Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Refuses to Release Tax Returns; Will Ryan Support Trump?. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired May 11, 2016 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:03]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SADIQ KHAN, MAYOR OF LONDON: I think, you know, you have got a choice when it comes to these elections in November. You have got a choice of hope over fear.

You have got a choice of unity over division. You have got a choice of somebody who is trying to divide, not just your communities in America, but divide America from the rest of the world.

And I think that's, you know, not the America that I know and love. And so, of course, I will travel to America, but I'm hoping that he's not the guy that wins.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hour two. We continue on. Thanks for being with me. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

In less than 24 hours, a meeting that could shape the future of the Republican Party, the presumed Republican nominee for president, Donald Trump, set to sit down with House Speaker Paul Ryan, 9:00 sharp tomorrow morning, this after Speaker Ryan's bombshell last week right here live on CNN with Jake Tapper saying he was just -- quote -- "not ready" to back Donald Trump.

And now here we are, the afternoon before the big evening. Speaker Ryan is feeling some pressure to support the billionaire who just won, by the way, primaries in West Virginia and Nebraska. Speaker Ryan met with several of his rank and file who are urging the speaker to support and endorse Mr. Trump.

The question is, will he heed their call? The House speaker today did disclose his prime goal with this one-on-one meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: To pretend we're unified as a party after coming through a very bruising primary, which just ended like a week ago, to pretend we're unified without actually unifying, then we go into the fall at half-strength.

This election is too important to go into an election at half- strength. That means we need a real unification of our party, which, you know, look, after a tough primary, that's going to take some effort. We are committed to putting that effort in. I want to be a part of the unifying process so that we're at full strength this fall, so that we can win this election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

a Here with me now, CNN senior political reporter breaking all kinds of news there on the Hill, Manu Raju.

Manu Raju, good to see you.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Talk to me about a little bit more about this House Republican meeting today with Speaker Ryan. What exactly happened?

RAJU: Well, remember, this is the first time that House Republicans have met with Paul Ryan since Donald Trump has become the presumptive nominee and since Paul Ryan made those rather surprising remarks last week.

And Ryan tried to make the case that he made publicly as well, that the party is going to be unified heading into the fall. This is a process he, kept telling them, to begin a dialogue between him and Trump and the party at large to figure out a way forward and making sure the party is on the same page in presenting a united front against Hillary Clinton.

Now, I can tell you, Brooke, I talked to a number of House Republicans after and before the meeting, and a lot of them said the reason -- one reason why we're not united is because the House speaker has not endorsed Donald Trump.

Mark Amodei is one of them and here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARK AMODEI (R), NEVADA: I find it interesting the statements made on CNN, this is -- it's Donald Trump's job to unify the party, and I'm like, Mr. Speaker, you're arguably the highest-ranking elected Republican elected official in the nation. What is your job with respect to unity?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So, now, I asked Speaker Ryan about that. Are you making it harder to unify the party?

And he said, look, I want to have real unification, not pretend unification. And that means talking about shared conservative values and principles, and also a very important thing for Paul Ryan, making sure Trump knows how important it is to retain the House Republican majority, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Manu Raju, thank you for teeing all this up. So, that's one piece of really significant information today. Also, Donald Trump may become the first presidential nominee in 40 years not to disclose his tax returns before the general election. He talked to the Associated Press, told them he would not release his returns while the IRS is auditing him. It's highly unlikely he will release anything before Election Day this coming November 18.

Also, let's be clear, the IRS has told CNN nothing, nothing prevents a taxpayer from releasing a return, so Trump's not under any kind of legal obligation to keep these returns private. Trump sees no urgency, saying to the Associated Press -- quote -- "There's nothing to learn from them."

And moments ago, on the trail, Hillary Clinton seized on Trump's resistance to release his tax returns.

Senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny was there to see it.

