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Palin Vows to Oust House Speaker Ryan; Sanders Still Fighting "For Every Vote"; Canada Wildfire Sends Smoke to Florida; CNN Exclusive: Onboard a U.S. Nuclear Sub; Fears North Korea May Be Preparing for New Test; Obama's Starring Role in Elections Campaign; Trump's Billionaire Supporter Speaks Out; Guessing Game Over Trump's VP Pick. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 08, 2016 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[18:00:00] PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: In fact, she told CNN's Jake Tapper that Paul Ryan ruined his own political career and that she'll work to run him out of office.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH PALIN, FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: I think Paul Ryan is soon to be Cantored, as in Eric Cantor, and his political career is over because he disrespected the will of the people. Yes, as the leader of the GOP, the convention certainly, he is to remain neutral and for him to already come out and say who he will not support was not a wise decision of his.

You know, I think why Paul Ryan is doing this, Jake, is it kind of screws his chances for 2020 presidential bid that he is gunning for if the GOP were to win now, that wouldn't bode well for his chances in 2020, and that's what he is shooting for.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Well, Donald Trump and House Speaker, Ryan, are scheduled to have a face-to-face meeting on Thursday, and Trump's comments about it yesterday, quote, "I think Paul Ryan will be fine. If he's not, that's OK."

Here to break it all down, our political panel Trump supporter and Republican strategist, Boris Epshteyn, CNN political commentator and host of "The Ben Ferguson Show", Ben Ferguson, and Republican strategist and former online communications director for the RNC, Liz Mair, and finally, senior reporter for CNN Politics, Stephen Collinson.

Great to see you all on this Sunday, on this Mother's Day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy Mother's Day.

BROWN: Happy Mother's Day to everyone.

Ben, I want to go to you about Sarah Palin and her comments about Ryan. Is this her trying to stay relevant in the fight between the Tea Party and the establishment? How much power does Palin really wield?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think she has very much power and every time she tries to reinsert herself, it's just like watching a bad movie get remade for the second and the third and fourth sequel, and it doesn't ever get any better. You need to know when to tap out, and for her to act as if somehow she knows how Paul Ryan has ruined his career, I would tell Sarah Palin, she might want to look at her own career. I think she's about to do reality TV show as a judge and she's not even a lawyer, so before you start casting stones at the speaker of the house saying his political career is over, you might want to look at your own political career and see where you are in the near future. This is just her trying to stay relevant and it's pretty sad.

BROWN: What do you think, Boris, do you think Trump needs to denounce this considering he has a meeting coming up with Paul Ryan and many political pundits say that he needs Paul Ryan support in the general.

BORIS EPSHTEYN, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Donald Trump does not have to denounce Governor Palin's statement. Governor Paul is her own person. She is someone who does have a large following, someone who has a lot of people who trust what she says and value her opinion. And that's absolutely fine. America is a free country and she is entitled to say what she wants.

Now, As you said, Donald Trump said, we expect Paul Ryan to support Donald Trump for the presidency, and if Paul Ryan decides not to, that's his choice, and that's fine, too. We as Republicans who back Donald Trump are very confident that just the overwhelming majority of Republicans will be behind his bid, but a lot of those blue dog Democrats and independents as well.

So, as far as Governor Palin is concerned, of course, she's a Donald Trump supporter, we welcome her. But welcome all others as well.

BROWN: And today, Boris, Senator John McCain broke his silence over Trump suggesting that McCain wasn't a war hero because he was captured. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: What he said about me, John McCain, that's fine, I don't require any repair of that, but when he said I don't like people who were captured, then there's a body of American heroes that I would like to see him retract that statement, not about me, but about the others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, McCain actually plans to vote for Trump, but even they thinks Trump needs to make amends with former prisoners of war. What do you think, Boris, do you think Trump should apologize to former prisoners of war? EPSHTEYN: Now, there's a benefit to being a nonpolitician for a long

time, and, of course, there is a downside to it as well. And Donald Trump is someone who speaks off the cuff, he's not a scripted candidate. So, that was one of those comments made off the cuff, as (INAUDIBLE) campaign, it was absolutely not.

