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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Trump Tax Returns; Trump and Ryan Meeting; Donors Not Rushing to Trump. Aired 12-12:30p ET

Aired May 11, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[12:00:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, a grand jury indicted Michael Slager in last year's shooting of Walter Scott. The charges also include unreasonable use of force and obstruction of justice.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: You'll remember the graphic video of the incident that surfaced last April. Slager was seen firing eight shots at the back of Walter Scott, who was running from a traffic stop. Slager's state trial is set to begin this fall. And with that, he gets a possible life sentence without parole. Much more on that to come.

Thanks so much for joining us AT THIS HOUR.

BERMAN: "Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

It took three months and about 20 victories, but Bernie Sanders now has something that he hasn't had before in his race for the Democratic nomination, open scorn and a schoolyard nickname as well from the presumptive Republican nominee, Donald Trump. The votes have barely been counted in yesterday's West Virginia and Nebraska primaries when Donald Trump declared, and I quote, "big wins in West Virginia and Nebraska. Get ready for November. Crooked Hillary, who is looking very bad against crazy Bernie, will lose."

Yes, did you catch it? Four minutes later, in case you didn't, "I don't want to hit crazy Bernie Sanders too hard yet because I love watching what he is doing to crooked Hillary. His time will come."

So it's pretty clear, right, "crazy Bernie," that's the new nickname. Bernie Sanders dominated the Democratic vote in West Virginia, but it still amounted to a net gain of just seven delegates over Hillary Clinton. And that doesn't do much to keep Hillary Clinton from the nomination finish line of 2,383. Regardless, it was Donald Trump, not Clinton, whom Sanders unloaded on in a rally last night in Oregon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is not going to become president for a number of reasons. And the major reason is that the American people understand that we cannot have a president who has insulted Latinos and Mexicans, who has insulted Muslims, who every day is insulting women in one way or another, who has insulted veterans like John McCain and others, who has insulted African-Americans in a very profound way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Again, Bernie Sanders pointing to these polls. We showed them to you yesterday, but take a closer look. They are indicating that he - he is the stronger Democrat in a general election match-up. But speaking this morning on Fox, Donald Trump had an answer for that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He does better against you head to head than Hillary does.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): Well, I know, but I've never hit him, don't forget.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

TRUMP: I haven't started on him. I haven't said anything about him. I would start - maybe I'm going to have to start based on - you know, I've just seen, he wins, wins, wins, and then everybody sits around the table saying he can't win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: All of this coming on the eve of a potentially game changing big meeting in Washington between Donald Trump, this man, the speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, who does not yet throw his support behind Donald Trump. The outcome of this meeting could determine whether the so-called GOP establishment will actually coalesce around its nominee or decide not to do that. Hard to even say the words, not to back their own nominee.

I want to talk about all of this and a lot more with CNN political commentator for - and Donald Trump supporter, Kayleigh McEnany, and Democratic strategist and Hillary Clinton supporter Robert Zimmerman, and CNN political commentator and progressive columnist and Bernie Sanders supporter, who's very happy about all of this, by the way, Sally Kohn. I am also throwing into the mix the girl down here, I feel like "The Brady Bunch" right now, but that is Cristina Alesci, CNN's Money correspondent.

Why would I have CNN's Money correspondent in this conversation? You're smiling because you know darn well why. All of a sudden another big, political storyline coming out today, Donald Trump's latest pronouncement of whether and when or not he's going to release those tax returns. He's now telling the "Associated Press," Cristina, that he may not release anything before the election. No tax returns. Nothing. And again he's using that IRS story. The IRS audit that he's under. He says his lawyers are saying you can't do it. Over the months, he has said a whole lot of things about the tax returns. Let's hear a sample.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you release tax returns thought? DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): I would

release tax returns and I'd also explain to people that as a person that's looking to make money, you know, I'm in the business of making money, until - until I do this. And if I won, I would make money for our country.

[12:05:03] My returns are extremely complex and I'll make a determination at the right time. I'm in no rush to do it.

