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Trump to Meet with Senate GOP Leaders; Carson Speaks Out on Former Rival Trump; Trump Under Fire For Remarks About Renegotiating U.S. Debt; Trump Targets Sanders Voters in Fight Against Clinton. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired May 9, 2016 - 19:00   ET


[19:00:10] ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, Donald Trump and Paul Ryan head-to-head. Did Ryan blink first? Ben Carson who is working with the Trump campaign is my guest OUTFRONT.

Plus, Trump bragging, he's the king of debt. Is that actually a good thing? And payback time, Trump is saying his attacks on Hillary Clinton over her husband's sex scandals are, quote, "retribution." Let's go OUTFRONT.

And good evening to all. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, Donald Trump now set to meet with top Senate Republicans on Thursday, the same day he is set to meet with House Speaker Paul Ryan. Ryan today making a big statement promising he'll step down, completely step aside as chairman of the Republican convention if that's what Trump wants. The offer coming after Ryan triggered a political earthquake, declaring that he's not ready to support Trump's nomination. Now, also late today, another crucial development.

Marco Rubio addressing VP rumors for the first time, saying he has no interest in the job. More on that in a moment. Trump, though, did pick up a big endorsement from a Republican heavyweight today. You see him there, the governor of Iowa, Terry Branstad, said the American people are willing to look at someone who is quote, "different and unconventional," he is of course the longest-serving governor in the country.

Dana Bash is OUTFRONT tonight. And Dana, this meeting, obviously, is going to be crucial. This is now Trump and Paul Ryan and also leaders of the Senate GOP.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right. And unlike the House Speaker on the Senate side, the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, he announced last week he would support Trump as the party's nominee. But he also said he expected Trump to make moves to unite the party, which no doubt that will be part of the discussion that all of them have in private with Donald Trump. But the difference between McConnell and Ryan really does illustrate the difference within the Republican Party. It's exhibit A of the differences that run very deep.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BASH (voice-over): As the grand 'ole party turns in turmoil, Donald Trump is reminding Republican naysayers of this stark reality. GOP voters chose him for a reason.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have people that I'm representing. They're unbelievable people. They're loyal, they're smart, their sharp. They're tired of being abused.

BASH: And some establishment Republicans are getting on board. Today Terry Branstad of Iowa. The longest serving governor in U.S. history.

GOV. TERRY BRANSTAD (R), IOWA: He's going to be the nominee of our party and I'm a team player and I'm going to support him.

BASH: And even House Speaker Paul Ryan, who detonated a political bomb on CNN by withholding support for Trump. Now looks like he's trying to cool things off ahead of a critical meeting with Trump later this week. Ryan told a paper back home, the man deserves a ton of credit for an amazing achievement. At the same time, we want to make sure we don't pretend we're unified and then go into the fall at half strength. And after Trump suggested he may ask Ryan to step aside as chair of the Republican convention, Ryan said he would be happy to oblige. But today on CNN's "NEW DAY," Trump also seemed to try to lay the ground work for a successful meeting with Ryan.

TRUMP: He was very supportive and very nice and I thought everything was fine. And then I got blindsided, so we'll see.

BASH: Other high-profile Republicans, however, are digging into the GOP divide. Trump supporter, Sarah Palin told CNN she'll even work to help defeat Ryan in his Republican primary.

SARAH PALIN, FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Paul Ryan and his ilk, their problem is they have become so disconnected from the people whom they are elected to represent.

BASH: And the four of the last five Republican presidential picks are skipping the convention slated to nominate Trump. John McCain said he may not be going but told CNN's Manu Raju he is with Trump, he is facing a top re-election bid in Arizona and has to be careful not to anger GOP voters there.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: You have to listen to people that have chosen the nominee of our Republican Party. I don't think he would be foolish to ignore them.

BASH: And that puts McCain at rare odds with his long-time political and policy soulmate, Lindsey Graham.

(on camera): Are you the one out of step here with your party?

MCCAIN: Could be. I would have supported all 16 except for the Donald. The Republican Party has been kind here and this guy is not a reliable conservative Republican.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BASH: Now, on that question, Erin, of whether or not Paul Ryan is going to have a real primary race on the right, something Sarah Palin is now encouraging, he -- Ryan went on Wisconsin conservative radio today and he said he's not worried about it. He said I don't worry about outside agitation, because people in Wisconsin know me. He said and it is true. I will say that unlike a lot of members of Congress, Paul Ryan does go home every week into Wisconsin. His family is there.


[19:05:11] BASH: But he also said something interesting that we've heard from others. In fact, I just got off the phone with the Senate Republican source saying the same thing, which is, what we really want to look forward to, and find out about later this week, when meeting are going to go on here in Washington, is the get to know you part of it. Because remember, Donald Trump is an outsider. And unlike past nominees, these Congressional leaders genuinely don't know him, other than for the most part what they see on the TV screen.