But as Senator McCain is out there saying, the Republicans, including himself very importantly, are now coalescing around Donald Trump.

BROWN: But should he apologize is what the question is? I want Boris to answer that. Should he come out and finally apologize?

EPSHTEYN: If he decides that that's the best thing for his campaign, that's up to Donald Trump. He can do so. But does he need to? I don't think he needs to.

FERGUSON: Here's the thing, it shouldn't be about doing the right thing for veterans. There are many men and women who fought for this country that have been captured fighting for this country and tortured after they were caught and he said I don't like people to get caught --

(CROSSTALK)

EPSHTEYN: It was an off-hand comment.

FERGUSON: Let me finish. You are running for president, and there's no longer off the cuff, it's not good enough response to when you screw up this big with the veterans.

[18:05:02] If he's going to be a commander in chief, this is a perfect moment for him to say I'm sorry --

EPSHTEYN: Go back to a comment made in July or August of last year --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: I want to bring Liz in to get her voice in here. Liz, go ahead.

LIZ MAIR, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: If I could just interject. I mean, first of all, I think this notion that Donald Trump makes off the cuff comments is bogus. The guy is actually extremely calculated in what he says, and so, this whole idea that what he said was totally off the cuff is just complete nonsense. I mean, he said it deliberately to take a shot at McCain --

EPSHTEYN: And you know that how, Liz?

MAIR: I know that because I watched Trump and examined his behavior over many years at this point. I have --

EPSHTEYN: You have never met the person, right?

MAIR: Have you?

EPSHTEYN: Yes.

BROWN: OK. So, Boris --

MAIR: Then you are being duped, dude. You are being duped. The reality is --

EPSHTEYN: I'm absolutely not.

MAIR: I totally, I don't buy that for a minute, Boris, I'm sorry that you are. But I think that's the reality. I scrutinized more opposition research on this guy than probably else out there. I've scrutinized more of his clips, more of his interviews, more of his commentary --

EPSHTEYN: Liz, you are come into with a perspective as the opposition. You just said so yourself. You are coming into it with a opposing perspective. If you were objective, maybe you would look at it the other way.

MAIR: Boris, you are not objective anyway either. That's totally ridiculous.

EPSHTEYN: Why am I not objective? There's nothing I need from the campaign of Donald Trump. I'm supporting him --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: You can see from the panel that the Republican Party is not united. It's clearly illustrated here.

So, Steven Collinson, on that note, Trump says he doesn't need to unite the Republican Party? Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We want to bring the party together. Does the party have to be together? Does it have to be unified? I'm very different than everybody else perhaps that ever has run for office. I actually don't think so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, Stephen, does he have a point here? If he can either appeal to those blue dog Democrats, perhaps Bernie Sanders supporters who are looking for that political revolution, or those supporters who simply stay home.

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Well, Pamela, I think this idea that Donald Trump is going to attract legions of disgruntled Bernie Sanders supporters if Hillary Clinton wins the nomination, that's something good in theory and on paper, but probably will not happen. Most Bernie Sanders supporters said they would get in line and support Hillary Clinton.

The fact is this general election is going to come down to five or six swing states. Donald Trump, even if he brings in all these new voters he says he's going to bring in, he really does need to get a good Republican turnout in states like Virginia, in states like Ohio, in states like Florida. He can't do that unless the Republican Party is united.

And on another aspect, Donald Trump doesn't really have a political organization. The Clinton campaign has been building an organization for over the year, and modeling it on the 2012 and 2008 organization that did such a good job identifying voters and get them to the polls. He needs the Republican Party's grassroots organization, and experts in this election. So, the idea that he can go into a general election with a disunited Republican Party and win I think can probably be disproved.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Liz, go ahead.

