Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
DOJ Will Respond to Carolina's Lawsuit Over The State's So- Called Bathroom Law; Hispanics Rushing Out To Register To Vote Against Donald Trump; Delrish Moss is the New Police Chief in Ferguson, Missouri. Aired 3:30-4p ET
Aired May 09, 2016 - 15:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:31:01] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Any moment now here now at the department of justice will respond directly, live pictures of DOJ, respond directly to North Carolina's lawsuit over the state's so-called bathroom law. Filing its own counter lawsuit against the state of North Carolina. The DOJ gave the state until today to suspend or repeal the law that limits bathroom access for transgendered people. But the governor of the state of North Carolina, Pat McCrory is defending the law. Speaking out moments ago, the governor demanded a federal court clarify anti-discrimination laws.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. PAT MCCRORY (R), NORTH CAROLINA: We believe a court, rather than a federal agency, should tell our state, our nation and employers across the country what the law requires. And let me say something. Our nation is one nation especially when it comes to fighting discrimination which I support wholeheartedly. Ultimately, I think it's time for the U.S. Congress to bring clarity to our national anti- discrimination provisions under title VII and title IX.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: The governor is also appealing for support of other states. You see the numbers here. This is a CNN/ORC poll suggesting there is an uphill battle, 57 percent of people nationwide oppose the law, 38 percent say they support it.
So joining me now Gloria Browne-Marshall. She is an associate professor of constitutional law to the University of New York's John Jay College of criminal justice. She is also a former civil rights attorney.
So, good to see you.
GLORIA BROWNE-MARSHALL, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: Nice to see you.
BALDWIN: There is a lot of this back and forth, back and forth. North Carolina say that the DOJ about to respond. I have just been printed in the hot hands here. This is the lawsuit from the DOJ that we are about to hear about presumably from Loretta Lynch herself when she steps in front of reporters there in Washington.
But to you first. What do you make of North Carolina's response?
BROWNE-MARSHALL: I think North Carolina's trying to buy time. Basically they are trying to figure it out. I mean, if you take the governor of his words, he is saying that he doesn't understand how this is going to affect his government, his facilities and his government and nor the businesses and other private owners who have to decide how they are going to handle the bathroom. We're talking about a very basic thing, all human beings have to do.
But we are also having to balance out the privacy and security, the safety of those transgendered people with the privacy, security and safety of the women who are in those bathrooms.
BALDWIN: Is this an unprecedented law? I mean, is this like a first of its kind there in North Carolina?
BROWNE-MARSHALL: I think it's the first in North Carolina, but I'll tell you something. Here's something similar that happened in New York, especially upstate New York. You had fathers with little girls without a place to change them. So the closest I can think of is when you have to think, OK, do I take a little girl into the men's room or do I take myself, a male, the father, into the women's room to change this little girl? And so, the issue was one that they said it was equality for men that they should be allowed to have a changing room and now you see changing rooms all over the place.
BALDWIN: All over the place.
BROWNE-MARSHALL: And you don't even think about that how that came about.
BALDWIN: Let's take a quick commercial break. Again, we are watching, waiting to hear the respond under this lawsuit. It is now officially filed from the DOJ back to the state of North Carolina over the so-called discriminatory bathroom law.
Quick break. We're back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:33:44] BALDWIN: Back to our breaking news here. Department of Justice, you see that podium, we are watching and waiting to see the attorney general Loretta Lynch address specifically this law in North Carolina. So the crux of this is basically the DOJ gave the state of North Carolina until today, this is the deadline to either suspend or repeal the law that would limit bathroom access for folks who are transgendered in the state of North Carolina.
We have heard from the governor of North Carolina today. He is defending the law. And so, now we know that the department of justice has filed action to the suit that the state of North Carolina has filed. If you're with me.
I'm lucky to have Gloria Browne-Marshall with me, constitutional professor at John Jay.
And so, we are talking about as we anticipate Loretta Lynch to speak, so the issue was the DOJ said once this law was passed in North Carolina you have to -- this is not OK, essentially. And North Carolina said, yes, it is OK. We are defending what we believe the rights of the people of our great state. Are you -- what is it now in this lawsuit and we have had two seconds to look through it, what is it that the DOJ will say?
BROWNE-MARSHALL: The DOJ will say, you have the University of North Carolina that university receives federal funds. You cannot discriminate when you receive federal funds. You need to stop discriminating against transgendered people or we will stop you federal funding. And of course, any state college is dependent upon those federal funds.
[15:40:11] BALDWIN: A big deal.
BROWNE-MARSHALL: That's a very big deal. It's how we have got them to change what it came down to women's sports. Now, we got them to stop discriminating against people of color, you know. So that's a stick is a heavy hitter. And so, North Carolina then is responding by saying, well, let us think this over. We have this law. We have this for a reason and we have this federalism issue with the balance of power between the states and the federal government. And she will be as the federal government respect the state or should the states say we know our people best and therefore we need to continue to, you know, separate the people and they go to the restrooms based on their birth gender.
