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CNN Live Event/Special
Another Important Win for Bernie Sanders; Trump Wins West Virginia and Nebraska; Sanders Speaks in Oregon. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired May 10, 2016 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Another important win for Bernie Sanders in his quest to win the democratic presidential nomination.
Take a look at West Virginia, Nebraska, on the republican side, no surprise here. Donald Trump, who had no opposition for all practical purposes, Donald Trump is the winner in West Virginia. Donald Trump is the winner in Nebraska, as well.
He's getting increasingly close to that number, that official number, 1,237; 1,237 delegates that he needs to officially capture the republican presidential nomination.
Bernie Sanders is getting ready to speak in Salem, Oregon.
I want to go to Brianna Keilar. She's on the scene for us over there. Brianna, a pretty excited crowd getting ready to hear from the democratic senator.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: They're very enthusiastic. They were actually just yelling, "Bernie, Bernie, Bernie." And I'm looking through an open door to outside, Wolf, because while there are thousands of people here inside the auditorium at the Salem, Oregon, Armory, there's also a lot of people, perhaps thousands, in the overflow area outside.
This happens frequently at Bernie Sanders rallies. And they're waiting for something. There is a Bernie Sanders backdrop outside. It's not unusual for him to talk to the overflow crowd before coming in for the main event.
So, we'll be seeing if he's doing that and if that may delay him here, Wolf.
But what he's really hoping for is a strong finish here in the final contest, pushing towards June 7th, that big day with a series of contests, and then June 14th, the final time where voters will have their say in the Washington, D.C., primary.
He says he's going to push all the way to Philadelphia. All the way to the convention. But right now, Bernie Sanders is facing almost insurmountable odds against Hillary Clinton. And he's fighting as much for influence in the democratic platform as he is to win the nomination.
And you really can't deny the enthusiasm that he gets in some places. He thinks, and this is what I'm hearing from his aides, that he will be creating enthusiasm in these final states in a way that can only help the Democratic Party, and that is the argument that he and others around here were making, for his case to stay in.
BLITZER: And what is so impressive with that crowd, so must have of those other crowds, so many young people there are getting ready to hear and cheer for Bernie Sanders.
We're going to have live coverage of that coming up. I'm anxious; does he focus his attention on Hillary Clinton or, for that matter, Donald Trump, Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Wolf, thanks very much. That's the question we'll turn to Paul and Van Fort to start off. I mean, you know, there is a traditional speech we have heard from Bernie Sanders on nights like this, usually goes for 45 minutes or so longer, about, you know, the many of the issues, the important issues that he has run so well on. Is that what we hear from him tonight?
PAUL BEGALA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Right. President Reagan used to call it "the speech." He started in 1964 for Barry Goldwater and he retired from the president after two terms in '88, and basically gave the same speech when the government more freedom, America is great.
Bernie basically has the "the speech." And it begins with the economy is rigged by millionaires and billionaires against you. But the question is, will he turn his cannons on the plutocrat who represent, Mr. Trump, who represents the billionaire class, or on his opponent.
COOPER: And there's the candidate and his wife, Jane, on stage, getting a rapturous response. Bernie Sanders on this, a very big night for him winning the State of Virginia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: West Virginia.
COOPER: West Virginia, sorry.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So many people, this is their first campaign ever. Don't forget, a lot of old people, so many young people.
COOPER: Let's listen into Bernie Sanders.
(CROWD CHEERING)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you! Thank you, Salem.
(APPLAUSE)
Hello!
(CROWD CHEERING)
Thank you! Salem, thank you!
(CROWD CHEERING)
And it sure sounds like Salem, Oregon, is ready for the political revolution!
(CROWD CHEERING)
This is a great turnout and I want to thank all of you for being here. Let me begin by giving you all some pretty good news.
(CROWD CHEERING)
Last week -- last week, we won a really great victory in Indiana.
[22:05:03] (CROWD CHEERING)
And tonight, it appears that we won a big, big victory in West Virginia.
(CROWD CHEERING)
And with your help, we're going to win in Oregon next week!
