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Trump Wins Indiana; Cruz Drops Out of Race; Sanders Wins Indiana. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired May 04, 2016 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[03:00:00] JOHN VAUSE, CNN NEWSROOM SHOW HOST: Hello, everybody. You are watching CNN's election coverage. I'm John Vause, live in Los Angeles.
ISHA SESAY, CNN NEWSROOM SHOW CO-HOST: And I'm Isha Sesay. Hello, and welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world.
VAUSE: Indiana delivers the final blow to Ted Cruz's campaign. And Donald Trump is now the presumptive republican presidential nominee.
SESAY: It's a decisive victory for Trump with 53 percent of the vote, a bitter disappointment for Cruz who campaigned hard but got only got 36 percent, and Kasich is a distant third at 7 percent.
VAUSE: Trump needs 1,237 delegates to clinch the nomination. He is now less than 200 delegates away. For Cruz, the writing was on the wall, he went to all the stops in Indiana but his poor showing in the must-win state was the final straw.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED CRUZ, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: From the beginning, I've said that I would continue on as long as there was a viable path to victory. Tonight, I'm sorry to say...
(CROWD SHOUTING)
... it appears that path has been foreclosed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: Well, Donald Trump used the end of Ted Cruz's presidential base to begin the process of uniting the Republican Party. He even commended Cruz for pulling out of the race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This has been an amazing evening. I didn't expect this. I didn't expect it. And what Ted did is really a very brave thing to do and a great thing to do. Because we want to bring unity to the Republican Party. We have to bring unity. It's so much easier if we have it.
(APPLAUSE)
VAUSE: Let's turn to the democrats now, Bernie Sanders had a victory over Hillary Clinton in Indiana. With now he's win but undoubtedly gave him a little of mojo for the coming contest.
SESAY: Yes. Well, 52 percent of Indiana's voters supported Sanders to Clinton's 47 percent. But that doesn't help Sanders much in the delegate count.
VAUSE: Right now, Sanders has 1,443 delegates, Clinton 2,2,17. Those numbers include super delegates and a candidate needs 2,383 to win the democratic nomination.
SESAY: Now, joining us now our CNN political analyst Ron Brownstein, also CNN senior reporter for media and politics our own Dylan Byers. Good to have you both with us. We just heard Donald Trump talking about unity and also the GOP chairman Reince Priebus also invoking the same theme.
One put up what he had to say. He tweeted this a little bit early, Ron. He said, "Donald Trump will be the presumptive GOP nominee, we all need to unite and focus on defeating Hillary Clinton. Hash tag, never Clinton." That is easier said than done, isn't it, on uniting this.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Look, I mean, there's been a lot of divisions. I mean, you do get the sense that the New York primary was the point where the battering ram knocked down the door. I mean, up until then, Donald Trump was facing really organized resistance.
But since then, it's been a very different story. Up until New York he had not won 50 percent of the vote in any states. He's now won 50 percent of the vtes in seven straight states.
You do get the sense that among republican voters, if not republican elites, there has been, you know, there's been a change, a sense that the contest has been run, this is our guy, time to start focusing on the general election.
(CROSSTALK)
SESAY: Hold in line.
DYLAN BYERS, CNN SENIOR MEDIA AND POLITICS REPORTER: I think Ron is absolutely right. For the republicans who either opposed Trump or were sort of begrudgingly accepting Trump. There is this question of when do we finally have to give in? When is the moment that we have to accept him as our nominee?
And Ted Cruz obviously thought he could take it all the way to Indiana. But I do think for a lot of republicans they saw the fact that Donald Trump swept the northeast, and that Ted Cruz had failed to win the south, which was of course, his first and most significant firewall or supposed firewall. He failed to do that, he failed to win the northeast and then of course in Indiana, the whole thing fell apart.
VAUSE: Is it big to speak if you ask Donald Trump went out of his way to be very complimentary towards Reince Priebus, the chairman of the RNC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I want to thank and congratulate the Republican National Committee and Reince Priebus, who I just spoke to. He is doing a tremendous job, it's not an easy job, when he had 17 egos and now, I guess he is down to one. I don't know, is there a second?
(APPLAUSE)
I mean, is there a second. I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So, Ron, this is the same Republican National Committee that was rigging the system.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Right, right.
VAUSE: The fix was in.
BROWNSTEIN: Well, the level of vitriol between Trump and the party kind of structure has been unprecedented and going in both directions. What Mitt Romney said about Donald Trump, you know, the only precedent the people can find for a former nominee saying that I have a respective nominee. They have been Al Smith turning to the right against Franklin Roosevelt in the 1930s.
I mean, we have seen things we have never seen. Even tonight, John McCain's former top aide tweeting that he is with Hillary Clinton.
[03:05:02] I think you will see actually the most affections that Donald Trump will face. It will be from the national security side of the Republican Party.
So, there are lot of wounds here to heal. On the other hand, the nature of modern politics is already going to deeply polarized system, and there will be enormous pressure to fall in line, particularly because Hillary Clinton is so unpopular among the rank and file republicans.
SESAY: As you talk about that and the defection in the national security side, the point has to be. Donald Trump does deviate from the party on so many significant issues. I mean, there are more problems down the road with the national committee, correct?