MAIR: I think it's important to scrutinize the numbers here and to look at the organization. Because for as much as we talk about Republican organization, the truth is that organization is a grassroots organization. It is not run through a Republican National Committee, which he is now able to take control of. The reality is, when you go and you look at polling, you find that they are up to 40 percent of hard Republican primary voters who are saying they will never under any circumstances vote for this guy, do I think those numbers a little high? Yes. Do I think he still going to have a mathematical problem? Yes, I do.

If he cannot capture something close to 90 percent to 95 percent of Republican voters, given the way the independents are thinking, given the fact that you are going to have a libertarian party candidate probably on the ballot in all 50 states, and a lot of people who are supposed to Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton who are actively looking at that person, he is going to be toast, that's the reality.

EPSHTEYN: Who would that person be?

MAIRS: Boris, you are not done a lot of research about this, have you?

EPSHTEYN: I've done plenty of research.

MAIR: No, you haven't. You are obviously unaware of the fact --

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Liz, listen to Boris.

MAIR: No, you've had lots of time to talk about and you are missing basic facts.

EPSHTEYN: OK, you want to hear some more, go ahead.

BROWN: You have to Liz --

MAIR: Yes, I would like to. I would like other people to hear what I have to say also instead of hearing Donald Trump talking points, which are completely bogus.

EPSHTEYN: These are not talking points. Liz, we have Hillary Clinton likely Democratic nominee, OK, we have Donald Trump as the Republican nominee. Who are you going to back? You're going to back Hillary Clinton?-

MAIR: I am voting for Gary Johnson or an independent nominee.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: This is what we are going to be seeing in the months to come.

EPSHTEYN: Donald Trump has attracted more voters than any other Republican primary.

BROWN: All right. Boris Epshteyn, Ben Ferguson --

MAIR: They are not Republicans. They are conservatives.

EPSHTEYN: They're going to be voting in the general election.

(CROSSTALK)

[18:10:07] BROWN: All right. Wow.

Well, now, the Democrats and the Bernie Sanders is still in the race, still fighting for what he calls every single vote. Sanders is right now in fact holding a campaign rally on the campus of Rutgers University on New Jersey, and while he immediate struggle against Hillary Clinton, take a look at this right here, our latest CNN/ORC poll shows that while Clinton would beat Donald Trump by 13 points in a general election matchup, Sanders actually performs a bit better against Trump beating him by 16 points.

CNN's Rachel Crane joins us live from Sanders rally in New Jersey.

And, Rachel, that poll was not lost on Sanders in his speech at Rutgers a few minutes ago, was it?

RACHEL CRANE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, it certainly was not, Pamela. And, in fact, this is a point that Sanders often makes at his rallies, that he performs better against Trump than his opponent Clinton. He made the point this evening. The crowd erupted in applause. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I am happy to tell you that Donald Trump will not become president of the United States.

(CHEERS)

He will not become president of the United States because in every national poll that I have seen and in most state-wide polls, we beat him by double digit numbers. (CHEERS)

And if Democrats wants to have the strongest candidate against Trump, they should look at those polls because in every single one of them we beat Trump by a larger margin than does Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CRANE: Now, Sanders is aware that the math is against him. He pointed out that he only has 45 percent of the delegates currently that he needs 50 to win, and that he is going to try and secure those votes all the way up until the convention.

Now, he'll be back on the campaign trail here in the Garden State tomorrow morning in Atlantic City where he'll be trying to close the gap between him and Clinton. A recent poll shows that Clinton is ahead of him 2 to 1. And, of course, this is all leading up to the primary in New Jersey, which is on June 7th, also another big day of the primaries, and it's the day of the California primary -- Pamela.

BROWN: Certainly a big day in politics. Rachel Crane, thank you so much for that.

Coming up on this Sunday, live in the CNN NEWSROOM, a Canadian wildfire so massive the smokes going all the way to Florida. A live report on the disparate efforts to contain it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have met more heroes in this experience than I ever thought existed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Plus, a CNN exclusive. Jim Sciutto goes aboard a U.S. nuclear submarine on patrol, as tensions with the Russians simmer beneath the surface.