(CROWD CHEERING)
And I want to -- I want to take a moment to thank the people of West Virginia, for the tremendous victory, I think it ends up being a double-digit victory tonight.
(CROWD CHEERING)
And this is a state, West Virginia, where Hillary Clinton won by over 40 points against Barack Obama in 2008.
(CROWD CHEERING)
West Virginia is a working class state and like many other states in this country, including Oregon, working people are hurting.
And what the people of West Virginia said tonight, and I believe the people of Oregon and Kentucky will say next week is that we need an economy that works for all of us, not just the 1 percent.
(CROWD CHEERING)
The people of this country are sick and tired of working two or three jobs.
(CROWD CHEERING)
They are tired of working longer hours for lower wages.
(CROWD CHEERING)
They are worried to death about the future of their kids.
(CROWD CHEERING) And they do not want to see almost all new wealth and income going to the top 1 percent.
(CROWD CHEERING)
The people of West Virginia of Kentucky, of Oregon want an economy that works for all of us!
(CROWD CHEERING)
They want to have the United States join in every other major country and guarantee health care to all people as a right!
(CROWD CHEERING)
They want to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure and create 30 million jobs!
(CROWD CHEERING)
And the people of West Virginia and the people of Kentucky and the people of Oregon understand that in the year 2016, we have got to make public colleges and universities tuition free!
(CROWD CHEERING)
And at a time of massive income and wealth inequality, where the top one tenth of 1 percent now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent, the people of Oregon.
(CROWD BOOING)
The people of Oregon and Kentucky and West Virginia know that it is high time for the wealthy and large corporations to start paying their fair share of taxes.
(CROWD CHEERING)
[22:10:02] With our victory tonight in West Virginia, we have now won primaries and caucuses in 19 states.
(CROWD CHEERING)
And let me be as clear as I can be. We are in this campaign to win the democratic nomination!
(CROWD CHEERING)
And we are going to fight for every last vote in Oregon, Kentucky, California, the Dakotas.
(CROWD CHEERING)
Now, we fully acknowledge that we are good in arithmetic that we have an uphill climb ahead of us, but we are used to fighting uphill climbs. (CROWD CHEERING)
We have been fighting uphill from the first day of this campaign when people considered us a fringe candidacy.
(CROWD CHEERING)
And our message to the democratic delegates who will be assembling in Philadelphia is while we may have many disagreements with Secretary Clinton, there is one area we agree. And that is we must defeat Donald Trump.
(CROWD CHEERING)
And I am very happy to tell you, we will defeat Donald Trump.
(CROWD CHEERING)
And if you look over the last month or six weeks at every national poll, Bernie Sanders defeat Donald Trump by big numbers.
(CROWD CHEERING)
But it is not only national polls where we defeat Trump by bigger numbers than Secretary Clinton, it is state poll after poll after state poll.
(CROWD CHEERING)
Just in the last day -- just in the last day, two national polls have us beating Trump by bigger margins than Secretary Clinton. Four statewide polls.
(CROWD CHEERING)
In Pennsylvania, in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, and New Hampshire, in every one of those polls, we beat Trump or do better against Trump than does Secretary Clinton.
(CROWD CHEERING)
But the reason that our campaign is the strongest campaign against Trump is not just the polls. It is that our campaign is generating the energy and the enthusiasm that we need to have a large voter turnout in November.
(CROWD CHEERING)
Democrats and progressive win national elections when the voter turnout is high, when millions of people are prepared to stand up and fight back. That is what is our campaign is all about.
(CROWD CHEERING)
[22:14:52] I am very proud to tell you that taking on virtually the entire democratic establishment, senators and governors and members of Congress and mayors, despite all of that opposition, we have now received well over 45 percent of the pledged delegates.
(CROWD CHEERING)
And if we do well in the coming weeks in Oregon, in California, in New Jersey, in Kentucky and the other states, we still have that road to victory in winning the majority of pledged delegates.
(CROWD CHEERING)
Let me mention something else that doesn't get a lot of attention, but that I am very, very proud of.
In virtually every primary and caucus, we win the significant majority of people, 45 years of age and younger.