BYERS: Yes. No, there are absolutely more problems down the road. What Donald Trump is doing here is remind me of the boxer. The boxer he goes into a fight trash talking his opponents just the way that Donald Trump has trashed the republican establishment, the RNC.
The fight happens and Donald Trump wins, he comes to faces, how great -- how great is my competitor. You know, he is such a great guy who I just beat to a pulp.
SESAY: Just beat to a pulp.
BYERS: That's exactly what's happening here. And I also think that Donald Trump is capable for brief periods of time of transitioning to being a general election candidate. He is thinking about framing this idea of himself being as a unifier and by at least pretending or appearing to extend an olive branch to the RNC.
He is setting up a scenario where the RNC sort of either has to fall into line with him or they look like the ones who aren't willing to sort of rally behind a single candidate.
VAUSE: OK. Unify who has a lot of opposites. They have been trying win over groups that have been alienated along the way during this primary campaign. He seemed to acknowledge that tonight when he spoke a few hours ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And I won with women, we won with men.
(APPLAUSE)
We won with Hispanics. We won with African-Americans. We won with every, virtually every category.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So, Ron, we will look at the exit polls.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
VAUSE: So, you know, how did he win and what were the problems for us?
BROWNSTEIN: Right. Well, obviously it's a different issue in the general election to win with these groups than those who participated in the republican primary. For example, there's very few Hispanics and African-Americans voting in the Republican Party.
VAUSE: Yes.
BROWNSTEIN: But within the context of the republican primary he did had a broader and more consistent coalition than his rivals. The core of his support right from the beginning were two men and non-college whites. Those blue collar white voters who really rallied to him right from the start.
But if you go beyond that, if you look at what happened there are 26 states with state polls. He won Evangelical Christians in 17 of them, more than Ted Cruz. He won non-Evangelicals in 23. That was the core of Ted Cruz's problem. He only won them in one. He won moderates, he won somewhat conservatives. Almost everywhere.
If you go down the list you will see that he also won non-college voters in 22 of them. He won the moderates in 22. He won somewhat conservatives in 21, and men in 21. What that tells you is that Donald Trump's coalition replicated itself all over the country to a greater sentiment.
You see you have candidates like John McCain, Mitt Romney were strong along the coast but not in the south and the heart land, and candidates like Huckabee in 2008, Rick Santorum in 2012 who they're reverse. Trump's coalition held together in all parts of the country. And in terms of the republican primary, that was a pretty dominating and consistent performance.
SESAY: But that's the republican primary.
BYERS: That's the republican primary. This is the -- this is very important. Ron is making a good point. Trump has a very broad coalition among republican voters.
He has won Hispanics and African-Americans the same way that we are winning viewers who don't watch television when it's dark outside. There are not that many of them, and the general election picture is a drastically different picture than the republican primary picture.
BROWNSTEIN: And that's what wrong when people say that Trump has been the ultimate Teflon candidate. In within the context of Republican Party, largely true and I even tell the truth there, but beyond that he is facing historically high unfavorable ratings among African- Americans, Hispanics, millennial, and women.
He has shown us a very agile political operator. He is probably not going to possibly accept those, he is going to move and all sorts of unpredictable ways to try to remedy them. But the fact is he begins the general election in a ditch with big groups that are all growing as a share of the electorate.
BYERS: That's very quick and talk about.
BYERS: Ditto.
VAUSE: Ditto. Bernie Sanders had a good night but not good enough. It wasn't the overwhelming win which he needed to get a lot of delegates but still he is staying in the race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Any concern that by extending the democratic primary, that it's going to set democrat and it's been consisting till July.
BERNIE SANDERS, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Not at all. Not at all. So, I have no doubt, zero doubt that what we have done in this campaign, what we are doing now and what we will do in the next six weeks is good for the Democratic Party, and it will result in a higher voter turnout.
(END VIDEO CLIP) VAUSE: And again, the exit polls in Indiana, 50 percent of the people there, the democrats said that Bernie Sanders staying in but energizing the party.
BROWNSTEIN: Maybe. And certainly, you know, he has shown he has a very hostile, has a very consistent coalition. He has now won voters 130 in 24 of the 26 states with exit polls, independents in 23 of them. He has beaten Hillary Clinton and this is maybe the most concern for democrats among blue collar whites in every state outside of the south except Ohio.
[03:10:00] And I think tonight was his biggest single margin among them anywhere. So, he has a clear coalition. He has every right to keep going. He has, you know, this really is not a mathematical path to surpass her.
But the problem is, from a democratic point of view, her negatives are going up with the general public as this race continues and he raise a sharper arguments against her.
SESAY: And, Dylan, is it possible for him to stay in the race and do no harm?
BYERS: No, well, look, I think he does harm. I think already the fact that Donald Trump won so decisively in Indiana and Ted Cruz drop out of the race. While Hillary Clinton is still having to deal with this thorn in her side that is Bernie Sanders. In that way he is already doing harm.
On the other hand, what he is doing is he said look, there's a very important group of progressive, progressive coalition, I speak for that group and you have to recognize that. You have to take them seriously, and when we get to the convention, you are going to have to reconcile yourself to that part of the Democratic Party.
