Return to Transcripts main page

Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Trump Meeting Ryan; West Virginia Primary; Democratic Battle. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired May 10, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:00:00] PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Because it's playing into extremist's hands by alienating mainstream Muslims. More than that, he says that this election that is taking place here really disproves the Trump view by showing that mainstream Muslim, it's -- Muslims, their community, are not incompatible with liberal western democratic views.

Kate.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Phil Black. Phil Black, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And thanks so much for joining us AT THIS HOUR.

BERMAN: "LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

We've got our cameras fixed on two live events going on right now. U.S. senator and former GOP presidential candidate Marco Rubio on the left-hand side of your screen about to give a talk entitled Middle East in crisis at the Hudson Institute in Washington. And if that topic doesn't grab you, how about politics? He's expected to talk about the campaign. And then also Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton on the right-hand side of your screen, expected any moment to start talking about working families. This event in Lexington, Kentucky, sort of a round table conversation with young parents it's being billed. We're going to dip into that when Secretary Clinton appears and if Senator Rubio delves into domestic politics as well, you will be the first to hear it right here live on CNN.

In the meantime, you probably know this. Yet again, if it's Tuesday, it's Election Day. But today's Republican contests in West Virginia and Nebraska are like none we've seen before because they are the first since those last two challengers to Donald Trump bowed out of the race, effectively handing Donald Trump the nomination. The Democrats, however, are voting in West Virginia as well, and that race still very much in contention.

And then comes Super Thursday. It's not an election, but it is a very super day because there's a face to face coming between the GOP nominee to be and the highest ranking elected Republican officer holder in the United States. And, huey (ph), stars are going to fly. How about we say that. The issue would have been unthinkable in any race since Republicans nominated Barry Goldwater back in 1964. And it just so happens that the issue blew up right here on CNN when the speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, announced that Donald Trump has not yet earned his endorsement. We're learning much more about that all important sit-down from my CNN colleagues Manu Raju, who's on Capitol Hill right now, and MJ Lee, who's live here with me in New York.

I'm going to begin with you, Manu, if I can. Ah, to be a fly on the wall. I think everybody's saying that about this Thursday meeting. But as Donald Trump goes to Capitol Hill and into that Republican leadership meeting, it also is split. There's splits everywhere, it seems. Not just in the Republican Party, but right in that meeting room. So, line it up for me. Who's on whose side at that meeting?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, what we're looking at right now is a really divided Republican conference on the House and on the Senate side. You have some folks like -- and House Republican leadership, like Paul Ryan, of course he said he's not yet ready to get behind Donald Trump. But Kevin McCarthy, the House majority leader, is one who said actually that he is actually going to go to the convention as a Trump delegate. So it really reflects the division that's happening within the Republican conference.

I can tell you yesterday my colleagues and I all spent the day scouring Capitol Hill, talking to Republican senators about whether or not they're willing to get behind Donald Trump. And what we're finding is that a lot of folks just are not quite there yet. I think that what Paul Ryan said last week almost discouraged a lot of folks from immediately falling in line, saying, well, we'll just see what Donald Trump does. It shows a lot of concern.

Interestingly, Shelley Moore Capito, how is a Republican senator from West Virginia, I had a chance to ask her, are you going to support Donald Trump as the nominee? She said, well, I want to talk to him first. I don't really know him. It really just shows a lot of Republicans just don't know Donald Trump either and they're not certain what kind of nominee he'll be and they're worried about being tied too closely with him, particularly ones in tough re-elections, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: The whole talk to him, get to know him, was a theme that Paul Ryan actually just yesterday was circulating in a couple of interviews. I just don't know the guy yet. I need to get to know him. And so maybe this will be a chance. And even better he gets a chance to get to know him at this meet and greet on Thursday, Ben Carson is weighing in as well. One of the first to endorse after dropping out of the race against Donald Trump. He's weighing in that he wants a meeting with the speaker prior to the meeting with the candidate. Can you sort that out?