And veepstakes mania. Who will Trump pick as his running mate? Jeanne Moos reports on the question that everybody keeps guessing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I'm anticipating he'll ask me to be vice president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, the wildfire raging in Alberta, Canada, is finally starting to get what firefighters desperately need, and, of course, that's rain. At least a small amount has just fell over that region, an area half the size of Rhode Island has been incinerated and 90,000 people have had to evacuate. A cold front could bring rain tonight with higher humidity replacing

the bone dry air there, and temperatures falling into the 50s. This as an army of firefighters continue to battle the flames. Help is pouring in to take on what the Canadian minister of foreign ministry calls a beast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RALPH GOODALE, CANADIAN PUBLIC SAFETY MINISTER: The country has your back. We are standing with you and we will continue to stand with you every step of the way. This is not a local issue, this is a national issue and all Canadians will share the burden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Let's bring in our Paul Vercammen. He joins us from an evacuation center in Alberta.

Paul, I imagine those first responders battling this fire must be exhausted. It's a good thing they are getting help.

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It sure is. I mean, they need help on all fronts, not only from the relief but also from the weather, it's a little cooler, but you can hear it, the wind has been a big problem and that's what pushed the fire into Fort McMurray and then out of it.

The fire now moving to the east away from the city, but for those evacuees, the people we are talking to here, it was just a harrowing ordeal and imagine what it has been like Pam through a child's eyes. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVAN BEATTIE WILDFIRE EVACUEE: I saw the flames and they were very bad, and, like, the fire, it was made, like, very big, and we saw the smoke downtown and we thought my school was burned down, but it wasn't and we saw the good shepherd school and we thought it was near Prairie Creek, and we think -- we still think it is, it's like, very bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: That young boy also telling me he was concerned because he heard one of his neighbors might have lost a lot of his toys. Now, on another front, these firefighters we eluded to them are going to get relief. We understand more firefighters are coming to in from Quebec and New Brunswick, some firefighters are already here from Ontario. There are some 1,500 on the lines and they are battling not just one but some 40 places across very windy Alberta.

Back to you now, Pam.

BROWN: Paul Vercammen, thank you so much. This is horrific for all those people, the people having to evacuate and the first responders.

And coming up live on this Mother's Day, CNN gets exclusive access to a U.S. nuclear attack submarine on the frontlines of an underwater arms race.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: I am standing on the bridge of the USS Missouri. It's a nuclear attack submarine, a rare visit, one of the most incredible things I have ever done as a reporter. And if you ever wandered what it's like inside underwater, come with us and we're going to give you a view.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:23:11] BROWN: It's a flashback to the Cold War. U.S. and Russian submarine activity reaching levels not seen in decades and in response, the Pentagon is now upping its game to try and have supremacy on the seas, and as CNN exclusive, chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto went aboard the USS Missouri, a U.S. nuclear attack sub and the first-line of defense against Russian submarine movements.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO (voice-over): The USS Missouri Nuclear Attack Submarine sailing to exercises and a deep dive off Florida. The Atlantic is on the front lines of a new Cold War.

We join for an exclusive embark.

SCIUTTO: The USS Missouri is an attack submarine. It could launch torpedoes at other submarines and surface vessels. It could launch missiles at ground targets. It gathers intelligence. It could also deploy Navy SEAL units for special operations. It is the most advanced submarine in the world.

(voice-over): And it is facing the most advanced threats to U.S. submarine forces in decades.

Russia is deploying attack submarines in numbers and with aggressiveness. And advances in technology not seen since the Cold War. And now China, North Korea, Vietnam, India and others are joining a new arms race under the sea.

Commodore Ollie Lewis commands a squadron of ten Atlantic-based subs including the Missouri.