And I think what Indiana did, by having Sanders win Indiana, what he said is like, we are here, we are not going anywhere and you can't discount us. And I think that's going to be really the story of the democratic convention.
SESAY: Yes.
BYERS: I have with -- you know, look, Hillary Clinton is going to be the nominee. The point is that Sanders and his coalition is going to have a big say in the sort of campaign that she runs in.
(CROSSTALK)
VAUSE: And delegates equals leverage.
BROWNSTEIN: And the next few stops on the calendar you probably give him more good nights. Yes.
VAUSE: OK. Ron and Dylan, thank you.
SESAY: Always a pleasure. VAUSE: Thank you.
BROWNSTEIN: Thank yuo.
SESAY: All right. We have a quick break. More CNN special election coverage coming up. Donald Trump finally has some kind words for Ted Cruz from 'lyin' Ted' to a great competitor.
VAUSE: And, you know, tabloid is now bearing the Republican Party after Trump's win in the Indiana primary.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KATE RILEY, CNN WORLD SPORT ANCHOR: I'm Kate Riley with your CNN World Sport headlines.
Despite winning on the night, Bayern Munich, has been knocked out to the Champions League by Atletico Madrid. The German side won 1-2 on the night. But will be ruling a missed penalty by Thomas Muller that set Atletico missed spot a kick of their own.
But Fernando Torres also missing Atletico will play either local rivals Real Madrid or Man City in the final. It's been business as usual for new English Premier League champions Leicester City. Manager Claudio Raneiri held the morning training session after just hours after winning the title. Thanks to Chelsea two all draw against Spurs.
And after training, that was followed up by lunch at a local Italian restaurant with the club stars to celebrate their achievement.
[03:15:00] But the league is not over yet. The Fox is to have a home game on Saturday against Everton, after the match, the squad will have a chance to lift the Premier League trophy.
And as we count down to the Rio games this summer, the Olympic relay got underway in Brazil's capital on Tuesday. It's just starting out on a three-month tour of Brazil.
And battle President Dilma Rousseff lit the torch and gave it to the Brazilian volleyball player Fabiana Claudino who has led the Brazil's female volleyball team to Olympic goal twice. Hundreds of people turned out along the torch's route.
And that's a look at all of your sports headlines. I'm Kate Riley.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED CRUZ, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Together, we left it all on the field in Indiana. We gave it everything that we've got. But the voters chose another path.
And so, with the heavy heart but with boundless optimism, for the long-term future of our nation, we are suspending our campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SESAY: Now, the republican field is down to two. Donald Trump scored
a decisive win with 53 percent of the vote in Indiana. Ted Cruz had 36.6 percent sound at the death now for his campaign, and he captured just 7 percent, John Kasich is trying to stay in.
VAUSE: Good for him. Bernie Sanders won the Indiana democratic primary. He beat Hillary Clinton with 52 percent of the vote. Sanders' victory was narrow but he says he now has momentum again.
SESAY: All right. Well, let's bring in Andy Dean, CNN political commentator and a Trump supporter.
VAUSE: Also from Sacramento, California, republican strategist Rob Stutzman with the stop Trump campaign. Rob, I just want to share with everybody the statement that has come from the never Trump campaign that we show a short time ago regarding Donald Trump, the fight goes on.
They say, "if nominated, he, Donald Trump, will lose in historic fashion. Threaten down ballot campaigns and likely usher in a Clinton presidency. This is indisputable when three out of four women view him negatively and solid great states like Utah and Mississippi are in play."
When the chairman of your own party says Donald Trump is the presumptive nominee, isn't it time to move on?
ROB STUTZMAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, the chairman has no choice. He has rather for (Inaudible) position on what he has to do. There are those of us who still feel very strongly for the good of this party and those that have to be on the ballot with Donald Trump.
We need to keep fighting on. And if he is going to be the nominee, at least create opportunities for those candidates to be able to step aside, and not be so closely identified.
We've already seen, for instance, in Arizona, John McCain is being attacked in commercials because he said he would support Donald Trump if he was the nominee. And the worst that there is out there on Donald Trump, which is quite a bit when you put the stern show into the mix is going to be using against republican candidates all across America.
SESAY: And Andy, what do you say to that despite that you may -- you may celebrate Donald Trump getting the nomination. But many say it has implications with down ballot races.
ANDY DEAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think if you look at the numbers, the turnout over the past six months of races in the Republican Party, turnouts are up over 60 percent, whereas on the democratic side, it's down by double digits.
So, with Rob, with the stop Trump movement, I almost feel like he has been living in a fall-out shelter for the past two to three months with no access to media. I mean, I can understand if this were seven or eight months ago before voting started and he had no, you know, idea what the American people thought. I mean, Rob would have a case. But now that he is talking like this when Trump has over 10 million
votes. That's the most any republican nominee has ever had in history way more than Mitt Romney and we still have another five to six states to vote left. I know what Rod, who is he hoping will win this? I don't get it?
(CROSSTALK)
VAUSE: So, Rob, are you the last Japanese soldier on the Pacipic Island not knowing the war is over?
STUTZMAN: Right. Thank you. What Andy -- what Andy is not pointing out, though is that Trump will also be the nominee if you becomes that with the most votes against him through the primary process. I agree, turn out is high.