RAJU: Yes, it's pretty remarkable to see -- see that happen. You know, Ben Carson is actually trying to reach out right now to Paul Ryan, try to see if they could sort of have -- have a meeting. We'll see what they have to say. But I think Ben Carson also is trying to tamp down any concerns that folks may have going in. He's certainly suggested that early -- last night when asked about this meeting with Paul Ryan.

[12:05:04] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEN CARSON, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, Donald Trump is very much looking forward to their meeting on Thursday. And I think you're going to find probably a lot more harmony than you think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: What will be remarkable to see, Ashleigh, is after that meeting. Will Paul Ryan come out and say, I endorse Donald Trump as the nominee, or will they show up side by side, or will they -- will Ryan say, look, we still need more time. That's going to be really a key moment. It's hard to see how much progress you could make in just -- such a high profile meeting. But the pressure will be on Paul Ryan in particular to fall in line given his role as House speaker, also convention -- chairman of that convention, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: OK, I want to bring in MJ Lee on -- you know, whenever you can talk about politics they always say, follow the money. So let's talk money. Donald Trump has a lot of money. But he doesn't have $1.5 billion for an election kind of money.

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Right.

BANFIELD: And the RNC has the kind of machine that can raise that money. Donald Trump doesn't have that kind of election machine. So he's going to need their help when he goes to this meeting.

LEE: Right. I mean, Donald Trump finds himself in such an unusual potion right now because, remember, for the last year, he has been railing against big donors, railing against the party in a lot of ways and railing against special interests and super PACs. And now that he is the presumptive Republican nominee, you're absolutely right, he absolutely needs to tap into the party apparatus and the big Republican donor network if he wants to raise hundreds of millions of dollars in order to be competitive with Hillary Clinton. I think the big question is, is he able to win over the very donors that he has really been criticizing for the last year in order to sort of make that appeal as the anti-establishment candidate? A lot of the donors I'm speaking to say that they are play the wait and see game. They want to see if his tone changes, especially watching the Thursday meeting with Paul Ryan very carefully to see what comes out of that.

BANFIELD: So the big names that get floated all the time, some people know the names, other people may be hearing about them for the first time, but here's some of the -- the ins and the outs. Anthony Scaramucci and Sheldon Adelson both saying they're in, they're backing him, although Sheldon hasn't written any checks yet to our knowledge. Paul Singer, no, not going to do it. Koch brothers, we're not really sure. In fact, one of them seemed to be sort of fawning a little over Hillary Clinton, which is a shock of shocks I had to re-read seven times just to see if I was reading it right.

LEE: Right. Right.

BANFIELD: But he needs those million dollar checks to come in. And I'm wondering if some of these donors are worried about his -- his financing, his plans.

LEE: Yes.

BANFIELD: Might he pay himself back first before using it on the campaign? Are they shying for that?

LEE: Well, what's fascinating is, in my reporting and in speaking with donors and people in the donor community, you're sort of seeing two groups of donors emerge that have issues with Trump or are hesitant to back Trump. The first group are, you know, is donors who think that Trump is not ideologically conservative enough. They think that he is sort of a con artist. That he, you know, used to back Democrats, but he doesn't really care about ideology and that they'd rather back someone who they believe is ideologically pure. So they take issue with Trump on that front.

BANFIELD: Who are the others?

LEE: There's another group of donors who are, you know, consider themselves to be more moderate business types who think that Trump's temperament is an issue and they look at someone like Hillary Clinton and actually, in comparison to Trump, view her as a candidate who is a better known figure, that she is more stable and they worry about Trump and his temperament because, you know, as you know, in the business world, stability is everything and they worry that Trump could actually bring a lot of instability as a Republican nominee.

