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Ted Cruz Ends Presidential Campaign After Indiana Loss; Interview with Donald Trump Jr; Trump and Sanders Win Indiana Primaries; Clinton Camp Has Prepped for Head-to-Head Matchup. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired May 3, 2016 - 22:00   ET


[22:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Breaking news, after a crushing defeat at the Indiana republican presidential primary, Ted Cruz has announced he's ending his campaign for the presidency.

I'm Wolf Blitzer at the CNN election center.

Ted Cruz got the one on one match-up he was looking for in Indiana, but Donald Trump got the knockout that he was looking for. This Indiana win puts him on a clear path to the nomination, and made it clear to Cruz that his own path as he put it has been foreclosed.

Let's take a look at the vote. Actually right now, Donald Trump the winner of the Indiana republican presidential primary with 85 percent of the vote in, Donald Trump has 53.2 percent, Ted Cruz, 36.7 percent, John Kasich, only 7.5 percent. Kasich did not even campaign in Indiana.

Donald Trump, the big, big winner in Indiana right now. The Republican National Committee by the way has just declared that Trump is the presumptive republican presidential nominee, appealing for party unity.

Let's take a look at the delegate count to date. Remember, needed to win 1,237, right now, Donald Trump has 1,053, Ted Cruz, who just announced he's dropping out, 572, John Kasich, who still in this race, 156.

Donald Trump, clearly well on his way to getting the republican presidential nomination. On the democratic side. Bernie Sanders picked up a narrow win in Indiana. But not enough delegates to effectively slow Hillary Clinton's march to the nomination.

Let's take a look at the race right now, 76 percent of the vote in Indiana has been touted. Bernie Sanders has an impressive lead, 53.1 percent. Hillary Clinton, 46.9 percent. He's up by almost 35,000 votes in Indiana. Bernie Sanders, the winner of the Indiana democratic presidential primary, an important win, important win for Bernie Sanders.

Hillary Clinton has already been pivoting to the general election. And the key question will be how long Bernie Sanders will stay in the race whether his eventual exit will be done in a way to help or hurt the democrats in November.

Let's go over to John King over at the magic law right now. Let's take a look at all of the numbers. The electoral map we're looking at right now, 270 electoral votes you need to be elected president of the United States. And a lot of people are already looking at the possibility this could be Hillary Clinton versus Donald Trump.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Now Sanders supporter will say, hey, not yet, especially after the win in Indiana. And I put her delegate map is pretty convincing. Donald Trump, you just heard Wolf just moments ago saying he will win in November and he took after Hillary Clinton.

This map we're showing you right here is the 2012 map. This is Barack Obama, the blue states, versus Mitt Romney, the red start. Another way to look at it is we could do this. This is our first CNN battleground map for the 2016 election. If they're dark red, we believe they're likely to stay red, if they're dark blue, we think they're likely to stay blue.

And you see the lighter shades, where likely democratic state or likely republican states. Let me start, Wolf, on this map. Because it's easier to make the case our panelists have been discussing.

So, what does Donald Trump say? Donald Trump says I could beat Hillary Clinton in places that are traditionally democratic. Well, if he has that success and what Jeffrey Lord was just calling the rust belt. If Donald Trump can do that Democrats watching here are going to say, hey, wait a minute, it won't happen.

But if Donald Trump can win in Pennsylvania, if Donald Trump can win in Ohio, Michigan, and then come over here, win Wisconsin, he's the President of the United States. You can do it. Now, you can do it, I make it sound easy, those are four states that have been traditionally democratic for a long time.

But it can be done just in this part of the country which is why Donald Trump reaches out to Bernie Sanders supporters, and why Donald Trump talks about the trade message. In his mind, in his campaign team's mind, you can do this in one part of the country where he has proven that he has appeal to blue collar workers.

Now the Clinton campaign will never concede this is going to happen. They are going to say that this State Pennsylvania has not gone republican since George H.B. Bush. They are going to say we're going to compete in all these other states. They are going to say you never going to take that away.

But let's assume, let's just say I pick these two, let's say Donald Trump gets two of them, where else does he go? That is the fascinating question for the Trump campaign. Obviously, Florida is one of the biggest prizes.

Hillary Clinton believes with the Latino vote. With the suburban vote in a changing state that she can keep -- what if Donald Trump won Florida? This is now the chess campaign. How do you change the map? Can Donald Trump put these states in play? If so, where does Hillary Clinton go looking?

Let's say Donald Trump -- I don't think that one we should do that just yet. But let's leave this one blue. Let's say Donald Trump wins these three. Hillary Clinton still wining here. Where does Trump go for the other one? Well, he's going to have to try in smaller states, like in Iowa, in smaller states like in New Hampshire, starts to even out the map.

So, as we begin the calculations and the thinking about the general election, there is no question for Donald Trump the first test is change the map and the industrial states that have been reliably blue for quite a long time.

If you're Hillary Clinton, what are you looking at? You think it's possible, possible with a high Latino turnout that you might be able to turn Arizona.

