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Kasich Suspends Campaign, Leaves Field to Trump; Wolf Blitzer Interviews Donald Trump; Who Will Trump Pick as V.P.; Axelrod, Pfeiffer Talk Democratic Race. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired May 04, 2016 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00] VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: She thinks that when it comes down to it, at the end of the day, when all the hype is over and all the sound bites and all the big hands and little hands, that people are going to go into that booth and make a decision based on who you can trust to be a steady hand, not a loose cannon, but a steady hand, and who has real answers and not just a diagnosis of the problem. Listen, if she's right, she will win in a landslide because that's where Americans are. But if she's wrong, if Americans are angry and fed up, she's not even trying to channel in that direction, which is making a particular bet so far in.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Doug Heye, what did you think?

DOUG HEYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: One thing she said that struck me, he's already said these things, so as Donald Trump tries to pivot to a general election strategy and possibly appear more presidential which he's tried to do and had difficulty doing, even if successful there's a whole lot of material for the Democrats and the Hillary machine to use against Trump and demonstrate that he is a loose cannon and all the things that we've seen in the Republican primary replayed specifically to minority voters with everything that he said, for instance, or women voters, with everything that he's said about women. There's a lot of material there. She made it clear that they will use it.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: And, Brooke, if you're like going to do a word cloud about the words that she -- that she used, you'd have to also in addition to loose cannon and risk, you'd have to add in words that clearly geared towards women voters, words that really matter to women, words like demeaning, degrading and bullying. Those are kind of three words that women hear and listen to and think really long and hard about, and that was not, you know, just by happenstance either.

BLITZER: Here's where I'm curious, and, John, to you, Mr. Map man, talked about all the states in the Rustbelt looking ahead, but, you know, at this point now that we know essentially Kasich and Cruz are out and it's Trump as the presumptive nominee, how -- how challenging is it on Secretary Clinton's side to still know, and she pointed out, listen, she fought the good fight back in '08 and she's recognizing with her wording not to say I'll be the presumptive nominee on my side, but how much of a challenge is that that she can't 1100 percent pivot just yet? JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Both a challenge and an

opportunity. A challenge that she still has to compete for Democratic votes, a challenge that like last night she could be embarrassed. Funny, she understood that math. Remember how she won so many of us in the end in 2008.

BLITZER: Yes.

KING: Look, it's embarrassing to lose a state like Indiana. You can make an execution saying Independents can vote and can make an excuse saying it's a wider state, but she lost and she's the Democratic front-runner. Understands there will be nights like that ahead. At the same time, there will be attention on the Democratic race because it's continuing, media attention, and she will get to go to the states and raise money as she goes. And what she needs to do, the biggest challenge for her is to develop a relationship with Senator Sanders based on respect she can keep his voters. She understood, to Gloria's point, about the language aimed at women, van's point about making a bet, she's making a bet she can keep the Obama coalition together and she doesn't have to play Trump's game.

To make that bet happen in the first post-Obama presidency, she needs the young people and the young people with Obama who the next generation are now with Sanders. She needs to make sure African- Americans turn out in big numbers so that Ohio doesn't tip over, so that Pennsylvania doesn't tip over, and the other rustbelt states tips over. She understands what she needs to do.

And the most fascinating question in American politics is does Trump understand what he needs to do? Do we see him changing his tactics just a little bit or changing his focus just a little bit to tell you he's trying to map out a path to 270 just as Hillary Clinton tries to protect the Obama coalition and her path to 270.

BALDWIN: Interesting you mentioned Ohio.

Doug, let me pose this question to you, because the ramping up of the V.P. vetting and Anderson asked, you know, Hillary Clinton about that, really her answer was the thing I'm looking for most is someone, you know in, a second could become the president of the United States. We know from our own sources and Jim Acosta's reporting that apparently some of the names thrown out by team Trump, includes, speaking of Ohio, Rob Portman, Nikki Haley, and Suzanna Martinez. Your thoughts on those three?