BURNETT: And they are going to be fascinated to meet him and make their own impression. As you point out. For many, the first face-to- face opportunity they will have. Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill for us right now.

And Manu, Congress back in session and obviously this is the first time they have been back in session since Trump became the presumptive nominee. Obviously, everybody today where you are, talking about Donald Trump.

MANU RAJU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And really a cross- section of Republicans. And really, there's a deep unease among some that Donald Trump is the nominee. There are number of senators who say, you know, I'll support the nominee, but I'm actually going to worry about my own Senate race. Something like Johnny Isakson of Georgia said to me earlier, also Richard Burr -- sorry, Roy Blunt of Missouri said I'll worry about my Missouri Senate race. But there are a handful of folks who actually are willing to embrace him and support him. Some folks, however, are walking away from it, including Marco Rubio. I'll read a statement that he put out to address the rumors that he would be considered as a vice presidential candidate.

Said that while voters may have chosen Donald Trump, my previously stated reservations about his campaign and concerns with many of his policies remain unchanged. He'll be best served by a running mate and by surrogates who fully embrace his campaign. And I think, Erin, that is really the key aspect. Who will fully embrace his campaign. Right now there are some folks on the Capitol Hill that are doing that. And I mentioned Richard Burr of North Carolina. He has won. Jeff Sessions is another. But Marco Rubio clearly is not, as well as a number of other Senate Republicans.

BURNETT: All right. Manu, thank you very much. Appreciate it. And Manu, as we said, on Capitol Hill tonight.

OUTFRONT now, one of Trump's former GOP rivals now serving on his Vice Presidential search Committee Ben Carson. And Ben, you just heard Marco Rubio say, his concerns of many of Trumps policies remain unchanged and as a result will not be Trump's VP. You are on the VP search committee. Was Marco Rubio under serious consideration?

DR. BEN CARSON (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I don't know that it serves any useful purpose to talk about who is under serious consideration. But the important thing is that you have somebody who fully upholds the U.S. constitution, and somebody who is in sync with Donald Trump's philosophy. Somebody who is strong on national defense. Somebody who is strong on borders. Somebody who understands the financial underpinnings of this nation. And is fiscally conservative and wants to get us back on track. Those are important things now, there are a lot of peripheral issues, obviously. And no one is going to agree on 100 percent of things.


CARSON: But, you know, we would like to consider, you know, people who believe in those things.

BURNETT: Now, of course Dr. Carson, some will say Donald Trump's pension for borrowing, that he's been very open about would fly in the face of fiscal conservatism as one point there, financial conservatism. But, you know, you know, Doctor, you've become the face of Trump's vice presidential search and according to Politico there is a lack of interest from a lot of people in serving him. You're talking about finding a person who believes in his passion. Politico writes and I wanted to quote it to you exactly. Politico interviewed nearly five dozen Republicans over the past two weeks and heard the same sentiment expressed repeatedly. If Trump doesn't change his tune or extend much longer, all of branches, many of these government veterans say, they intend to cede highly coveted administration posts to less experienced competitors. Of course that would be a major problem for this country if that happened, Doctor. Have you found anything similar in the VP search?

CARSON: There are plenty of very highly qualified people who would gladly do it. And I think Politico has a penchant for, you know, finding the people who reinforce, you know, their agenda.

BURNETT: So you're not having any trouble whatsoever.

CARSON: That's not a problem. It's not going to be a problem in the slightest.

BURNETT: So Doctor, you have said you would personally not serve as Trump's vice president yourself. You're on the committee, but, of course, there is a model in the past. Right. Dick Cheney also was vetting and ended up being the VP. You said you're not going to go with that model. But you have, and it's one of the things I think people really like about you. Been very honest about certain things, including some of your own concerns about Donald Trump. Here is a quick clip of how you put it, just last month.


CARSON: He has some major defects. There's no question about it.


BURNETT: So Dr. Carson, what is it that makes you support Donald Trump, come on TV like you are right now, when you have feelings like that?

[19:10:16] CARSON: Well, you know, everybody has major defects, first of all. And if you play the rest of the clip, would have heard where I said that. But, you know, I am extraordinarily concerned about the future for our children. That is the thing that really has forced me, really, to come out and support this. Because I look at the alternatives, and basically, what we're talking about is a split. We are talking about a group of Americans who believe in traditional American values, who believe in hard work and personal responsibility. And fiscal responsibility and strong military.


CARSON: And we have a group who believes that the government is the solution to everything. This is a gigantic split. And this is probably going to be the most clear-cut election in a very long time.