And, you know, you have been following Secretary Clinton just held that event in Blackwood, New Jersey. Tell me about this exchange.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, Hillary Clinton was talking about Donald Trump, certainly no mention of Bernie Sanders at all today, even though he won that West Virginia primary last night. But she was all focused on Donald Trump.

She was talking about his lack of plans. But she said he has one plan, his tax plan. She was starting to go through that. And one man in the audience screamed out, what about his tax returns? She picked up on that and ran with it. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That is no way to create good jobs with rising incomes for the vast majority of Americans, is it?

[15:05:03]

AUDIENCE: No!

CLINTON: And the gentleman who called out what about his tax plan, I hope you will keep asking that. And what about his taxes? So we will get around to that, too, because when you run for president, especially when you become the nominee, that is kind of expected.

My husband and I have released 33 years of tax returns. We have got eight years on our Web site right now. So you got to ask yourself, why doesn't he want to release them?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Secret!

CLINTON: Yes, well we're going to find out.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ZELENY: Donald Trump obviously talking a lot about the transparency on the Clinton side. Secretary Clinton returning that fire, calling out Donald Trump here.

Brooke, and we actually asked the Clinton campaign if she was planning on bringing that up. A spokesman said, no, she was not until that man in the audience shouted this out. You can be sure this is going to be one line of conversation in the months to come -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: It sure will. Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much in New Jersey.

Let's talk about all of this with my panel, CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash, senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson, and Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who supports Donald Trump, and CNN political commentator and syndicated talk radio host Mr. Ben Ferguson.

Welcome to all of you.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Afternoon.

BALDWIN: Good afternoon.

Dana Bash, to you first. I was talking to Ben Stein last hour. He wrote speeches for President Nixon. He pointed out to me the fact that Nixon was being audited and he released his tax returns. How unprecedented would this be?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he -- certainly, if Richard Nixon, who was reluctant to release much, if anything to the public, did it, it would be unusual, to say the very least.

But you know what? Just put it on the list of new and different things that we're seeing from this presidential campaign and from this particular campaign of Donald Trump. I actually think that ultimately we could and should see his tax returns. But it's a whole different kettle of fish, as they like to say.

And would not surprise me if somehow he were to kind of continue on without doing it. He will continue to get pressure, though, from the fourth estate and from, no question, the Democrats, who will remind him that Hillary Clinton has done it time and time again.

BALDWIN: So, Kris, you know, put all the questions to bed. Just why won't he? You can understand why people are wondering what he has to hide.

KRIS KOBACH, KANSAS SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I don't have inside information on the Trump campaign's thinking on the tax returns.

But it's a reasonable position to take to say, well, there's an audit going on. I would rather not do this during an audit. I expect that if he becomes president, we will see them eventually...

BALDWIN: No.

KOBACH: ... because the audit is not going to be happening forever.

(LAUGHTER)

KOBACH: But, you know, it's a -- the other factor is of course public pressure, as has already been stated. If the Trump campaign decides that the risk of something adverse happening during an audit is exceeded by the desire by the public, maybe reflected in polling, they may change their minds.

But at this point, there is no law requiring him to release them. I expect we will eventually see them, as soon as that audit is completed, though.

BALDWIN: Ben Ferguson, what do you think?

FERGUSON: Yes, look, Donald Trump has defied all political wisdom in this campaign. The only way we're going to get these is if Hillary Clinton makes this a center point of her campaign. And it seems very clear that this is not something that they are willing to make a center point, at least right now.

It took someone in the audience bringing it up for her to capitalize on it. I do believe that this is something that could be a way for her to score political points and say we need transparency. And if Donald Trump comes after her, saying that she's corrupt and the Clintons are corrupt, which I expect he will, this would be the first thing I would shoot back.

But she's going to have to hone in on this day after day after day after day to score it enough for Donald Trump to actually release these. If it's here and there, we will never seen Donald Trump's tax returns.