TRUMP (on camera): I will absolutely give my returns, but I'm being audited now for two or three years, so I can't do it until the audit is finished.

Nobody would let you give them when they're - when you're under audit.

I'm always audited by the IRS, which I think is very unfair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, Cristina, he makes it as though this is not a big deal, but, listen, he would be the first nominee since 1976 to refuse to disclose anything. It is a big deal.

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: That's right. It's a big deal for that reason. It's also a big deal because there is a precedent for a nominee to release tax returns even when they are under audit in 1973. Richard Nixon did it. So there's really no excuse.

Also, despite what Donald Trump says, it will be interesting to see his tax returns. It gives you his taxable income. It tells you what his effective tax rate is. And, most importantly, it talks about his - it shows deductions, including charitable donations, which everybody is wondering about.

Now, Ashleigh, most pertinent to you and your viewers, there is nothing in terms of the law that stands in the way of a - of a nominee, you know, letting - letting his tax returns become public. There's no legal reason for Donald Trump to do this. And what he does here is open himself up to criticism, especially because his line of attack against Hillary has been that she's been untrustworthy, that she is untrustworthy. People are going to start asking the question, what does he have to hide if he's not willing to release those returns?

And let's just put this out there right now. His lawyers released a letter saying that he can't put out his tax returns because they're being audited for several years. Not only that, but the ones that are not open and subject to audit right now also can't be released because the current returns might impact prior returns. So he's taking all, any tax information, off the table.

BANFIELD: Any. Any.

ALESCI: Every bit of it off the table. BANFIELD: OK. Well, you know, just - just so, you know, we know we've

done our due diligence, we did contact a former IRS attorney who said the chances of a public release creating a problem vis-a-vis the audits are negligible. Not none, not none, but negligible. So there's that.

Cristina, hold your thought for a minute.

I'm just going to let this ruminate for a short beat. President Nixon, he released his - I can't believe I'm going here. OK, I just have to say it.

(CROSS TALK)

BANFIELD: President Nixon, 1973, released his tax returns while under audit. Do you have your Captain America shield out today, Kayleigh McEnany?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do.

BANFIELD: Go for it, because you're going to need it.

MCENANY: Look, I - I think he would actually be unwise to release his tax returns because I think Donald Trump was playing - paying very close attention in 2012 when Senator Harry Reid came out and said - accused Mitt Romney of not paying taxes for a number of years, goated Mitt Romney into releasing his tax returns, and then from that point on, Barack Obama sealed the narrative of Mitt Romney being in the 1 percent, Mitt Romney having a Swiss bank account, used those tax returns that they claim they needed for transparency purposes. They beat Mitt Romney over the head with it, waged class warfare and effectively painted him as Mr. One Percent.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Kayleigh -

MCENANY: Donald Trump would be very unwise to go down that same path.

ZIMMERMAN: Kayleigh, Donald Trump's in the 1 percent. That's not exactly breaking news. He brags about it. But of course he's not going to release his taxes, in the same way he's not a self-funder despite his claims that he was, in the same way that - the president - he said he had big news about the president's birth certificate that never existed. He still, to this day, won't acknowledge that the president's a citizen.

My point to you simply is, it's a con. It's a scam. That's all this is about. And it's not - it's hardly news that Donald Trump is lying about his taxes, the way he lied about the president's citizenship and the way for that matter he's -

BANFIELD: Let me ask -

MCENANY: But no one knows who's telling the truth about tax (INAUDIBLE) except Donald Trump.

ZIMMERMAN: He lied about self-funding. BANFIELD: The liability of it, and, Sally, jump in on this. I know this isn't really your area concerning you're the Bernie supporter, but it might end up being Bernie's next narrative. The amount of damage that not releasing the returns could actually do, as opposed to whatever's in the returns and whatever damage might be there, this is incredible campaign fodder for Hillary or Bernie.

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Right. I mean, and let's be clear, this is my area of interest because I'm an American and a voter and I care and I think that, you know, here's a crazy idea for us as citizens -

BANFIELD: I had you (INAUDIBLE) because I was going to ask you about crazy Bernie, but, you know, (INAUDIBLE) taxes.