BURNETT: And so you were asked recently, Doctor, whether you would consider a Democrat for the Vice President position. Trump was asked the very same thing. In fact, you were asked about it moments apart. Here's how he answered the question, and you answered it literally, moments apart.


TRUMP: I would rule them out. I'm going to pick a great Republican and we're going to have a tremendous victory. We're going to win.

CARSON: If there was a Democrat who strongly upheld the constitution, believed in personal responsibility, a hand up rather than a handout fiscal responsibility, and strong military, we'd be willing to talk to them.


BURNETT: So, is a Democrat on the table or not, Doctor?

CARSON: Well, again, as I said, if you would play the rest of the clip, if you know some Democrats like that, please let me know who they are. Because I haven't seen a whole lot of them.

BURNETT: So you just don't believe that those attributes would fit. OK. One question before we go.

CARSON: Well, you have to realize the whole political spectrum has shifted. Significantly. Over the last few decades. Republicans, you know, have shifted over to where Democrats used to be. Democrats have shifted over to where socialists are. So, I mean, there's a big change. That's going on. BURNETT: You have said on this issue of Paul Ryan, obviously, going

to meet with Donald Trump along with leadership in the Senate. You are very quote, "Personally very disappointed that the House Speaker is withholding his support from Trump." You heard today Paul Ryan say, look, if Donald Trump doesn't want me to host his convention chair, I won't -- I'll step aside. Should Paul Ryan step aside?

CARSON: Well, first of all, Donald Trump is very much looking forward to their meeting on Thursday. And I think you are going to find probably a lot more harmony than you think. A lot of the things that have been said, and that have been magnified are not actually the positions. You know, for instance, the minimum wage issue. And people saying there's a flip-flop. Basically, what Donald Trump did is clarify that he does, in fact, sympathize with people making a very low wage, $7.25 an hour. He also knows that that's an entry level wage. That's not meant as a sustaining wage. And if you raise that too high, that you will not be able to get entry level people in, and that hurts particularly young people and particularly young minorities.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Dr. Carson. Dr. Carson, good to talk to you.

CARSON: A pleasure. Thank you.

BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next, Donald Trump says his attacks on Hillary Clinton are payback for what?

Plus, Donald Trump's new target, Bernie Sanders' supporters. Can he win them over? That could win him the White House.

And Trump's controversial plan to restructure all of our debt.


TRUMP: You know, I'm the king of debt. I understand debt probably better than anybody.


BURNETT: The king of debt? That's next.


[19:17:00] BURNETT: Tonight, Donald Trump on defense. The billionaire under fire for these comments to CNBC's "Squawk Box" about how the United States could get out of paying its debt.


TRUMP: But I would borrow, knowing that if the economy crashed, you could make a deal. And if the economy was good, it was good. So therefore, you can't lose. It's like you know, you make a deal before you go into a poker game.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BURNETT: OK. The -- it's really important that he would say these sorts of things. The United States is the most trusted debtor in the world. The biggest. And Trump shifting his stance now on those comments, and other economic plans, as well.

Jim Acosta is OUTFRONT.


JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It appears the great general election pivot is on.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC ANCHOR: Bottom-line, do you want taxes on the wealthy to go up or down?

TRUMP: They will go up a little bit.

ACOSTA: Donald Trump is now revising his stances on a whole host of issues, telling CNN's "NEW DAY," the lower tax rates he first proposed in his economic plan are negotiable.

TRUMP: If I increase the wealthy, that means they're still paying less than they pay now. I'm not talking about increasing from this point. I'm talking about increasing from my tax proposal.

ACOSTA: It's a softening of his conservative positions that first surfaced last week when he told CNN's Wolf Blitzer he was open to raising the minimum wage.

TRUMP: I'm actually looking at that. Because I'm very different from most Republicans. I mean, you have to have something that you can live on.

ACOSTA: Over the weekend, Trump said it was more of a local decision.

TRUMP: I would like to see an increase of some magnitude, but I would rather leave it to the states.

ACOSTA: Either way, a departure from where Trump was last fall on the topic.

TRUMP: I hate to say it, but we have to leave it the way it is.

ACOSTA: Trump is also sharing his ideas for tackling the national debt.

TRUMP: This is the United States government. You never have to default, because you print the money.

ACOSTA: That coming off of these comments to CNBC.

TRUMP: I would borrow, knowing that if the economy crashed, you could make a deal.

ACOSTA: The Clinton campaign is already seizing on Trump's comments in a new video. TRUMP: I would borrow, knowing that if the economy crashed, you could

make a deal.


