Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

Trump Picks National Finance Chairman; Some Republicans Call For Third-Party Candidate; GOP Grapples With Presumptive Nominee Trump; Tracking Trump's Rise To The Top Of The GOP; Trump Campaign Defied Conventional Politics; How Trump Defied The Political Odds; Trump Says Clinton Will Get Nomination Because It's A Rigged Deal; The State of the 2016 Presidential Race; Labor Secretary Tom Perez Backs Clinton. Aired 1:00-1:30p ET

Aired May 05, 2016 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Baghdad. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

The next phase of the presidential race here in the United States is officially underway today, at least for one party. While Republicans debate whether to coalesce behind their presumptive nominee, Donald Trump, he's already moving ahead.

Today, naming a financial finance chairman, Steve Mnuchin. The private investment firm CEO will now be Trump's money man for the general election campaign. All this while the 2012 Republican presidential candidate, Mitt Romney, says he will not, repeat not, attend the Republican convention this summer.

On the Democratic side, it's full speed ahead for both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. They're on the campaign trail, once again today, as is, by the way, Donald Trump. The messages are clear. Trump is hitting Clinton. Clinton is hitting Trump. And Sanders is hitting both of them as he keeps pushing ahead to the Democratic convention.

West Virginia is next up for the Democrats this coming Tuesday. Kentucky and Oregon are the other big prizes before we all go to California on June 7th.

Republicans, meanwhile, are coming to grips with Donald Trump as their presumptive presidential nominee and he's shifting his campaign into general election mode.

Let's bring in our panel, our Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger and our Senior Political Reporter Nia-Malika Henderson. Gloria, so he's named this new national campaign chairman, a finance chairman if you will, to go out there and raise money, Steve Mnuchin. This is significant.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it's very significant because don't forget that Donald Trump has spent this entire campaign calling his opponents puppets, that's the word. Puppets because they relied on super pacs for their funding. He's also got a super pac now.

So we have to wait and see how Donald Trump is going to raise money. He's obviously going to put some of his own money into this but he understands what a juggernaut he's up against with the Democrats.

But it does represent a huge change for Donald Trump. And we're going to have to see, will he say, OK, I'm going to limit these contributions to $100?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Right.

BORGER: Well, I'm going to make them $27, like Bernie Sanders. Well, I'm -- will they be a thousand dollars? Because he still has to be able to make the case that he's not bought and sold. That's the case he was making --

HENDERSON: Yes.

BORGER: -- against his opponents. He's been making it against --

BLITZER: Because individual --

BORGER: -- Hillary Clinton.

BLITZER: -- contributions can go, what, up to $2,700, something like that.

BORGER: Will he limit that? Will he make it lower? I mean, we're just going to have to wait and see because they're going to need the money to compete with Hillary Clinton.

BLITZER: Do you want to just weigh in on that?

HENDERSON: Yes. No, I think that's right. I mean, I think if you look at 2012, a billion dollars apiece, Mitt Romney and Barack Obama, in terms of running for the White House. Donald Trump is in, I think, a bit of a pickle here, not only in terms of the branding and what it means now for his brand and he's going to raise money. But he's so behind --

BORGER: Yes.

HENDERSON: -- because you've had Hillary Clinton and the Democrats really shaking the money for --

BORGER: Eight months.

HENDERSON: -- yes, shaking the trees for money and being successful in raising it and building the infrastructure. I think it'll also be interesting to see whether or not Donald Trump, some of the small money donations. He was able to do some of that on Twitter, raised about $12 million that way. Is he able to kind of combine it?

BLITZER: They are going to need more $12 million.

(CROSSTALK) BORGER: Well, they have the Hillary victory fund which has already raised about $60 million.

BLITZER: Yes.

BORGER: So, yes, it's a lot of money.

BLITZER: He's suggesting that he may need a billion dollars --

HENDERSON: Yes.

BLITZER: -- to be competitive --

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: -- against Hillary Clinton.

BORGER: And, look, he's very wealthy, as he tells us. But how much of his money -- he says he has put over $30 million --

HENDERSON: Yes, it's something like 30.

BORGER: -- into this campaign. So, it's going to be a question of how much he's willing to spend --

BLITZER: Right.

BORGER: -- personally.

