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Brazil's Interim President Announces Cabinet; Questions of Saudi Complicity in 9/11 Events; Latest on the Brussles Terror Attack Investigation; Race Relations in America. Aired Midnight-1a ET

Aired May 13, 2016 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[00:00:11] JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: This is "CNN Newsroom" live from Los Angeles; ahead this hour:

ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: Regime change in Brazil with the President Dilma Rousseff suspended from office, protesters take to the streets.

VAUSE: Who's the boss? Donald Trump heads to Capitol Hill to make peace with Republican Party leaders. the day ends with smiles but no endorsement from the House Speaker, Paul Ryan.

SESAY: And Grammy winner Ben Harper joins us to talk about his latest album which takes on police brutality and race relations in America.

["Call It What It Is" Plays]

VAUSE: Ben Harper coming up later this hour. great to have you with us, everybody; I'm John Vause.

SESAY: And I'm Isha Sesay; "Newsroom" L.A. starts right now. Brazil's new interim president is facing a tough road ahead as he navigates the country through the upcoming Olympics and devastating Zika virus; and now Michel Temer is facing protests too.

VAUSE: Demonstrators set fire to the streets of Sao Paulo on Thursday after the senate voted to begin an impeachment trial of President Dilma Rousseff. She's now suspended, accused of breaking budget laws.

SESAY: Well, Ms. Rousseff says she hasn't broken any laws and she's vowing to fight.

VAUSE: CNN's Shasta Darlington has the latest from Brasilia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHASTA DARLINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The numbers on the Brazilian senate board were clear: a majority vote to launch an impeachment trial against President Dilma Rousseff, accused of illegally meddling with the

budget, which she denies. Rousseff came out swinging, calling the process against her a coup d'etat.

DILMA ROUSSEFF, FORMER PRESIDENT, BRAZIL, via translator: When a Brazilian or when a president is impeached for a crime that has not committed, the name that we have for this in the democracy is not an impeachment, it's a coup.

DARLINGTON: Soon after her statement she stepped into a swarm of people outside the presidential offices in Brasilia. What happens next, Rousseff is now suspended for up to six months and this man, Vice President Michel Temer, is stepping in as interim president.

On Thursday, he announced his cabinet. It included no women for the first time since the 1970s.

MICHEL TEMER, INTERIM PRESIDENT, BRAZIL, via translator: It is urgent that we calm the nation and unite all of Brazil. It is urgent to form a government of national salvation, political parties, leaders and the Brazilian people should cooperate so we can come out of this grave crisis.

DARLINGTON: Rousseff had to vacate the presidential palace but will be able to live in the presidential residence as she prepares her defense.

And although she lit the Olympic torch right here in Brasilia just last week, it doesn't look like she will be at the helm to preside over the games, which start on August 5th.

A country just under three months away from hosting the Olympics, mired in a major Zika health crisis, economic recession and political uncertainty has divided the country with no end in sight.

Shasta Darlington, CNN, Brasilia

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: Julia Leite joins us now. She's Sao Paulo, Brazil Bureau Chief for Bloomberg. Julia, thanks so much for joining us. So, Dilma Rousseff suspended. Her vice president, Michel Temer, now in the hot seat. He announced a cabinet today. What does that tell us about how he will approach the myriad of problems Brazil is facing?

JULIA LEITE, BUREAU CHIEF, BLOOMBERG, SAO PAULO OFFICE: I think the first thing to note out of this is how fast he announced the cabinet. He was notified that he was becoming acting president right as Dilma was giving her last speech. Minutes later, not even an hour later, we already had more than 20 members of his cabinet. They were quite as the market and newspaper had been forecasting. No real surprises there. But he is just acting very, very quickly, which is sort of what Brazil needs right now.

SESAY: The economy is in free fall. What's the view of the reforms he is proposing to steer the country through this crisis?

