Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Trump Denies Posing as Publicist; Transgender Bathroom Use. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired May 13, 2016 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00] FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): A lot of the groups that are opposed to Bashar al Assad, Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Fred Pleitgen in Damascus. Thank you very much.

That's it for me. The news continues next right here on CNN.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Pamela Brown, in for Brooke Baldwin. Nice to have you along with us on this Friday.

Well, there's some new problems surfacing for Donald Trump's campaign, one day after the presumed nominee met with top Republicans who are on the fence about whether to back him. We'll begin with problem number one, a recording from the 1990s that raises some questions about whether Trump may have posed as his own press spokesman. "The Washington Post" obtained recordings of phone interviews conducted early in Trump's real estate career and on separate occasions two alleged media reps named John Miller and John Barron speak on behalf of Trump. Now, in the exchange we're about to play for you, John Miller discusses his role within the Trump organization and Trump's relationship with then model Carla Bruni. The curious thing is, his voice is mighty familiar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is your position there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I'm sort of handling PR, because he gets so much of it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And, frankly, I mean, I could tell you off the record but until I get to know you and talk a little bit off the record I can tell you that he didn't care if he got bad PR until he got his divorce finished. So when he got a lot of bad financial stuff, he liked it because, you know, it was good, because he could get a divorce finished. Once his divorce is finished, if you noticed since then he's doing well financially and he's doing well in every other way. The licensing was five to nothing. And people were like how come all of a sudden he's doing so well? And then I guess Newsday about two weeks ago did a story on that. So I've sort of been put in here to handle, because I've never seen anybody get so many calls from the press.

She was going with Eric Clapton. And Eric Clapton introduced her to Mick Jagger. And then Mick Jagger started calling her, and she ended up going with Mick Jagger. And then she dropped Mick Jagger for Donald. And that's where it is right now. And, you know, then again, he's not making any commitment to Carla either. Just so you understand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And on the "Today" show, Trump said that was not his voice. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it you?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via telephone): No, I don't think it - I don't know anything about it. You're telling me about it for the first time and it doesn't sound like my voice at all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "The Post" says that you acknowledged a couple decades ago that, in fact, that was you but it was a joke.

TRUMP: I don't think it was me. It doesn't sound like me. I don't know even what they're talking about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All right, let's talk about this with CNN political director David Chalian.

David, whether it is him or not, what is the political implication here with something like this?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Listen, I don't think this in and of itself is real trouble for Donald Trump's campaign, but I do think it highlights some of the concern that you see in his party about him as the nominee just because it goes to the sort of unpredictable, untraditional nature of his candidacy. It has been widely reported before, Pamela, as you know, that he has tended to use these pseudonym and portray PR representatives of him. This is an ability to hear what may be him doing that on the tape, though he clearly denies that it's his voice.

I think this moment sort of brings to the forefront for voters just the clash that exists of sort of the '80s, '90s New York real estate billionaire impresario Donald Trump with presidential nominee Donald Trump and how they coincide.

BROWN: Right. And it makes you wonder how something like this could impact party leaders, like those he met with on The Hill yesterday, because isn't some of their concern that, you know, they're worried they're going to continue to be blindsided by certain things coming out about Trump or certain things he's going to say or, you know, actions, that kind of thing? CHALIAN: Exactly. This is exactly what gives some Republican leaders

pause. As you know, he is starting to get some Republican leaders sort of warming to his candidacy and the establishment seems to be slowly getting on board with the nature - with the notion of him as the party's nominee and the need to unify. But you are right, it is - it is the unpredictable nature of the Trump candidacy that is indeed the thing that gives these Republican leaders pause and this gets at just what can so easily be a distraction from the message that Republicans would like to drive every day against Hillary Clinton.

BROWN: And the interesting part, though, too, is on the flip side that unpredictability is what's so appealing to so many of his followers.

CHALIAN: Precisely.

BROWN: Something else that remains sort of hanging out there is this issue surrounding his tax returns. He basically says that he's not going to release those tax returns. How is the GOP responding to this?

CHALIAN: Well, I think this - this one is less about how Republicans are responding. I mean we know some of his Republican critics, like Mitt Romney, has sort of raised this issue as something he needs to deal with. But I think this is a broader issue for the general election in the fall and for Hillary Clinton because I think this is something that could continue to dog him if indeed he's not going to release his tax returns he cites because of these ongoing audits, this is something that the Clinton campaign and the Democrats can bring back day after day after day about sort of like what he's hiding and ask that question. They've begun to do so. And that is the kind of question that can dog him all the way through November. I'm not suggesting voters will make up their minds based on it, but, again, this is a distraction from what he'd rather be talking about.