BALDWIN: But what about the fact, Nia, this could be a pot-kettle situation, because, you know, Trump keeps calling her crooked Hillary, slamming her on a lack of transparency? But then, you know, he's not he's releasing his tax returns, ergo, he's not being transparent.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, I think that that's right.

And if you remember back to 2012, he called on Mitt Romney to release his tax returns. And he also -- part of his most recent political identity from that campaign at least was calling on Obama to release his birth certificate. Obama eventually did that.

But then Donald Trump went a step further and offered up $5 million for Barack Obama to release his college records. I mean, he was essentially saying, Obama, why aren't you being more transparent and why aren't -- you know, the why isn't the public getting this information? He released a whole video about this. I don't have if you have that sound.

[15:10:07] BALDWIN: We do. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: President Obama is the least transparent president in the history of this country. There's never been anything like it. We know very little about our president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Nia, let me stop you.

Kris, I want you to respond. What do you say to that?

KOBACH: Well, you know, it's an interesting point. We have to remember there's different -- the information about President Obama was a qualification for office, right? So, that's why people were saying, the president has to be a natural-born citizen.

There's no statutory or constitutional requirement of releasing taxes. I think the focus was a little different.

BALDWIN: But what about the Hillary Clinton point?

KOBACH: But, yes, to be sure, he criticized Obama for not -- yes, the transparency point, and, you know, if she makes that an issue, then I think that will increase pressure on the Trump campaign to rethink.

But, again, they're going to be balancing the risks. Obviously, for some reason, they think the audit may be affected by releasing the information. And, remember, this is a little different than Richard Nixon.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But it's not. You talk to the IRS, and the IRS says you can release your taxes even if you're being audited.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go ahead.

KOBACH: If you or I -- if there's an audit of you or me, I assume our incomes are much lower than Donald Trump's. It's going to be a little different and much less complex than the auditing of someone who has got a billion dollars in assets.

I think that comparing Richard Nixon to Donald Trump might be a little bit inappropriate.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: No one is comparing. My point was just, if you're looking at a Richard Nixon -- and this was Ben Stein -- and he was holding back a little bit, but he released his tax return and he was being audited. That was just my point, that this is kind of unprecedented, not at all comparing.

KOBACH: I'm just saying is, I'm a lawyer too, and there may be considerations they have as they're looking at the audit. It's hard for me to say without seeing from the inside what it is that the audit might somehow jeopardize or that release would jeopardize in the audit.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Let's move on. Let's move on. We will talk Trump and taxes, I'm sure, I'm sure, again.

But I want to move on to this meeting, right, because we could have huge headlines this time tomorrow out of this meeting between the speaker of the House of Representatives and between Donald Trump.

And, Dana, you I think pointed out so well that there's all these expectations. These two don't even know each other that well. Cue the song "Getting to Know You, right?" But I also realize on top of that there is mega-pressure, as Manu was just laying out at the top of the hour, from Republicans, listen, we're looking for you, Speaker, to endorse this candidate so we can get behind all of this.

What are your expectations?

BASH: Yes. That's exactly right.

Manu just gave you a report from inside the House Republican meeting this morning. I am hearing similar things from Republicans where I am now at this point on the Senate side of the Capitol, Republicans who are definitely not at first blush Trump Republicans at all, but saying you know what, Trump is on to something. And we need to try to figure out how to get on board or at least work with him, again, people who I never thought in a million years would say such a thing.

So, you know, kind of going forward into tomorrow's meeting, I think that's very likely, almost surely the kind of thing we are going to hear after the meeting, that they had a productive meeting and that they do get to know each other, that they do actually have discussions in many cases for the very first time, which we can't underscore enough how unusual that is for the highest-ranking elected officials on the Republican side not really knowing the front-runner of their party, or now the nominee of their party.

BALDWIN: And let me follow up with you just quickly. Can you talk to me about what Leader Pelosi said today?

BASH: I had a chance to talk to her at a fiscal summit down the street. And she -- just on the Democratic side, she has not endorsed at all. I mean, she has been very reluctant to do so.