KOHN: Right. But, you know, here's an idea is that we, as voters, should have information about our candidates and their positions and about our candidates in general when we're going to the polls.

And I'm sorry, Kayleigh, you know I love you, but this is a - is a tough position to take here, especially considering how much the Republicans are trying to hammer Hillary Clinton over things like Benghazi -

MCENANY: I would -

KOHN: Well, hang on a second. There's been 30,000 pages of documents. Something like 16 hearings. She's testified several times. I mean the amount of transparency -

[12:10:06] ZIMMERMAN: Thirty years of tax releases.

KOHN: And the Republicans - and the Republican Committee says, no, nothing there, but Republicans still bring it up to try and hit her. This is simple. You want to be transparent. This is a candidate who has built his whole candidacy on lies and misinformation and this is just one more example of him doing the same. We should be concerned.

BANFIELD: Let me - let me bring up a different - a different topic because we've got - as usual, it's, you know, early in the day and it means we're overloaded with topics. And one of them is a Reince Priebus tweet that came out. I'm going to read it for you. It's - and this is post-Bernie win last night. "It is nothing short of embarrassing that Hillary Clinton has now been defeated 20 times by a 74-year-old socialist from Vermont." If you think there's been 19 states, there have been, that 20th, Robert Zimmerman, is the overseas vote, which he also dominated.

ZIMMERMAN: Right.

BANFIELD: You can't deny - I think there's 46 in total. Let's put that into context.

ZIMMERMAN: Right. Right.

BANFIELD: Bernie's won 20. There have been 46. ZIMMERMAN: Right.

BANFIELD: Or 47 if you include the overseas votes in total.

ZIMMERMAN: Right.

BANFIELD: That's painful. I mean that's public shaming as well. And this is the last thing that Hillary Clinton needs, even though she probably knew it wasn't going to be great.

ZIMMERMAN: Well, it's important to remember that Hillary Clinton's gotten over 3 million more votes than Bernie Sanders and has also gotten over 276 elected delegates over Bernie Sanders too. So to put it in the proper perspective, I think very frankly, Sanders - the Senator Sanders candidacy has been great and the Democratic Party. The energy he's created has been important. And last night was particularly critical because he used his speech to declare victory to focus the Democratic Party on uniting behind Donald Trump.

KOHN: Yes.

ZIMMERMAN: And that's an important move forward in terms of building party momentum to win in November.

BANFIELD: While we have these graphics up -

KOHN: Can I just say that this is -

BANFIELD: While you're talking, I want to just make sure that everyone's aware of the latest Quinnipiac polling, because I think that's driving a lot of the conversation. We showed it to you first here yesterday, but it shows the head to head match-ups between a candidate Clinton against candidate Trump. If we could switch it over. There you go. And then a candidate Bernie Sanders. In the swing states, Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania. And effectively they show that Bernie, you can read all the numbers you want, but the summary is that Bernie wins all three in stronger numbers than Hillary wins all three.

Kayleigh McEnany, Donald Trump watches every ounce of television in every spare moment that he has, no matter where he is. And I guarantee he is seeing those numbers and that might be why we are seeing him say, I haven't even begun to knock Bernie yet, but maybe that's where i should go. What are we going to hear from Donald Trump about now what he calls crazy Bernie?

MCENANY: I think last night Bernie's speech, he went after Donald Trump forcefully. And if history's any indicator, if you go after Donald Trump, Donald Trump's not going to sit there and take it like many Republican candidates have in the past. He is going to fight back. But these numbers speak very well for Donald Trump. I think that's why you're seeing House members saying, Paul Ryan, come on. It's time to get behind this guy. This is someone who can win. I think these numbers are immensely helpful for Donald Trump.

BANFIELD: And, Sally, Bernie -

KOHN: Awesome (ph).

BANFIELD: Their - I mean it almost sounded like Bernie did the pivot. Bernie did the Hillary pivot. He barely mentioned her last night. He was all about Donald Trump in his speech last night.

