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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

North Carolina Governor Sues Justice Department Over Bathroom Bill; N.C. Governor To Speak On Bathroom Bill At 1 p.m. Eastern; Justice Department To Hold News Conference At 3:30p.m. Eastern; Judge Rules El Chapo Can Be Extradited To The U.S.; Cooler Temperatures Help Slow Huge Wildfires; Jerry Sandusky's Oldest Accuser Comes Forward. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired May 09, 2016 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:30:03] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN HOST: But this one I can guarantee you this could be something good in here.

Today, Monday, May 9th, 2016, 3:30 p.m. Eastern time. The DOJ is going to provide an update on a law enforcement matter. And so just happens that Loretta Lynch, the Attorney General is going to be accompanied by the Deputy Assistant Attorney General Vanita Gupta who's the head of the Civil Rights Division.

So me thinks that's going to be the response to the response today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yup.

BANFIELD: Stand by, if you would, please, Martin, for a moment. I want to bring in a couple of guest North Carolina's position on this law. It does not necessarily reflect public opinion because we have a new CNN ORC poll saying 57 percent of Americans oppose this law that requires bathrooms used by gender at birth. So there you go.

Almost 60 percent of the folks out there across the country said, not in our interests. Thanks so much. What was really interesting is when you break it down by Republicans and Democrats, you might think that in that Republican line at the very bottom, that it would be imbalanced but look, almost -- really half and half.

So it doesn't seem to be a very strong Republican issue either. At least not as strong as some people think it might have been. Maybe earlier as this has gotten a lot of attention.

I want to bring in CNN legal analyst Paul Callan, a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor and Jillian Weiss, transgender rights attorney as well.

Paul Callan, first to you. The response to the response in a moment, but first, what the state has done. What North Carolina has done? I'm going to read a tweet that the governor sent out and the statement that they released and the tweet said this, our lawsuit seeks to ensure that North Carolina continues receives federal funding until the courts clarify federal law and resolve this national issue. Is that the kind of response that will protect their money until the courts they ever do will finalize this? PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This is North Carolina, Hail Mary

pass to try to delay things and protect federal money because the feds are threatening to cut off federal funds for violation of civil rights laws if North Carolina doesn't accommodate transgendered people.

The governor is saying, this is never been decided definitively by the federal courts. You can't and shouldn't be able to cut off our federal funding, and hence, they're going to court now to say to a federal judge, hey, could you give us an advisory opinion? It's called a declaratory judgment about whether or not it looks like we're right or the federal government is right in interpreting civil rights laws.

BANFIELD: And until, at which point we might get a declaratory judgment and the money issue is front and center, Jillian, there are a number of people and entities that have weighed in on this with the money factor. I'm going to get to the federal money in a moment but just the marketplace itself has jumped in on this. A 120 plus different businesses have send letters to the North Carolina governor demanding that the law be repealed. There are a lot of companies that have actually canceled plans to operate in North Carolina. Paypal, Deutsche Bank, NBA, NCAA on various ways have said that we're going to actually pull our interests there.

Musicians canceled concerts Bruce Springsteen, Demi Lovato, Nick Jonas, Pearl Jam, Boston, Beyonce actually performed but said she was against this. Cities have said we're not going to put -- we're going to ban any essential travel to do business in -- this is a big deal. Financially, this could be worth millions if not billions and then there's the federal money, Jillian. And as a lawyer, you know full well what kind of money the federal government can pull. I know about Title 9 money but what else they can pull?

JILLIAN WEISS, TRANSGENDER RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, the Violence Against Women's Act gives money to states to work on issues involving law enforcement in favor of women. That money could be pulled. The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, which handles housing money for states. They are now investigating that. The Department of Transportation has said that they are investigating whether or not their funds are in jeopardy. So there's a lot at stake here.

BANFIELD: And when this is resolved, Paul Callan, the governor of North Carolina is saying in his statements, in his tweets, in his public comments that this is not just a North Carolina issue. This is a all states issue. It is, isn't it? Once the federal government weighs in, it's not just North Carolina, it's everybody.