LEITE: We have -- we're going to have a little more detail on his actual proposals on Friday. His new finance minister was also a former central banker here in Brazil, is going to give a press conference in the morning to give more details on what they are planning to do. What we have right now is a general outline what they want to do, and they keep talking about it, is rebuild confidence in Brazil and confidence that this economic team can actually get Brazil out of this massive recession we're in.

[00:05:01] SESAY: You know, markets like stability. They thrive in those conditions. Hard to see stability on the horizon, not just because of the divided nature of the congress but also because a number of the very politicians that were involved in the ousting of Dilma Rousseff themselves face an array of allegations of impropriety.

LEITE: That's right. We have to remember the Car Wash Operation which is the huge corruption investigation here in Brazil has been going on for two years and it is still ongoing. There are a lot of politicians, still sitting politicians, and some politicians even now named to Temer's cabinet that have been named in the probe. So that is also a possible wild card that could derail the government even more.

It's a divided country. You do have anti-impeachment and pro- government supporters that say, this is not a legitimate government and we are not going to stand for it. So that is going to be a big challenge for Temer as well.

SESAY: Many, many challenges, I think, is the takeaway from this conversation. Julia Leite, appreciate it; thank you so much.

LEITE: Thank you.

VAUSE: Donald Trump and - Donald Trump and U.S. House Speaker Paul Ryan held their peace summit on Thursday, a much anticipated meeting to try and find common ground. It ended with smiles and kind words and a promise to work together.

SESAY: They agreed they have, "great opportunity to unite the deeply divided Republican Party," but as Jim Acosta reports, they also admit they still have some important differences.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

stop the hate.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It was, as expected, a circus as Donald Trump came to Washington in search of a GOP big tent large enough to hold his renegade campaign and the party establishment he hopes to win over.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI) SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I thought he was a very good personality. he is a very warm and genuine person.

ACOSTA: First up Paul Ryan, who is still holding back his endorsement of Trump, but as he hinted, perhaps not for long.

RYAN: I think this is going in a positive direction. I think this is a first very encouraging meeting; but, again, in 45 minutes, you don't litigate all of the processes and all the issues and the principles that we are talking about.

ACOSTA: Trump shied away from the media scrums, but tweeted, "Great day in D.C. with Speaker Ryan and Republican leadership. Things working out really well." But Kumbaya in the Capitol it was not. While aides say their meeting was not heated, Ryan indicated they remain split on critical issues.

RYAN: There are policy disputes we will have, there's no two ways about it.

ACOSTA: When Trump ventured to the Senate side of the Capitol, there were more reasons for optimism but also some disagreements. Trump tweeted that his meeting with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell was "great" but Texas Senator John Cornyn said he confronted Trump on his rhetoric on immigration.

SEN. JOHN CORNEN (R-TX): There's a way to talk about these issues that people don't find offensive, but yet still make the point that we're all for secure borders.

ACOSTA: All day long, Democrats, eager to take back control of Congress, were out to exploit the GOP's divisions. Pro-immigration groups even delivered taco bowls to members of Congress to mock Trump's Cinco de Mayo tweet about his love for Mexican food and Hispanics.

Senate Minority Leader, Harry Reid, went further.

SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: Since Republican leaders are all in for Donald Trump, we can only assume he proves Trump's calling immigrants' rapists and murders. Since Senator McConnell has so enthusiastically embraced Trump, we can only assume he agrees with Trump's view that women are dogs and pigs.

ACOSTA: But the Trump campaign is feeling better after this Capitol Hill primary. Ryan's endorsement was never expected on this day, one Trump aide told me; and another official said that endorsement is just a matter of time, adding, he is not expected to jump on board as he has a lot of members to appease.

Jim Acosta, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Let's bring in Republican Strategist, Luis Alverado. Luis, thanks for being with us.

SESAY: Welcome. Welcome.

LUIS ALVERADO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It's a pleasure.

VAUSE: You know, all this Trump and Ryan stuff, you know what it looks like?

ALVERADO: What?

VAUSE: It looks like one of those movies where the two guys are handcuffed together and they hate each other's guts and they have to work together to survive. How long can this Trump/Ryan thing last? ALVERADO: You know the funniest thing I read about the actual event is they had an agreement they were only going to bring one of their lieutenant in -

VAUSE: Wow!