ACOSTA: Now Donald Trump is hardly the first presidential candidate to pivot or even flip on an important issue. Hillary Clinton once praised the Trans Pacific trade deal as Secretary of State. Now she opposes it. But that is cold comfort to Trump's Republican critics as one operative put it, Trump's comments especially the one on that national debt issue are only surprising, Erin. This operative says if you have not been watching. And obviously, all of us are watching so that's how we know when Donald Trump is changing his position on these issues -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Jim Acosta. And look, it's a shocking comment to say, you know, wait until the economy is beg crushed and crashing, and then do something about it. The former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers for President Obama joins me, along with -- and he's also professor of economics at the University of Chicago. Sorry, Austin. Didn't mean to short change you out to Goolsbee. And business professor at the University of California Irvine Peter Navarro.

So, Peter, let me start with you to make the case here. Donald Trump saying a comment like that. You know, everyone around the world owns America's debt and thank God they do, because that's how this country can borrow and spend the way it does. Every other country would be in deep trouble. We are not. Is Donald Trump really the right guy to manage America's debt?

PETER NAVARRO, BUSINESS PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, IRVINE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Boy, is he ever. And the king of debt really is Barack Obama. And let's set the table here. In 2008, our national debt was about $10 trillion. Now it's close to $20 trillion. And it used to be 67 percent of our GDP. Now it's over 100 percent. At the same time, Erin, as you know, the Federal Reserve's balance sheet has swelled enormously.

BURNETT: OK, all that may be true, but Donald Trump's plans would add so much, make the case, please, why that makes sense.

NAVARRO: Yes. Whoever -- whoever comes in January, is going to be -- have to manage the worst debt crisis we have. Now, in business, it's strategic management of debt that is on the CEO and CFO. Trump will do that far better than Hillary Clinton. So that's the bottom line. Now, the other thing about Trump is the best way to reduce our debt will be to double our growth rate. Right now, first quarter, the Obama administration we're at .5 percent of our GDP. You know what that does to our tax revenues? They plummet. So as Barack Obama sits there in the White House, our debt gets bigger and bigger. Donald Trump would be that guy to manage that debt.

BURNETT: OK. So, let me ask you, Austin. You hear Peter trying to make the case. Donald Trump saying I borrow -- quoting him, since I could make a deal if the economy crashed. Peter says, solid, makes sense. And you?

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: Crazy! Insane. If the president of the United States were Donald Trump, and the president merely speculated the way that he did on this show, there would be a stock market crash within ten minutes. For the United States government to say that we're going to treat treasuries the way you would treat a junk bond and threaten them with bankruptcy unless they take a ten cents on the dollar offer is -- if -- Alexander Hamilton were no dead, he would be -- it would be killing him.

We have spent the last 200-plus years establishing that the U.S. Treasury bond is the safest asset in the world. Bar none. When there are financial crises on the planet, money flows to the United States and our interest rates go down. What Donald Trump proposed just mentioning it is likely to have cost the United States billions of dollars, because people think that there is even a small chance that Donald Trump would get elected, that he might consider doing things like that.

[19:22:42] BURNETT: So Donald Trump says he knows he can do it. And he's making the case. So, Peter says, look, CEO, CFL, they know how to manage a balance sheet. That's the skill the President of the United States needs, maybe part of the problem is that we haven't had presidents with those skills. Donald Trump says business success matters and here is how he puts it.


TRUMP: This country right now owes $19 trillion. And they need somebody like me to straighten out that mess.

I'm the king of at the time. I love debt.

I bought mortgages back when the markets went back. I bought mortgages back at tremendous discounts. And I love doing that. I mean, it's nothing like it. Actually, it gives me a great thrill.


BURNETT: It gives me a great thrill. Is that really what you want, though, Peter?

NAVARRO: Look, the reality here that Austin and Barack Obama cannot dodge from is we've doubled our debt in the last eight years. We're growing close to zero and that increases the debt. And they have absolutely no credibility in either managing the economy or managing our debt. Austin says, yes, well, if Trump says anything, it's going to devalue our dollar, it's going to devalue our debt. The worst thing that the world can see right now is the mismanagement of our economy that's going on for eight years.

I mean, we've tried this Keynesian thing for eight years. Donald Trump is going to solve the economic problems and double our growth rate back to historic levels through his tax and trade reforms.

BURNETT: OK. NAVARRO: And that's the program he's going to run in, and the Obama White House and the Clinton run has nothing to say about that. They've got nothing. Because we are in the mess we're in because of --

BURNETT: Final word, Austin. King of debt. Could it be a good thing?

GOOLSBEE: No. It's not a -- the king of debt is not a good thing. Donald Trump's experience is with junk bonds and running things through bankruptcy so you threaten the creditors if you don't accept my offer, I will run you through bankruptcy and you will get very little. That's not only -- that's not just irrelevant, that's the opposite of the lesson that you want the President to have. Donald Trump, if he's so upset about the increases in the deficit that occurred during the recession, why is he proposing a $12 trillion tax cut?