CALLAN: Well, yes, and this is going to affect federal funding in all states, in every state, and I would have to say the North Carolina governor's not in a very good position here because there was a decision that was upheld by the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. Now, that's a higher federal court right below the level of the Supreme Court and it covers North Carolina saying in Virginia that it was a violation of Title IX, another civil rights law --

BANFIELD: So there's (inaudible) already? CALLAN: -- to discriminate against transgendered people, that they are a protected class.

Yeah, there's case law on the side --

BANFIELD: I have to wrap it up but you said something critical that they are a protected class. Technically not though. I mean, there needs to be action to add transgender to race and sexual, you know --

[12:35:06] CALLAN: Well, the federal courts can determine based upon the statute who are the protected classes and the federal courts now seem to be going in the direction, the clear trend is that transgendered people are and should be a protected class. But we don't have a national law that's been handed down yet.

BANFIELD: Right. And I think the issue is yet because that seems to be where this may have to go to finally get some closure.

WEISS: But the key is its part of sex discrimination. It's not that transgender is added as a protected class it's that sex discrimination covers transgendered people. For example, if I change my religion, would you say, oh, well, you're not covered because you changed your religion?

BANFIELD: Got it.

WEISS: If I changed my sex. I'm covered. That's what the court have said.

BANFIELD: So you don't need the protected class at this point to be able to be covered.

WEISS: It's part of sex discrimination.

BANFIELD: I got it. All right, Jillian Weiss, thank you so much. Paul Callan, thank you as well. Appreciate it. A lot more to come on in. As we mentioned Governor McCrory expected to give a statement at the top of the hour. One p.m. Eastern time and Attorney General Loretta Lynch is expected to speak at 3:30 p.m. Eastern Time (inaudible) news conferences in every sense. We're going to bring you those live. Make sure you stay tuned.

We've also got this breaking news. One of the most notorious drug lords could soon be headed to our shores here in the United States. Welcome. Because a Mexican judge just cleared the way to extradite El Chapo. What will that mean for the governments here? What will that mean for the courts here? What will that mean for justice for that guy? We're going to get that legal view, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:40:51] BANFIELD: This breaking news. A Mexican judge has just ruled that the man on your screen, that notorious drug lord, Joaquin Guzman who is better known as El Chapo can now be extradited to face justice here in the United States. He was moved to a prison just south of the Texas border on Saturday. For more on what's to come in this story, we turn to CNN's Boris Sanchez in Miami and CNN legal analyst Joey Jackson. So, first of all, this is a big development he's headed to the United States. I cannot imagine, Boris Sanchez, the kind of transportation they are going to have to organize for a man who is just as notorious for breaking out of high security prisons.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is certainly going to be a huge security operation, Ashleigh. What we've heard is that on both sides of the border, officials have been working on getting El Chapo extradited to the United States for months and less than an hour ago we got this official confirmation from Mexican federal court that a judge approved the request from the Department of Justice to have him extradited to the U.S., however, it's not something that's going to happen imminently. There still needs to be approval by the Mexican Foreign Ministry.

So there's still a process ahead in order for El Chapo to face a judge on American soil. The belief is that once he gets here, he's going to go to court in Brooklyn, New York, where he was indicted in 2009 for a slew of charges. Everything from murder to kidnapping and torture and, of course, importing more than a quarter million pounds of cocaine into the United States. And it's not just New York. He's facing charges in several other states including Arizona, California, Texas, Illinois, Florida, and New Hampshire. So there's a long legal road for El Chapo ahead once he does finally get on American soil, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I'm just wondering what kind of budgets New Hampshire has for a federal prosecution of this magnitude. I laugh, but this story has been a movie-making story all along. I just want to remind you and our viewers, I don't need to remind you. You actually supply this information, Boris. Of all the things that the prison is doing right now just to make sure that this guy doesn't escape again. Remember, he got out of the laundry cart then he was tunneled out by his supporters.