(CROWD CHEERING)
Now, the truth is that we are going to work on this, we have to do better with older voters. And we are going to do better with older voters.
But when we win in state after state, a significant majority of younger voters, what that tells me, and I think it tells the American people, our vision of economic, social, racial, and environmental justice is the future of America.
(CROWD CHEERING)
(CROWD CHANTING)
Our vision -- our vision is the future of America and the future of the Democratic Party.
(CROWD CHEERING)
Now, Donald Trump is not...
(CROWD BOOING)
Donald Trump is not going to become president for a number of reasons.
(CROWD CHEERING)
And the major reason is that the American people understand that we cannot have a president who have insulted Latinos and Mexicans.
(CROWD CHEERING)
Who has insulted Muslims.
(CROWD CHEERING)
Who, every day is insulting women in one way or another.
(CROWD CHEERING)
Who has insulted veterans like John McCain and others.
(CROWD CHEERING)
Who has insulted African-Americans in a very profound way. People sometimes forget that before Mr. Trump was running for president, he was one of the leaders of the so-called 'birther' movement.
(CROWD BOOING)
And that movement was a very ugly effort to delegitimize the presidency of the first African-American president in our history.
(CROWD CHEERING)
Mr. Trump will not become president, because the American people understand that our strength is in our diversity.
(CROWD CHEERING)
That we are a great nation because we are black and white, and Latino and Asian American, and Native Americans!
[22:20:10] (CROWD CHEERING)
We are a great nation because we are gay and we are straight.
(CROWD CHEERING)
We are a great nation because we are women and men. And our greatness and our strength is when we come together as one proud people.
(CROWD CHEERING)
And the American people understand that bringing us together always Trumps dividing us up.
(CROWD CHEERING)
And the American people understand that we are great when we support each other.
(CROWD CHEERING)
When your family is hurting, my family has got to be there for you.
(CROWD CHEERING)
And when my family hurts, you have got to help us.
(CROWD CHEERING)
America is about not tolerating a situation in which children go hungry or veterans sleep out on the street.
(CROWD CHEERING)
And the American people understand that supporting each other always Trump's selfishness.
(CROWD CHEERING)
And the American people also understand a very profound lesson taught to us.
COOPER: Bernie Sanders talking in Salem, Oregon, tonight, after a big win in West Virginia.
Gloria Borger, going after Donald Trump, but also saying very clearly, he is in this to win it.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, he did. He said he's taking it all the way. He did pivot to the general election. Say we have to unify the party, because we have to take on -- we have to take on Trump. And went through chapter and verse about Donald Trump.
But what struck me was, I'm in it to win it. And that didn't sound like somebody who's kind of thinking in his own head, OK, I'll go through to California and maybe I'll go to the convention and, you know, cut a deal.
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, Anderson, one of the things that, this is my mind listening to this is, does he think that he's going to force his way on this ticket?
I mean, as improbable as that may seem, certainly to me, and I'm suspecting other people here, is he going to try to take all of this energy and enthusiasm.
COOPER: Paul, what do you think?
BEGALA: I don't think he's being that tactical, or frankly, that selfish. I think he's trying to take a candidacy and make it into a cause. And look, he can count.
This is exciting, he's great. He's 700 plus delegates behind. But he can win something very important. The conversation.
LORD: Yes.
BEGALA: The topics that are addressed, the way that the platform address it. And he, I believe, feels a burden to help move and lead this movement to defeat Trump. He went over...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: He is over exciting people who may not be excited by Hillary Clinton at his point.
BEGALA: He's exciting them to be against Trump.
BORGER: Yes.
JONES: There are people around Bernie and close to Bernie who honestly feel that she cannot defeat Trump. And that he can't. You have to keep that in mind when you listen to him. The math, sure.
The chances, low. But I do believe that people very close to him, their view is, because what they're seeing out there is so volcanic in terms of the demand for change that they're in touch with. They think she can't win.
And so, I think he actually -- in some ways, he may be being cute about it, I think he actually believes in his heart of hearts that only he can defeat Donald Trump.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Van, I don't think that the democratic intelligencia believe the numbers that I mentioned right before he begin speaking and that he brought up, which are those Quinnipiac numbers.