GOOLSBEE: Four times bigger than the Bush tax cuts. It would explode the deficit.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much. No doubt. A big part of the conversation that he's going to have with Paul Ryan.

NAVARRO: And we'll have both of you back. Thank you.

BURNETT: Next, Jon Stewart weighing in on the race tonight, taking aim and getting personal with Donald Trump.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is a man baby. He's -- has the physical countenance of a man. And a baby's temperament and hands. So --


BURNETT: And top Republicans say they cannot support Trump's proposed Muslim ban. The front-runner's foreign policy adviser, OUTFRONT tonight.


[19:29:26] BURNETT: Payback tonight. Donald Trump today defending his attacks on Hillary Clinton as an enabler of her husband's affairs. The GOP frontrunner calling it, quote-unquote, "retribution." Here's how he put it today.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: I was so surprised to see you going after Clinton for her husband's infidelity and calling her an enabler. Why waste time on that?

TRUMP: She is playing the woman's card to the hilt. She can't talk about me because nobody respects women more than Donald Trump. And I'm going to take -- I will -- I will be better for women by a big factor than Hillary Clinton, who frankly, I don't even think will be good to women.


[19:30:07] BURNETT: Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT in Virginia covering Hillary Clinton.

And, Jeff, you had a chance to talk to her today. She is not taking that bait tonight.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: She's not, Erin, talking about everything but this. She is really focusing on the challenges and problems of working families, women voters, that's why she's in northern Virginia, which is one of those critical suburban battle grounds. We'll be talking about it again and again and again for the next six months or so.

She's going after women voters by talking about health care, child care, education, answering their questions. And they didn't raise those questions about this. But we caught up with her after her event and asked her why she is not responding to Donald Trump.


HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to let him run his campaign however he chooses. I'm going to run my campaign, which is about a positive vision for our country, with specific plans that I think will help us solve problems that we're facing, knocking down those barriers that stand in the way of people. I am going to continue to really reach out to people, to listen to people and make the case for the kind of president that I would be.


ZELENY: Erin, her advisers say she wants to take the high road and she can handle anything that he dishes out to her. But the question is s as we have seen throughout the Republican campaign, Donald Trump, some of the things he says actually stick. And some of the attacks he makes actually work.

So, as this goes on, it will be fascinating to watch the discipline from the Clinton campaign remains or if she'll be drawn into this or perhaps more likely, if bill Clinton will be drawn into somehow responding to Donald Trump.

BURNETT: Maybe that's Donald Trump's ultimate hope that he would accomplish that. Thank you very much, Jeff Zelly.

OUTFRONT now, political commentator and Trump supporter, Kayleigh McEnany, CNN political commentator and former adviser for President Obama, Van Jones, and our political commentator, Margaret Hoover, who served in the George W. Bush administration.

Van, tonight, Hillary Clinton saying she is going to take the high road and ignore it.


BURNETT: The path of those who have tried to do that is not pretty, versus Donald Trump. I give you Jeb Bush. The path of those who have fought back aggressively is not pretty. I give you Marco Rubio. And the path of those in between, I don't know where Ted Cruz is today. Didn't show up back on Capitol Hill.

All right. What is she supposed to do re? Ignore it, take the high road? Smart?

JONES: Look, I think at this point, she has made a bet on the American people. She believes that when it's all said and done, talking about the size of his hands and all this sort of stuff, is going to fall by the wayside, and at some point, America has to walk into a voting booth and make a decision.

And she's -- she's making a bet, it could be the wrong bet, that people are going to be more interested in the substantive argument about what would make women's lives better than arguing about Bill Clinton. She's making a bet.

BURNETT: Kayleigh, how are Bill Clinton's affairs relevant? They are, after all, his affairs.

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. Let's take away his actions and let's look at her actions with regard to Kathleen Wylie, Juanita Broderick, all of these women, Paula Jones, who have come out and said that they were demonized by Hillary Clinton 15.8 percent of women, just that number, come out and commit -- not commit, reveal their sexual assaults, because they're scared of Hillary Clinton or someone like Hillary Clinton demonizing them or not believing them.

So, Hillary Clinton tweets out on May 15th, every victim of sexual assault deserves to be heard and believed, unless the sexual assault committed by her husband and then all of a sudden, they are demonized. This was confirmed by Linda Trip, who had her office right now from Hillary Clinton. Multiple women have confirmed this. So, it's Hillary Clinton's actions we're talking about here, not Bill Clinton's.