HEYE: He needs help in specific states and with certain demographics. That's why I think you saw Hillary Clinton not only use the language she used in talking about words like demeaning, as Gloria pointed out, but also where when asked about from Anderson Cooper, did Republicans start too late? This whole interview made it clear that Democrats are not going to make the mistake that the Republicans made in letting Donald Trump establish himself as a primary candidate for months. Democrats, as evidenced by the Elizabeth Warren question as well, Democrats are going to go on the attack immediately, and we're seeing that already today.

BLITZER: OK. Listening to you, also hearing another voice in my ear. We'll play had a little more sound as we heard from Secretary Clinton.

We also have Donald Trump. He sat down with Wolf Blitzer just a little while ago at Trump Tower. Here they were.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[14:34:55] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: As we're speaking, I know you're very happy that Ted Cruz has dropped out. CNN has confirmed John Kasich, the Ohio governor, he's dropping out as well. You're the only one left right now.

TRUMP: That's good. That's good. You're just telling me for the first time about John and that's good. I think John is doing the right thing.

BLITZER: Ohio, you know, is an important state. No Republican has ever been elected president of the United States without winning Ohio.

TRUMP: Well, I think John will be very -- I've had a good relationship with John.

BLITZER: He's got a lot of government experience in the Congress and as a governor.

TRUMP: I think John will be very helpful with Ohio, even as governor.

BLITZER: He says he doesn't want to be a vice president.

TRUMP: Well, that could be. He's said that.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Would he be someone you're interested in vetting?

TRUMP: I would be interested in vetting John. I like John. I had a good relationship with John and gotten along with him well, but whether he's vice president or not, I think he'll be very, very helpful with Ohio.

BLITZER: Do you think the general election campaign has already started, you versus Hillary Clinton, that for all practical purposes, Bernie Sanders is out?

TRUMP: Well, I think what has happened, there's been a little flip, and I'm even surprised by it. I thought that I'd be going longer and she'd be going shorter. She can't put it away. Like a football team that can't put the ball over the line. I put it away. She can't put it away. So I thought I'd be out there and she would be campaigning against me. Yeah, I'll be campaigning against her while she's campaigning.

BLITZER: The general election campaign from your perspective starts today.

TRUMP: Essentially, it started, I mean yeah.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Starts today, but noting Ohio, as you know, John pointed out, Doug was just talking about.

Gloria, to you. I throw out a couple of names from our reporting as potential candidates, potentially that they are vetting.

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: What does Donald Trump need as his number two to sort of fill the gap because we're already hearing from Republicans who are already tweeting "#i'mwithher, and can't imagine voting for Donald Trump." How does he pull them back into the fold?

BORGER: Well, you know, he tries as hard as he can. You know, there are lots of people on the list that Donald Trump has, you know, has criticized. There's somebody like Chris Christie who would be a natural on the list bus he left and then joined the Trump campaign, but I think there are different buckets for Donald Trump. You know, somebody -- somebody suggested to me the other day that there's a military bucket, for example, that maybe he takes somebody with a bunch of experience.

Then there's the political bucket you know, there's somebody that has the inside Washington political experience. You talk about Newt Gingrich. That might be somebody like that, and then there's the governor, somebody who has sort of the national experience as a governor actually running a state and dealing with a state legislature, so there are all those options. The question is who would run with Donald Trump? And, you know, you ask about Kasich.

BLITZER: Yeah.

BORGER: Kasich has said to me and others I wouldn't -- I'd be a terrible vice president. I don't want to be vice president. He said to me I'd be worse than Joe Biden, which for a Republicans a pretty awful thing to say.

BLITZER: Apparently, he was just joking about that were. You don't think so?

BORGER: He said it personally to me. Would he do it, and I've talked to a bunch of his aides who say he would not, so this is going to be another issue that Donald Trump is going to be facing on that score.

BLITZER: What about, Doug Heye, the fact that looking at these two, we have to be careful with our language, hypothetically it is Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, highest unfavorability ratings of two candidates, both of them, since 1992?