They've now got motion sensors that monitor his every move, dogs trained to detect his scent standing guard at all times, prison floors that are reinforced with steel rods. They've got 400 cameras and were planning just by April to install another 600 to, I think, take it to a thousand cameras and guards that follow him wearing helmet mounted cameras at all times. That is a high security risk, that inmate.

I want to bring in Joey Jackson into this. Because as Boris reports, it's likely this is going to happen. This extradition is going to happen. I'm picturing, you know, the Hannibal Lecter style, you know, jacket and mask to put him on a plane, to bring him to presumably New York, that's my guess.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The jails in the United States are certainly equipped to deal with the worst of the worst of criminals. And so in terms of security, you have the U.S. Marshals, you have the FBI, you have Homeland Security. So I wouldn't envision some type of scenario where he would otherwise be a vulnerable prisoner in terms of leaving and escaping. I don't see that.

Ironically, if he does come to Brooklyn, which is the decision the Department of Justice will have to make. There's a strong case there involving heroin distribution, you know, putting him with really like a dozen or more murders, et cetera, et cetera. Very strong case. It looks like he does go there.

There's an underground tunnel in Brooklyn. So it's very curious as to the, you know, the nature of how he would shift here. Btu the reality is that it's a strong case and even if he's convicted there and Boris Sanchez mentioned, he's wanted in a number of other jurisdiction Chicago, Texas, San Diego, et cetera, I think it certain the punishment that would be exacted from a conviction in Brooklyn would not happen to see the light of day again.

BANFIELD: Well, and to that just so I can remind our viewers, he is wanted for drug trafficking. We all know that, the heroin, the marijuana trafficking then on top of that, the racketeering, money laundering, kidnapping and conspiracy to commit murder. So even if he beats to wrap on one or two or three of those, he still got New York --

JACKSON: Right.

BANFIELD: -- Arizona, California, Texas, Illinois, Florida, New Hampshire, as Boris just reported.

[12:45:11] JACKSON: He's looking at a life sentence here and even if there is an acquittal which they indicate the case is quite strong, he has a number of other jurisdictions to disentangle himself from.

BANFIELD: And wore Hannibal Lecter style transportation --

JACKSON: Wow.

BANFIELD: -- from states.

JACKSON: Yes.

BANFIELD: I'm telling you, that's what I picture when I hear about this guy and there's Boris laughing because he's had to cover this. It's really unbelievable to hear how this man has escaped incarceration before. Boris, thank you for your reporting. Especially so last minute on this breaking news and Joey Jackson as always.

JACKSON: Thank you, Ashleigh. Thank you.

BANFIELD: He always knows the answers. So this look is so absolutely nothing could stop the monster wildfire that is burning up Northern Alberta and so far, nothing has. But at least something. One little thing is giving firefighters a fighting chance and we're going to tell you what it is and update you when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BANFIELD: That huge wildfire in Canada is still burning out of control, but it is showing some signs of slowing down. There is much cooler weather that is descended upon this area and that's a big reason that the Fort McMurray fire has not yet burned as much ground as officials were terrified it would do and predicted so on Saturday.

[12:50:18] Still, it has consumed 400,000 acres. And if you're wondering how big that is, it is an area larger than New York City.

Alberta's premiere will visit towns that are ravaged by the fire today. She's going to be met with scenes like this. It looks like a war zone, total desecration and there are hundreds and hundreds of homes and buildings like this simply reduced to charred rubble and ashes. Children who fled the fire are describing what they saw.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw the flames, and they were very bad and like the fire it was made like very big. We saw the smoke at downtown and we thought my school was burnt down, but it wasn't. It's like very bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Very bad, to say the very least.

CNN's Jessica Schneider is live with me now from Edmonton, Alberta, with the latest.

I'm just looking at the numbers. We're now up to about 90,000 people who have had to flee and many of them right there in Edmonton, one of the major cities in Alberta and also further South in Calgary. Are they able to take people in and while at it, there's a lot of wind where you are. Is that going to die down anytime soon?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, the wind is a major factor, Ashleigh. And while the weather conditions have turned a bit better in that they're cooler and there was some precipitation, there's a bit more humidity, the winds are still fanning these flames.