COMMODORE OLLIE LEWIS, COMMANDER, SUBMARINE SQUADRON 12: We were operating places where we didn't have to rely on an adversary being there to challenge us.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Play (ph) it forward.

LEWIS: Now that's changing. We're back to the point now where we have to consider that there's an adversary ready to challenge us in the undersea domain. And that undersea superiority is not guaranteed.

SCIUTTO: New threats require a new state of readiness. Which we witnessed at every turn. [18:25:00] Missouri's 135 crew repeatedly trained for anti-submarine

warfare.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Fire. Tube two.

SCIUTTO: They simulate firing torpedoes and cruise missiles from depth towards targets on sea and land.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Torpedo course 3-3-7. Unit running, wire good.

SCIUTTO: And they're constantly testing the sub's enormous speed and maneuverability.

(on camera): So we're in the midst of another steep ascent. You're hearing that alarm as we approach 20 degrees. We're going to get to a 25 degree angle. Keep in mind, I'm standing up straight now, but as I'm leaning forward, that's keeping me vertical in relation to the ground as the angle ascend gets sharper.

(voice-over): These are just exercises, but the Missouri -- the "Mighty Mo" to its crew -- has repeatedly come nose-to-nose with real- world threats.

When Russia annexed Crimea, and launched military action in Syria, the Missouri was deployed nearby. And when a Russian sub turned up off the coast of Florida in 2012, it was the USS Missouri called into action to track it.

(on camera): That's a showing, hey, showing where they can go.

COMMANDER FRASER HUDSON, USS MISSOURI: Honestly, I think it's operational experience. If anything were to ever happen, they have experience. They know those waters. I don't think it's a political statement on their part at all.

SCIUTTO: The Missouri's greatest asset may be its silence -- invisible to satellites, virtually inaudible to other ships and subs.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Dive, dive.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): Giving the U.S. the element of surprise.

HUDSON: Whether there is a submarine there or not, they don't know. A potential adversary has to take that into their calculus when they make decisions to do bad things.

SCIUTTO: And so, underwater is where these boats and their crews spend 90 percent of their time deployed.

(on camera): So USS Missouri is coming into port now, Mayport Naval Station in Jacksonville, Florida. And that's not something -- if you're a submariner -- that you do very often. Their most recent deployment, they were out for 181 days, 163 days were at sea. That is the life of a submariner.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): And that is a call to action the U.S. Navy's 70 submarines are getting more and more often.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Incredible report from our Jim Sciutto. Thank you so much for that. And let's talk it over with the national security editor for TheBlaze.com, Buck Sexton.

Buck, incredible report there. We heard that the USS Missouri commanding officer said he does not believe the Russia submarines are a political statement. That it's just Russia showing off its operational capacity. Do you agree, how do you see it?

BUCK SEXTON, NATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR, THEBLAZE.COM: I think it's a combination. I think the Russians are constantly testing their military capabilities, vis-a-vis the other advanced militaries, obviously, also at the top of the list. And I think that every time they have an opportunity, every time Vladimir Putin has an opportunity to flex those muscles publicly, whether it's by buzzing U.S. warships with Russian planes or by doing provocative things with any ship in the Russian fleet or submarines, those are the kinds of things that look good for Putin back at home, and also added benefit of expanding the operational knowledge of all different Russian services.

So, I think that it works for them on both sides and I do think Russia feels more and more like they can use the different aspects of their military apparatus to achieve foreign policy goals, both in a sort of Russian near, Russian periphery, as well as a near abroad, without massive military intervention.

We have seen this in Syria. We have seen this with the seizure of Crimea, we see this as an issue in Ukraine. So, a more nimble, more effective, more lethal Russian military, that's sort of more pinpoint in its accuracy is something they are trying to build up and that's the capability they are trying to ramp up for future operations.

BROWN: And how concerning is that for the U.S.?