ALVERADO: -- and towards the end Trump says, everybody come in now.

[Laughter]

ALVERADO: But Ryan was prepared. So he had his own lieutenants and he goes, you guys come in.

VAUSE: Wow.

ALVERADO: So I would have loved to have been a fly on that wall.

VAUSE: Some kind of gang standoff, isn't it?

SESAY: It really - listen -

VAUSE: Gangs of D.C.

SESAY: Gangs of D.C. I mean, there's some real issues here, and risks to both sides, in terms of this union of sorts. I mean, let's look at it from the position of Donald Trump. He has run his campaign to date on being the ultimate outsider. There is a risk that embracing the establishment, that is going to turn off a huge number of his supporters.

[00:10:01] ALVERADO: And that's the question is, what does huge mean? So someone will be there, crunching the math and trying to figure out how much pivot he can do to the middle without losing some of that base that he has built, that has propelled -

SESAY: Yes.

ALVERADO: -- him, even regardless of the problems that he's had and the mistakes he has made in the campaign. The reality is that the one thing everybody is conscious is, is that he has no infrastructure. He is trying to play nice with a Republican Party, the RNC, because they have an infrastructure. They are the ones that know how to raise money. They are the ones that have the lawyers, who can actually make sure that you don't get lawsuits. They're the ones who can actually build ground game for all this operation because they've been doing it for centuries.

VAUSE: Okay - sorry, I was just going to jump -- one of the issues here is, for the Party, they want Trump to change his tone. They want him to change the way he does things. Let's make the argument here for Donald Trump, why would he?

I mean, let's look at numbers here for the primary votes he has received so far in this case. He has broken the record, more votes than any other nominee in history. He has 10.9 million. The last record holder was George W. Bush in 2000, 10.8. John McCain in 2008, 9.9; Mitt Romney, the last time around, 9.8. Keep in mind there are still six more states that are yet to vote. Okay, so that's obviously inspiring Republicans to go out and others to vote for him.

At the same time, you've got that Quinnipiac poll which came out earlier this week. Take a look at these numbers. These are three crucial swing states. Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump are neck and neck. If you are Donald Trump you are saying, why do you want me to change? This is working; what's your problem?

ALVERADO: Well the path of least resistance is to be himself -

VAUSE: Yes.

ALVERADO: -- because it's worked for him and really there is no argument, as you say. The only argument that I see is this is a primary that you're talking about. In the general election you actually have to peel up - because just as you have inspired many republicans to come out and vote, there's an equal effect on the other side, disenfranchised Democrats or Independents who haven't voted because they haven't been inspired. Donald Trump will inspire.

Just like in California 187 inspired many Latinos to come out and vote in huge force, that's what's going to happen on the other side. So we're going to see greater amounts. I'm meeting tomorrow with the Secretary of State for California. I met with him before. He is expecting 600,000 more people to come out and vote, regardless of both sides. So the question is, he may still have to do the pivot because otherwise, he's no math; because the negative numbers is what he is fighting against.

SESAY: Yes.

VAUSE: Okay; so there is one area which Trump does appear to be dialing it back to pivot, his temporary travel ban on Muslims. This is what Paul Ryan was saying about that last year; listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN: What was proposed yesterday is not what this party stands for, and more importantly it's not what this country stands.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And this is now what Donald Trump is saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We have a serious problem. It's a temporary ban. It hasn't been called for yet. Nobody has done it. This is just a suggestion until we find out what's going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: All right; so there he is.

[Laughter] SESAY: John likes to call it try to do the pivot away from what was a very steadfast position when he came out with it a couple weeks ago. Talk to us about that and this pivot he is trying to make and how far the likes of Paul Ryan will push him on making those changes.