BURNETT: Heavy sigh, as she was speaking.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, one of the things Kayleigh has said previously when talking about the best Trump strategy is not to put Hillary Clinton in a position of being the victim. And as soon as you bring up the playbook from the 1990s, you immediately put her in a position of leaving with incredibly high favorability ratings, incredibly sort of remorseful and empathetic public towards her.

I think she is trying to stay out of this fight, probably because she doesn't want to talk about this yet, right? This is not a comfortable thing for her to talk about. She does want to keep it on policy. But the truth is, I mean, Donald Trump goes for the jugular, below the

belt. He is lessoning and coarsening the discourse in this country, and the politics in this country. We all know that. But he has to win more women than Mitt Romney won. Mitt Romney won by 12 -- lost by 12 percent when it comes to women, OK?

We are not -- you were talking earlier he about what happens when you go after Donald Trump. What happens, that was relevant to a Republican primary electorate, not the general electorate.

He is not talking to a general electorate any more. It's like he has forgotten he's supposed to pivot. He's supposed to win women now. Those plays aren't going to work for a general election.

BURNETT: All right. What's interesting is my understanding is, when anyone wants to talk to him about pivoting, he gets very frustrated. He doesn't want to talk about that at all.

And, Kayleigh, you know, the other thing is, this highlights Trump, as Margaret points out, Trump's huge deficit with women. It's an incredible deficit. He can't win unless he changes, and he knows it.

His comments about women he gotten him in trouble, and if he's going to talk about Hillary Clinton, people are going to hear about what the things he said, like the fact that he said this on Howard Stern.


TRUMP: There are really some incredible, beautiful women. That walk up and they'll flip their top.



TRUMP: And they'll flip their panties.

I saw a woman who was totally beautiful.


TRUMP: She was angry that so many men were calling her. How tear they call me, it's terrible. They're all looking at my breasts. So she had a major breast reduction. Good news, nobody calls her any more.


MCENANY: Yes, he's going to have to have a mea culpa with women. There's no doubt about that. But what he's going to say is, you're pointing to my words, maybe I shouldn't have said some of those things, but I'm going to point to your actions, Hillary Clinton.

And millennial women who care deeply about sexual assault, they are going to care about Juanita Broderick who accused Bill Clinton of rape and was demonized by Hillary Clinton. She said, chills went down her spine when Hillary Clinton grabbed her hand and she felt like she was get threatened and bullied and to not coming out. So, he is going to say those are words. Here are actions.

BURNETT: Van, will it work?

JONES: You know, this is just very distasteful. People at home now are cringing. And they're thinking to themselves, is this what it's come to? Is this where we are as a country?

I was just in Indiana. I'm just going to talk personally. I was in Indiana for family business.

You're looking at towns that have been abandoned. You're looking at Blockbuster video stores empty for six years. You've got grass growing up through parking lots.

It's not just factories gone, stores are gone. And this is what we're talking about? I think that at a certain point, yes, this is all awful. But at a certain point, people are going to say enough. Six months of this, enough.

BURNETT: But here's why, you know, Jon Stewart, Margaret was saying, this is why -- what you're talking about is exactly why Donald Trump has risen on the axe files with David Axelrod, he have just said this.


JON STEWART: The door is open to an (EXPLETIVE DELETED) like Donald Trump, because the Democrats haven't done enough to show to people that government that can be effective for people can be efficient for people. And if you can't do that, then you've lost the right to make that change, and someone is going to come in and demagogue you.


HOOVER: That to me is a really shocking and very interesting explanation for like market failure on Democrats' part which has led to the rise of Donald Trump. I tend to think it's a market failure on the Republican side of not addressing the bottom half of the economic scale that hasn't seen their incomes rise in the last 50 years.

The descriptions you're talking about in Indiana, I mean, that's Republicans' fault for not addressing those concerns.

But back to the thing on Howard Stern, that was abject objectification of women. And that is going to go directly towards the Republicans' war on women. He's now the Republican standard bearer. I mean, all of the arguments that the Democrats have spent a decade laying about why Republicans fail to do well with women, and Donald Trump's words and actions have already fallen directly into that narrative.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you all very much.

And next, Trump sounding a lot like Bernie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The American people are saying no to a rigged economy!

TRUMP: It's a system that's rigged.


BURNETT: But can Trump get Sanders' supporters to vote for him? The crucial question. We have some answers.

And what may be his most controversial proposal yet.


TRUMP: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.


BURNETT: Is it time for Donald Trump to stand down? His top foreign policy adviser is OUTFRONT.


[19:42:14] BURNETT: Donald Trump has a new target, Bernie Sanders supporters. The GOP front runner saying he will start using some of the same talking points as Sanders, specifically saying that. This as Sanders again slams Trump on the campaign trail.