Because this is so misunderstood. The super delegates exist for one purpose, to pick winners, post-McGovern blowout, post dissatisfaction with Jimmy Carter getting the nomination.
And if they believe Quinnipiac and believe that Bernie was the guy who could run better against Donald Trump, you'd see more of them jumping ranks. They're not.
COOPER: John.
[22:24:59] JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They don't -- that they believe that if Bernie emerges the nominee, then you would get that he was a socialist.
LORD: Right.
BEGALA: Correct.
KING: That what he did -- that that has not been processed by voters and republicans, because they don't think he can win the nomination.
But Senator Sanders is -- God bless him. The Daytona 500 and it's worth 400 miles and he's allowed to finish the race and he's competitive. And I think he gets it. You heard him there, very candidly, the math is hard. I think I can do it. We're going to keep on doing it.
But, to Van's point, if you see Tad Devine, a Bernie Sanders strategist who was on our network, a veteran of campaigns going back 30 years. He sounds like, OK, I get the math. You know, we're going to have to somehow get, he's a democrat.
But if you listen to Jeff Weaver, the campaign manager, or Jane Sanders, the candidate's wife and his top adviser, they're much more of a pitchfork at the revolution...
LORD: Right.
JONES: Right.
KING: ... let's keep going, let's keep fighting. But I do think -- I don't -- I have no question. You heard Senator Sanders how passionate he was about stopping Donald Trump, no matter who wins the nomination. But getting his supporters there especially if he ends on this winning streak. If she wins the nomination...
(CROSSTALK)
LORD: What happens if they all show up in Philadelphia in march.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Why should he give up this platform for this message?
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right.
HENDERSON: I mean, Bernie Sanders in his message is more famous...
COOPER: Sure.
HENDERSON: ... and more prominent than he has ever been and he's been fighting this fight for much of his life.
CUPP: And you can tell it's deeply personnel. He is very connected to this message. That's why he says the same things over and over again because he feels deeply committed.
COOPER: And let's not forget, he's still winning states.
CUPP: Well, not to mention -- not to mention, I love the Daytona 500 reference as a Nascar fan. But also because Bernie knows, you just have to be leading one lap to win a race, the last one. He thinks he could get there.
COOPER: Coming up, what the Clinton camp is saying about her loss tonight and the road forward. We'll also tell you what our exit polls are revealing about a likely Clinton/Trump matchup. Their strengths and vulnerabilities.
Stay with us.
[22:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Bernie Sanders, the big winner in West Virginia tonight. He wins the democratic presidential primary, beating Hillary Clinton by about 14 points. Very impressive win for Bernie Sanders in West Virginia.
Donald Trump is the winner in West Virginia and Nebraska. He didn't have any opposition but he gets more delegates, getting increasingly close to that magic number of 1,237. Jake?
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Thanks, Wolf. Let me bring back our political director, David Chalian. David, earlier in the night, I asked you about what voters who voted in the democratic primary this evening, how they anticipate voting in the general election.
Because, obviously, one of the big concerns, among Clinton supporters and among Sanders supporters is whether or not any of their supporters will defect to the Republican Party come November. What do the exit polls show us?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Right. And obviously, we should state again, West Virginia is not going to be a general election battleground, but we did ask this, and we're going to be talk about these results a little differently than we've talked about other results.
We're going to look first at just Clinton voters tonight. Take a look at this; this is just among Clinton voters, not everyone that voted in the West Virginia primary. How would you vote November in a Clinton/Trump matchup? Eighty four percent of her voters would vote for her in November. Ten percent would defect to Trump. Five percent say they would vote neither way.
Now let's look at how Sanders voters answered the question about a Sanders/Trump potential general election matchup. Sanders win 62 percent of his voters tonight in November. But 34 percent, nearly a third, Jake, of Sanders voters tonight say they would actually vote for Donald Trump in November if the race was Trump versus sanders.
Three percent say neither. So, you know, we've had a lot of talk this election season about the appeal that Trump and Sanders both have and the kinds of messaging that they've had on trade, on economics, elsewhere, where they've tapped into some similar veins of support, and I think these numbers support that.