BALDWIN: Is there any -- I mean, seems like there's so much gray area but is there any negotiating or just sort of hard and fast and this is how North Carolina feels. This is what the DOJ is now saying and it is either one or the other?
BROWNE-MARSHALL: I think there are two or three different ways to go. One, you can look at the unisex restrooms and those unisex restrooms popping up all over. That's a place that has being used as the changing room, because the changing room is also in the lawsuit that federal government have filed against North Carolina that they should have changing rooms that are based on the gender of identification and not just the gender of birth. So, you can have that changing room be a room for unisex, you know, use.
You could also say that, you know, North Carolina will give you a certain amount of time, maybe you need a year to retro fit some of these facilities that right now you don't have a place for, you know, a unisex restroom.
The last would basically be trying to figure out how you're going to separate the men going into the women's restroom. I think that's a major issue and the phase in the transgender process the person funds themselves. Might be very frightening to a mother with a little girl in the women's restroom and walks someone who self identifies as or identifies as a gendered female but looks like a male. BALDWIN: Stay with me. They're about 12 minutes late. We are going
to go to the department of justice as soon the AG steps out there, Loretta Lynch. So hang tight. We are going to move on for now.
Back to politics here. Thank you. With Donald Trump now at the top of the Republican ticket, as the presumptive nominee and new report shows Hispanics are rushing out to register to vote against him. And they are also lining up to apply for citizenship. If you picked up the "Houston Chronicle" this morning, a lot of reports average monthly citizenship applications jumped nationwide to about 65,000 people between August and January. You do the math. That is about a 15 percent spike. Trump after all kicked off his campaign last summer by angering a lot of Latinos when he called some Mexican immigrants rapists and drug dealers. He has also threatened to deport all illegal immigrants. Mr. Trump has definitely managed to frustrate a lot of people, but not my next guest.
Carlos Limon is a Mexican-American who supports Donald Trump for president and is an adviser to Trump's national diversity coalition.
Carlos, welcome.
CARLOS LIMON, ADVISER, NATIONAL DIVERSITY COALITION FOR TRUMP: Hi, Brooke. Thank you for having me.
BALDWIN: You just saw the numbers in the "Houston Chronicle" this morning. You know, the anger generated by your candidate. They want to vote against him. They want citizenship. How do you respond to that?
LIMON: Definitely. I'm Mexican, born and raised. I read the article this morning. And just like them, I mean, they have the right to do what's best. But I think Mr. Trump and them are being victims of the Hispanic media. Mexican media, this comes from Mexico. It is a lot of manipulating information. Mr. Trump, I met him a couple of weeks ago, and he's not the things that people say.
BALDWIN: Hold on. Are you saying they manipulated the numbers in the "Houston Chronicle" article are manipulated? Because that is pretty solid paper, let me just stand up for them.
LIMON: Yes, that's true. We re Hispanics and we are very emotional since the very beginning. When I was sitting on my couch watching Mr. Trump say his ideas in his campaign, it didn't offend me. I knew exactly, you know, it took a very little common sense to figure out he doesn't believe all of us Mexicans are criminals, are rapists. But the media, the media especially Mexican Hispanic media here and in Mexico, they have a very, you know, it's very easy for them to play with those feelings, emotions. And to put just like them, they are a group and I know, you know, what you just report, there's a lot of groups who are also registering to vote for him. Like us, the national diversity coalition for Trump, there's a very nice, is a very beautiful thing. Good group of people, different backgrounds, different ethnicities.
BALDWIN: OK, OK, OK, OK. I'm kind of over people throwing the media under the bus whether it's the American media or the Mexican media. And I don't know if all Hispanics would agree with you in thinking that they're emotional. And who, let's move on.
John McCain, man who has been in the Senate for a very, very long time. He spoke out recently. He was talking to my colleague, Manu Raju, about how he is nervous with Trump at the top of the ticket because there's so many Hispanics in the state of Arizona, his home state. He is worried about his own reelection chances. Here he was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[15:45:21] SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think that it's important that we understand the importance of the Hispanic vote in America. Many states, they grow -- in Arizona, more than 50 percent of the kids in school are Hispanic. After the 2012 election, as you know, we laid out a blueprint and part of it was outreach to the Hispanic community. I think we all recognize that the Republican Party has to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So, Carlos, I mean, this is someone when's been in Washington a long time, a nation's hero, a prisoner of war.
LIMON: Yes.
BALDWIN: And to think that he is worried about the reelection because of Trump and because of Hispanics who are running away from him, how would you respond to that?
LIMON: Wow. Well, you know, I cannot compare my knowledge or my experience as Mr. McCain. I know he is concern. It's a very delicate situation. I just try to bring the big picture into the smaller one. And I just say, you know, it comes down to self-accountable. I just cannot position myself in a situation that is going to jeopardize my kids. But at the end of the day, the law is just common sense. You got to respect the law.