[22:05:04] You think it's possible if you can get a high African- American turnout and if conservatives say never Trump and stay home, you could turn a state like Georgia with a combination of high democratic turnout, suppressed conservative turnout.

These are the calculations now going on in the campaigns. But as I reset this, I just want to reset it and come back to this. They should look at the Obama, Romney map. The biggest test for the Trump campaign is actually to prove, to prove and have the polling prove that you can compete across here.

Because if you can make the democrats spend time, money, resources here, then it can change the map in other ways. But as we begin to think about this and what Donald Trump said tonight. I think any early calculation of the electoral map looking has to be put to the test.

Can Donald Trump do across from battleground Pennsylvania across over here into Minnesota, Wisconsin, and the like, include Iowa and Illinois, I think is most unlikely, but go across the belt right here, if he can change the map here. He has the potential to make it a very different race.

BLITZER: Now we're talking hypothetically about a contest between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. But Bernie Sanders he did win in Indiana tonight. An important win for him tonight. And his supporters are going to say, why aren't we paying attention to his win? The answer is, it's proportional.

KING: It's proportional. And look, if Bernie Sanders were somehow to become the democratic nominee. You'd have the same -- you'd be having the very same conversation about the electoral map in those states.

But here's the issue for Bernie Sanders. Let me take the super delegates off the table for a minute. We give Bernie Sanders Indiana, Hillary Clinton began the night with a more than 300 lead in just pledged delegates. Bernie Sanders will shave into that tonight. The rule is kind of very modest because of the proportional democratic rules, even if he wins by seven points, even if he wins by seven points. You split delegates, 53, 46. Now something roughly along those lines. So, he'll gain maybe count the delegate, 10 or 15 or 20 in the delegate count tonight. But she starts way over 315. And if you play this right the rest of it. Number one, if he won everything left, 55, 45, a bigger margin than he's winning tonight, he still wouldn't catch up. h still wouldn't catch up.

Number two, that's unlikely. So, let me just play this out this way. Give half the states to Sanders, we're giving California to Clinton here. I know Sanders supporters say they're going to take California. We'll see what happens.

But if you split the remaining states. She gets the big one California, 55, 45, he still gets a lot of delegates. She gets the big one, New Jersey, 55, 45, he still gets a lot of delegates.

In that scenario, we're somewhere out here. And the Sanders campaign team has talked about, well, if he starts winning, we will change the democratic super delegates, maybe. But there is zero evidence of that right now. Zero evidence.

The democratic super delegates who get votes at the convention overwhelmingly bring them into the equation. She goes off the chart. She goes passed our final market. She has 513 right now to 41 percent of Sanders. There is no reason to believe, Wolf, if she keeps losing, we'll revisit with these people. But one state is not going to do it.

BLITZER: Let's go back to the electoral map, the Electoral College map looking ahead to November of this year. How much of an uphill struggle would Donald Trump have, let's say compared to Mitt Romney four years ago?

KING: Well, it depends how you look at it. On the one hand, Donald Trump would say, and I think even democrats, we should bring Mr. Axelrod into the conversation, that if these states, Trump has proven in the primary season an unorthodox candidate.

We do know that a lot of these blue collar working class voters are unhappy, they're voting for Bernie Sanders. So, they're unhappy at least in the primaries with Hillary Clinton. Does that mean they'll be Trump republicans? It means nothing. But do we know from the history of Ronald Reagan, for example, that you can create Reagan democrats in a place like this. It is possible.

So, even democrats can see trump has opportunity in these states. Doesn't mean he win them. But he has opportunity in these states that they don't think Mitt Romney or John McCain ever had because of his appeal to blue collar workers.

On the other hand, as I said, if you look at the demographics, often times in politics, forget the candidates, you look at the demographics of the electorate. If you look at the -- this is the Obama coalition. I've just switched Michigan over.

This is the Obama coalition which is remarkably consistent in two elections. Obama won Indiana and North Carolina in 2008, gave them back in 2012. They were the two most conservative states he won in 2008 and he lost them in 2012 to Mitt Romney.

So, if you're Hillary Clinton, this is where you start. And you say what am I at risk of losing? Well, she would have to defend, as I said, she would have to defend Pennsylvania and Ohio. She would have to defend Michigan. She would probably have to defend in Wisconsin.

You know, some of the smaller states, Iowa, New Hampshire, Trump lost Iowa, but he has some blue collar field, he won New Hampshire. I could tell you the republican Senator Kelly Ayotte does not think Donald Trump can win New Hampshire in November. But we'll see.

Donald Trump, remember, Wolf, when we started this, Donald Trump wasn't going to be the nominee, right? Donald Trump didn't have a chance. Donald Trump was running against the deepest, broadest, most experienced republican class of candidates in our lifetime.

Well, Donald Trump is the presumptive republican nominee tonight. So, if you look at this map, you say with the things he has said about Latinos, with the standing among women, with the standing among African-Americans, that today, there's every reason to believe Hillary Clinton has a good opportunity to repeat this map. Based on polling. Based on demographics, based on the campaign.