SEXTON: Well, it's concerning in so far as they are willing to do some things in some places that absent a strong hand to counter them they will get away with it. We have seen them seized Crimea. We've seen as I mentioned, Russian operational activity in Eastern Ukraine, it was Russian support to those rebels that then led to a downing of a civilian airline that killed hundreds of people. I mean, there have been some very severe and horrific consequences because of Russian military actions, not to mention the humanitarian disaster that has been added to in Syria by Russian actions in and around Aleppo.

There were tens of thousands of people who have fled Aleppo knowing that Russia was working hand and glove with the Assad regime, to try to help take back that city. And it's because they use very -- well, their rules of engagement are much looser than the U.S. campaign, and so because Russia essentially determines what its foreign policy is, and in this case, what Putin and the Kremlin determine what is the policy in any given area, and they go for it without really much heed to the international community or what people say about it, they do have an effectiveness there. I mean, they do have the ability to get away with a lot and the U.S. doesn't want to directly counter them.

BROWN: So how does the U.S., the U.S. Navy in particularly, maintain the supremacy on the seas?

[18:30:00] What else do we need to do?

SEXTON: Well, certainly there are some who will point to the size, the current size of the U.S. Navy as being historically small compared to what it was in the post World War II era. Now part of that debate, part of that argument is that it's really hard to compare, say, a World War II era battleship with the current capabilities of a U.S. aircraft carrier. An aircraft carrier are certainly the gems, the sort of crown jewels of the U.S. fleet.

But there are also ways that they can be hit and our adversaries -- adversaries that perhaps are looking further into the future are trying to work on the kinds of munitions that would specifically counter the U.S. aircraft fleet. There are long range missiles that are considered carrier killers or trying to become carrier killers, which create a greater standoff from, for example, mainland China or other areas that they could be deployed. That makes it more difficult for us.

And submarines obviously, Russian submarines also have that same possibility, that same capability of being carrier killers. So they're trying to find ways to, without necessarily going pound-for- pound, punch-for-punch with the U.S. Navy, be able to counter the U.S. Navy's capabilities around the world and in all the different seas.

BROWN: Buck Sexton, thanks so much for that.

SEXTON: Thank you.

BROWN: And another nuclear threat, North Korea's Kim Jong-Un is insisting his country would use nuclear weapons if provoked. But around the world there's growing concern about new satellite images which appeared to show activity around a North Korean nuclear test site.

CNN's Will Ripley is in Pyongyang with our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Here in the North Korean capital, news coverage is dominated by the Seventh Workers' Party Congress. Earlier state TV broke in for a three-hour speech from Supreme Leader Kim Jong-Un. Among other things, he talked about North Korea's nuclear arsenal, saying his country would only use nuclear weapons if they are provoked. But around the world there's growing concern about new satellite images that appear to show activity at a North Korean nuclear test site.

The U.S. think tank 38 North says what they're seeing in these images could be consistent with preparations for another nuclear test like the one that North Korea conducted in January when they said they detonated an H-bomb. Since then there's been a satellite launch and just last month four attempted missile launches, all leading up to the Seventh Workers' Party Congress, a very important time politically for the North Korean leader, and so the timing conducting a nuclear test around this Congress at a time when there is international media inside Pyongyang, well, it could make sense if this country is trying to make a big impression on the world.

Will Ripley, CNN, Pyongyang.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And thank you to our Will Ripley.

Meantime, Donald Trump defeated more than a dozen contenders for the Republican nomination, but in the general election he'll have a new nemesis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is surprising, you've got a room full of reporters, celebrities, cameras, and he says no. Is this dinner too tacky for the Donald? What could he possibly be doing instead? Is he at home eating a Trump steak, tweeting out insults to Angela Merkel?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Those jokes might be just a preview of how he will attack Trump this fall. We'll talk about it right after the break. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[18:36:22] OBAMA: I just want to emphasize the degree to which we are in serious times and this is a really serious job. This is not entertainment. This is not a reality show.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: It's not a reality show, but the president could have a starring role anyway. The White House says President Obama will, quote, "be out there quite a bit," campaigning for the Democratic nominee. So could he make the difference in a close election?