[14:05:33] BROWN: All right, David Chalian, thanks so much for setting it up for us. We do appreciate it.

CHALIAN: Sure. No problem.

BROWN: And let's dig a little bit deeper with our political panel. CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash, radio and television host Gina Loudon, she's also a Trump supporter, and Jackie Kucinich, she is the Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast."

Thank you, ladies, for come on. A lot to discuss here on this Friday.

And, Gina, I'm going to start with you. Just your general action. What do you make of this recording?

GINA LOUDON, RADIO & TV HOST, TRUMP SUPPORTER: To me, personally, I just have to be honest, it didn't sound like him to me. You know, we hear his voice every single day all over media and it just didn't sound like him to me. But what I do think is significant is a 1980s tape of Hillary Clinton talking about a quote/unquote fascinating case where she defended a child rapist. This is in a conversation with Roy Reid (ph). People can Google that and then hear about it. And in hearing her voice, that does sound like her voice to me, I think you start to hold up old tape recordings of things that Donald's done and old tape recordings of things that Hillary has done and we do have a lot to talk about.

BROWN: Well, it was interesting, though, that point is Donald Trump said today that, look, why are you digging something up from 20 years ago? How's that relevant? So you think it's fair then to do that?

LOUDON: Well, yes, because he wasn't in public policy at that point. You know, this is that - it's not like he's had a career that affecting the lives of other people. It was his own private business more or less. Where we're talking about Hillary Clinton, she's had a public life most of her life and so I think that, you know, it's perhaps an unfair advantage honestly that Mr. Trump has over Hillary Clinton because she has had such a public life, she's more likely to be held accountable for it, like a Mitt Romney or like a Ted Cruz when you have a public life. But, nonetheless, it is one of the advantages of being an outsider for Donald Trump, at least in the minds of voters at this point.

BROWN: So then what's your view on this, Dana? Is it that he wants - wants it both ways here or that, look, he gets a pass, as she said, because he wasn't a public figure all this time? You know, he's criticizing the media for digging into 20 year old audio, yet he always goes after the Clintons for their past. What's your thoughts?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I don't think it's necessarily comparable to the Clintons. I think it is a reminder of something we really don't need to be reminded of, that Donald Trump is a very unconventional nominee because back in the '90s he was kind of Mr. Tabloid, whether he liked it or not, and that this - whether it's true or not, whether he was impersonating a, you know, fakes spokesman or not, this was where Donald Trump came from in our national media pop culture, frankly.

I think the bigger issue today is the fact that he said this morning that it is none of our business. He specifically responding to a question. But by saying to the questioner, it's none of his business, it means it's none of our business, what his tax rate is. That's a more, I think, pertinent question vis-a-vis his not just - not his abilities to be president, but questions about what he's worth and what he has done in his businesses and so on and so forth. So I think that's more recent and more relevant.

BROWN: Particularly for someone who has touted his business record -

BASH: Exactly.

BROWN: I think people would like to look at that.

Before I get to you, Jackie, I just want Gina to respond to that. Do you think he should release his tax returns?

LOUDON: You know, I think that the voters, again, are so - the people who are excited about a Donald Trump candidacy, they know he's rich. He's had 500 and some companies. There's no question about that. I think that the question in the minds of voters is - that's going to weigh more perhaps might be what he's going to do about their own taxes. I think people will want to know about his plan. Are their taxes going to be cut? Are small businesses burdens going to be released on them so that people can flourish in business again? I think those are the questions that are make or break for Donald Trump. I don't think his own taxes - we know he's rich. I don't think it's going to go much beyond that in the minds of voters except for those of us who really like to think about all of this in depth.

BROWN: All right. And speaking of plans, Jackie, it seems as though Trump might be shifting on the Muslim ban that he has proposed. Listen to the new line he's using.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (voice-over): Well, I'm not the president right now. So anything I suggest is really a suggestion. And if I were president, I'd put in legislation and do what I have to do.

I'm not softening my stance at all, but I'm always flexible on issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[14:10:00] BROWN: OK, so - so, flexible. Some may other - some others may say flip flopping, which would be a deal breaker for many presidential candidates, but not for Donald Trump it seems. But in your view, Jackie, is this another sign he wants to have some wriggle room with some of his more controversial proposals in the general where things - the dynamic changes?

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "THE DAILY BEAST": It seems that way. But, Pam, I have to be honest with you, he seems to be sort of - it depends on what day that we're talking about Donald Trump and where he stands on some of these issues. He says he needs wriggle room, and then he says, you know, but he's not changing his stance. He says but he might change his stance. And I think this goes to what some in the Republican establishment are worried about, that they really don't know where he's going to be day-to-day.