SANDERS: Standing together always Trump's dividing us up. Coming together to support each other always trumps selfishness. Love always trumps hatred.




KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A liberal at this Donald Trump rally in California. But Aviana Veneto is not here to protest.

Veneto in the hat came to learn about the man shaking the political system and her own political convictions to the core. She is a Los Angeles real estate agent, a once reliable Democrat, and Latina, currently, supporting Bernie Sanders.

AVIANA VENETO, CALIFORNIA VOTER AND SANDERS SUPPORTERS: Well, I like Bernie, but it just doesn't seem that he's going to get there. So, is it going to be Trump? I'd rather vote for Trump.

LAH (on camera): You'd rather vote for Donald Trump than Hillary Clinton? VENETO: For sure.

LAH: But somebody who supports Bernie, you would naturally think that they would vote for Clinton instead of Trump.

VENETO: Right. But we don't like Clinton.

LAH (voice-over): Sanders supporters displayed that dislike of Hillary Clinton at a Hollywood fund-raiser, showering her motorcade with dollar bills.

VENETO: I don't like another Clinton. It seems like a hunger for power and staying in power forever.

LAH: What Veneto wants is a candidate outside the Washington establishment who will fight for what she wants. Higher-paying jobs, lower crime and reduced illegal immigration. Bernie Sanders drawing her support by poking at the powerful, calling the system unfair.

SANDERS: We do not represent the interests of the billionaire class, the American people are saying no to a rigged economy.

LAH: A sentiment echoed by Trump.

TRUMP: It's a system that's rigged. And we're going to go back to the old way. It's called you vote and you win.

LAH: On the economy?

SANDERS: We have lost tens of thousands of factories, and manufacturing plants because of disastrous trade policies.

TRUMP: NAFTA as an example has been a total disaster for the United States.

LAH: That similarity leading Trump this weekend to predict he will indeed snag Bernie Sanders supporters.

TRUMP: I'm going to go out and I'm going to get millions of people from the Democrats. I'm going to get Bernie people to vote because they like me on trade.

LAH: Camp Hillary calling that wishful thinking.

CLINTON: I'm going to be very aggressive in, you know, reaching out to Senator Sanders supporters. But we have so much more in common. And we have far more in common than they do with Donald Trump or any Republican.

[19:45:03] LAH: Not really, argues Veneto who voted for Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

(on camera): What is it that draws you to Donald Trump?

VENETO: Yes, well, nothing drew me to him until it doesn't seem anybody else is going to be there. That's my problem. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LAH: We called a group Los Angeles for Bernie and spoke with a cofounder. She says she does not know of a single Sanders supporter who would vote for Trump, saying to do so would be, quote, "crazy". And Erin, that's backed up by some polling, a "Washington Post" poll shows that the vast majority of Sanders supporters, 86 percent, view Trump unfavorably -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much. Eighty-six percent. But if he gets others, could that help him? We shall see.

Next, Donald Trump still defending the controversial plan to ban Muslims from the United States, doubling down overnight. So how would it work? One of his top advisers joins me.

And Jeanne Moos with "SNL's" church lady. Yes, she's back, taking on Donald Trump.


BURNETT: Breaking news, Donald Trump tonight making an exception, an exception to his plan to temporarily ban Muslims from entering the United States. He is telling "The New York Times" that the newly elected London mayor, the first Muslim mayor of the city, would be the exception.

[19:50:03] OUTFRONT now, Lieutenant General Michael Flynn. He was director of Defense Intelligence Agency under President Obama and is now foreign policy adviser to Donald Trump.

General, thank you very much for being with me.

This news crossing just now, breaking news. The first time that the president has said -- that Donald Trump has said, an exception he would make if he were president to this rule with the mayor of London.

Tell me how this would work. This is pretty significant to make an exception, but how do you have a policy if you're going to make exceptions.

LT. GEN. MICHAL FLYNN, FORMER DIRECTOR, DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY, TRUMP ADVISER: You're always going to have exceptions. But, first of all, thanks for having me on, Erin. I would tell you I think one of the things we need to do when you talk about Muslims entering the country, like all immigrants that are coming here trying to be citizens, is we have to understand where they're coming from, why they're coming here.

And particularly, the lessons we should learn from mass immigration that's come out of the Middle East, particularly Syria and those that ISIS forced into Europe. And we know ISIS has, in fact, infiltrated some of those immigrant populations coming into Europe. We know that to be true.

So, we have to learn lessons from what is happening in Europe. And I think that the caution that Mr. Trump has actually stated in some of his comments, I think it is very important to follow that.

BURNETT: Look, there are serious issues, and there is no -- there is no easy answer. That's very clear. But you're going to say you're going to temporarily ban all Muslims, and then you're starting to announce individual exceptions to the rule. Doesn't that prove the rule itself is flawed?