Let's talk about it with CNN's Stephen Collinson.

Stephen, how important is the president in this race?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER: I think the president's approval rate is very important for the Democratic nominee simply because whoever that is, Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders, is trying to pull off a historically very difficult feat, and that's winning the White House for a third consecutive term for their party so if the president is about 51 percent as he is now, that really helps the Democratic nominee. If he was down at 42 percent or 41 percent as he has been at sometimes during his presidency, it would make it much more difficult to make case that a Democrat should win the White House.

And I think what's also important is that President Obama is very, very popular still among Democrats, and I think that gives him a role once this divisive primary between Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders wraps up. And bring in the party together, and uniting the party, and to get out on the campaign trail and tell Democrats why, for example, they should vote for the nominee, if it's Hillary Clinton especially.

BROWN: And Hillary Clinton, by the way, said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I told my husband he's got to come out of retirement and be in charge of this because, you know, he's got more ideas a minute than anybody I know. You got to put people back to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So for the Dems, you have two presidents who could campaign for their party. For the Republicans on the other hand, you have former presidents and nominees who want nothing to do with Trump. Will that matter?

COLLINSON: Well, I think Bill Clinton obviously we know what a good campaigner he is. He played a very big role in the Obama reelection campaign in 2012, and I think helped move a needle for President Obama. For Donald Trump, inasmuch as it shows the Republican Party is this united, that these big former, you know, presidents and nominees and big party figures are not coming out to campaign for him, I think that's a disadvantage but it may actually not affect Donald Trump as much as it would have a more conventional politician.

The DNA of the Donald Trump campaign is that he's this outsider, this anti-elite, anti-establishment campaign, and so even if he had been embraced by the grandees of the party, I think it would be questionable just how much he would use them simply because they -- they don't seem to gel with the message that is at the root of his campaign, Pamela.

BROWN: Yes. There's certainly a divide there in the Republican Party.

For President Obama, if he goes on the campaign trail on behalf of the Democratic nominee, to what extent is that about protecting his own legacy and his number one achievement of course Obamacare is surely in jeopardy if Donald Trump were reelected -- or were elected, I should say?

COLLINSON: Sure. I mean, the president has an ulterior motive in this. There's so much of his legacy that could be undone by a Republican president whoever it is. You mentioned Obamacare, for example, which has -- you know, he's been fighting for the last six years to preserve Obamacare. And this is just the latest example of that. His legacy on climate change and global warming measures could also be a risk under a Republican president.

It would take the stroke of a pen for a Republican president to strike away those executive orders on immigration that the president passed last year, so it really does matter for the president to have a Democrat succeed him and I think there's a historical irony here in many ways. You know, President Obama campaigned in 2008 against Hillary Clinton.

[18:40:03] He wasn't too complimentary about the legacy of Bill Clinton during that campaign, yet he's relying on his former rival to secure his own legacy when he no longer has the political power to do it himself. So it's a very interesting twist.

BROWN: And could there be risks for the Democratic nominee if President Obama campaigns for them if, say, the economy tanked or there was another terrorists attack in the U.S.? Could that hurt the Democrats?

COLLINSON: Sure, anything that hurts the president's approval rating and perception that is he in charge and is doing a good job will be a very bad occurrence for the Democratic nominee. We just have to look back to 2008. The election between Barack Obama and John of McCain was fairly close until the worst of the economic crisis struck and sort of August and September of that year. It made it much more difficult for John McCain to make the case that he would be a safe pair of hands and the Republicans could do a good job and that he would be the best person to take over the economy and the Obama campaign really capitalized on that. So it's going to be a nervous few months definitely for the White House and whoever the Democratic nominee becomes.

BROWN: And certainly an interesting few months ahead of us.

Stephen Collinson, thank you so much.

And you can read more of Stephen's article at CNNpolitics.com.