BANFIELD: So it's not like he can go and bulldoze his way through any meetings on Capitol Hill on -- on Thursday because he needs these guys, but Paul Ryan said something to Jake Tapper, other than the bombshell which we all watched with jaws dropped staying I'm ready to endorse him just yet, and it was that his focus was clear for November. Have a listen to what he said. I'm going to ask you the implications in a minute.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: My focus this fall is, has been, and will be the House majority. That is primarily my responsibility and what I'm focused on. But I also really love this country and I want to see us win this election so that we can fix this country's problems.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, clearly, the speaker saying that his focus was the House.

LEE: Right.

BANFIELD: So they better play nice is all I'm saying.

And, by the way, I just got some breaking news. Glenn Beck had an interview with Ted Cruz just moments ago and Ted Cruz said something pretty fascinating. Here it is. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS (voice-over): There is a path to victory. We launched this campaign intending to win. The reason we suspended the race last week is with Indiana's loss, I didn't see a viable path to victory.

GLENN BECK: Right.

CRUZ: If that changes, we will certainly respond accordingly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Wait, did he really just say, if that changes, we will respond accordingly? Manu Raju, you don't have to clear our your ears. You heard it too. What? Did it just get crazier in here?

RAJU: You know -- well, Glenn Beck, of course, is a huge Ted Cruz supporter and really wants Ted Cruz to reconsider. Cruz also said in that interview he doesn't think that that's likely. So he kind of tamps down speculation. And he -- but he would not offer an endorsement for Donald Trump. He said that -- that, you know, we don't need to make that decision right now. And he took some shots at Donald Trump too, suggesting that, you know, his rise is fueled by a media -- a handful of media executive who tried to build him up only to tear him down in the general election. So there really was no olive branch at all. That really just shows how much work Donald Trump has to make -- has to do to repair relations with Ted Cruz and that wing of the party.

[12:10:34] Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Manu Raju, thank you for jumping in on that last little moment as it was happening. Appreciate it.

MJ Lee, as always, thank you for your reporting too.

OK, obviously there are all sorts of new things to talk about and the best people, when it comes to money and party and principle, Trump campaign advisor Healey Baumgardner and also with CNN, political commentator and former GOP congressional aide Tara Setmayer joining me now.

Okey-dokey, Tara, I want to start with you. Did you just hear what Ted Cruz just said, "if that changes"? Is it possible there could be any kind of change that would affect what Ted Cruz is about to do?

TARA SETMAYER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think so. I mean it would have to be pretty catastrophic. And we have yet to see that come from Donald Trump at this point. I mean he probably said about two dozen things that should of ended most people's presidential hopes, but he seems to have moved forward on those things. So I think this is really more about Ted Cruz not releasing his delegates because the party platform is something that is really important and that still has yet to be decided as we move into the convention in July. And they want to make sure that there's still Republican conservative principles inside the party platform based on the way Donald Trump has flip-flopped on several issues that are -- have been of critical importance to Republicans from, you know, the pro-life issue, we're not protectionists, you know, we've always been -- free trade and other things. And so -- his support for Planned Parenthood. So there are things that I think that the conservative movement and a lot of people who support Ted Cruz want to make sure stay true to Republican principles and the platform. I think it's really more about that.

BANFIELD: That whole business about not releasing the delegates, Healey, that's -- I want to bundle that with what just happened because Ted Cruz just said recently he wasn't prepared to release his delegates yet. Marco Rubio said the same thing as well. And now coupled with what Ted Cruz just said about if something changes that path to victory, you know, I will address that. Those sound a little bit like sabers being rattled, but at this point is there anything that can rattle Donald Trump?

HEALEY BAUMGARDNER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: I mean, I think the American people have spoken with the historic turnout that they've shown for Mr. Trump. And so I'm not quite sure where this rhetoric is coming from, from Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio and I think the focus needs to remain unifying the party and moving forward to defeat Hillary Clinton.

BANFIELD: Let me throw up a couple of numbers that have come up. A recent Quinnipiac poll, these are head to heads in, you know, presumable races and, of course, since we don't have a Democratic nominee right now, you got a Clinton and a Trump match-up and a Bernie and a Trump match-up. But let's talk about the Clinton match-up.