TAPPER: Well, first of all, earlier in the night, I think it was just the first few waves. I think the numbers were different for Clintons and Sanders, suggesting a bigger problem for Clinton than we see right now in the final numbers. Is that right?
CHALIAN: I think you're thinking of looking at overall, how the overall West Virginia electorate tonight would vote. That is true. What we've decided to look at is sort of their own supporters tonight and what would happen to them.
TAPPER: Yes, I was referring to own supporters, but maybe I looked at the wrong numbers. But, Dana, let's talk about this. Because obviously, this is potentially a big concern. As David notes, West Virginia generally falls into the republican column come November.
But if this is a harbinger of other concerns, which is the defection of Sanders supporters to Trump. Now we've talked about this because in some of the open primaries, we've seen people torn between - some voters torn between Trump and Sanders.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
TAPPER: Obviously, they disagree on a lot of things. But they agree on a few things. They agree on trade, agree on at least in terms of rhetoric, money and politics. And they are both not the pick of party insiders in their respective parties.
BASH: That's right. They have a lot of the same problems identified, which are big problems. But, as you said, quite different when it comes to the solutions.
So, for people who are just angry and they want a disrupter, you know, maybe they're interchangeable. But for people who are going to dig deep on how they're going to change things, quite different.
But on that note, I just want to bring to you some reporting from our Jeff Zeleny on how the Clinton campaign is going to deal with kind of this two-front war that they're now waging, continuing to try to put the democratic primary behind them.
He said that he's told by the Clinton campaign that they understand that in the next few weeks, they're going to have to continue to deal with Bernie Sanders. So much so that they're going to focus on two states, primary states, that are on June 7th, New Jersey and California.
Even he's reporting that they plan to advertise and campaign there as they pivot towards Donald Trump. That's not easy.
Now ironically, it could be easier if they're going to kind of try to appeal to similar voters, if there is some crossover between Sanders and Trump.
[22:35:06] But it is still not easy, especially given the fact that, yes, there's a lot of divide and division in the Republican Party. But for the most part, they're getting ready for a general election and Hillary Clinton's got to spend the next month, you know, kind of again, waging this two-front war.
TAPPER: Yes. And also they have to look at these polls of the Clinton campaign, Anderson, and wonder what else they need to do to win over Sanders supporters for November.
Is this just West Virginia specific, or part of a trend nationally that could be a problem in places like neighboring Ohio.
COOPER: And how hard does Bernie Sanders continue to go at Hillary Clinton as opposed to at Donald Trump, as we saw him do really tonight. A lot to talk about with our panel. What does that mean for Hillary Clinton moving forward and to have essentially a two-front battle?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Well, a two-front battle could be really difficult. I saw tonight something that publicly called on Senator Sanders to do. He's in a position of enormous power. He can either force Trump to fight a two-front war against Hillary and Bernie or Hillary to fight a two- front war against Trump and Bernie. Tonight he certainly showed he wanted to turn his guns on Donald Trump.
COOPER: You saw him pivoting tonight.
BEGALA: Absolutely. It doesn't mean he is never going to criticize her, but he showed something powerful tonight, like here's how you go after Donald Trump. COOPER: And he made that.
BEGALA: I hope Hillary is taking the notes.
COOPER: Bringing up John McCain, I thought was interesting, too.
BEGALA: Yes.
COOPER: He kind of reaching back.
BEGALA: He's an expert on veteran's issues. He is the ranking member on the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee. He was the chairman before that so he really knows who cares about veterans. When he sees Donald Trump insulting a war hero veteran, he's going to jump him. And it was music to my ears.
HENDERSON: Yes.
JONES: And I thought also, you know, he got to Trump early. I mean, there is no little way we stuff, let me say something about Wal-Mart, kind of like, you know, kind of a dog whistle against Hillary Clinton being on the Wal-Mart board.
A lot of stuff you saw him do last week or two weeks ago, that was gone. What you saw was full guns on Donald Trump and raising -- similar stuff you've been raising tonight, talking about the 'birtherism,' talking about the Latinos, talking about the Muslims.