Now, when it comes to - I just have to respond when it comes to taxes. The reason - one of the reasons why knowing his tax rate is important because it comes to a basic fairness. Is he paying a fair share? And, you know, when it comes to that, I think voters do care. That was one of the issues of Mitt Romney, you'll remember. He got a lot of criticism for looking like he wasn't paying his fair share when it came to how much he was making versus, you know, how much he was paying back the government.

BROWN: And David Chalian made the case in the earlier segment that this is really going to give material to Hillary Clinton, Dana. But, then again, you have this candidate who seems bullet-proof. He's the Teflon candidate. How does Hillary Clinton hit back against a candidate like that for tax returns and other issues?

BASH: She's already started trying on tax returns. And I'm sure - you know, there's no question she's going continue to do so, particularly because she has been in public life, along with her husband, for decades and they have released their tax return, as has been their tradition and the norm. But, you know, he has been Teflon up until now. That has been with the electorate that goes to the polls in the primary season. He's definitely brought new voters in. It's not just kind of tried and true Republicans.

But, you know, it's going to be - it is still an open question. It's going to be one of the most fascinating thing that we're going to watch in this general election cycle is to see if he's going to be held to a more traditional standard for a presidential candidate, somebody who has a 50-50 chance of being the president of the United States and whether the voters are going to care. I mean we all held him to a standard, but the voters, you know, didn't care about a lot of things with Trump that they cared about with other candidates in recent history. We'll see if that happens in the general election.

BROWN: We sure will see. Dana, Gina, Jackie, thank you so much, ladies, do appreciate it.

LOUDON: Thank you.

KUCINICH: Thank you.

BROWN: And we have a quick programing note. Monday night, don't miss Anderson Cooper's exclusive interview with John Kasich. His first interview since leaving the race for the White House. Will he endorse Trump? Would he consider being his vice president? That's Monday night at 8:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

A bombshell move that has critics accusing President Obama of blackmail. The White House now telling states to allow transgendered kids to use whatever bathroom they want.

Plus, one former Hillary Clinton adviser says underestimate Trump at your own peril. Why his warning had Democrats concerned.

And, the tragic end to the life of a young man who fought to escape the violence in Chicago. The former prom king featured in a CNN series has been found. We'll hear from the principal who mentored him. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:17:28] BROWN: Welcome back. I'm Pamela Brown.

A student's very personal decision is at the heart of what has now become a very public battle. The Departments of Justice and Education just came out with a new directive on transgender kids and it says public schools should let them use the bathroom of the sex they identify with and if districts don't they risk losing federal funding or lawsuits. This comes in the wake of the controversial North Carolina law that requires people use the bathroom of the gender they were born with.

Well, opponents are slamming this new guidance as federal overreach. Today, Texas' lieutenant governor said some of the $10 billion federal his state gets for schools pays for free student lunches.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GOV. DAN PATRICK (R), TEXAS: He's taking money from the poorest of the poor. The president of the United States will be ending the free breakfast and free lunch program. We will not be blackmailed by the president's 30 pieces of silver. We will not sell out our children to the federal government. And the people of Texas and the legislature will find a way. Parents are going to look for private schools. Parents are not going to send their 14-year-old daughters into the shower or to the bathroom with 14-year-old boys. It's not going to happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: With me now to discuss, Laura Coates, a former federal prosecutor who was in the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department, and Steve Perry, a principal and the founder of the Capital Preparatory Magnet School.

Welcome. Thank you, both of you, for coming on to talk about this very important topic.

LAURA COATES, FORMER ATTORNEY, JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S CIVIL RIGHTS DIVISION: Thank you.

STEVE PERRY, PRINCIPAL & FOUNDER, CAPITAL PREDATORY MAGNET SCHOOL: Thank you.

BROWN: Steve, I want to start with you to get your perspective just on the ground level. In your view, does this new guidance help or hurt a school district?

PERRY: It helps. We have to let these children live. They have enough challenges as it is and we can only serve to complicate them when the adults get involved. This is not the children. The children actually have a keen understanding. We've had this happen in our school and we've had to find a solution to how you would engage a child who identifies as transgender. And we did it without issue, without issue.

BROWN: So then let me - do you see the other side, though, because the other side argues that things get more complicated when you bring the government in to decide what's best for people's children. Do you see their side, what we just heard from the lieutenant governor?

PERRY: I do not. What the president is saying is, follow the law. And that's what the government does.

BROWN: OK.

PERRY: We elect a government to create laws and they did that. And - and so, no, I don't see it as an overreach in the least.