In Florida, she beats him by only a point. In Ohio, he beats her by four. And in Pennsylvania, she beats him only by a point. For his part, Bernie Sanders does better against Trump, significantly better, in fact, in all three states.

So the question I have is, Tara, when Trump goes to this meeting on Capitol Hill on Thursday, there's so many issues, the RNC machine, these numbers that you're looking at, here are the Bernie numbers where he kind of trounces Trump on all three of those swing states which are so critical. But he -- he needs them and they need him. So nobody has a right to bulldoze through this meeting, do they, Tara?

SETMAYER: Right. I mean, well, no one else has bulldozed anything except for Donald Trump. I mean that -- he's bulldozed and hijacked the Republican Party and is asking the 60 percent of the Republicans who did not vote for him to just fall in line when there are significant issues at question here and Paul Ryan, who spent his entire life fighting for conservative principles and is the speaker of the House. So, let's remember, he's elected by the people. The speaker of the House is the people's House. And since Donald Trump has emerged here, people like, you know, Charlie Cook, who is one of the gurus of political races and handicapping and things, they've actually said that it's possible the House majority, which is the largest majority Republicans have had since Truman, I think, is in jeopardy here.

The Cook Report actually moves ten races to no longer leaning Republicans. There're up -- they are toss-ups. So that scares the hell out of Paul Ryan and those of us in the party want to make sure we keep our majorities, not only in the House but in the Senate because regardless of who wins the presidency, the House and the Senate are there as firewalls for anything the president is doing that -- that may not be -- we may not be in agreement with. Just ask Republicans who are upset with -- with Barack Obama and his executive -- overreach with executive order and action.

BANFIELD: So --

[12:15:03] SETMAYER: So that's -- that's where Paul Ryan is coming from. He's coming from representing the people's House and making sure those majorities are maintained.

BANFIELD: You know, today, we still have, you know, West Virginia and Nebraska, voters are going to the polls today, Healey, and at this stage of the game in 2012, Mitt Romney was raising $2 million a day. A day. And right now, Donald Trump has to really turn that focus, not just on the rhetoric for the general election, but for the money. Do you think that your candidate is capable of raising the kind of money that he needs to raise, for all the issues that we've just discussed, the issues that he's got with the RNC, the machine that they have that he desperately needs and the promises that he's made to so many of the primary voters that he's a self-funding guy, that he's different from everyone else?

BAUMGARDNER: I think that when it comes to Mr. Trump and wondering if he's able to raise money, I mean, that's where his gift is. Not only does he do it in his private businesses, but he will do it in order to maintain the path to victory, to win the presidency in the fall, absolutely. He will be able to accomplish that. In terms of money, Mr. Trump can accomplish anything that he sets his mind to.

BANFIELD: But where is -- where is the money going to come from, Healey? I'm just so curious. If he's not able to get those big ticket donors, like all of the rickets (ph), not just some of the rickets (ph). If he's not able to get all of the Republicans on his side, if the machine that the Republicans have isn't willing to gear up to 11, where's he going to get the money?

BAUMGARDNER: Well, I think it's premature to speculate, but, I mean, clearly, that's a gift that he attains and he's looking forward to his meeting with Mr. Ryan on Thursday and I'm sure that, again, you know, they will unify the party to move forward and I think that he'll be able to accomplish raising the money needed for the general, absolutely.

BANFIELD: All right.

SETMAYER: Can I just say something really quickly about that. There's no way --

BANFIELD: No, I'm flat out of time, Tara. I'm sorry --

SETMAYER: A billion dollars he needs. A billion dollars. Where's he going to get it from?

BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE). I've got two live events coming. I have to leave it there. Thank you, Healey Baumgardner, Tara Setmayer.

Just a couple of hours from now, CNN has an exclusive interview as well with Marco Rubio. His first TV interview since he dropped out of the Republican presidential race. That's coming up on "The Lead" with Jake Tapper, 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time, only here on CNN. Cameras are trained. We're ready to go for that. So, keep it right here.