ALVERADO: Well when it comes to the base I think there's very little he can do to dissuade them. I think they're in for it all the way to the end; but the question remains, it's those in the middle, the independents or the democrats who are blue-dot democrats, who do jump lines. They're going to want to see the same Donald Trump. But when he starts pivoting, like this, there's a sense he is not being authentic with the people, and it may come to bite him, if the other side spends money and shows the people that he is doing that.

SESAY: And quickly, divisions not just on the issue of immigration, there's also divisions on entitlement, on abortion, on a number of issues. Which would you expect Paul Ryan to push him to change on most importantly? I mean, I don't think the expectation is he will change on everything.

ALVERADO: I think it would have to be a combination of immigration and I think he expects him to actually do his homework and know what he is talking about when he talks about the economy and taxes because he hasn't demonstrated that he has command of any of the subject so far. I'm sure he has a huge curve to overcome when it comes to actually understanding policy and that's what he expects the establishment in Washington to do for him, is to help him create a policy book.

VAUSE: Luis, thank you very much.

SESAY: So many gaps.

ALVERADO: Yes.

SESAY: Luis, appreciate it; thank you. Moving open now. CNN is getting new information about the potential involvement of Saudi citizens in the 9/11 terror attacks in the U.S.

VAUSE: This comes as some victims' families as Congress to pass legislation allowing them to sue foreign governments linked to 9/11. Our Chief U.S. Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto reports.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[00:15:02] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF U.S. SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: It's an allegation that has lingered almost since the moment the towers fell, that Saudi Arabia was somehow tied to the 9/11 attacks. Now, speaking to CNN by telephone, former 9/11 Commissioner John Layman says the classified 28 pages of a congressional report into 9/11, contain evidence that as many as six Saudi individuals supported al- Qaeda in the run-up to it the attacks. Those individuals, he says, worked for the Saudi Embassy in the U.S., Saudi charities and a government funded mosque in California.

Layman makes clear that the 28 pages, which are mostly FBI summary reports, contain no smoking guns, and like the 9/11 Commission concluded, Layman does not believe the Saudi government or any of its senior officials supported or were aware of the 9/11 plots. However, Layman says that evidence of lower level Saudi involvement was never sufficiently investigated and should now be, "vigorously pursued." Other commission members, including a former federal prosecutor, Richard Ben-Veniste are echoing the call.

RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR AND MEMBER OF 9/11 COMMISSION: We would not be so arrogant as to think that we, with our limited time and resources, have investigated every single aspect that there is to look at in the 9/11 disaster.

SCIUTTO: When it completed its investigation in 2004, the 9/11 Commission concluded it found, "No evidence that the Saudi Government, as an institution, or senior Saudi officials, individually, funded al- Qaeda." Saudi leaders have repeatedly cited that conclusion as eliminating the possibility of any official Saudi role.

PRINCE TURKI AL-FAISAL, FORMER INTELLIGENCE CHIEF, SAUDI ARABIA: If you look at the Commission Report, it deals specifically with Saudi Arabia's role; that there was not a Saudi role, nor any official role in this situation.

SCIUTTO: Some 9/11 Commission members do not dispute that defense.

BEN-VENISTE: There's a substantial jump to suggest that somebody who had a job in a consulate is a representative of the Saudi government.

SCIUTTO: However, layman says the Commission's conclusion intentionally left open the possibility that lower level government officials or employees may have played some role, even if they were not instructed by Saudi leadership. And it's that lingering question that he hopes the 28-page release and further investigation will answer once and for all.

The 9/11 investigation was terminated, layman told CNN, before all the relevant leads were able to be investigated. Layman points to some clever semantics in that 9/11 Report conclusion saying, for instance, the Saudi government as an institution or that senior officials did not fund al-Qaeda, that that left open the possibility that lower level Saudis did play a role, perhaps without the direction of the Saudi leadership.

Now, to be clear, the Saudi government also supports releasing those 28 pages. The Saudi Foreign Minister saying exactly that just last week in Geneva.