BLITZER: So, Mitt Romney not going to be attending --

BORGER: Not going.

BLITZER: -- the Republican convention in Cleveland this coming July. We know that John McCain won't be attending. Neither of the Bush presidents will be attending. Is this a statement they're making?

BORGER: I think -- look, I think it is. But Mitt Romney, in particularly. I mean, Mitt Romney has already said -- publicly, gave a speech against Donald Trump, has said that he's not going to vote for Donald Trump. We don't know if he's going to vote for a third- party candidate or -- I'm assuming he's -- you know, I don't know about Hillary Clinton. But I'm --but we -- but not going to the convention is a -- is a statement. And I think, you know, it's quite stunning.

BLITZER: And now, we're also hearing that there are some Republicans out there who can't, you know, stomach voting for Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton, for that matter. They're looking for a third-party candidate. Senator Ben Sasse of Nebraska, he posted this on Facebook. We -- why are we confined to these two terrible options? This is America. If both choices stink, we reject them and go bigger. That's what we do. Is that really a viable option, though, a third-party independent candidate?

[13:05:04] HENDERSON: You know, I mean, the problem, right now, seems to be who would that be, right? I mean, never mind all of the red tape that they would have to cut through, in terms of getting on a -- on state ballots and raising the money and all of that. It's who would it be? Ben Sasse doesn't seem to be coming forward. And he seems to be raising the idea.

And Bill Kristal, for a while, had talked about Jim Mattis, this general who also seems to be reluctant. But there had been some movement around his candidacy. He seems not to be interested. So, it's -- you know, I -- you know, if there is a third-party candidate, I think we know what would happen. It would be very likely that it could give the general election to Hillary Clinton.

BORGER: Yes.

HENDERSON: And if they do that, I mean, it's sort of their way -- their ultimate way of stopping Donald Trump. So, we'll see if they're able to get this together.

BLITZER: But very quickly, Gloria. If there's a third-party candidate -- and I don't know if they could even put that together. But let's say somebody really impressive --

BORGER: (INAUDIBLE.)

BLITZER: -- does emerge and prevents the Republican or Democratic nominee from reaching that 270 --

HENDERSON: Right.

BLITZER: -- electoral college threshold, it's then thrown to the --

HENDERSON: To the House of Representatives.

BORGER: House of Representatives, yes.

BLITZER: -- House of Representatives. And if there's a Republican majority in the House of Representatives, the Republic -- presumably, the Republican nominee would be elected in the House of Representatives.

BORGER: Right. And, you know, the -- I think there's such an intense debate going on inside the Republican Party right now about whether you do this or, as the "Wall Street Journal" editorial board believes, you know, let Donald Trump hand it to Hillary Clinton by our own votes. If she wins, let her win. And then say to these people, OK, you had your shot. You lost. And now, let's reconstitute the Republican Party.

So -- but, you know, there's the Eric Erickson group who says, you know what? We have -- we owe it --

HENDERSON: We got to (INAUDIBLE.) Yes.

BORGER: -- to ourselves to run somebody else.

BLITZER: Gloria, Nia, thanks very much. A year ago, Donald Trump wasn't even in the presidential conversation. But in June, he jumped in the race, throwing the political machine on it -- on its ear, if you will. Then, it was a quick and controversial rise to the top of the Republican field. And the campaign that left a lot of us with some truly unforgettable moments.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am officially running for president of the United States, and we are going to make our country great again.

When Mexico sends its people, they're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. Their rapists. I will build a great, great wall and I will have Mexico pay for that wall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not going to pay for that (INAUDIBLE) wall.

BLITZER: How are you going to make them pay for the wall?

TRUMP: I will and the wall just got 10 feet taller, believe me.

MEGYN KELLY, ANCHOR, FOX NEWS: You've called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals. Your Twitter account --

TRUMP: Only Rosie O'Donnell.

You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump said the following about you, quote, look at that face, would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president?

CARLY FIORINA (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think women all over this country heard, very clearly, what Mr. Donald Trump said.

TRUMP: I think she's a beautiful woman. My first wife thinks I'm great and my second wife and my -- and I have a great marriage.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He believes in inspiring women, empowering women.

TRUMP: If Hillary Clinton were a man, I don't think she'd get five percent of the vote. The only thing she's got going is the woman's card.