Appealing to parts of the Obama coalition to stand together against Donald Trump.
COOPER: Still ahead, as both parties pivot towards the general election, I'm goping to show you how a likely Trump/Clinton contest could play out in the fight for electoral votes, the race to 270.
We'll be right back.
[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. A lot of focus right now on the Electoral College. In November, the road to 270 electoral votes. John King is here at the magic wall. It's a very, very delicate road, shall we say.
KING: It is. And you just heard Bernie Sanders making the case, in the polls, he's even more competitive against Donald Trump than Hillary Clinton. Well, he's right about that.
Whether you're Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton, if you're the democrats, first you start by looking at this map and Donald Trump for that matter. This is Obama versus Romney. The re-election campaign in 2012.
Well, I want to focus on this instead. This is our CNN 2016 battleground map, and you see the yellow states, those are states that we have by consensus here determined are toss-up assets. If you see like a light blue state like Michigan, that means we lean it blue. Pennsylvania is in that category.
You see a light red state here, Georgia, we're leaning it red. Arizona is the same thing.
Now if you're a republican in Arizona or Georgia, you're saying, you're crazy, those are solid red states. If you are a democrat in Michigan or Pennsylvania you are saying you're crazy, those are solid blue states.
But we just -- given Trump's appeal, given the demographics and the given the possibility of Latino vote here, higher African-American vote here, this is the way we start the map.
So, if you're inside the Trump campaign, the Clinton campaign, or for that matter the Sanders' campaign, if you can pull off the miracle, one thing democrats say is we don't think so. This one probably going to go to them. That's what they think.
Because of this Latino vote, Trump's issues, they think they get that one. Also inside the democratic they would say, Wisconsin, we're going to get back. If on our battleground map, if democrats could hold Nevada -- Nevada -- excuse me, and hld Wisconsin, then if you're Secretary Clinton or Bernie Sanders, Florida would give you over the top.
That's why this map is so competitive, so hard. The hill is steeper, if you will, given the last two elections for republicans. If Donald Trump could hold Florida, that makes it more interesting map, but then Donald Trump has to go in -- well, let's start over this way.
Donald Trump would have to win Ohio. He would have to win North Carolina, which Romney carried in 2012 after Obama carried in 2008.
So, where are we now? I didn't do that in purpose, we're at a tie, 253 to 253. This is how a competitive election could play out. So, where does the State of Virginia go.
One of the classic swing states in American politics has been trending blue in recent years. If the democrats can hold that, now you're up to 266. Pick one and you get to the finish line. So, can Donald Trump hold Iowa?
George Bush had some success. Barack Obama won it twice. If Trump could somehow take Iowa, then there you are, 266 and 259, and we come down to two smaller states.
Now the democrats will tell you, they believe Colorado is coming their way. Traditionally been a battleground state. The Denver suburbs, the Latino vote could be key. This could come down here or could come down here.
What if Donald Trump could win New Hampshire? And you're at 266, 263. Again, it's a hypothetical conversation. But, here, Colorado in these circumstances decides the presidency.
And so, it's a very -- this is one hypothetical. You could do thousands of these as you play them out. But if you're inside the campaigns right now, if you're in the Trump campaign, you're starting by looking here.
You know you need to do -- you need to do better business up here in the rust belt. If Donald Trump can change, for example, the State of Michigan, if he can make that red, it helps his odds. If he can make Pennsylvania red it helps his odds.
So, a lot of places here. Secretary Clinton thinks she can play as well. Bernie Sanders, just noting he thinks he is stronger now. Some democrats are dubious it would play out that way.
But inside the campaigns now in May, especially in the Trump campaign, because he has it locked up, this is what he is studying. Where am I strongest, what are my demographics, what have I learned in the primaries that I now want to test in a general election atmosphere?
And if you're the democratic campaign. And the Clinton campaign, she was campaigning in Virginia the other day. That election was a long time ago. They think she's going to be the nominee. They're starting to move around this map as well, not only state by state, but sometimes where you are in a state, what issue you're talking about is appealing to a demographic.