And up next, if Bernie Sanders doesn't have a chance of beating Hillary Clinton in that delegate count, then what difference would a win in West Virginia's primary make? More than you might think. Going to take you live to coal country, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:21:24] BANFIELD: Bernie Sanders looking to keep his winning streak alive and Donald Trump is the last man standing as West Virginians head to the polls today. Donald Trump's the only candidate left in the race after eliminating all 16 of his GOP challengers. But on the Democratic side, Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are still locked in a tight race, battling for every single delegate they can get. CNN's Jean Casarez is live in Charleston.

You've been there since 6:30 in the morning watching the comings and goings and you talked to some of the voters. So, take me there.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Ashleigh, there's been a constant flow of voters and I'm learning so much from these people. They are extremely engaged. And they care about this election.

We want to show everybody the early voting counts and this is people before today that cast their early vote because it's indicative, state officials say, of what's going to happen today. They've set a record in the state of West Virginia. Over 100,000 people cast their early vote for this primary, and as you can see, compared to the last two presidential primaries, nowhere close to this year's total.

And what people really care about, first and foremost, the economy. And in West Virginia, that means coal mines and that means coal miners. This is Appalachia. This is coal country. And for those people that believe that coal is the future of this state, they have that emotional attachment, that practical attachment. Their vote really is for Donald Trump.

We spoke with one lady who is a registered Democrat. She had to vote Democratic today. She said she voted for Hillary Clinton. But she believes in the general election she's going to vote for Donald Trump. Now, for those voters that believe that you've got to look forward and not look back, they say we need to have other industry come to West Virginia, and that is Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders. But we're really fine -- sort of divided, but really the pulse of the moment is with Bernie Sanders. And when I asked, well, what about the super delegates because here in West Virginia they primarily are for Clinton, the response I'm getting is, well, the super delegates of this state need to get with the program because the people of this state are going to be voting today, they say, for Bernie Sanders.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, Jean Casarez, thank you for that. Appreciate it.

Going to move beyond West Virginia now. A brand new Quinnipiac University poll out today shows that Sanders fares better against Trump than does Secretary Clinton in those all-important swing states. For instance, in Ohio, Clinton loses to Trump 39 percent to 43 percent. In the meantime, Sanders beats Trump by 2 percentage points. And when you look at the fight for Pennsylvania, Clinton narrowly beats Trump 43 to 42. Sanders, on the other hand, is up six points over Trump.

For more on the bigger picture, let's bring in "New York Times" columnist Charles Blow and Democratic strategist and Bernie Sanders supporter Nomiki Konst.

OK, so first things first, Charles Blow, when you get those head to head, everybody always says that, all Bernie Sanders supporters always say it, but if you look towards the general election --

CHARLES BLOW, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Yes.

BANFIELD: He beats Trump.

BLOW: Right.

BANFIELD: And you could say the same thing in 2008, that Hillary Rodham Clinton, you know, I think -- I think she's probably looking towards a very different kind of race this time around.

BLOW: Well, absolutely. But, I mean, here's the thing about the general election head-to-head match-ups, which is, Hillary has a point when she says that she has been the recipient of like an unending decade's long series of attacks and that has --

BANFIELD: A vast right-wing conspiracy?

BLOW: No, no, not --

BANFIELD: No?

BLOW: Not that. No. Just -- just literally -- legitimate policy oriented political attacks. Some of them policy oriented, some of them not. But -- but largely policy oriented. But -- but if you go on to a -- a Republican debate stage and all -- the only name that you hear demonized is hers, that factors into the numbers, right? And so if you look at what most strategists think, you're going to have about $4 billion spent on this election cycle. Most of it has not been spent yet. That means that within six months, you will spend billions of dollars, a lot of that will be negative ad campaigning.