(CROSSTALK)

HEYE: Yeah, which was it's own crazy election year. This may be the craziest election year we've ever seen and it also highlights no matter who each party nominates, their nominee will not be popular with the party. There will be a big push to unify. I think it will be easier for the Democrats than it will be for the Republicans.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Dana Bash -- I'm being told Dana is going to join this conversation.

Dana Bash I haven't heard from you about what Anderson's conversation with Secretary Clinton. What jumped out at you?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, Anderson was too much of a gentleman to start sparring with her, but what I was jumping out of my skin on was when she said Donald Trump hasn't been asked tough questions. Anderson asked him tough questions. I have asked him tough questions. Everyone has from the debate stage to interviews. I mean, the man has done so many interviews and we've tried to mine the -- the sort of policy positions that he has, and he doesn't give answers.

The problem wasn't the -- the interviewer. The problem was that when he didn't give answers, the voters who supported him, they didn't really seem to care. And I think the fact that -- that Hillary Clinton is still sort of stuck on that, which I'm not saying it's not important. We all ask the questions. It is important to know where a presidential candidate stands on very important issues. But she's -- she's missing the -- the point of the Trump candidacy which is --

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: How do you mean? How do you mean?

[14:40:10] BASH: Which is these voters don't care about experience. They had the most talented Republican field with the most experience and the most detailed policy plans in modern history, and they were -- they actively rejected that in order to -- BALDWIN: She said they were full founded.

BASH: In order to support somebody who -- they went with their emotion, support somebody who they thought would come and be different. And by Hillary Clinton saying over and over again he doesn't have the experience, he's a loose cannon, that might be true, again, but she's appealing to the voters' heads and what Donald Trump has been so successful in --

BALDWIN: Appealing to their hearts.

BASH: -- is Appealing to their hearts and appealing to the people who are again aggressively and actively rejecting somebody with the kind of experience that she's proposing.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: I know you've asked the tough questions. I don't want to be on the other side of you, Dana Bash.

Gloria Borger.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: You know, I want to say to build on what Dana is saying, you know, in hearing her talk about the issues and putting meat on the bones and all the rest.

BLITZER: Yeah.

BORGER: You know, it's very much reminiscent of Jeb Bush.

BLITZER: That's true.

BORGER: Jeb Bush kept saying during the campaign, you guys have to ask him the tough questions. He needs to tell you where he stands on the issues, et cetera, cetera, et cetera, and where did that get Jeb Bush?

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: And, again, it's not like we haven't asked it. It's just that he doesn't answer and his supporters are not supporting him because of his particular position on trade or his particular position on China. That's not why they are supporting him.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: So then how does the conversation change, Van Jones?

JONES: Well, look, I think a couple of things. One is Hillary Clinton has always put in this is double bind. Be authentic and she's authentically a wonk and then they say inspire me and she gets batted back and forth between these two things. What she needs to do is exactly what she was doing. She is who she is. She is a wonk. She believes in this stuff and she has to round out course. No one soloist can defeat this Trump megaphone. She needs a chorus of voices, President Obama will come out. I guarantee you in that rustbelt, heard all about the map that John says in the Rustbelt. Deploy a Michelle Obama to stand in Flint and say, you want a CEO president. A CEO governor gave you Flint. Trump will be running against both Clintons, both Obamas and both Sanders. That's the only way to deal with him because Trump himself is such a master of being so many different things inside of one sentence. But don't try to get Hillary Clinton to become the inspiration person in chief. She will be the wonk in chief, and will have a whole army behind her to deal with Donald Trump.

BALDWIN: Fascinating.

Let me remind everyone tuning in, you'll see much more of Wolf Blitzer's conversation with Donald Trump when they chatted earlier today in "The Situation Room" at 5:00 eastern. Do not miss that.