Ah, I don't know what I said. Ah, I don't remember. I could stand in middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?

LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And you know how to make America great again, tell Donald Trump to go to hell.

TRUMP: You have this guy, Lindsay Graham, a total lightweight, and he gave me his number, and I found the card. Let's try it. 202 -- JEB BUSH (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think he believes he can insult his way to the presidency.

TRUMP: The World Trade Center came down during the reign of Bush. He kept us safe? That's not safe.

Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.

I'm the worst thing that's ever happened to ISIS. I would bomb the (INAUDIBLE) out of them.

With the terrorists, you have to take out their families.

Would I approve water boarding? You'd bet your ass I'd approve it.

If and when the Vatican is attacked by ISIS, the pope would have only wished and prayed that Donald Trump would have been president. For a religious leader to question a person's faith is disgraceful. Two Corinthians, right? Two Corinthians, three seventeen. That's the whole ball game.

And he walks in with the bible held high, right? It's lying Ted. He puts the bible down and then he lies.

She said he's (INAUDIBLE.) Terror.

I didn't start it. I didn't start it.

ANDERSON COOPER, ANCHOR: Sir, with all due respect, that's the argument of a five year old.

[13:10:02] TRUMP: This guy, I call him little Marco.

It's Rubio.

MARCO RUBIO (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Have you seen his hands? And you know what they say about men with small hands.

TRUMP: He referred to my hands that they're small. Something else must be small, I guarantee you, there's no problem. I guarantee it.

You know, Hillary -- crooked Hillary, right? Hillary is running for a lot of reasons. One of them is because she wants to stay out of jail.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump finally a candidate whose hair gets more attention than mine.

TRUMP: I don't wear a toupee. It's my hair.

TAPPER: Will you unequivocally condemn David Duke and say that you don't want his vote or that of any other white supremacists in this election?

TRUMP: I don't know anything about David Duke, OK? I don't know anything about what you're even talking about white supremacy. TAPPER: Would you just say unequivocally you condemn them and you

don't want their vote?

TRUMP: Well, I have to look at the group.

There is no rally like a Trump rally and nobody gets the people. That I can tell you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a fight going on down here. This is a very sad scene that we're seeing.

TRUMP: Here's a guy throwing punches, nasty as hell, screaming at everything else. I'd like to punch him in the face, I'll tell you.

I am best on terrorism, best on the economy, best on trade. I have all these things. Why don't we just call off the election today? Let's put the country back in shape.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Everyone said it wouldn't happen. Everyone was wrong. That's what CNN Politics Senior Reporter Stephen Collinson writes about the rise of Donald Trump. He goes on to say, and I'm quoting him now, "Donald Trump pulled off one of the most unlikely electoral coupes of modern times, toppling the political and media establishment to become the presumptive presidential Republican presidential nominee.

Stephen Collinson is with us right now. Stephen, excellent article. How did he pull it off?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: I think we're going to be studying this for years, Wolf. I think it's very important to remember this guy is a huge celebrity, even though he wasn't a politician when he launched his campaign. And the campaign, let's remember, there was a bit of a national joke to start with. He mastered the media. He brings a Marston (ph) genius eye to politics.

But I think the most important thing, probably, is that Donald Trump, before anybody else, tapped into the zeitgeist of this election. This feeling that the Washington's elites from the political establishment deserted ordinary Americans. They don't understand what they're feeling, what they're thinking and what they are saying. And Donald Trump was the only candidate who was able to do that in the early stage. And I think that's why his campaign took fire -- caught fire and that's why he's -- he was able to prevail ultimately in the primary.

BLITZER: He really eviscerated, as you write, that's the word you use, 16 other politicians, many of whom have excellent resumes, elected officials. Did they underestimate him?

COLLINSON: I think everybody underestimated Donald Trump. If you -- if you look back to the beginning of this campaign, nobody thought that Donald Trump would be able to do what he did. And if you look at when the candidates who -- let's remember, this was seen as the most talented Republican field in a generation with rising stars.

There were -- people were talking about two or three potential presidents in this field, when we first started out back last year in New Hampshire and Iowa. So, what Donald Trump was able to do was that they didn't attack him until it was too late. They -- their campaigns were in mortal danger by the time they got wise to what was happening and it was too late. We saw it with Ted Cruz this week in Indiana.