[12:25:27] Bernie Sanders has not received any of that from the Republican side. Now, I'm not saying that Bernie isn't a strong candidate. I'm simply saying that he is going to become, if he were to become the nominee, he would become the brunt of a lot of the attacks that she has already been the brunt of, and it would damage his numbers as well. And that is -- is -- so I think part of it is to look out from here and say, why is it that we have this disparity. Some of it may be policy. Some of it may be personality. Some of it may be simply that they have not put the money behind attacking you and your reputation and your name.

BANFIELD: What -- what's interesting about these most recent head to heads, they were very similar kinds of numbers four years ago and yet -- in favor of Mitt Romney and yet Obama won everything, all of those swing states. But I want to go back even further to '08 because West Virginia was a very good state for Hillary Rodham Clinton in 2008. I think the blowout was 67 percent of the vote compared to President Obama's 26 percent of the vote.

NOMIKI KONST, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes.

BANFIELD: But nobody expects that to happen this time around.

KONST: This time around. Yes.

BANFIELD: Is it all because of those coal comments which she tried very hard to put into context. I just don't know that it worked.

KONST: I think some of it has to do with the coal comments. I think some of it has to do with, you know, the recession hit. Let's not forget, 2008 was before the economy tanked. And a lot of what Hillary Clinton is fighting right now is '90s era policies. A lot of her economic record is not just about, you know, years and years of being attacked, she also has years of a record, and so does Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump will probably be hit with it as well. You know, it goes across the board. Everybody gets hit in elections.

BANFIELD: Speaking of hitting --

BLOW: But --

BANFIELD: Holy smokes is he hitting her hard on her husband, his infidelities, and then her support of him in denouncing the women who spoke out against Donald Trump. And she was asked about some of the things that Donald Trump's been saying about her on the trail and it looks like she's got the script down pat. She doesn't look at this stage like she's going to hit him back or get down in the mud and get ugly. In fact, this is, instead, what she's decided to say. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, I'm answering him all the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But on this subject (INAUDIBLE).

CLINTON: Answer -- no, I'm answering him on what I think voters care about. I'm answering him on the differences between our records, our experience, what we want to do for our country, how important it is to try to unify the country. And I have been very clear that a lot of his -- a lot of his rhetoric is not only reckless, it's dangerous. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Is that what we're going to hear over and over, or is she ultimately going to have to go, fists up, buddy?

BLOW: I don't know if she has to be -- I mean I think we -- we keep forgetting that there are a lot super PACs on the sidelines with a tremendous amount of money.

BANFIELD: They can do that for her.

KONST: Yes, correct the record.

BLOW: They can do all the dirty work. They can do all of that dirty work and you don't have to necessarily do it. And I think that her strategy is, in some way, to expose him for the bully that he is, to allow him to do that, and until she sees that it starts to hurt -- if it starts to hurt her, then she may change course. But if it does not hurt her, if this strategy works -- we're six months out.

BANFIELD: Just, real quickly --

KONST: Yes.

BANFIELD: Sometimes those super PACs, Donald Trump is able to actually land the criticism on the candidate anyway. It's worked with Ted Cruz.

KONST: Absolutely. I don't know if it's working for them. I mean correct the record and some of these other super PACs are using '90s era tactics again. And that messaging isn't hitting independents and women the same way it did back then. Let's not forget, his unfavorables with women in the Republican Party is at 47 percent, but her unfavorable with Democratic women is at 44 percent. So they're sort of cancelling each other out right now and I don't think anybody knows how to message to this new -- this new voting bloc.

BANFIELD: It's super fascinating.

KONST: It's really fascinating, math changing.

BANFIELD: it's why this is the best reality show going, the news.

Charles Blow, thank you. Nomiki Konst, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

KONST: Thank you so much.

BANFIELD: Coming up next, how could the fight between the Justice Department and North Carolina over the so-called bathroom law end up costing the University of North Carolina hundreds of millions of dollars? And what is that university doing to try to protect that purse? You'll find out, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)