But you have to look at the polls there. And it's 20 percent of republicans who are voting in high turnout, have a principled aversion to voting for Donald Trump in November. So, you have a turnout problem once this goes to a general election.
We have never had a nominee of our party who is so disliked not by the, just the general election voters, but by voters within his own party.
So, what we need to start hearing from Andy and then ultimately his candidate is what are you going to do to make conservative voters actually come adhere to you and want to follow along? Because they are not just going to get in line just because Reince Priebus says now is the time.
DEAN: Right. Well, one thing that he said, so many voters have voted against him. Trump is running against 16 people.
[03:20:01] So, obviously you are going to have a lot of votes against him. But as time as going on, as we have seen the last seven states that have voted, Trump is winning 50, 55 percent, 60 percent.
And look, as of May 4th, which is today, Cruz is out. So, now it's time for the party to come together. And of course there's going to be some wounds about things that have been said, but the dislike for Hillary Clinton is what's going to unite this party and then Donald Trump talking about creating jobs. And especially his discussion about trade in the Midwest.
(CROSSTALK)
STUTZMAN: How are you going to create jobs?
DEAN: The republican -- the Republican Party's only relative victory is for the industrial midwest. And Donald Trump can deliver that. And it would be nice if guys like Rob got on board the Trump train, instead of the never Trump movement like as you said a Japanese soldier fighting in 1947.
SESAY: How, I'm going to ask you again, how is he going to deliver the industrial Midwest?
DEAN: Right. So, it's about being tough on trade, with China, with Mexico, we've already said we need better negotiators, people with business experience. If you look at Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, these are people who have never run a business. They don't know what payroll looks like. They have never signed the front of a check.
Donald understands how business works. He understands international business trade negotiations. And we need somebody tough with China. You know, one last thing. The Chinese middle class has grown by over 70 percent over the past 10 years as far as wages, 70 percent.
The U.S. middle class over the past 10 years, income hasn't moved. There's something strange going on and we're going to figure it out.
VAUSE: OK. Donald Trump talked about the barrage of negative ads which were thrown at him during this campaign in Indiana. Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Sixty thousand negative ads, most of which are absolutely false and disgusting. And I said, how can anybody endure this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So, Rob, the question for you is what else can be done right now, you know, millions of dollars have been spent on negative ads against Donald Trump and it seems his vote goes up.
STUTZMAN: Well, actually, not that much has been spent against Trump, compared to what's about to come land on his head once the democrats start going to work on him. Look, in the midst of these ads that he claims have been running against him have just been so disgusting and awful. He is the author of disgusting and awful in lies, yet, it somehow offends him when it's done to him.
He has become the most unpopular nominee our party has ever put forward if that's what he becomes. So, these ads are having an effect, it's having an affect on the general electorate. It's having an effect on what our U.S. senators who are in some very tough races throughout the country are going to have to run through, in order to try to get re-elected.
And it's not enough to just say, for Andy and for Reince Priebus or anyone else to say, it's time to get in line. There needs to be principled reasons that are argued as to why conservatives should support Donald Trump. Protectionism...
(CROSSTALK)
DEAN: Rob, it's time to get in line after the people have voted. The people have voted and it's over. You need to understand that you may need counseling.
VAUSE: No. DEAN: And if we go to the most popular party choice like Romney or McCain which has been done for the past two elections, we're going to lose again. You have to listen to the people.
(CROSSTALK)
STUTZMAN: Andy, address the -- address the fact that he has these high negatives. How does he turn around these high negatives? How does he appeal to 58 percent of the women? Which is what Ron Brownstein just said what he needs.
DEAN: Ron, May I?
STUTZMAN: Andy, how does he do it?
DEAN: You know, high negatives back in June, back in June, 10 months ago, he had high negatives, everybody thought that a candidate he was a joke, and now we're seeing him winning 55, 60 percent of the vote.
OK. He is going to move towards the center like any...
(CROSSTALK)
STUTZMAN: In republican primaries.
DEAN: Yes, correct. And then once he's got the nomination, like any candidate whether you are Abe Lincoln or Ronald Reagan, you move towards the center to win the election. It's called politics. It's what every politician has to do to win. And there's one thing we know that Trump loves to do and that's win. And, Rob, we want you to join us, instead of this weird crusade that isn't god for you.
SESAY: So, Rob...
(CROSSTALK)
STUTZMAN: He is not like any candidate, Andy.
SESAY: Rob, you are throwing your weight behind John Kasich? I mean, what are you doing?
STUTZMAN: Well, in California, as long as John Kasich is on the ballot, we will be asking people to support him. We are hoping here that when people start to look at Trump in the role of presumptive nominee over the next four weeks that there's still time for them to have remorse and possibly still cast different votes here in California.
We acknowledge that that's somewhat unlikely but we're not going to stop trying to resist this disaster that is coming with Trump as the nominee for our party.
DEAN: I just feel bad for the people whoever are funding you, man. It's just a sad investment.