BLITZER: From Hillary Clinton's standpoint, since the democrats won the presidency the last two times, does she play defense or go on offense?
KING: Well, she just essentially it's depends on how you are going to look at. She can go on offense, meaning, call Donald Trump a bully, call Donald Trump demeaning to women, but that's on offense, right? Because you're defending the Pennsylvania suburbs. You're defending the Philadelphia suburbs, the Cleveland suburbs, and you're trying to get suburban women.
[22:45:01] You're trying to compete again in North Carolina. You're trying to keep Virginia by winning suburban women just outside of Washington, D.C. So, she's on offense on issues, she's on defense when it comes to protecting this map.
That's how the Clinton campaign looks at it. If you start with the fact that President Obama won 332 electoral votes last time, after winning a higher number in 2008, if you're the democrats, you think, you don't have to protect it all.
but you start looking at this map and you think, protect 270, try to protect 300. That's why the democrats start, in the old days if you caught, they're on the high ground.
And Donald Trump, it's a steep climb. Because he has to change some states that have gone blue for a long time, starting with Ohio, which is a traditional swing state, but he has to change some states that voted blue for a long time since the late 1980s to get there. Impossible? No. Steep climb? Absolutely.
BLITZER: As he says he can do it. He keeps saying in last few days repeatedly.
Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: Yes, Wolf. Thanks. Let's continue to talk with our panel. We were talking about kind of a two-front war that Hillary Clinton is going to be needing to fight in the days and weeks ahead.
BORGER: Yes. She does. And, you know, I've been communicating with someone in the Clinton campaign who reminds me and we've been talking about this over the last month. That, of course, Barack Obama, you know, competed against Hillary Clinton until June and still managed to win.
And John McCain, who lost, had it all locked up in March. And still lost. So, they're saying, you know, it doesn't really -- it's not really indicative of -- that's their story and they're sticking to it.
COOPER: Right. We've got to have a quick break. We're going to have more in just a moment. Donald Trump turning to social media again to launch a new front against Hillary Clinton and her judgment. That's after the break.
[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: And welcome back to what has been a very exciting night in the West Virginia primary, a big victory there, obviously, for Bernie Sanders, and of course, for Donald Trump.
But that, of course -- well, no big surprise there. But again, we were talking about this sort of two-front battle for Hillary Clinton moving forward.
HENDERSON: You know, I think if the Sanders that showed up tonight is the Sanders that the Clinton campaign sees going forward, then this is good for the Clinton campaign and it's good for the democrats.
Sanders has always been making that argument, but I think tonight in going after Donald Trump, particularly with this line, which was a new line, I'm told, we are a great nation, because we are gay and straight, we are a great nation because we are women and men.
That of course, is a critique of Donald Trump's idea that we have to make, you know, the country great again. So, I think we'll have to see if he sticks on this message or if he's always in the middle of that battle that's waging between the weaver side and the...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Yes. Because essentially, as someone said earlier, that is making Donald Trump trying to fight a two-front war.
KING: Well, the questions is, if we get towards the general election and if Senator Sanders -- let's assume Senator Sanders supporters, all right, let's assume Senator Sanders says his path is narrowed. Let's assume that Hillary Clinton is the nominee. Senator Sanders is fully on board if you listen to that speech tonight about "we must defeat Donald Trump."
Both Secretary Clinton and Senator Sanders are going to have to work on Senator Sanders supporters who are very raw and who are winning.
LORD: Yes.
KING: And they're mad at me tonight on Twitter because our delegate count is off by about 15 in the Associated Press delegate count, it still Bernie Sanders -- he still needs to win 66 percent.
COOPER: And you keep mentioning the pledge delegates.
KING: Yes. And they're back. But they energized. And God bless them for that. They care about their candidate, they see a path. The race is not over. He is mathematically not eliminated. He should compete.
However, I do think Sanders sending such a clear signal and starting to talk in ways, a, to Paul's point earlier, Hillary Clinton should take some notes.
HENDERSON: Yes.
KING: He delivers a very effective message in how he communicates, number one. But number two, it's proof to me that this Ryan meeting matters. And this does helps Trump tonight in the sense that, yes, there's no one else in the race. But he wins two overwhelmingly victories because the others guys dropped out.
