening to Donald Trump and Ted Cruz. They are getting ready to address their supporters.

We're going to have live coverage coming up right after this.


[19:52:51] BLITZER: Once again, we're waiting to hear from Donald Trump. He's getting ready to address his supporters over at Trump Tower in New York. We'll have A big win for him tonight in Indiana.

We're also waiting to hear from Ted Cruz. A very devastating loss for him tonight in Indiana.

What are we going to hear from Ted Cruz? Once he comes out and speak -- he's getting ready to speak in Indianapolis, Indiana -- we'll have live coverage of that as well.

Let's get a key race alert right now. Take a look at where things stand.

On the Democratic side, look at this, Bernie Sanders building up a slight lead over Hillary Clinton. Right now, he's at 50.9 percent, 49.1 percent for Hillary Clinton. Twenty-nine percent of the vote is in, he's up by 4,000 votes. Bernie Sanders building up a slight lead over Hillary Clinton right now.

On the Republican side, 37 percent of the vote is in. He's over 50 percent. He's been over 50 percent all night as the votes have been counted. He's got 53.5 percent and 35.6 percent for Ted Cruz and John Kasich down 8.2 percent. He's up by almost 73,000 votes.

Let's go back to Jake and Dana.

We're waiting to hear from Cruz first and then Trump.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: That's right, Wolf. Thanks so much.

And really, let's just talk about this. We'll talk about how powerful a victory this was for Donald Trump in a little bit, but how devastating a loss this is for Ted Cruz. Indiana is a state that the demographics were in his favor.

And just in terms of ad money spent the Cruz campaign spent, according to CMAG which tracks this, the Cruz campaign $2.8 million. The anti- Trump forces spent $2.6 million. Donald Trump, $900,000. It's a devastating loss. Where does Ted Cruz go from here, Dana?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That is the discussion going on around water coolers, over beers, probably a lot more alcohol tonight among many Republicans especially here in Washington trying to figure that out and clearly going on inside Ted Cruz's suite right now -- probably with him and his family.

Going into tonight as the polls were getting ready to close, Cruz sources who I spoke with insisted that even the worst case scenario for him tonight, which is losing all 57 delegates which it looks according to John's map might possibly happen --

TAPPER: Not only the state, but winning every congressional district. Yes.

[19:55:01] BASH: Trump winning and Cruz losing, that they still believe he has a path to -- and the path, this is important -- path to stopping Donald Trump.

TAPPER: Preventing him from getting 1,237.

BASH: From getting 1,237, exactly. They still -- so that was still a path.

However, it's one thing to prepare for that kind of in theory. It's another thing to see it in black and white. It's another thing for at 7:00 on the dot Eastern, all of us to call the race pretty big for Donald Trump.

TAPPER: This is like -- he's like 0-for-7 in the last races.

BASH: Exactly. And you put so much money and resources, but also blood, sweat and tears into Indiana. He put all in. He even said himself, I left everything on the field. I mean, he was talking in fatalistic, finalistic, if you will, terms today.

But Donald Trump earlier was talking about messages being sent. There was a message that was sent just as polls were closing, and I'm pulling it up on my phone now from one of the main Never Trump super PACs. They're not technically, legally allowed to talk to the campaigns, especially the Cruz campaign.

TAPPER: Right.

BASH: But as soon as they came out, they put out a statement saying we're not done. We want to keep fighting, which is -- Ted Cruz, we're here. We're going to do this.

TAPPER: But I've heard that they've had trouble raising money, all the voices in the party, all the contributors who one would think might give money to the Stop Trump movement or forces, whatever you want to call them, a lot of that money JUST hasn't come, whether it's from Paul Singer or Sheldon Adelson or the Koch brothers, they just haven't ponied up.

BASH: They -- look, they --

TAPPER: Not to name names.

BASH: Those are some pretty big names.

It's not just that they can't get the money, but it's not -- but I think that to your point, it's not just about the money. It's about the desire. I just want to go back to Cruz for one other point which is covered him since he's been in the Senate and if there is any Donald Trump opponent who really, truly has the stomach to take the hits that he would have to take through the next month to get to the last primary day of June 7th -- knowing that is a very, very uphill climb just to stop Donald Trump from getting the delegates -- it is Ted Cruz.

He has been the subject of ridicule since he walked in the door of Washington and he can do it. The question is whether he has the stomach to do this now.

TAPPER: But also, as you know, when a candidate enters a race, they have to sit down and have a conversation with their wife or husband and their children and their family, they have to talk about how difficult it's going to be, time away from home, seeing daddy or mommy attacked, Ted Cruz's family has been through a lot.

There was that cartoon in "The Washington Post" depicting the daughters as monkeys. There were the attacks on Heidi Cruz by Donald Trump and others. Today, the attack on Ted Cruz's hero, his father, Rafael, by Donald Trump. He's not only --

BASH: By the way, which we should say, as you've said many times today, which was incredible -- which was false, just false.

TAPPER: And nonsensical, ridiculous.

BASH: Right.

TAPPER: So, he's not only putting -- it's not only about him. He has to figure out does he want to put his family through this too?

BASH: But that cuts both ways. When we saw Ted Cruz come out today in his press conference and go bananas on Donald Trump in a way he has never done before, that was him being human. He was really angry. So, that could say enough of this, I don't want to deal with this anymore, or also could make him more dug in to say you're going to come after my family and I have to go godfather on this, but you know, you're going to come after my family, including my father, I am just going to stay in this and make it even more difficult for you.

TAPPER: We'll see, we'll see. Only Ted Cruz knows what he's going to do right now.

Let's me go to CNN politics executive editor, Mark Preston right now who will bring us an update on the delegate count.

Mark, CNN already awarding 33 of the delegates so far of Indiana's 50 something to Donald Trump. What else have you got for us?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, the news keeps on getting better for Donald Trump, Jake. He is now up to 42 delegates at this point, 42 of the 57 that are up for grabs tonight, the night looks very good for Donald Trump.

But let's break it down as he tries to get to this path between bound and unbound numbers. Donald Trump has 1,044 delegates, 991 of them are bound to him in the first ballot, excuse -- 999 are bound to him on the first ballot, 45 are unbound. These are delegates that came out of the state of Pennsylvania but are still pledging their support right now to Donald Trump.

He's getting closer and closer it that magical number of 1,237. Meanwhile, Ted Cruz remains at 572 delegates and, of course, John Kasich lagging way far behind with 156 delegates -- Jake.

TAPPER: Mark Preston, thanks so much.

We should just point out, not to be mean, that John Kasich is still fourth in a three-man race with his delegate counts. He still trails Marco Rubio who dropped out of the race several weeks ago.

But there you have it.