[22:10:00] But, how many times has Donald Trump forced us to go back and rethink what paper tells us? What the data tells us. Because he has changed our politics. So, again, I would say for Hillary Clinton, that if you want to win the presidency, you are going to focus on this area right here, it will probably take New York out of the equation. Although Trump even says he's going to compete in New york.

Again, New York hasn't gone republican for president for quite a long time, but this area of the country, which is traditionally reliably blue. Where hardly any money is spent in the general election because, except for Ohio, Ohio is always a democrat state.

But not much money in the general election is spent in Pennsylvania after Labor Day. Some republicans test the waters in Michigan. They usually end up pulling out by at least by the end of September.

We're going to see money, time, and resources spent in places that traditionally, in the past 10 or 15 years, 20 years even, have not been general election battleground. And again, we're going to see if Clinton can try to stretch the map there, try to stretch the map there. But this will be until proven otherwise by data. A traditional election with a lot of focus across the industrial Midwest.

BLITZER: It's only May and there's a lot of time between May and November. We'll see what happens.

Let's go over to Jake and Dana. This is a conversation that we're going increasingly going to have, looking ahead to that Electoral College map, how Donald Trump who is the presumptive nominee, not only because we said he is the presumptive republican nominee.

But Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican Party tweeted just a little while ago, and he considers Donald Trump the presumptive republican nominee as well.

JAKE TAPPER, THE LEAD SHOW HOST: And whether or not he is running against Clinton or Sanders, this is going to be a brutal, brutal race. There are a lot of democrats, Van Jones among them, who are very, very concerned and very, very worried that Donald Trump's ability to get voters excited and motivated and appeal to white working class voters and bring in people who haven't voted in a long time that that can't potentially change the map.

And there are people Donald Trump has talked about being able to win over Michigan, being able to win over Pennsylvania. Who knows if he will be able to, but it's going to put those states in some serious play.

DANA BASH, CNN'S CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Look, I spent during this primary season, time on the ground in Michigan. In Pennsylvania, but in Michigan in particular, and Wisconsin, like John was just showing.

I mean, I remember 12 years ago covering the George W. Bush reelection campaign and Karl Rove was convinced, convinced that republicans were going to be able to make those states red again because of the excerpts, the growing number of people who could potentially be republican voters.

There's no question that those states when Donald Trump says that they're in play again, are, and I don't think it's because of those voters, it is going back even further to, as John was talking about, the Reagan democrat. I saw them, we talked to them. So many voters at Trump events saying that some of them saying that they were governed voters.

But they're just so disgusted with everything, they're so upset about job loss and all the things that you talked about earlier that the Trump mentioned tonight. Trade and so forth, that they're right for the picking for Donald Trump. And at the very least, he's going to make the democrats spend money there. But I think it could go a lot further. I think it could be real.

TAPPER: I think, Anderson, one of the things that's going to be -- first of all, we have so many -- it's so unprecedented. We've never had a candidate like Donald Trump. We've never had a woman nominee from any party either. So many unknowns.

And also you're going to have Donald Trump potentially running to the left if Clinton is the nominee, running to her left on foreign policy, on trade policy, on Washington, D.C., on status quo, it's really going to be something.

ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 SHOW HOST: Well, it's such a clash of experiences and also of styles and also, I mean, David Axelrod, to have two candidates who knew each other and attended, or at least she attended his wedding, he gave her money. I mean, there's a back...


whether she was going to ask for her gift pack at this point? That might be the right thing to do.

No, look, I think that it is, it's going to be fascinating because Hillary Clinton, what she brings to the table is experience, confidence in public, of course we know. We can debate this, but the public perception of her is that she is ready to be president.

People understand that, they know that. It was interesting the Clinton campaign put out a statement tonight saying, describing Trump as a risky choice. And I think that's the contrast that they're going to strike.

And the question is can they in suburban areas, for example, can they appeal republican and independent voters away on that score? It is true that he is going to go hard after those who are called Reagan democrats, independent voters, blue collar workers.

Some of the groups that he's done well with.


COOPER: And you think he'd get.

AXELROD: And that can cut into per support in those areas. And I think you're going to see the Clinton campaign fight back hard on that. They're going to go after some of the other things that Trump has touted like his tax plan which is very skewed to the very wealthy. It will look very familiar to those voters and it's not something that they particularly...


[22:15:05] COOPER: And it was -- Donald Trump in his speech tonight talk about miners in West Virginia and bringing up comments that Hillary Clinton...


AXELROD: Well, those are clear shot at her.

COOPER: Right.

AXELROD: Yes, I was actually disappointed. I saw her interaction with that coal miner yesterday in West Virginia, in which she sort of apologized for what she said. What she said was actually right, those jobs are going away. The question is do we have a plan to, to bring new jobs and new opportunities to those workers?

It was an honest thing that she had said. So, you know, again Donald Trump is going to have to make the case as to why he actually is going to reverse the tide of the history here. And it can't just be sheer force of will.


Jeffrey's home State of Pennsylvania is going to factor very significantly into this, but things have changed demographically in the country.