Jim Sciutto, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

When we come back here on CNN, missed warnings and precious moments lost during the Brussels terror attacks. What we're learning from a new investigation. Also, tracking down a convicted jihadi recruiter; why he's not in prison. SESAY: Also, George Zimmerman thought he'd cash in on the gun he'd used in the fatal, controversial killing; but auctioning the weapon hasn't been as simple as he expected.

VAUSE: Also here, musician Ben Harper on his new song about the killing of young African-American men at the hands of authorities.

[Playing "Call It What It Is" by Ben Harper]

(Commercial Break) (WEATHER HEADLINES)

[00:22:49] VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody; in Brussels many are asking what if, as detail emerge from an inquiry into the March terror attacks. In particular, 47 minutes which elapsed from when authorities said the airport blast was a terrorist attack and an alert went out to shut down the Brussels metro.

SESAY: (Inaudible) police sent an email ordering metro's closure, nearly 20 minutes later, but it went to the wrong address. Four minutes after that, a terrorist blew himself up at Maalenbeek. 32 people died in the two bombings.

Well, a jihadist recruiter linked to the network behind those attacks is walking free.

VAUSE: Erin McLaughlin tracked down that man and she talked to the mother of a teenager he recruited, who later died in Syria.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Photos from Sabri Refla's 18th birthday. A family trip to celebrate, one of his mother's happiest memories before he went to Syria.

SAIHA BAN ALI, MOTHER OF SABRI REFLA: We don't know what's happen in Syria but we are sure with what happened with our son, Sabri, when he was here.

MCLAUGHLIN: Eight months after that trip, Saihi Ban Ali she says her son became radicalized. He sent her a Facebook message to let her know he was in Syria. Then came a chilling phone call.

BEN ALI, via translator: The Syrian guy said, congratulations, your son just died as a martyr, and then he hung up. It was horrible. When I heard about his death, I felt like I died myself.

MCLAUGHLIN: Ben Ali says her son was the happiest of her four children. She didn't know the most dangerous jihadist recruitment network in Belgium had approached her son.

Known as the Zerkani Network, made up of veteran jihadists and recruiters, some would go on to carry out the terrorist attacks in Paris and Brussels. Authorities have prosecuted more than 60 recruiters and foreign fighters, one of them was Sabri Refla. Because there's no proof of death, Refla was still convicted. His recruiters were also declared guilty. As you see here, the judge allowed them to walk free pending their

appeal. CNN tracked down one of the recruiters to his home address.

This is the neighborhood of one of the recruiters convicted alongside Refla. [00:25:01] Refla's mother says her son called him from Syria, pleading. Refla wanted to come home; the recruiter said no. We're here to ask him why.

We ring the doorbell; his mother answers. She screams at us to leave her alone. As we walk away, the recruiter appears and confronts us. His words are not welcoming. He refuses to talk to us on camera.

Belgian authorities tell CNN they have not notified residents that a convicted jihadist recruiter is living in their midst. We saw a teenage boy entering the same apartment building.

The president of Brussels' tribunal says in Belgium it's not unusual for a criminal to go free while waiting for appeal, if they're not considered a flight risk.

how is it that a convicted member of a terrorist organization, sentenced to seven years in prison, is allowed to walk free after his trial?

LUC HENNART, PRESIDENT, BRUSSEL TRIBUNAL, via translator: The judge says that this man's behavior was good throughout the trial and this decision of the judge needs to be respected.

MCLAUGHLIN: For Refla's mother, the fact that Refla's mother, the fact that her son's recruiters are free while he's dead is this is too much. She says it's as if he has died twice.

BEN ALI: I don't really believe in human justice but in god justice. He will pay, not here but by god. And I just want to tell him that my son didn't have second chance like him.

Erin McLaughlin, CNN, Brussels.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SESAY: Time for a quick break now. The protests in Ferguson, Missouri, inspire musician Ben Harper's new song, "Call It What It Is". We will speak with him coming up next.

["Call It What It Is" by Ben Harper Plays]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:30:37] SESAY: Welcome back to "CNN Newsroom" L.A.; the headlines this hour: Brazilians are protesting a vote by the senate to begin an impeachment trial against President Dilma Rousseff. Vice President Michel Temer was sworn in Thursday as the country's interim leader. Ms. Rousseff calls the vote a coup.