KOHN: That Reince Priebus tweet is - is like the greatest thing in the universe, right? Like, there - it's embarrassing, like what's happening on the Democratic side of his campaign is embarrassing. Like, come on, nice attempt to distract there.

But what's happening on the Republican side is embarrassing. You actually have a - someone who is a presumptive nominee and the party is still fighting. And considering literally whole-hog abandoning their candidate for I think the first time in history.

On the Democratic side, what we have going on is different. You have a healthy Democratic debate over the long-term values, not only of the party and the country, and you can see - here's the great thing, for both Democrats in this country and for voters who are worried about a President Trump, is you can see that either of the Democratic candidates are in a position, a strong position, not only to win, but to actually help the majority of the Americans and to fulfill the promise of this country.

BANFIELD: So as I mentioned, we're - we are only midday and I have one of those tiny little sausage casings with about 50 pounds of sausage to fit into it in this program, so (INAUDIBLE).

KOHN: Well, thanks, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: I thought I'd describe it that way. I just feel like that. Thanks to all three of you. Do appreciate it.

ZIMMERMAN: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Oh, to be a fly on the wall as well for this big meeting tomorrow between Donald Trump and House Speaker Paul Ryan and the conservative leadership. The stakes are really high. New pressure now from inside the GOP for Ryan to get in line behind Donald Trump. But what about pressures from those who say, not so fast, it might not get us re-elected? Where is the schism and where is the balance, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:18:21] BANFIELD: House Speaker Paul Ryan is addressing the highly anticipated face to face or some would say face-off with the presumptive GOP nominee, Mr. Donald Trump. Make no mistakes here. The stakes could not be higher for this meeting. The speaker has been vocal in his discomfort about the nominee, presumptive nominee. But CNN is learning that there are some concerns within his party. Those members who want Speaker Ryan to go ahead and endorse their presumptive leader. They say the speaker's making it harder for the party to come together by withholding his support. And Speaker Ryan addressed the issue of unity just earlier this morning. Have a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: To pretend we're unified as a party after coming through a very bruising primary, which just ended like a week ago, to pretend we're unified without actually unifying, then we go into the fall at half strength. This election's too important to go into an election at half strength. That means we need a real unification of our party, which, you know, look, after a tough primary, that's going to take some effort. We are committed to putting that effort in. I want to be a part of that unifying process so that we're at full strength this fall so that we can win this election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Now, to some, that might sound like platitudes, but to Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, there's a lot of information in what went on this morning.

So, Manu, I want to get to the heart of what is going on with the people who are going to be in the meeting, Speaker Ryan, and Donald Trump and the campaign and what they're going head to head on. Speaker Ryan is talking about it being a process that's not going to happen right away, that tomorrow's just the beginning of a process and the process is a discussion of core GOP values. We all know that they don't agree on a lot of the core GOP values. So what's the process going to look like if they don't agree there?

[12:20:15] MANU RAJU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ryan was asked specifically about that at that press conference, Ashleigh, and he said that, look, we will have policy differences. That's not - that's common with what he said is a big tent Republican Party. But that he said they represent actually different wings of the Republican Party.

What he wants to get around is shared Republican and conservative values, meaning small government values, values of conservative leadership in Washington. You know, so, you know, you mentioned platitudes at the top. It is, in some ways, to get behind those basic core principles.

Now, what I heard from in that Republican meeting before that press conference, there were actually a lot of concerns from members of the House who felt they were caught by surprise by Paul Ryan's comments last week when he, of course, made that announcement on CNN that he would not support Donald Trump. And, in addition, a number of members said it's going to be harder to unite if the speaker of the House decides not to get behind Donald Trump. So there's facing a lot of pressure to eventually endorse, but it sounds like he won't endorse after tomorrow but they probably will say some nice things about each other after that meeting, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So, Paul Ryan had a phone call last night from Dr. Ben Carson, and I don't know how, you know, how he tried to assuage what the speaker's going to do or think or say to his fellow members, but Speaker Ryan has been very clear, Manu, that he's got 247 members to reelect. There are money issues involved. There's fundraising involved. There are these core principles that you talked about that are involved. And then there's just the sheer anger from a lot of the folks who feel they have been repeatedly and brutally dissed by this presumptive nominee. How do they get past that?