Coming up next, we'll have more from Anderson's exclusive interview with Hillary Clinton. We'll talk with former Obama senior advisers, David Axelrod and Dan Pfeiffer, and what they thought and what we need to talk about moving forward. You're watching CNN's special live coverage. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We'll being right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:42:56] BALDWIN: Today, on this day after the Indiana primary, CNN has spoken now both with Hillary Clinton and with Donald Trump. We just heard from Secretary Clinton, speaking live from Chappaqua, New York, with our own Anderson Cooper.

Let's continue this conversation moving forward with our political panel. Joining me now, CNN political commentators, David Axelrod and Dan Pfeiffer, both former senior advisers to Obama; and still with us Republican strategist, Doug Heye, former communications director with the RNC.

Gentlemen.

Mr. Axelrod, to you first. You watched the interview with Secretary Clinton. Your thoughts.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I did. Look, I think she seemed very confident, and you heard the themes that I think we're going to hear again and again and again, and we heard from John Podesta last night that Donald Trump is risky, that he's a loose cannon.

BALDWIN: Heard that four times.

AXELROD: That she knows what it takes to be -- what the presidency entails. And, you know, I think that that is probably a very solid way to go. Whatever people think about Donald Trump, there is this question about him with his finger on the button and making decisions that have life-and-death consequences. And she does have an advantage in this regard. People can see her in that job.

I heard the conversation earlier between Dana and Gloria about the whole issue of experience and Trump overcame that in the primaries, but this is a much different electorate. In the Democratic primaries, the experience issue, the experience quality has actually helped Hillary Clinton, and in a general electorate and general election, I think will help her as well so I think she's playing her strongest card her.

BALDWIN: Dana's point, in the end, was head versus heart and Trump is appealing to so many people's hearts.

Dan, specifically, we were just having a conversation about looking at the other Republicans who ultimately faltered. You had Jeb Bush saying to the media you guys need to be asking substantive questions of Donald Trump. We did. He is gifted in his answers. Let's put it that way, in some cases. You look at Marco Rubio, you look at just yesterday Ted Cruz and how they sort of ultimately went on the attack, and that was the end of their campaigns. So how does Hillary Clinton take on Donald Trump? [14:50:11] DAN PFEIFFER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think

David makes an important point here which is we should not assume that what worked with the Republican primary electorate will work with the general electorate. In fact, the evidence shows the opposite. If you look at the polling at the beginning of the Republican primary, you would see real opposition to establishment figures and real support for an outsider and real support for some of Donald Trump's most extreme positions on things like how to deal with Muslims, Syrian refugees and immigration, of course, and so what worked for him and was probably an asset in the primary is going to likely be a problem in the general election, and so I think Hillary Clinton certainly seemed confident. She seemed sort of enthusiastic, like she sort of woke up this morning and like thought I can't believe I get to run against Donald Trump, rotating the message on loose cannon and that's a good start and see how it plays out.

BALDWIN: Doug, I promise I'm coming to you.

But, David, I'm coming back. Trump said to Wolf, yes, I'm a counterpuncher. This is a man quoting the "National Enquirer" yesterday with regard to Ted Cruz's own father. I understand that you're saying apples and oranges, primary versus general. But there's some themes, the man is who he is.

AXELROD: Listen, I think he's an immensely talented marketer. He knows -- he's -- as I said last flight he's the first Twitter candidate. I mean, you know, he has gifts and he has no boundaries, and one of the things that think Hillary Clinton has to be prepared for is this is going to be about as much fun as a root canal for the next six months. He's going to be going after her every day. She seems to realize that and seems to be girding herself for that, but she also -- you know, you look at the CNN poll that was just released and I heard John king talking about what she needs to do to reassemble the Obama coalition. That poll suggested that she was -- she had a 94-5 lead among Democrats, so that's a good start, and 81-17 lead among non-white voters.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Overall 54-41.

AXELROD: Among women voters, 54-41 overall, but a 26-point lead among voters, so those are the elements of the Obama -- and, by the way, just a huge lead among voters under the age of 55. So those are the -- I think she had 59-35 there. Those are the elements of the Obama coalition, so she starts off in a strong position, but she's going to have to stand the constant barrage of attacks from Donald Trump which could come from anywhere, and as you point out from any source.