FLYNN: No, no, there's always exceptions. And I think that this is an important one. I think it's Sadiq Khan, who's the new mayor of London, and, you know, obviously, he has been elected by the people of the city of London into that really important position. And obviously what we could do is learn from him and we could learn from his ideas about some of the things that maybe he, you know, can help us better understand.

But I do believe that there are some serious lessons that we have to learn before we start allowing individuals that are particularly coming from these areas like Syria where we know ISIS has stated that they are going to infiltrate these groups, their organization, into these immigrant populations coming in. So, we just have to be very careful how we do this, Erin.

BURNETT: General, the former Defense Secretary Robert Gates said that leaders around the world are worried if Trump becomes president there could be serious, negative repercussions. Here is how former Secretary Gates put it.



ROBERT GATES, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: Many of them have said publicly how worried they are about the possibility of Mr. Trump becoming president, his unpredictability, his lack of understanding of the complexity of international affairs, his threats.


BURNETT: Robert Gates, of course, served as defense secretary under George W. Bush.

General, you have taken a risk supporting Donald Trump and becoming an adviser, I am sure you take criticism from some for doing that. Why do you think only a handful of former military leaders have come forward like you to back Donald Trump?

FLYNN: You know, first of all, I have enormous respect for Secretary Gates. He is one of the best secretaries we had in a long time.

You know, there are plenty others, believe me, Erin, a lot of others out there, and many, many in the military, too, that feel much the same way I do. But this is not about just the military or Muslims. This is about the future of our country and the direction that we're currently heading with all of the issues, this incredibly complex world. And I think what we need is someone different who is willing to lead

and to take some risk in some of the things we are doing. The political class of our country has not served us well, certainly for the last probably two decades. So, we're in a different place today, Erin, the world has completely changed. That's why the American public has really sort of awoken, and they have been coming to the polls to vote for Mr. Trump.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I agree with everything that he has said, but I do know as an individual, he is willing to listen and he's willing to certainly, you know, have debate about what it is he is trying to do for this country. And that's end of the day, that's really where he is coming from. He is trying to figure out we need to do more for the country, and he is taking this one on.

BURNETT: All right. Well, General Flynn, thank you very much. I appreciate your time tonight.

General Flynn is author of "Field of Fight: How We Can Win the Global War Against Radical Islam and Its Allies."

OUTFRONT next, Jeanne Moos with "SNL's" church lady scolding Donald Trump for more than 25 years.


[19:58:05] BURNETT: "Saturday Night Live's" church lady has a history with Donald Trump. Here's Jeanne Moos.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Give her an amen on and off for about three decades.

CHURCH LADY: Hello again, I'm the church lady. Welcome to church chat.

MOOS: Church lady has been one of "SNL's" special characters.

CHURCH LADY: Well, isn't that special.

MOOS: And now, Dana Carvey is back, especially eager to cast judgment on you know who.

CHURCH LADY: The tangerine tornado, Donald J. Trump.

MOOS: Church lady first tangled with Trump 26 years ago, back when he divorced his first wife to marry Marla Maples.

CHURCH LADY: Well, we certainly are flexible.

MOOS: And when Trump showed up, he gave church lady more trouble than the real Donald gave the pope.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could buy you and sell you and your freak show dog and pony act, whatever this is. MOOS: The church lady held up that famous headline.


MOOS: And sent Phil Hartman packing.

CHURCH LADY: Scoot, sinners. Scoot, scoot, sinners.

MOOS: Never imagining she was scooting the future candidate for president.

Twenty-six years later, Darrell Hammond is playing Trump, spouting Scripture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Love thy neighbor like thy self, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

MOOS: Carvey once told Oprah where the church lady came from.

DANA CARVEY, COMEDIAN: We were Lutherans. I grew up Lutheran. We called ourselves Catholic light.

MOOS: Carvey says his family would show up at church after missing a couple of Sundays.

CARVEY: These church ladies will sort of give this little judgmentals, as if they were saying well, well, well, apparently, some of us come to church when it's convenient.

MOOS: He has done everyone from Jim and Tammy Fay Baker to the real Justin Beiber.

CHURCH LADY: I want a taste of that sweet Bieber.


CHURCH LADY: Hello, O.J. sinner.

MOOS: The church lady has aged gracefully, while the Donald's character has grown blonder, and beefier.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, church lady.

MOOS: Jeanne Moos --

CHURCH LADY: Well, isn't that special?

MOOS: -- CNN --

CHURCH LADY: Well, isn't that extra special?

MOOS: -- New York.


BURNETT: And thanks for joining us. Anderson starts now.