BLITZER: You say he revolutionized the way campaigns are won. In what way?

COLLINSON: He basically had a campaign -- he didn't have lots of money men. He didn't have pollster. He didn't really have a grassroots' organization in many of these states, in Iowa and New Hampshire, early on. That's the traditional way campaigns have been run. And that's why many people in the game thought that eventually Donald Trump's fire would burn out. He basically based the campaign around social media, around his own personality, his own ability to capture the news agenda in every single day.

But, again, I think we have to go back to the fact that he was speaking for people in a way that President Obama spoke for people in the 2008 campaign. Donald Trump identified a big enough block of voters to speak for that would power his campaign to the nomination.

BLITZER: Excellent piece on CNN Politics.com. I recommend our viewers read it. Thanks very much, Steve Collinson, for that.

Programming note, the House speaker, Paul Ryan, will offer his take on Donald Trump and the race ahead when he speaks to our own Jake Tapper later today on "THE LEAD." That comes up at 4:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

Coming up next, Hillary Clinton's brand-new phrase to describe Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I don't think we can take a risk on a loose cannon like Donald Trump running our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We'll talk to a key Clinton supporter about how the Democratic front-runner is now preparing to take on the presumptive Republican nominee and comments like this one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: She's only going to get the nomination because it's a rigged deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:14:52]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:18:41] BLITZER: Donald Trump has no more opponents on the Republican side, while Hillary Clinton still has to compete with Bernie Sanders. But that doesn't mean Hillary Clinton isn't already focusing in on Donald Trump.

Here with me is the Labor secretary, Thomas Perez. He's here in his personal capacity as a strong supporter of Hillary - your name has been floated, even, as a possible vice presidential running mate. How's that working out, by the way?

THOMAS PEREZ, SECRETARY OF LABOR: That's other people that talk about it. I'm just focused on my day job and then in my personal capacity helping her get elected.

BLITZER: Are you already into this notion that the general election campaign between Trump and Clinton is underway?

PEREZ: Well, Secretary Clinton is out there fighting for every vote in the primary election. She's out in California today. And she's talking about immigration. And I can't think of an example of the differences between more stack between Secretary Clinton and Donald Trump. He wants to build a wall. She wants to break down barriers.

I mean, Donald Trump, I was reading about folks saying, get on the so- called Trump train. Well, frankly, the Trump train is a train wreck for immigrants. It's a train wreck for Muslim. It's a train wreck for workers. It's a train wreck for American values. It's a train wreck for people who believe in collecting bargaining. And the differences between Secretary Clinton and the - and the inclusive campaign that she's running and the divisive campaign that Mr. Trump is running couldn't be more stark.

[13:20:02] BLITZER: Because on immigration, he wants to deport the 11 million undocumented immigrants and let the good ones, he says, eventually come back.

PEREZ: No.

BLITZER: She says they should be allowed to have a pathway, not only to legal status -

PEREZ: Right.

BLITZER: But to citizenship as well, right?

PEREZ: Absolutely. And that's a year one priority for Secretary Clinton and a 100 day priority for Donald Trump is deport people. That's not who we are as a nation. That's not who we are as a nation to ban Muslims from coming into the country. I've spent a long time as a civil rights lawyer working with Muslim community. And Donald Trump, today, talks about banning Muslims. You know, a generation ago, in that same community in Tennessee that I worked a few years ago, they were trying to ban Catholics. So we've been to this movie. And it's a movie that's always been inconsistent with American values.

BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) -

PEREZ: And that's why Secretary Clinton is standing up for incompletion and the opportunities that she want to give to everybody.

BLITZER: Yesterday when I interviewed him in New York at Trump Tower, he reiterated his position that there should be a temporary ban on Muslims coming to the United States until the U.S. can figure out the issue of terrorism.

PEREZ: Well, I sure - I sure hope he talks to the Muslims who are serving our nations armed forces with great distinction and ask them what they think.

BLITZER: We also had an interesting exchange on the issue of raising the nation's federal minimum wage. I'll - let me play that for you.

PEREZ: OK.

BLITZER: You know something about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You're happy with $7.25, the current federal minimum wage. You can't live on $7.25 in America.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. And I'm actually looking at that because I'm very different from most Republicans. I mean you have to have something that you can live on. But what I'm really looking to do is get people great jobs so they make much more money than that, so they make much money than - more money than the $15.