BLITZER: Doug, David Axelrod says Donald Trump has no boundaries. Do you agree?

HEYE: I think that's absolutely right. This is being set up to be irresistible force versus the immoveable object with Donald Trump being the irresistible force and moving things through his will. That's why you saw Hillary Clinton talk about different issues than what Donald Trump would talk about. She talked about issues of equality for gender pay and talked about climate pay. Tells me this election is not going to be so much about persuasion as it is about mobilizing your voters and that's where Hillary thinks that she can do the best.

BALDWIN: What about on this, Doug, this general election matchup poll? This is really the first one that truly, truly matters, has Secretary Clinton at 54 percent and Trump at 41 and the one category, you know, which Trump beats her, where Anderson tried pushing her was on the issue of the economy. We heard him talk about the economy last night in his speech there at Trump Tower. What does Trump need to do to turn that around?

HEYE: Well, he just needs to continue to hammer it home. Trade is obviously a big vulnerability which is why you saw Trump talking about NAFTA so much. As Hillary Clinton often highlights her husband's successes Donald Trump will try to use that against her. Look, this is the number one issue that's affecting voters right now. There is anxiety about the economy in every demographic, every sector of the country. It's why it's been so effective for him thus far in the economy and why Hillary Clinton will continue to try to talk about specifics to get him on the report on very specific things. We'll have to see if it matters to general election voters.

BALDWIN: We know that the V.P. vetting --

(CROSSTALK)

AXELROD: Brooke, I would --

BALDWIN: Go ahead, David.

AXELROD: I would just make one point on this economy issue. When you ask people a general issue about the economy, they may react differently than if you request them specific issues about how the economy affects them. Mitt Romney, for example, had about the same lead over President Obama at the time of the election in 2012 on who would better handle the economy, and yet he lost by a substantial margin, so it -- it really is important to get into the details of how people react to the economy. I think Trump has some real possibilities here around issues like trade. I think he'll push them, but I wouldn't make too much of this one number because, as I said, it didn't help Mitt Romney.

[14:55:07] BALDWIN: Is there any kind of candidate as a potential V.P., Dan Pfeiffer, that makes you as a Democrat nervous who Trump could be choosing?

PFEIFFER: Not a specific one, no. I think the best thing he can do is pick someone who will help answer the, you know, ready to deal with the world question, you know, someone with experience. I don't think -- he seems to think that getting someone with Congressional experience is the right move. I don't think that's necessarily the right move. I think that's more somebody like maybe a former military official, someone who would -- would be -- provide some sort of a backup if Trump is commander in chief but he's got problems going to be.

BALDWIN: We'll leave it there.

Dan Pfeiffer, thank you.

David Axelrod, great to have you on.

And, Doug Heye, thanks so much for sticking around.

HEYE: Thank you.

BLITZER: Appreciate all of you.

Coming up next, staying on politics, huge day here. We now know Ted Cruz is out. John Kasich will be out, waiting for that announcement officially later. Donald Trump is the last man standing on the Republican side of this race, the presumptive nominee. We will play for you Hillary Clinton's reaction in her very first interview since Donald Trump became the presumptive nominee.

You're watching CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:59:26] BALDWIN: And we continue on. You're watching CNN on this Wednesday afternoon. Thanks for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

The race for president has never been more clear as it is right now. Just a couple of hours from now, sources tell CNN Ohio Governor John Kasich will suspend his campaign, and this is just one day, not even a full day since Ted Cruz officially dropped out of the race.

Now, for the very first time, Hillary Clinton is responding to the fact that Donald Trump is the presumed nominee, the only Republican here still standing. Secretary Clinton just spoke exclusively to my colleague, Anderson Cooper. We will play just a piece of that for you in a moment.

Meantime, Donald Trump sat down with Wolf Blitzer today.