VAUSE: And we have a different tone from Donald Trump, you know, just hours after he was calling Ted Cruz 'lyin' Ted.' He got up there and he was actually quite gracious, surprised a lot of people in his victory speech. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Ted Cruz, I don't know if he likes me or if he doesn't like me. But he is one of a hell of a competitor. He is a tough, smart guy.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: He doesn't know if he likes him, well, let's hear from Ted Cruz. This is what Senator Cruz had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CRUZ: This man is a pathological liar, he doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. He lies practically every word that comes out of his mouth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[03:25:09] VAUSE: Very quickly, how do you come together after such a brutal, bruising primary campaign?
DEAN: The answer is a little time. Time, here is the...
SESAY: It heals all wounds, right?
DEAN: Yes. Well, almost all and in a couple of weeks, people are going to realize, look, it's just time to unite against Hillary Clinton. And we have two and a half months into the convention. By the time the convention rolls around the focus will be on defeating Hillary Clinton. And I think even Ted Cruz will become a Donald Trump supporter.
SESAY: Do you want a Cruz nomination?
DEAN: As far as a vice president? No.
SESAY: Do you want him to support?
DEAB: Oh, yes. Well, why not. We'll take any support we can get. Absolutely, yes.
SESAY: An endorsement.
DEAN: For sure. Yes, Ted Cruz endorsement. Sure. For sure.
VAUSE: Well, Andy, thank you very much.
DEAN: Thank you.
VAUSE: Rob Stutzman there, we appreciate you fighting the good fight for both hours. Thank you. SESAY: Thanks, guys.
DEAN: Thank you.
VAUSE: Well, after a bruising primary campaign, Donald Trump is now shifting his focus to the general election. Coming up, we will tell you how Hillary Clinton campaign will challenge his brass tactics.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. Without any major threat that's left in the field, Donald Trump is now the presumptive republican nominee. He won 53 percent of the vote in Indiana's primary.
And despite hard campaign, Ted Cruz just 36 percent, John Kasich way back on 7 percent, but, hey, standing the way.
SESAY: Now Trump needs to win just 184 more delegates to clinch the nomination.
VAUSE: After his crushing defeat in Indiana, Cruz told the supporters he decided that it was time to end his bid for the White House.
CNN's Sunlen Serfaty was there.
[03:30:00] SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the top aid of Senator Cruz describe his decision to suspend his campaign as a very personal one, one that he only made on election night, it's very clear that he had no viable path forward.
And it was very notable in his speech that he made no mention of Donald Trump whatsoever, and this now turns in to the key question for Ted Cruz going forward, will he put his support behind Donald Trump, or not?
I asked him as he left his concession speech tonight, he would not take the question. Got in his car and left with his family en route to Houston to his hometown, this will again be the question that haunts him. Until he makes a firm stance, the senator say it is very likely at some likely at some point he will make his views known, but in due time.
Sunlen Serfaty, CNN Indianapolis, Indiana.
SESAY: Well Bernie Sanders is victorious in Indiana's democratic primary. He edge Hillary Clinton with 52 percent.
VAUSE: But now he is winning in 43 delegates to Clinton's 38. However, Sanders is still trailing her the total number of delegates with 1443, she is 2217, that doesn't include super delegates.
SESAY: Well, Jeff Zeleny is following the Sanders campaign and bring us this report from Louisville, Kentucky.
SANDERS: Louisville, thank you. JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Bernie Sanders winning the Indiana primary over Hillary Clinton, a key boost of momentum for him. She had won five of the last six contests, now he is winning one more here. He said it boost his argument that he is the democrat who can best take on Donald Trump.
The challenge for Bernie Sanders is he will nearly split the delegates with Hillary Clinton. Those are democratic rules. It is a proportional system that will nearly split the delegates. That means the race does not change overall.
She still leads in pledge delegates she still leads in super delegates. But this win for Bernie Sanders certainly a big moment for him. She won the State of Indiana in 2008. She tried to win it but Bernie Sanders is victorious tonight, so he says this gives him one more argument to keep going forward in this democratic race.
Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Louisville, Kentucky.
VAUSE: Let's bring in Eric Bauman, who is the vice chairman of the California Democratic Party.
SESAY: Also James Lacy, a Donald Trump supporter and also of California. Gentlemen, good to have you both with us. James, to start with you, now that your man is the presumptive nominee, how does he differ from the man we have seen in the race so far?
JAMES LACY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, you know, Donald trump has shown a wonderful opportunity for republicans to be able to bring independents and more moderate voters over to our cause. We saw in Pennsylvania, for example, over 200,000 democrats changed their party registration to republican so that they have the opportunity to vote for him.
Now in California, believe it or not, two years ago, only 30 percent of eligible voters in the entire state voted. There were 17.2 million voters in the state. Even though Jerry Brown won that election for governor by a million votes, 17.2 million voters who were eligible to vote didn't vote.
We think that there is a very strong target not only in California, but in other states where Trump might even have a better chance to bring these disenchanted, these affected voters over to support him. And you know, Trump, I think is with the majority of people on many issues.
Seventy seven percent of Americans believe that immigration is a problem. Even in the Hispanic community. Fifty four percent according to a Pew study a couple of years ago showed that Hispanics care more about jobs than they do about immigration. That works very well for Trump's team.
SESAY: Same tone, same tone, same disposition?