And one illustration is that in 1988 when papa Bush was able to win Pennsylvania and get elected, he got 59 percent of the white vote, it earned him 206 electoral votes.

That's a snap shot, Anderson, of the way the country has change. Donald Trump needs to grow the tent, or he can't win.

You know, Kevin that Mitt Romney got the same 59 percent of the white vote. Only earned him 206 electoral votes. That's of a snapshot. Donald Trump needs to grow the tent, or he can't win.

COOPER: We got to take a quick break. We're going to have more of our coverage in just a moment. We'll be right back.


COOPER: Welcome back. Our Jim Acosta caught up a few moments ago with Donald trump Jr. to talk about the moment they saw the news about Ted Cruz dropping out. Let's listen.


DONALD TRUMP JR. DONALD TRUMP'S SON: I was there. I was there with him. And it was Vanessa, Ivanka, and Jared, Eric, Laura, the whole family was just there. Sitting on his bed watching TV, you know.

I saw some hints maybe on social media. And then when it happened, I think it was just sort of a collective wow. I don't think there were a lot of words spoken. I think we're just incredibly shocked. I mean, it's been a long and brutal process, one that's been very tough and one that, you know, we weren't familiar with.

I mean, so, it's incredible to see him step into this game as an outsider and do so well and give the people a voice. It's just been awesome.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Did you think he and Ted Cruz would speak at some point? I assume they did not speak to see.

TRUMP JR.: I'm sure they will.

ACOSTA: And do you think that it's possible for your father to unite this party? It's pretty fractured right now.

TRUMP JR.: You know, I think the answer is 100 percent. I mean, I think people get it. You know, obviously there's been a lot of protecting the system with a lot of the old school establishment. You know, I understand that.

But I think people understand my father's message about letting the people have a voice, you know, giving them that voice again and letting it be heard, and then spoken loud and clear. And I think, you know, our politicians on both sides have to start actually listening to the people for a change.

ACOSTA: Did you ever think your dad (Inaudible) would actually come to this?

TRUMP JR.: Listen, I've learned never to second guess him. I mean, I think we obviously know it was sort of, it would have to almost be an anomaly. But he's a special guy and he's an incredible person. He understands these things. He gets it.

And I think I want someone to lead this country who's signed the front of a paycheck whose employs tens of thousands of people whose livelihood depends on his success.

ACOSTA: He can handle this for months ago?

TRUMP JR.: Yes, they don't have a chance, right? So, we're all in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will you be thinking of a bigger role in the campaign going forward?

TRUMP JR.: We'll see. If he wants me to, I'm happy to do it. I think, you know, the least that I could do I'd love to do it for the country if it helps.


TRUMP JR.: Well, if there is one thing you'll always see with us, we're work horses, we're going to make this happen, we're going to push hard and we're never going to give up. Thank you, guys.


COOPER: Donald Trump Jr. speaking to our Jim a short time ago.

Amanda Carpenter joining us. Since Ted Cruz speak, were you surprised Cruz dropping out tonight?

AMANDA CARPENTER, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, no. I mean, they've run a data-driven campaign and I'm sure they look at the numbers. And they realize that this is the decision they had to make. I kind of thought just me I wanted a little bit longer to prove a point, especially the attacks against his family.

But, listen, they've been through an exhausting process. And I think the best thing is that Cruz ran a very clean campaign. He ran on issues. He didn't stoop down to this lying, dirty tactics that have been effective for Trump, but I don't think are honorable.

And going forward, even though Cruz wasn't successful in getting the republican nomination. He's still a person conservatives will trust, he's a person conservatives will look to for a leadership in the Senate. No matter who is president. And that's a big deal.

COOPER: Do you think he endorses Trump? Do you think he actually campaigns for Trump?

CARPENTER: I've got to say, I don't. If I were advising him, I would encourage him not to. I think that would be bad for his conservative brand to go out and endorse a person who I think will run to the left of Hillary Clinton on many issues.

So, I would say, don't do that. I understand earlier in the process he said he would support the nominee. But I think a lot has been revealed about Donald Trump's character...


COOPER: He also stepped back from that after the attacks on Heidi Cruz.

CARPENTER: Yes. So, I would encourage him not to do that and just be the guy that people look to for conservative guidance.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I thought it was interesting in Trump's speech when he sort of pivoted away from talking about how tough a competitor Ted Cruz was right to and look who came around and endorsed me.

Chris Christie, and Ben Carson, all great, I thought he was sort of signaling to Ted Cruz, there's going to be room over here. All talk is glowingly about you as I am now about some of the other competitors.

I thought that was a pretty clear, clear thing he was doing. Also just want to say, Don Jr. is so great as are all of Trump's kids. Ivanka and Eric and Tiffany. Don Jr. should be out on the campaign trail every single day talking about his dad. I know him. I know the way he talks about his dad. And he's just a real humanizing voice for that campaign.

AXELROD: Yes. That was a very -- that was a very disarming exchange. That was a better exploitation of the Trump message than you sometimes hear from the candidate.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, we saw that in our town hall.

CUPP: Yes, he's great.

BORGER: I mean, this, you know, the Trump offspring are terrific.