And coming up, live in the CNN NEWSROOM on this Mother's Day, an exclusive interview with the billionaire Trump supporter who insists to skirmish between the presumptive Republican nominee and House Speaker Paul Ryan is all just part of art of the deal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM BARRACK, REAL ESTATE INVESTOR: It's like going to a dog park and you have two gigantic pit bulls and one fire hydrant. And the way they start the conversation is they both walk up to the fire hydrant and give it a little bit of their own.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:45:18] BROWN: Well, Donald Trump boasts that his net worth is more than $10 billion, and according to his tax plan the wealthiest people will get a tax break, but today he says he actually wouldn't mind paying higher taxes so is Trump changing his position?

Here's what he said this morning on ABC's "This Week."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't mind paying more tax, I have done well over the last few years.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: But under your plan you pay less taxes.

TRUMP: But under my plan it's going to be negotiating. What I'm saying is, I will be submitting something like what I did in terms of concept, because it's just a concept. We're are putting in a new policy, we're putting in a statement. It's concept. And I'll tell you what the real concept is. Lower taxes for business, lower taxes for the middle class, lower taxes for everybody and then we're going to start negotiating. So if I want to get lower taxes, which is very important to me, I'm not going to put in high taxes and I'm not even going to put what I necessarily want. I'm going to put in lower than I want and we're going to negotiate --

STEPHANOPOULOS: But in the end will someone like me or Donald Trump pay more under your tax plan?

TRUMP: I have a feeling we may pay some more. But I'll tell you, the middle class is going to pay a lot less. And I wouldn't mind paying more, George. We got to do something. I mean, I wouldn't mind paying more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So Donald Trump is not necessarily making a lot of friends on Wall Street but at least one billionaire investor in standing behind him. And that's longtime Republican Tom Barrack. House Speaker Paul Ryan doesn't share Barrack's enthusiasm for Trump. But Barrack says this is just part of the world of high stakes negotiating. And he spoke exclusively with CNN's Cristina Alesci.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Paul Ryan said he's not there yet on Trump. He's not ready to endorse him. Donald Trump didn't build a consensus there. He didn't open the door for a negotiation. He said, I'm not ready to support Paul Ryan's agenda. How should we read that?

BARRACK: I would read it as two very good negotiators setting a predicate for a conversation that's going to happen and it's untimely for that conversation to happen now. Donald Trump is not the candidate today, Paul Ryan needs not be there for him today, and there will be a moment, perhaps, when the two of them need to find a common ground, a common denominator to come to closure with each other and that will be in negotiation, that will be a deal like every element of politics is.

ALESCI: Why isn't it advantageous for both Paul Ryan and Donald Trump to start at least talking now?

BARRACK: So it's like going to a dog park and you have two gigantic pit bulls and one fire hydrant, and the way they start the conversation is they both walk up to the fire hydrant and give it a little bit of their own. And then they walk away. And a few minutes later they start nuzzling with each other.

This is just an opener in my belief. Of course they are going to have a dialogue, but they are laying the predicate for the format in which they'll have a dialogue, which is that neither needs either. To me this is the message, just looking at what's happening, the message is, it's a softening, saying we're going to have a conversation, but neither of us really need each other, so it better come from, what you have been talking about, consensus and thoughtfulness and the things that I think that they'll find, but it's just not the time yet, it's just a little bit of patience allowing the system to profit. Right?

We still don't need to have a convention until the middle of July. California is June 7th through 8th, so there's plenty of time for them to have the dialogue because it's not really an action -- it doesn't matter whether Paul Ryan supports him today or not. It doesn't really matter to Paul Ryan or it doesn't really matter to Mr. Trump. It will later.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And thank you to our Cristina Alesci for that reporting.

Coming up live in the CNN NEWSROOM, Jeanne Moos on the hottest guessing game in politics. Who will Donald Trump pick as his running mate? But first, remember this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), FORMER FLORIDA GOVERNOR: I don't think Trump is going to win the nomination.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I don't think we'll end up sort of nominating a celebrity, you know, reality TV star.