LACY: Well, any candidate, republican or democrat that will gets their nomination, has to understand if they are going to win the election, that they need to broaden their appeal. And I think that that time is coming for Donald Trump and I think he will be very successful about it.
VAUSE: Eric, you know, as the vice chairman of the Democratic Party here in California, is California in play this year?
ERIC BAUMAN, CALIFORNIA DEMOCRATIC PARTY VICE CHAIRMAN: California is certainly not in play. Donald Trump has managed to aggravate, annoy and harass more women and more Latinos and more people who are struggling with the realities of life, with the necessities of life.
But here's the reality. You know, Mitt Romney was going to shake his etch a sketch and clear away everything he said. We now live in the age that everything you say is documented. And we'll be showing his wall, we'll be showing him talking about calling immigrants murderers, and rapists, and drug dealers on through the end of the year.
And let's face another reality. When you win in a close republican primary that's not going to vote in the general election. And the people who didn't vote in California, many more of them are Latinos and people of color, and low income people.
They are going to Donald trump. They are going to vote for Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders who will stand up for the rights of everyday people, every day working people without using that vial, sexist, racist, ethicist language.
SESAY: What about that point he makes that you can't just turn the page on what has been said? That it will come back and haunt him?
[03:35:00] LACY: Well, I think that everybody has heard all of the negative stories about Donald Trump as we were saying in the earlier segment that could be said. You know, Jeb Bush said that you are not going to be able to offend people on your way to the presidency and look where Jeb Bush is right now.
You know, Ronald Reagan was called a Teflon president and I think that and the reason he had that moniker was because he was able to say things that other politicians were not able to say.
I think Donald Trump is a completely different person. You know what he is, he is a very successful business person that became an entertainer that's become a politician that's en route to becoming president. It's a very different type of message. But I think that it's one that is going to resonate with people that are tired of politics as usual.
I mean, I got to say, I've been involved in politics for a long time. I'm a conservative. I'm so tired of hearing Cruz lecture me about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. You know, what we need in this country are jobs, we need international security, we've got a country that's just being completely run over, our foreign policy is running amuck. We lose when we do these things and Trump is addressing that.
VAUSE: Very quickly.
LACY: You know, 54 percent of voters in America will be women.
VAUSE: Right.
LACY: And when we replay the Megyn Kelly conversation, when we replay the trash talk that Donald Trump has said about women...
VAUSE: OK.
LACY: ... how do you think that's going to play?
VAUSE: OK. It does seem that both candidates are focusing on the general election. Trump took a swing at Hillary Clinton just a few hours ago in his victory speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And we are going to get those minors back to work. I'll tell you what. We are going to get those minors back to work.
(APPLAUSE)
We are not going to be Hillary Clinton and I watched her three or four weeks ago when she was talking about the miners, as if they were just numbers and she was talking about, she wants the mines closed and she will never let them work again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: And on the campaign trail, Hillary Clinton had to actually apologize for these comments which she had made in the debate, which she was confronted with a voter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: It was a misstatement because what I was saying is that the way things are going now, we will continue to lose jobs. That's what I meant to say. And I think that that seems to be supported by the facts. I didn't mean that we were going to do it. What I said was, that is going to happen unless we take action to try to help and prevent it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: You know, it's all tame now, but are we in for a race to the bottom for the campaign.
BAUMAN: Oh, listen, to be sure, this is going to be one of the most aggressive races we have seen. America is more divided than we have seen it. People are angrier on both sides than we have seen. But here's the reality.
When you look at the record of a businessman who bankrupted his businesses four times. When you look at the record of a guy who goes on television and talks the way that he does, says the things that he does, embarrasses America in front of the world the way that he does, and you contrast that with somebody who has been on the public stage for 25 years, who has had everything thrown at her and manages to stand up with poise and delivers positive suggestive and programs for how we can solve things in America.
Or even contrast that with Senator Sanders if he manages to pull it out and his solutions for the world. Here is the difference. One is a positive up beat look at the world, the other is a negative. You know what, we don't need a president who says, you're fired. We need a president that says, you are hired and Hillary Clinton is the one who will do it.
SESAY: James, briefly.
LACY: Yes, the problem is that Hillary Clinton is the continuation of the Obama presidency which has taken away jobs. Look, this is what your party has done in California.
Today, California has the highest poverty rate in the nation. One in 4 Californians live in abject poverty. We have not only have the highest poverty rate in the nation. We have very high unemployment. All of that has been created by a terrible economy. The Obama economy which was going to be the Hillary Clinton economy that has seen the slowest growth of GDP, even GDP going down over the past eight years.
Now let me tell you something. If you have lost your job, who you are going to be more offended by? Are you going to be more offended by Donald Trump's language or you're going to be more offended by the president -- the presidential candidate that caused the last...
(CROSSTALK)
BAUMAN: I got to point the last -- the last republican governor left us a $26 billion deficit and it was a democratic governor that who closed the deficit with the help of the democratic team. And in point of fact, there's a reason why republicans are now at 27 percent voter registration in California.
Because you know what? The people of California don't agree with what your party stands for.
LACY: You know, Eric...
(CROSSTALK)
BAUMAN: Your party is so out of touch with what Californians think. Come on, guys. Be realistic.