CUPP: Incredible.

[22:25:00] BORGER: And, you know, I think the more you have them out on the campaign trail the better it is. But speaking of endorsements, our Kevin Bond points out that tonight in a Facebook post, Mitt Romney thanked Ted Cruz for making the fight for conservatism, et cetera, et cetera, no mention, no mention in his post of Donald Trump, whom he has said he's not going to vote.


know, I mean, I have to say, I'm not surprised. That apparently is a Romney family tradition. When Barry Goldwater was nominated, Governor Romney fought him tooth and nail and when Goldwater won he refused to support him. He wouldn't show up in Michigan when Goldwater, you know, I mean, I just think that's the way they do things.


CARPENTER: We're not talking about the question about what do big elected official do about Trump. Every republican I know is on e-mail, Facebook messages saying what are you going to do?

BORGER: Right.

CARPENTER: That is such a big test for republicans as individual people from local activists to the highest levels of trying to figure out what kind of republican are you going to be?

Are you going to be somebody who says yes, I'm going to support him enthusiastically. I'm going to defend him. I'm going to go along with Trump reluctantly or I'm just going to say, I'm not on board with the Trump train. I'm going to see what happens and wait for somebody who will fight for conservatism.

BORGER: But if you look at party leaders, OK, Mitt Romney being one of them, we're not sure if he's going to the convention or not, but if you look at party leaders, we haven't heard from Bush 41, Bush 43, we don't think they're going to the convention. John McCain tonight just endorsed Donald Trump. Not going to the, not going to the convention though.

AXELROD: He's on the ballot, we should point out.

BORGER: He is on the ballot.


AXELROD: Yes, he's got a tough...

BORGER: So, if you look, you know, two former republican presidents, former republican nominee in Mitt Romney, not supporting the party nominee.


SMERCONISH: Yes, the speaker, right? The chairman of the convention.

BORGER: The party is unprecedented. Unprecedented.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, and I mean, which brings what the convention will look like. Will look like. I mean, who is going to be sort of the keynote speaker.

Who's going to put his name into nomination? You know, I think some of it will be revealed in the days going forward, maybe somebody like Chris Christie he has endorsements, Rick Scott obviously endorsed him.

BORGER: Right.

HENDERSON: Paul Lapage. But, you know, I think the next couple of weeks will tell if his big endorsements...

SMERCONISH: Can I quickly say that a nominee normally has his or her pick as to their running mate, who says no, no one says no. This might be a different dynamic.

AXELROD: Oh, yes.

COOPER: The Clinton campaign has weighed in on Donald Trump. We're going to have that when we come back. We'll take a short break.


[22:30:00] COOPER: Welcome back. We're continuing coverage with the Indiana primary. I want to check in with our Jeff Zeleny who has got new information about how the Clinton campaign is responding to Donald Trump. Jeff.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, the Clinton campaign of course has been preparing for this for a long time. They did not believe this sort of head to head match-up would be happening so soon. Of course even in defeat to Bernie Sanders, they're already looking ahead to Donald Trump.

But the campaign chairman, John Podesta released a statement just a moment ago and it reads like this. He said, "Fundamentally, our next president will need to do two things. Keep our nation safe in a dangerous world and help working families get ahead here at home. Donald Trump is not prepared to do either. Throughout this campaign, Donald Trump has demonstrated he's too divisive and lacks the temperament to lead our nation in the free world. With so much at stake, Donald Trump is simply too big of a risk."

So with that, Anderson, we are seeing the outlines of what is sure to be an aggressive campaign come together here, simply too big of a risk. You could see television commercials coming with that, even before they are finished with the nomination fight. They still have to deal with Bernie Sanders here.

But Anderson, make no mistake about it, as the Clinton campaign at headquarters right now, going all in on Donald Trump. And this is an outline to how they believe they will go after him. And they also believe and hope they can get some republicans to join in this campaign with them.

Of course, we've been talking about all evening how many republicans are not excited about Donald Trump. Look for them to start republicans for Hillary or something like that. Because that will be how this next six months of this campaign goes. It's going to be a fascinating one without a rule book to follow.

COOPER: Jeff, to that point, I don't know if you have answer for this, but is the Clinton campaign, do they have a strategy in place already for going after Donald Trump? Did they feel like they know what has worked or hasn't worked with the republicans and what they plan to do or is there any dissension or they all on the same page on this?

ZELENY: They're pretty much on the same page. A couple thing. One, they want to remind everyone what Donald Trump has been saying throughout the course of his republican primary. They know Donald Trump is going to shift back to the middle, maybe even to the left a little bit, they want to remind people every position he took during this republican primary.

And don't forget, this is playing to a much different, bigger audience. The republican primary electorate is just one sliver of the audience here. So, they believe that they have another opportunity to not necessarily reintroduce Donald Trump, but to define him as he is now. To freeze him in place as he is now in the words of one advisor tonight.

So, that's what they're going to try and do. But of course they also know that Donald Trump has been a spontaneous candidate. That's something that they struggle with doing here. So, they know it will be difficult. But one window into the excitement that they believe is out there is the woman card thing.