BALDWIN: OK. Before I let you go, Carlos, I want to throw up a photo on the screen. This is something that happened last week but it's been everywhere over the weekend. I think it's still sort of in the bloodstream. This is when Mr. Trump tweeted the picture of him eating out of a taco bull, you know, on Cinco de Mayo. Tweeted that he loves Hispanics. You know, I have to ask as a Hispanic Trump supporter, would you have advised him to do this?
LIMON: Well, the way I see it, he is just a guy who is having a taco bowl. He is marketing, you know, Trump's grill. It didn't offend me. All of my friends, you know, having margaritas that night and having tacos saying to me it is happy Cinco de Mayo. They might not even know what they mean. It doesn't mean much to me. I don't think just -- we just live in a time where you have to be very careful because you have, you know, the ability to offend the person next to you by doing anything. But it doesn't mean anything to me.
I'm a business owner. I have a couple of clients who are former employees from Mr. Trump, both Hispanics, and they never had anything wrong to say about him. He was a great boss. He's just dealing to -- he's used to deal with lot of people from different nationalities.
BALDWIN: OK, OK, Carlos Limon, thank you so much. Your perspective is important as a Hispanic and someone who supports Donald Trump. Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
LIMON: Thank you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: And just a quick reminder, we are watching, just couple of minutes actually this, the city of Ferguson, Missouri, will swear in a new full time police chief. This is the first black police chief there after months of racial unrest that followed the fatal police shooting of Michael Brown. CNN just sat down with this man. He says he is ready to clean house if needed. We'll play that for you coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:52:15] BALDWIN: The city of Ferguson, Missouri, the flashpoint of civil unrest after the police killing of unarmed teenager Michael Brown, the city will swear in a new police chief today, the first African-American chief by the name of Delrish Moss. Live pictures as they're getting ready to begin the official ceremony minutes from now.
Moss, who rose to the rank of major in Miami's police force, has his work cut out for him. He will have to heal a fractured community. He will have to navigate a mostly white police department in charge of a majority black city. He must reform a troubled agency all under the watchful eye of the department of justice.
And CNN's Sara Sidner sat down for a one-on-one interview with the new chief. She joins me live on his thoughts and what he has ahead of him.
Sara, I know you were there covering Ferguson from the get. What did he say to you?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He is a very interesting person because of his background. Delrish Moss is now taking over what is really one of the most scrutinized police departments in America. You alluded to the fact the department of justice is watching its every move so, is the community watching its very move. And now, he is the head of that, the very first African-American to take the helm. He sworn in as chief. But he says he is uniquely qualified because of his past experiences as a black man in America with police, one of which included him as a teenager when a policeman stopped him, called him the "n" word, another time a policeman stopped and searched him with no probable cause.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: It's interesting that your initial experience was a negative one.
DELRISH MOSS, NEW FERGUSON, MISSOURI POLICE CHIEF: Yes.
SIDNER: But instead of hating the police, you became a police officer.
MOSS: Yes, well, I have a grandmother who says you can't clean the house unless you're inside. And so, I decided that if I wanted something done, if I wanted change my neighborhood, I had to be a part of it. And so, I decided to become a police officer because I couldn't trust my neighborhood, my friends, my family to the police officers that I had met. I needed to be the person providing that service.
SIDNER: Will you have the strength to clean house if that's what's needed here in Ferguson?
MOSS: I think so. I think one of the things that happens is I come from another community. I have no ties, really have no connection to the police department here. And so, you know, it's about the mission. And there is really nothing clouding my agenda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SIDNER: Now, Delrish Moss was just about to retire, actually, from the Miami police department. He has been through riots there in the '80s. There were several of them that he experienced as a young person and then also as a police officer. He says that also makes him qualified to try to take on a city that has gone through the same kinds of things.
And lastly, and really interestingly, I asked him about Michael Brown, had he gone to the spot where Michael Brown was killed, the place that started all this, Brooke, and he said, yes, I went there, and I want to be able to sit down with his parent to hear their side of the story - Brooke.
[15:55:13] BALDWIN: It is powerful. I'm so glad you talked to him. We'll look for more on your interview on "the LEAD" in the next hour.
Sara Sidner, thank you so much in Ferguson, Missouri.
And just a heads up, we are still watching and waiting for the department of justice news conference to happen any moment now. Should be hearing from the A.G., from Loretta Lynch herself, responding to the law in North Carolina regarding folks who are transgendered who want to use their appropriate restroom. The governor has defended the law. We are watching and waiting for the DOJ to respond with a lawsuit they have now filed. Stay here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:59:57] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to "The LEAD." I'm Jake Tapper. It is a heated showdown. The Obama administration versus the government of North Carolina.