But she did go a little bit further when I asked her about it today. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: Let me just say that the next president, whoever she may be, will be one of the best- qualified people to enter the Oval Office by dint of knowledge, experience, vision, strategic thinking about how to get the job done.

(LAUGHTER)

PELOSI: And if people see that as the standard, then maybe they will measure other people by that standard as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: I heard that -- I heard that pronoun.

BASH: Yes. Exactly.

Back to Donald Trump, I also asked her, as somebody who she sort of famously said that she put cracks in the marble ceiling by being the first female House speaker, if she were running against Trump, how she would react saying that she's playing the female card.

Her advice to Hillary Clinton was, keep it up here. Don't -- these are her words, not mine -- don't stoop to his level and just stay on the policy issues. It was interesting to hear that from her.

[15:15:00]

BALDWIN: We will look for more of that interview, I'm sure, later today.

For now, Dana and Nia and Kris and Ben, thank you all. Great chat. We will do it again.

Meantime, Donald Trump, have you heard, has a new nickname for Bernie Sanders now. You will hear that and why Mr. Trump says maybe it's time he focuses on Senator Sanders, instead of Secretary Clinton.

Plus, sex, wild nights, the love life of Donald Trump -- why the interviews he did with Howard Stern are now colliding with his run for the White House.

And breaking news today in the shooting death of an unarmed black man -- the former police officer charged with his murder is now facing new charges. We will talk live with Walter Scott's family and get their reaction.

You're watching CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Hillary Clinton cannot singularly focus on defeating Donald Trump just yet after her primary loss in West Virginia. She's still fighting the good fight against her Democratic rival, Bernie Sanders.

[15:20:10] And it's that primary fight within her own party that may be pushing

Secretary Clinton to the left. At a campaign stop, she took an unprecedented step in health care. She suggested allowing people in their 50s buy into Medicare, the federal health care plan for seniors 65 and older.

Let's let that springboard in conversation with "The Atlantic"'s political writer Molly Ball and political commentator Bob Beckel, a Democratic strategist.

So, welcome to both of you.

BOB BECKEL, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Thank you.

MOLLY BALL, "THE ATLANTIC": Great to be here.

BALDWIN: Molly, to you, first.

You know, first, I mentioned the West Virginia wins. Let's just acknowledge that. He's now up to 19 primary states winning totals, slated to win the majority of the last few primaries in the season. He does lag behind her despite those wins in terms of delegates. In doing so, still, he has forced her to the left. How do you think that helps her or even hurts her when we're talking general election time?

BALL: Well, I want to say a couple things about this. First of all, I don't think anybody is forcing anybody. I think this is a choice that Hillary is making, and it's a very interesting choice, because given that it's almost mathematically impossible for Bernie Sanders to get the nomination at this point, she doesn't have to do this.

And so it's not clear -- and she's clearly also not winning over any of Bernie's supporters by making these moves on policy. It's very clear that the voters, the Democratic voters who are loyal to Bernie Sanders are going to continue to vote for him come hell or high water, no matter whether he has a chance or not.

It's kind of a mirror image of the Republican Party, where the Republican voters seem to be ahead of the Republican establishment in terms of coalescing around Donald Trump. On the Democratic side, the establishment knows this thing is over, but the voters are not on board with that. And so they are the ones prolonging this.

BALDWIN: And we will talk about exit polls in a second, but some of these folks have stated, when Sanders is eventually out, they -- some of these voters are saying they want Trump.

But, Bob, to you. I mean, Molly's right, it's a choice to move left. Do you think it's smart when she takes on Trump eventually?

BECKEL: Well, first of all, let's keep in mind that, first of all, those people -- nobody is going to vote for Trump unless they're out of their minds who are voting for Bernie Sanders.

But let's keep in mind, it may be that she's not being forced to the left right now. But, remember, and Bernie voters are not going to leave him and vote for her in the upcoming primaries and caucuses. But in the fall, when they do -- when she does need to attract those voters, it is going to be important for her to have a platform that is not exactly like Bernie's -- you can't do that -- but close.