Last week, that raised $2.4 million for the Clinton campaign in three days alone. They believe that Donald Trump is sort of giving them that gift. So, but make no mistake about it, the electoral map is something that they're also looking at.

They know that Michigan will be tough, Pennsylvania will be tough, they're sending out state directors there.

[22:35:02] This general election campaign has started already tonight, even though they're not finished with Bernie Sanders.

COOPER: All right. Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, thanks very much from Louisville, Kentucky, tonight. Does it -- is it a mistake, David Axelrod, for Hillary Clinton not to be speaking tonight?

AXELROD: Yes. Well, I'm a little bit surprised by it. But I think she also anticipated that this wouldn't be necessarily a great night for her in Indiana.


COOPER: Right. But nevertheless, on a night where Donald Trump becomes the presumptive nominee, it is a night where she could get, you know, a nationwide coverage.

AXELROD: Yes, yes, but I think they'll take that up tomorrow, I'm sure. But, you know, here's an interesting challenge for them with Donald Trump. For many of the same reasons that some of the conservatives in the Republican Party are unenthused about Donald Trump, he's laid some, some things out there that he may be emphasizing more coming the general. You know, I was sitting in Chicago this week listening to radio advertisements from Ted Cruz's forced aimed to Indiana, just beating the heck out of Trump for not opposing or for opposing the North Carolina bathroom law.

And I'm thinking, boy, there are a lot of people in this metropolitan area who probably will say, gee, that surprises me, I didn't realize Trump was on that site of it and thought of it as a positive thing.

He, you know, he wrangled a lot of republicans by taking a position or speaking at least positively about Planned Parenthood.

And so, you know, he's laid markers down there, and we may see more of that. He is, you know, we heard in the last election about etch and sketching. He is a, you know, he is a task master at etch and sketcher, and we can see a different profile here.

And that would be something else. He won't see him change on trade, you won't see him change on some of these issues that have been big issues for him with this blue collar constituency, but you can see him taking some other positions to try and win some of these suburban voters, women and others who are right now not inclined to support him.

BORGER: You know, and there are two things that Hillary Clinton is running on. One, was she ran on in 2008 which didn't really work for her really well was the experience issue. And Barack Obama beat her handily, he was somebody without experience.

And so, this time she started out and she's talked more about being a woman. And I think if we look at her campaign manager's statement from earlier this evening, they're back to talking about experience and being a woman together.

Because what she can say is that he is erratic and he is a risk as John Podesta said, and he's unpredictable. And he can play into that by being unpredictable. And I think that's something they are talking about.

AXELROD: It is. I mean, and that is the way.


AXELROD: It seems to me that's a very sensible way to approach this and a really legitimate question to raise, the question is in an anti- establishment year, being the experienced candidate has some risks as well.


AXELROD: So, it's a very dicey path.

SMERCONISH: Absolutely. And then I think the observation that California takes on significance for her, not because she needs to win California in order to sew the nomination up, but because it occurs to me as I look at the schedule, she's limping across the finish line. She's ending this cycle and will get to that number, but by losing to

Bernie Sanders, on a night like tonight, OK, the net-net is a few more for him, but she's still on path. Is that really the way you want to win the nomination of the party?

COOPER: We have to take a quick break on that thought. We'll talk more about that. Just we'll talk a lot about Bernie Sanders about his win tonight and his road ahead against Hillary Clinton.


BLITZER: Welcome back. Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders the winners of the Indiana presidential primaries tonight.

Let's take a look at the republican side first. You can see Donald Trump a very impressive win over Ted Cruz who has now dropped out of the race. 53.3 percent for Donald Trump, 36.7 percent for Cruz. John Kasich who's still in the race, he gets 7.5 percent. He didn't even campaign in Indiana.

On the democratic side, Bernie Sanders the winner of the Indiana democratic presidential primary. Impressive win, 52.7 percent, 47.3 percent for Hillary Clinton. We're standing by to speak live with Bernie Sanders. That interview is coming up momentarily.

I want to go over to John King over at the magic wall. Donald Trump has amazingly well in Indiana, picking up what, almost all of the delegates there?

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Almost all. We can't call a few yet. Overwhelming. Add up Kasich and Cruz and they are still 10 points behind Donald Trump. This is a dumping and shellacking, pick your word for it.

It's an overwhelmingly victory for Donald Trump, which is why even the Republican National Committee, even though Governor Kasich says he is still campaigning says Trump is your presumptive nominee tonight.

If there's one source for, I don't know what's called, maybe potential pride for Ted Cruz, he's in play in this congressional district. These green lights you see in the screen these are the congressional districts. This is too close to call right now. This district up here on the top northeast corner of the state, too close to call. It's possible Cruz gets three delegates.

Now there's one other congressional district right here in the heart of Indianapolis, I just want to pull it up as you can see, Trump's pretty much ahead in the entire county. The congressional district has a line across here.