He's closer to the magic number. He does have leverage when he goes into these meetings with the other republicans. They have serious, significant policy concerns.
But if you're the republicans, you know, maybe Van is right. We have a totally different model. Hillary Clinton counts on the Democratic Party and the organization, Donald Trump counts on the power of his personality.
But Elizabeth Warren is in, President Obama is in, Michelle Obama is in, Senator Sanders is sending a clear message.
HENDERSON: Joe Biden.
KING: He will be in. The democrats are doing all hands on deck here.
COOPER: So, it's a multi front order.
KING: If this is going to be a competitive election, the republicans are most likely going to need all hands on deck.
BORGER: And you know what helps Sanders is he -- I mean, Trump, is that he goes into that meeting on Thursday with these battleground polls in his back pocket.
KING: Right.
HENDERSON: That's right. BORGER: And he says, look, to your point, I'm pretty close.
COOPER: All right. Michael.
SMERCONISH: We know -- we know how Donald Trump is going to run against her. You see it again tonight, aggressively. In fact, that's probably an understatement.
I'm still not clear as to how, she, Secretary Clinton, will run against Donald Trump. We saw 19 playbooks that didn't worked against Trump in the primary.
COOPER: Right.
SMERCONISH: Now you've got a variety of people who are volunteering for the role of being attack dog. Elizabeth Warren seems like she's game. Bernie Sanders, this Bernie Sanders tonight seems like he's up to the task.
I happen to believe that this week, Donald Trump sought to neutralize Bill Clinton because of his effectiveness on the campaign trail by playing some of those cards that we all know are out there, trying to send him a message that says, hey, if you're going to be the guy seeking to take me on, here's what you got.
COOPER: Could there by a Bernie Sanders/Hillary Clinton ticket?
BEGALA: Certainly. There could be, but what I want to do is put a countdown clock up to see how long before Donald Trump personally Bernie Sanders.
BORGER: Sure. Right.
BEGALA: He'd been trying so hard to be nice to him. So, now Sanders unloaded the heavy armory on him, the heavy weaponry.
BORGER: Right.
BEGALA: And we've learned this this week from Elizabeth Warren. You can push Trump around really easily. He's not think skin. He has no skin.
BORGER: Yes, right.
BEGALA: She took a little shot at him on Twitter and, ah! He freaked out. OK. This is telling my side something, right? We could get under this guy's skin. And I think Bernie's speech tonight is going to really irritate Donald Trump.
LORD: Speaking of getting his -- under skin, I have to go to John's point about the Bernie Sanders supporters, I really do think that there could be a question mark here, not just in terms of whether they vote for Trump.
But former Governor Rendell, a former DNC chairman was quoted the other day as saying, "Well, they can come to Philadelphia, but they've got to behave." Well, there's calls out there for people to -- you know, en masse, a million march against the Democratic National Committee. You know, and...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Are those calls that you're making?
LORD: No, no, no! I assure you. I assure you. If I thought of it -- if I thought of it he could be making (Inaudible).
[22:55:01] It all occurs to me being old enough to remember Chicago in 1968.
HENDERSON: Yes.
LORD: You had a whole lot of supporters of Eugene McCarthy and the anti-war on show up and no one could control them. If that's what this turns out to be, and I don't know that we're going there, but it sounds to me like, you know, people want to march.
COOPER: Well, we've got to take a quick break. Our election coverage continues after this quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Our election coverage continues right now with Don Lemon in New York.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Thank you very much, Wolf.
This is a special CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
Our breaking news, Donald Trump, the GOP last man standing, wins West Virginia and Nebraska as he prepares for his trip to Capitol Hill on Thursday.
Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders rallies a cheering crowd after a surging pass over Hillary Clinton to win the West Virginia primary in a very hard-fought race.
Let's listen to Sanders just moments ago in Oregon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: Let me be as clear as I can be. We are in this campaign to win the democratic nomination!
[23:00:00] (CROWD CHEERING)
And we are going to fight for every last vote in Oregon...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