LACY: Eric it's just an old saw that a tax cut deduction, that a tax cut proposition 13 passed, you know, in 1978 and somehow the cause of all the problems today.
[03:40:01] You know, your party has been in control of the legislature for over 20 years, both houses of the legislature. OK. So maybe, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger was in there for a while. But everybody knows he was controlled by the...
(CROSSTALK)
BAUMAN: Seven years, my friend. That's quite a while. VAUSE: OK.
SESAY: We must leave it. Always appreciate this conversation. You know we'll do this again. Thank you.
VAUSE: Thank you for coming in.
LACY: Thank you.
SESAY: All right. Well, it takes tough elbows to compete in the blood sport of politics, but what in the world was Ted Cruz doing? Yes. That the old moment that is all over Twitter.
VAUSE: Ouch.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[03:45:00] (TECHNICAL PROBLEM)
DAVE JACOBSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I mean, I think he is trying to make the case. Look, I can help the ticket. I can bring Ohio. I'm the strongest candidate against, you know, the democrats like Hillary Clinton.
And so, you know, I think he's trying to position himself for some sort of cabinet position because he turned out in 2018. He's got nothing to lose at this point.
JOHN THOMAS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: But I don't think carry his own state, what this guy has done. Marco Rubio has more delegates and the problem with the process, look, Kasich has a low every head, so he doesn't have to raise money. He is not running TV ads, but the problem is, you become a laughing stock at certain point and lose credibility to begin on the V.P. ticket and that's what he is running in to right now.
SESAY: If you have any problems with the never Trump movement saying they are going to keep going?
THOMAS: No, I mean, they have ran out of oxygen. I don't know any major donor in the country that is still going to feed money into that organization. So, I think they are going to ran out of esteem, and then it's up to Donald Trump to shift his rhetoric to become a uniter.
I think with that tonight. That really was a different Donald Trump. He was more in control tonight; he was trying to welcome Ted Cruz to the endorsement band wagon. We'll see if Ted bites.
VAUSE: And Dave, very quickly. I mean, Ted Cruz was right about one thing, the party was looking for an outsider, just not him.
JACOBSON: Right, indeed. I mean, and that was the challenge for Ted Cruz, is he is sort of run against the Washington cartel.
VAUSE: Yes. JACOBSONL: He was supposed to be the outsider in this campaign and then he pivoted in Wisconsin to try to sort of coalesce the establishment support and they never rallied behind him. I mean, he hasn't even had a conversation with the Senate leader Mitch McConnell since he called him a liar.
VAUSE: OK. Stay with us because we'll take a short break. When we come back we'll talk about Bernie Sanders who is also sticking in the campaign, all the way to California he says and beyond.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PEDRAM JAVAHERI, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Weather watch time. Pedram Javaheri with for the Americas right now.
And this is what it looks like around the Midwestern U.S. with a storm system that is playing through the region and should bring in some light showers and notice the most active weather is right over the sunshine state. The State of Florida get some thunderstorms the next 24 or so hours.
And it's this particular region across the southeastern corner of the U.S. where the active weather continues and there's a potential for some severe weather, generally speaking, powerful winds and hail the main concern, again, across the Carolinas. It's the second straight day that this region has seen some rough weather with that storms being to pop up into the afternoon hours.
But here's what it looks like. New York City will go with 12 degrees. Big time difference as you work south at least for now. Twenty three down in Atlanta, same score out of Denver, Colorado.
And the Western U.S beginning to cool off the Western British Columbia also cooling off, thanks to this storm system and another one back behind it. So, if we go in to an active pattern around that region for the next few days.
How about down towards the Caribbean looking at generally quiet conditions, a few hours around San Juan, Caracas, Nassau, in particular could see a few thunderstorms pop up.
We know it is among the wetter times of year as we transition into this region of Port of Prince to Haiti, seeing some heavy rainfall in the last couple of days across this region. In fact, the month of May is the single wettest month of the year across that region.
[03:50:00] And watching some thunderstorms around Belize, showers possible across Salvador high there around 29.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: California is an outrageously expensive state in terms of region. You're right. And clearly, we are not going to spend $100 million on whatever it takes on media in California. So we have to decide the best way to allocate our resources.
We are going to go to California, and when we go to California, you are going to see very large rallies up and down that beautiful state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: Dave Jacobson and John Thomas are back with us. Dave, do you want to put your head in your hands when you hear that the fight continues on the democratic side.
JACOBSON: I think it's healthy for the party. I mean, he's struck a nerve in this country. People are clearly anxious and frustrated with the way the economy is working. We got low unemployment but we got income inequality. The rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer.
And look, I think as long as long as Hillary Clinton doesn't alienate the Bernie Sanders base before the convention, I think it's good for him to have a dialogue and a conversation and to excite and then to inspire young people to participate in the process. And he's got the resources to compete all the way to California.
VAUSE: But with that in mind, I thought there were three races going on in the democratic side either. Obviously, for delegates, for money and for the big crowds for the support. But he was bringing two out of three, the one that mattered he wasn't winning.
JACOBSON: Right.
VAUSE: But now he is losing the money race. You know, the money is drying up. And I think that really is the sign that it's time.