BROWN: So let's talk about the law, Laura. You are the perfect person for this. So the Education and Justice Departments say that Title IX protects gender identity, but Title IX doesn't actually include the term transgender. So how does this play into this situation from a legal standpoint? Does it come down to whether gender is what you were born with, what you were identified as at birth, or what you think you are?

[14:20:19] COATES: Well, that's a great point, Pam. And what it comes down to is really a separation of powers and how do we interpret a law when it's silent on this issue. Title IX and Title VII talk about protected classes, and those classes include sex or gender. It does not say gender identity. Now, the federal government would like to believe that that interpretation of what gender is would also include gender identity, meaning that you do not believe that you - your external genitalia matches who you identify with. But people like North Carolina and other states are saying, look, that may be in fact the case, but Congress was silent on the issue, either because it did not contemplate this being an issue of gender identity, or because they intentionally left it out. But either way, the federal government is being accused right now and I think it's a little bit of a fair criticism of them, that they're being accused of usurping the role of Congress when they have decided to interpret an otherwise ambiguous or silent law to their particular viewpoints. And, frankly, when the law is silent or doesn't contemplate the scenario, that's when the courts and Congress are at their best in terms of fulfilling their roles.

BROWN: And it will be no surprise if this makes it all the way up the chain to the Supreme Court.

Steve, before I go on with the legal issues, just curious, you know, this is such a small fraction of the population, these transgendered students. Have you ever personally dealt with this before, this type of situation? Oh, it looks like we lost Steve.

OK, so, Laura, to you now. Do schools have bylaws about this, schools requiring students to use facilities that match their gender at birth?

COATES: Well, some schools do have this issue because they've contemplated that with all that's going on in the media and the press right now about this being a flagged issue. But reality, the guidelines that were issued by the federal government are really voluntarily guidelines, they're not yet the federal law that these schools have to follow. And so there is some room for these schools to be able to - to go around these guidelines.

However, as the - (INAUDIBLE) we're talking about, federal funding is, in fact, at stake here. Schools could really risk the use or access to funding from the federal government if they choose to violate civil rights laws. But the Obama administration's already made clear, and I think it's the right thing to do, that these federal fundings will not be revoked until this has kind of run its course in the courts. And the reason for that is because there is not clear guidance from Congress yet on how to act. And the Obama administration and Loretta Lynch and the Department of Justice all fall under the executive branch have decided to interpret this law, which I think is probably a correct interpretation based on the spirit of the law when it came to Title VII and Title IX about gender identity and gender being very similar concepts. But until they've spoken, these laws and guide - these guidelines are really without much teeth and the schools know it.

BROWN: Well, just quickly on that. Is there any precedent, though, or any other previous cases where it was interpreted the same way that the Obama administration is interpreting it in this case?

COATES: Well, other schools have looked at this issue and said, yes, we interpret gender identity be the same thing as gender. You have schools in North Carolina, which is one of the hotbed issues right now, hotbed locations that say, listen, we believe that this may in fact be the spirit of the law and we're going to allow people to have open access and to choose their particular bathroom of choice, precisely because to do the opposite does violate their civil rights by outing people and making them uncomfortable or by offering separate but really equal and unequal facilities, which is not what the civil rights era was about. And so it is an issue. It's come up before. It will continue to rear its head until Congress speaks.

BROWN: All right, Laura Coates and Steve Perry, I know we lost him, but thank you. Really, really appreciate you coming on this show.

COATES: Thank you, Pam.

And up next on this Friday, Hillary Clinton's former press secretary is sounding the alarm. Underestimate Donald Trump at your own peril. Are Democrats taking Trump too lightly? Carl Bernstein weighs in, up next.

Also, the security lines that have fliers furious. You know what I'm talking about, traveler patience reaching a breaking point and now a computer glitch grounding 3,000 bags far from their destinations. What's being done to fix this all? We're going to have a live report right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:29:06] BROWN: Well, Donald Trump can win the general election and win it easily. This is not a prediction by the Trump camp, but a warning from Hillary Clinton's own former press secretary Jay Carson writing this on his Instagram. "I hear far too many of my liberal friends calling him a joke and acting like the general election is in the bag, which is nuts because he's dangerous and he has a path to victory."

Joining me now, Carl Bernstein, CNN political commentator and author of "A Woman in Charge."

Carl, at the same time you've got the similar warning from John Boehner, as well as David Plouffe, who served as a senior adviser for President Obama. Is this a real and valid fear among Democrats who support Clinton?

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, and it's not just Democrats who support Hillary Clinton, it's her closest friends and people in her campaign who see the campaign in a kind of spiral. There's a long way to go. But a kind of spiral that they can't quite get hold of to get her and the campaign righted. And part of the problem is they know that their candidate is not a good candidate in terms of the