So, we haven't called that one yet, but it looks like that one will go for Trump. So, possible that Trump gets 54 and Ted Cruz gets three. Possible Trump wins them all. If anything comes for Ted Cruz it's right up here, you can see he only won five counties of the state of the entire state up here. [22:45:03] But an overwhelming victory for Donald Trump. And let's

look quickly at the democratic race, and then we'll get to the -- we'll have the delegate count. An overwhelming victory, not by as big margin of course, but in a two-way race.

A healthy victory, a very healthy victory for Bernie Sanders. What is significant is this is Lake County, an area Clinton knew she needed to win. Now she did with pretty big there. But let's compare that to then-Senator Obama. Pretty close, right, 57 to 56.7.

So, Hillary Clinton did what she needed to do there. But look down there, look down here in Marion County, this is essential -- it's essentially a tie, but this is just what Bernie Sanders wanted. A narrow victory right now with 86 percent in Marion County, which is where Indianapolis is.

If you go back to 2008. This is why then-Senator Obama kept the state close with a huge victory here in the major population center. So, Senator Sanders, very smart campaign to keep it -- keep it a narrow victory for him there. His goal was to keep it very close.

So, what does that -- how does this matter? Well, on the republican side, Wolf, we're going to keep doing this map. Although in some cases -- in some ways, you might argue, doesn't matter anymore, right? The Republican National Committee have said he's the presumptive nominee.

Where is John Kasich going to stop Donald Trump? Where we are right now, when you add in this Pennsylvania unbound delegates who have said, because Donald Trump won my state or my district, so big.

I'm for Trump on the first ballot, we already have -- we are have now Donald Trump's going to end tonight, 1059 or so. We still have to count those final Indiana delegates. He could fall back to 10, 56, he could end at 10, 59.

But, almost two to one over Ted Cruz who has now suspended and Jake said this earlier, it sounds like you're being cruel. But John Kasich in the delegate count is running fourth in a two-man race. And he's now, you know, still behind Marco Rubio who's been gone for seven weeks and now behind Donald Trump.

So, Governor Kasich is going to be in D.C. tomorrow. He says he's going to stay in, but this I think tells you the story of the republican race. So, then the calculation is with a win in Indiana tonight, let's take this away for a minute.

What happens to Bernie Sanders? Well, he picks up some, but he doesn't pick up enough is essentially it. It's a start, it's a morale booster, it gives his campaign momentum. Online, his supporters are all saying if he keeps winning the super delegates will switch.

There's zero evidence that, would they if Bernie Sanders could run the board? Of course, that would cause jitters if not panic in the Democratic Party. Do we expect Bernie Sanders to run the board? Do we expect Bernie Sanders to win New Jersey after Hillary Clinton won it all up in here? I think West Virginia and Kentucky will be an interesting contests,

but at the moment, at the moment, here's about where we're going to end tonight. We have a few more delegates to allocate. But, at the moment, 513 super delegates, they get votes at the convention.

Yes, they don't vote until the convention, but they have publicly declared their loyalty for Hillary Clinton, their votes count as much as the pledge delegates, 513 for Clinton, only 41 for Senator Sanders. As long as this map does not change she will get there. Without a doubt, she will get there.

The only way for this map to change is for Sanders to run the board when all of them were all but one or two of them on the rest of the way out and caused panic. Caused switching among the super delegates, there's absolutely, I'm not trying to be cruel to the Sanders campaign or to Senator Sanders, he's run a remarkable campaign, but there's no evidence before us tonight that these 513 are prepared to switch.

The only way to get them to switch will be for Senator Sanders to run the board. Again, as I said or win, you know, he lose one or two, but win -- win the big one in New Jersey, win the big one in California where you have most of the delegates.

Is that impossible? No. It's not impossible? Is it probable? No. You know how these works. Hillary Clinton won Indiana in 2008, Barack Obama went on to be the democratic nominee. The very rules that have kept Senator Sanders in the race, the proportionality that have kept him close even in states where he's lost, now work against him.


KING: In the sense that if she's getting 45 percent of the vote of these remaining states, she gets out here and the super delegates would put over the top.

BLITZER: So, what you're saying is his basic hope is to switch some of those 513 super delegates and pick up the 158 available super delegates who haven't decided yet.

KING: It's really his only hope in the sense that if he won the rest of them, 55, 45, she would still lead. Now, if he won the rest of them, trust me, some of these people would -- there's no question some of them would flip.

BLITZER: All right.

KING: It's hypothetical to say how many.

BLITZER: We're going to take a quick break. We're waiting to hear directly from Bernie Sanders. The interview with him is coming up. How will the results out of Indiana affect his fight against Hillary Clinton? We're going to speak with Bernie Sanders live, that's coming up.

[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: And welcome back to our continuing coverage from the Indiana primary. We are just waiting our Jake Tapper and Dana Bash speaking with Bernie Sanders coming up in just a few minutes.

Before that I want to play some of what Donald Trump said earlier then talk about it our panel.


DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have met some of the most incredible competitors that I have ever competed against right here on the Republican Party. You know, we started off with that 17 number. And just so you understand, Ted Cruz, I don't know if he likes me or doesn't like me, but he is one hell of a competitor. He is a tough, smart guy.