And there are things she can point to. So, I think some of this is strategically pointed at the fall, not so much the primary season.

BALDWIN: OK. You may think that Bernie supporters would be nuts, your perspective, Mr. Beckel.

BECKEL: Of course it's my perspective. But they're still nuts.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: If they do decide to vote for Trump.

But let me just point to some numbers. We love these exit polls here. And exit polls show 62 percent of Sanders' primary voters would back him in the general over Trump. That's interesting, too. When you look at a hypothetical, Sanders is stronger.

BECKEL: Yes. Yes, that's correct. But that doesn't -- these polls at this stage of the game are so meaningless.

I have been through eight -- seven presidential races. And you always find in a tight primary race for the nomination, the supporters of the person who is in second place say I'm not going to vote for the front- runner. I'm just not going to do it. And then eventually they come around.

You know why they're going to come around? It's one simple word, Trump. That will be the most -- the best organizing tool the Democrats have ever had.

BALDWIN: What about, you know, we have heard about lying Ted and crooked Hillary and now, Molly, crazy Bernie exists in the Trump world. Right? So, he's talking about crazy Bernie.

And when we heard from Senator Sanders last night in his rally in Oregon, instead of taking on Hillary Clinton, he talked about Trump. Here he was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (VT-I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We cannot have a president who has insulted Latino and Mexicans, who has insulted Muslims, who every day is insulting women in one way or another.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

SANDERS: And the American people understand that bringing us together always trumps dividing us up.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: So, you know, Molly, I mentioned a second ago that in a hypothetical, Sanders actually fairs stronger against Trump than Secretary Clinton. And Donald Trump was asked about this recently.

And he said, well, listen, I haven't just really levied any attacks, I'm paraphrasing, any attacks against him.

[15:25:01]

What do you make of that and also is there any sort of observation or learning moment for the Hillary Clinton camp?

BALL: I think it's actually really interesting that you have Trump there saying exactly what the Clinton people will tell you. They get very exasperated by this talking point you hear from Bernie all the time, which is actually quite true and robust, that Bernie does better in these general election matchups against Trump than Hillary Clinton does.

And the Clinton people firmly believe that this is only because Bernie hasn't been subject to the same kind of public scrutiny, doesn't have the name I.D. she does. Now, that may or may not be true. It may also be the case that voters are looking for more of a change candidate than Hillary Clinton represents and that Bernie is more attractive in that regard.

I also think -- you were talking about Trump giving Bernie a nickname and seeking to spar with Bernie.

BALDWIN: Yes.

BALL: As erratic as Trump sometimes seems, I think he's doing something very clever is, which is...

BALDWIN: It's sticking.

BALL: ... elevating Bernie. Well, they always stick.

We know he's good at insults. They always stick. But he's cleverly elevating Bernie, because nothing is more infuriating to the Clinton camp than the reminder that they're still fighting an active primary and he's not. So, he's really trolling the Clinton people here, and I think he's doing it expertly well.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Bob, last word. Jump in.

BECKEL: The other thing is that Donald Trump calling anybody crazy is an oxymoron, if there ever was one.

But I think that, in the end, he's going to have to face Bernie Sanders not as the opponent, but on the campaign trail. I suspect Bernie Sanders is going to go out vigorously and oppose Donald Trump in the fall. And everything Trump says about him now is only going to reinforce his notion of getting out there and taking on Trump. BALDWIN: Bob Beckel, Molly Ball, thank you both so much.

BECKEL: You're welcome.

BALL: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, a white police officer, an unarmed black victim, and now federal charges in the death of Walter Scott after a traffic stop in South Carolina. We will talk to a member of Walter Scott's family about this tragedy.

Plus, Donald Trump fending off another controversy here. Hear what he said to shock jock Howard stern, conversations some say could cause trouble with a very key group of voters.

That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)