RAJU: It's really going to be challenging because, yes, as you - as you mentioned, the number one goal for House Speaker Paul Ryan is to remain House speaker. He is working incredibly hard to preserve the Republican majority. That means lots of fundraising. And he also, I think, wants to make clear to Donald Trump that the things that he says on the campaign trail, the vision that he espouses, will have a down ticket impact, will hurt his guys in reelection if he says very controversial things. I think that message will probably be delivered. And it's one reason why you see Paul Ryan wage this sort of parallel campaign to talk about things in a more optimistic light. Perhaps they can get together on the message. Maybe it will take more than one conversation, though, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: Ya think? Yes, it means your summer vacation's now gone.

RAJU: (INAUDIBLE).

BANFIELD: Manu Raju, thank you, sir. Nice to have you on.

RAJU: Thanks, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: So, unifying the party, this what Manu and I were just talking about, it is certainly a hurdle, but there is another big one that Donald Trump's going to have to overcome. Follow the money, folks, because he's going to have to ask for it. How is he going to win over the GOP's most powerful donors and then how is he going to share it with all those down ballot people that say they need it maybe more than he does? We've got that conversation coming next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:27:32] BANFIELD: Here is something you just don't hear very often, Donald Trump needs money. Of course, he's the guy who says all the time that he's self-funding and then he says it again at another rally, he's self-funding. He has said it at almost every rally. He says it almost as much as he says he's going to build a wall or you're fired. But things are very different now that he's the presumptive nominee and that there's a general election coming, because now you're talking billions, not millions.

Trump has reportedly spent about $40 million of his own money to watch his Republican competitors dry up and fall over one by one. But for the general, the money's totally different and so is the fight, because now we're talking about a billion and a half dollars. Somewhere around there. And that's the kind of money for which you need fundraising. He needs the help and that's a problem because many of the people who are capable of writing those big ticket checks are not particularly fond of one Donald J. Trump. MJ Lee covers politics for Money and for CNN. Max Dopanovich (ph) is a long-time Republican strategist and lobbyist and former advisor to Florida Governor Jeb Bush, who has written an open letter to fellow Republicans. I'm going to read some of it for you in just a moment.

But first, MJ. It almost seems as though the Trump campaign itself is aware that its brand is tricky. It's navigating its own brand with Republican donors. And even going so far as to brand a lot of the fundraising events as victory events -

MJ LEE, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Right.

BANFIELD: That will benefit the party as opposed to Donald Trump as a way to try to get that money in?

LEE: Yes, this is going to be a big shift that we're already seeing from Donald Trump as he transitions into becoming a general election candidate. Remember, he is about to go up against Hillary Clinton, who along with her husband, they have a big network of donors and supporters, that they've really been, you know, had relations with for decades now. So in order -

BANFIELD: Thirty-five years. Yes.

LEE: Exactly. And so in order to sort of match that and raise the hundreds of millions of dollars for the general election campaign to be competitive, Trump is going to have to start working that Rolodex and reaching out to donors. But, of course, that is very much in contrast to the kind of primary candidate that he has been all year long. He has been bashing donors. He has really branding himself as the anti-establishment candidate who wants to get money out of politics. And now, as he becomes the general election candidate, we're seeing him sort of resort to more traditional methods of fundraising -

BANFIELD: Yes.

LEE: Whether that's building a national finance team. And his advisors say that he is going to start calling people in his Rolodex because he, of course, is a familiar figure in the business world and he thinks that he can tap into that.

BANFIELD: He's got a good Rolodex, I'll give him that.

[12:30:01] OK, so, Mac, that brings me to you and to the letter that you wrote openly to Republicans, probably some of them in that Rolodex. I want to read for our viewers, if they didn't have a chance to read some of your pros.