And he has got an amazing future.


COOPER: And Donald Trump speaking about Senator Ted Cruz. Glor, could you -- were you surprised by anything Trump said?

BORGER: I was more surprised by Cruz pulling out tonight. But look, I think Trump was trying to be gracious to Ted Cruz. And to say, look, he was an amazing competitor, and we ran a tough race and this is hard, and you know, I understand that.

[22:55:02] And I think that what Trump might have been sort of looking for and didn't get, was a tacit endorsement from Ted Cruz. And Amanda would know more about this than I do. But I don't -- I don't see it coming in the near future after what Trump did to his wife and talked about his, you know, his father today.

AXELROD: You mean, no Trump/Cruz ticket?

BORGER: Maybe no. And one other thing I want to add on this endorsement front, is that earlier, Anderson, I said that McCain had endorsed Trump, this shows you how people are trying to thread the needle.

I got an e-mail from a McCain person saying he didn't endorse. He announced he would support the republican nominee. And if Trump is the republican nominee, he'd be happy to advise him on foreign policy. So, this is how it is.

AXELROD: He would support the he, who I will not name.

BORGER: He who I will not name. Support, but not endorse.

AXELROD: You know, but it does underscore, John McCain is a classic example, he comes from a state with a significant number of Hispanic votes. He's got a tough reelection fight with Congresswoman Kirk Patrick there. And I'm sure this is really, he's really cross pressured here because obviously the immigration issue is very volatile there.

And he's sort of caught in the crosshairs though. So, it's going to be challenging for him.


HENDERSON: And you mentioned it's the state, Arizona that the democrats will really try to go on with all those Latinos. It will be very interesting to see if somebody like McCain can insulate himself from Donald Trump.

He's got a huge name I.D., has his own brand. I think it will be much more difficult for somebody like Kelly Ayotte in New Hampshire. She was on our air and somebody asked her, I think it was Jake Tapper asked her if she had heard Donald Trump's foreign policy speech. And she said, no, I hadn't heard it. I'm working hard on, you know, the issues people of New Hampshire are facing. But it i going to be so hard, even if you look back at 2014 how hard it was for people to separate...


KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There are very, very raw nerves right now with those inside the Republican Party. As you look back to 2008, 2012, when McCain campaign and the Romney camps -- campaign moved very quickly to try and consolidate the party behind the nominee.

And there was a lot of outreach involved, and there wasn't a lot of in terms of battling going on after a presumptive nominee had been -- had been arrived upon. I think that's very different right now.

I think there are a lot of folks inside the Trump organization that are perfectly willing to exploit a lot of the animosity inside the campaign. They've thrived off of it for the last few months.

LORD: But why do it now?

MADDEN: It's -- right. Well, I think that's one of the hard things right now. It's that we have about two and a half months before we get to Cleveland, that is a very short time with which they have to now start to bring the party together.

BORGER: Right.

MADDEN: Especially since these nerves are so raw.

BORGER: You know, and today Mark Salter, one of McCain's former top aids said that he would support Hillary Clinton.

MADDEN: Right.

HENDERSON: He's the former...


MADDEN: And we, I mean, when you look a lot of the polls, you see the question whether or not you would never vote for Donald Trump.

BORGER: Right.

MADDEN: It's showing up around 25, 26, right now. I think that's probably high. I think it's incumbent now upon that the Trump campaign to really make sure that they minimize that number and start to bring everybody together.

AXELROD: Kevin, let me ask you this, how do you unify a party around -- what principles are you going to unify around? I look at a John McCain whose foreign policy is completely different than Donald Trump who has -- who was taking a different position on immigration reform.

And who, on many other issues has taken different positions. How do you unify a party when there are really big hazards between the candidate and many in the party?

MADDEN: Yes, there's no doubt that it's going to be there. It's going to be a significant challenge. I think if you're going to look rhetorically for Donald Trump to now start appealing to conservatives, I think he's going to look move, start to move away from some of the areas where they disagree and he's going to try to move to areas that I think are popular, sort of boggy man for republicans to -- you know, primaries are always about differences, general elections is about where we agree.

I expect he'll start to, you know, bash the IRS. I expect national security and foreign policy contrast, not only with the Obama, the last eight years of Obama, but trying to tie Hillary Clinton to those issues.

CARPENTER: But I though it's very smart.

MADDEN: I think it would be very similar issues like that that he's going to try to bring -- that use to bring the party together.

CARPENTER: The one thing that Hillary Clinton did that very brief statement was try to exploit the thing that you really don't know where Donald Trump is coming down on the issues, right? So, you hit him on temperament and essentially uncertainty saying, you know, I am the trusted option.

If you don't know where this guy's going to go and republicans don't know where it's going to go that's what I think is going to be the most interesting part of this process. The core message that Donald Trump has is jobs. And yet, I don't know where he stands on unions, wage supports, exactly the function of how he would punish these companies.

[23:00:04] There are so many questions he hasn't answered about how he would actually bring back jobs to America. And I think Hillary could eat his lunch on that.