THOMAS: I think there's two important things here to look at on the democratic side, one is less about can Bernie Sanders win anymore, but why can't Hillary Clinton not put it away.
VAUSE: Right.
THOMAS: I mean, that's one story. And the other is, look, if I'm Bernie Sanders I stay in this thing, because until the indictment is ruled out, who knows? Stay in there.
(CROSSTALK)
JACOBSON: If I could add one thing.
VAUSE: Yes, please do.
JACOBSON: Bernie Sanders spent $2 million in Indiana and Hillary Clinton barely spent a penny. I mean, she wasn't up on TV like he was competing. She didn't pour staff into the...
(CROSSTALK)
THOMAS: She will spend money because she got hosed.
JACOBSON: Well, it's a red state. SESAY: I mean, the delegates. I mean, look at how it broke down.
THOMAS: Right. Now Hillary has math on her side at this point. But look, I think Senator Sanders also wants to extract a meaningful policy pull from her like a promise to demolish all the big banks and she is not willing to do that yet.
VAUSE: I mean, if you look at the math, he spent $2 million and will work five more delegates.
SESAY: Yes.
VAUSE: I mean, that's $400,000 apiece. I mean, that is not a good budgeting in my view.
JACOBSON: No.
THOMAS: Today, that is a liberal budget, right?
(CROSSTALK)
VAUSE: All right. David, let's talk about Ted Cruz, because, you know, he is a big storyline. He dropped out. I mean, this is just been such an awful way for Ted Crus. You know, the Lucifer comments, and everything that's going wrong. And even up until the very end. It's all over Twitter right now. He hugged his dad, his wife Heidi was there, and took an elbow to the head, you know, obviously, it was unintentional, but you know when you...
(CROSSTALK)
SESAY: But the optics.
VAUSE: The optics of this. And as the campaign like do you feel for these guys when you see this sort of stuff happening?
THOMAS: You know, you do. They put their heart and soul into it, but you also can't help but chuckle a little bit.
VAUSE: Yes.
THOMAS: Because it's ironic, you know, it's just his campaign is imploding, he is elbowing his wife. His V.P. picks are falling off the stage. Well, I mean.
(CROSSTALK)
JACOBSON: Well, I mean, it's Carly by the way.
VAUSE: Those the shortest V.P. runs as ever.
THOMAS: Yes. The shortest V.P. run in history. That's right.
VAUSE: The thing basically about Ted Cruz, you think about Ted Cruz. SO, this is a man who is a universally despised, how does he get out of bed and keep going every single day? Was that part of the calculation here, like I can't do this anymore? He is arguing with protestors.
THOMAS: Right. Well, when he went into this race, pre-Trump, he thought he was going to be the anti-establishment candidate.
JACOBSON: Yes.
THOMAS: He thought he was going to be the guy running against Washington, and then there was a bigger, louder person who is more anti-establishment than he was. But Ted Cruz has never cared to be liked. That's not his thing. So, I think he will go back to the Senate and be just fine. They can call him Lucifer all they want, he doesn't mind.
JACOBSON: Look, two weeks ago, he won Wisconsin. Everybody said it was a turning -- we even said it was a turning point in the race. Everyone thought he was going to get a jolt of momentum that was going to help sort of peel away some of the Trump votes in the northeastern part of the country.
I think the challenge was he wasn't able to coalesce the establishment behind him. He was able to do it in one state but not nationally.
(CROSSTALK)
THOMAS: It looks like the establishment endorsing was like watching people intervention.
[03:05:02] JACOBSON: Yes. He is doing it but he didn't won.
VAUSE: We have a lot of turning points there. Guys, thank you.
SESAY: Thank you so much.
JACOBSON: Thank you.
SESAY: All right. Well, more election coverage coming up. Including a New York tabloid now burying the Republican Party after Trump's win in the Indiana primary.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Well, the big news is Bernie Sanders down but not out after winning Indiana's democratic primary. He beat Hillary Clinton 52 percent to 47 percent on Tuesday night.
SESAY: And Donald Trump becomes the presumptive republican nominee after his big win in Indiana. Ted Cruz suspended his campaign after getting just 36 percent of the vote.
VAUSE: Wednesday's front cover of the New York Post celebrating Donald Trump's decisive win in the Indiana primary. The New York businessman is now the presumptive republican nominee.
SESAY: And the Post's rival the Daily News out a different take, they say it spells the death of the Republican Party. VAUSE: The death cause by an epidemic of Trump and calling to the
newspaper. The New York Daily News is, you know, they have gone after Trump, you know, all throughout this campaign, they have had some hilarious front pages. Some very much and keep us in all of these.
But of course, you know, now it's on to the election for Donald Trump. For Hillary Clinton she still has to wrap it up against Sanders.
SESAY: But the point to be made the never Trump campaign says they will still keep going no matter what that looks like.
VAUSE: Yes. They are going to raise some money, I guess and give it to Kasich.
SESAY: Who knows?
VAUSE: Thank you for joining us. I'm John Vause in Los Angeles.
SESAY: And I'm Isha Sesay. To our viewers in the United States, our coverage of the Indiana primary continues now with John Berman and Christine Romans in New York.
[03:59:56] VAUSE: And for everyone else, CNN Newsroom with Max Foster starts right now.