So a bit of mixed news out here when it comes to the fire itself, this is still a massive blaze. But it actually tracked eastward, which means it's tracked away from the major population centers. And it's now headed towards the densely forested areas near Saskatchewan.

So that's a bit of good news. When you talk about the people, 90,000 people displaced. There are 12 reception centers all over Alberta. We're here at one in Edmonton. But the people are -- have such emotions despair, uncertainty about what will happen, when and if anytime soon they get backed up to Fort McMurray. Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: That one just so hard to see those pictures beside you. That's such a beautiful area. It's my old stomping grounds too.

Jessica Schneider, thank you, thank you for that reporting. Still ahead this hour, another long buried secret comes to light in that Jerry Sandusky saga. The earliest known claim of abuse the hands of a now imprisoned former assistant to a college football legend. And you will not believe how far back the abuse goes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:57:06] BANFIELD: There are startling new revelations from Jerry Sandusky's oldest known accuser who is now a 60-year-old man himself who says that Sandusky, seen here, raped him in a Penn State bathroom back in 1971. And at that time, he was just 15-years-old.

CNN is not naming him. We do not identify sexual assault victims. But through his story, we have also learned that he received a settlement from Penn State University.

Sara Gamin, joins me now, you will know by now that she won a Pulitzer Prize for her incredible work covering this scandal, breaking that story that a grand jury was investigating Jerry Sandusky. Wow, how did we find this man?

SARA GANIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a man actually that I've known about for four years. He came forward to an attorney the day after Sandusky was arrested. But what's really important to know about his story is that it's not just an allegation of rape against Jerry Sandusky a long, long time ago. He also says that his foster parents put him on the phone with Joe Paterno to report his rape and that he was told by Joe Paterno not to make this kind of an accusation against a good man.

BANFIELD: Let me get it straight, he's 15-years-old. His foster parents are appalled when he tells them what happened on -- at the hands of Jerry Sandusky. They call the university. And this man, who's now 60, says "I know I was on the phone with Joe."

GAMIN: He says, he would know that voice anywhere and it was Joe Paterno's voice. In addition, and this is what makes it so significant.

In the last week, Ashleigh, we learned a lot more about the allegations that Penn State's been aware of over the last several years. There's been a lot of ambiguity, a lot of vagueness about what Joe Paterno knew when he knew it, what he reported, what he didn't.

We'll last week, we learned from a court order that there was another person in 1976 who told Joe Paterno, who alleges that he told Paterno.

And again, similar situation, there's more incidents from the 1980s where assistant coaches are alleged to have witnessed to some kind of inappropriate behavior between Jerry Sundusky and a child on campus.

BANFIELD: What's interesting though, I have to say, is that, you know, the university is not the least bit interested in acknowledging this, yet, they settled with them and they're giving a statement today.

GAMIN: These are allegations that have come out through the settlement proceedings.

So in response to all of this, Penn State's President, Eric Barron, and I should also say the Paterno family has denied all of these allegations as well. But the Penn State president says "The two allegations related to knowledge by Coach Paterno are unsubstantiated and unsupported by any evidence other than by a claim by an alleged victim." He goes on to say, "I have had enough of the continued trial of the institution in various media. We have all had enough. And while Penn State cannot always comment on allegations that emanate from legal proceedings, I thought it was important to let you know my reaction to the media frenzy that has ensued over the past few days. I am appalled."

[13:00:12] I'll tell you what, I have talked to several --

BANFIELD: He may be appalled --

GANIM: -- I have talked to several --

BANFIELD: -- he may be appalled, but he's called this unsubstantiated and unsupported yet the university seems to think it wasn't unsubstantiated not to settle.

I'm flat out of time, but I want to continue this conversation as we continue to uncover these things.

GANIM: Of course.

BANFIELD: Sara Graham, excellent work, as always. Thank you for that.

And thank you, everyone, for watching as well. Please stay tuned. "WOLF" starts right now.