This is being brought -

BLITZER: If you were president, what would you recommend?

TRUMP: No, I'm looking at it, but I - I don't like -

BLITZER: But you're open to raising the minimum wage.

TRUMP: I'm open to doing something with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That was the first time he's said he's open to raising the federal minimum wage, which is $7.25 now. Hillary Clinton says maybe bring it up to $12 to start with. Bernie Sanders says $15, that's got to be the minimum federal - federal minimum wage.

PEREZ: Listen, the minimum wage stands for the proposition that nobody who works a full-time job should have to live in poverty. And it's laughable to look at that quote because I'm - I'm looking at a headline from a year ago, Donald Trump, quote, "having a low minimum wage is not a bad thing for this country." This is what he's said consistently.

BLITZER: And now he says he's open to raising it. He's looking - he says he's looking at it.

PEREZ: Well, wow, I'm stunned by his campaign conversions. Donald Trump is a loose cannon, indeed. Donald Trump is unreliable. Donald Trump, when unions were organizing at the Trump hotels in Las Vegas, fought that tooth and nail. Donald Trump fought collective bargaining tooth and nail. Donald Trump doesn't stand for increasing the minimum wage. And Donald Trump needs to talk to the people that I meet day in and day out. The woman I met in Detroit who slept in her car the night before - she's a fast-food worker - because - she slept in her car with her three children because, you know what, they couldn't make ends meet. And that's what Hillary Clinton is all about, making sure that people can earn a livable wage. She's been very consistent in showing that she wants to break down these economic barriers, not only by lifting the minimum wage, but by passing comprehensive immigration reform, which will open up economic opportunity for everyone.

BLITZER: Here's what you have to worry about, and you're a strong supporter of Hillary Clinton. I know you are.

PEREZ: Sure.

BLITZER: The CNN/ORC poll we did this week, question, who would better handling the economy? Look at this, Trump, 50 percent, Hillary Clinton, 45 percent. That's disturbing from your perspective?

PEREZ: Well, once the American people understand the Trump train wreck, the Trump train wreck on minimum wage where you're telling a working mom that $7.25 an hour is not a bad thing for America, the Trump train wreck where his education plan, if it's anything like Trump University, that's an - that's an "F." The Trump train wreck in terms of collective bargaining, which is a big thing that brought us to the middle age (ph).

BLITZER: But you can't underestimate Donald Trump. The 16 other Republican candidates, governors, senators, pretty prominent people, they underestimated him, and look who's the nominee?

PEREZ: Well, one thing I know about Hillary Clinton, she will never underestimate anybody. And she will fight. And she will fight with the values that have made this nation great with the power of we.

BLITZER: Is she ready to fight - fight Donald Trump?

PEREZ: Well, I've got a one word answer and a two word answer to that. The one word answer is, yes. And the two word answer is, hell yes, because she understands what's at stake. She is about marshaling the power of we. And when we look, as a nation, at how we come together to solve problems, now how we come at each other, that's how we win. In 2008, you know, President Obama, he summoned our better angels. And I always believed that hope and optimism always Trumped cynicism. And Hillary Clinton understands that and she's been fighting to break down barriers her entire career. She has a very comprehensive plan to continue to grow this economy.

[13:25:01] BLITZER: All right. Very quickly, your name has frequently now been mentioned as a possible vice presidential running mate for her. Where does that stand?

PEREZ: I have no idea. And, you know, I just - I do my day job, Wolf, and I love my day job because we're helping expand opportunity for everyone. And then, in my spare time, sometimes on my lunchtime, like today, I get out there for Secretary Clinton because she's a dreamer and a doer, and I want to be there to make sure she gets elected to continue the progress under President Obama and to take it to an even higher level.

BLITZER: Thomas Perez, thanks very much for joining us.

PEREZ: Take care.

BLITZER: Good to know you're a fellow Buffalonian as well.

PEREZ: Go Bills.

BLITZER: I agree.

So what would a general election look like with Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump as the nominees? We're going to break down the strategies for both campaigns going forward. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:30:08] BLITZER: While Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump's campaigns may be worlds apart, their messages for the general election are very much the same.