VAUSE: In Pakistan, three men have been arrested for a so-called honor murder. Three female relatives were shot dead Wednesday in Punjab Province. Police tell CNN one of the victim's husbands thought she was having an affair. The husband and two relatives have been arrested. the murders are often called honor killings, but there's no honor in this crime; CNN calls them what they are, murders.

SESAY: U.S. House Speaker, Paul Ryan, and Donald Trump say they are confident there's a great opportunity to unite the Republican Party but they admit they still have differences. Ryan stopped short of endorsing Trump for president after their long-awaited meeting on Thursday.

VAUSE: Two online auction houses now have stopped George Zimmerman from selling the gun he used in the deadly shooting of African- American teenager Trayvon Martin in 2012. One auction house didn't want the bad publicity. The second site crashed and said hosting the sale was not in its best interests. Zimmerman was acquitted in the shooting.

(Song "Call It What It Is" by Ben Harper plays)

VAUSE: "Call It What It Is" a powerful new song and album by Grammy- Award Winning Musician, Ben Harper.

SESAY: And Ben joins us in the studio. Ben, welcome.

BEN HARPER, MUSICAN AND SONGWRITER: Thank you so much for having me.

SESAY: It's great that you are here with us.

VAUSE: It's great for you to be here; thank you.

HARPER: I'm honored.

SESAY: You have done so many songs. Some of them in the past have touched on issues like the environment, have touched on things like poverty, politics. Talk to us about "Call It What It Is."

HARPER: It's a slippery slope, to a degree, telling people or informing people the direction they should take a song in when they hear it. It's very personal and private that moment where you connect with a song and so I wouldn't want to undermine that in any shape or form; but I guess I hope it somehow empowers them in a way.

[Song "Call It What It Is" by Ben Harper plays]

VAUSE: When I listen to your song, I mean, we have an epidemic, what people describe as an epidemic in the United States; black men being shot and killed by the white people or white police officers and then those people seem to walk away free. In your song, you focus on three victims in particular. There was Trayvon Martin back in 2012, just to remind our audience out there. He was the kid with the hoodie and Skittles. He was shot dead by George Zimmerman. He was acquitted by a jury in Florida.

There's also Michael Brown. Again, fatally shot by a police officer. That sparked riots in Ferguson. And then here in Los Angeles is Ezell Ford. He was a 25-year-old man.

He had a mental illness and he was killed after a scuffle with the LAPD.

So I guess the question, out of all of the victims of these kinds of shootings, why focus on those three?

HARPER: Because otherwise it would take me the entire record to name them all and that's where there's the danger and that's why I am proud to be a voice in the choir. You know, people will get on you when you do this kind of thing, won't they? They will come after you. In its best day and in its strongest voice, it draws a distinct line, doesn't it, in the lyrical content? I hope; and with that said, again, a voice in the choir.

I don't want to overstate it, but if you are going to test my resolve, I'm not barking down. Call it what it is, murder. Collective consciousness is change. Collective silence is doom. And I am a voice, hopefully,

that song can be a voice of collective consciousness in the name of change, whether that be in the way people react and act on a daily basis or whether that's a [00:35:01] change in policy. I just want -- we all want our voices to be heard somehow in what we do, and that's CNN and that's B-E-N.

SESAY: What was the moment that led you to this song? You describe being with some young people.

HARPER: Yes; I'm a skateboarder. well I'm a skate enthusiast. When Ferguson was going down, we - it just sat us all down. There's a strong community of skateboarders who are highly socially aware and active and through this tribe, in this community of skaters, in a discussion with them the song came to life. I had to get it out.

(Song "Call It What It Is" by Ben Harper plays)

VAUSE: In your music, you're not really pulling any punches here. I'm just wondering do you feel that you are at your stage in your career, either personally or professionally, maybe financially, that you are comfortable doing this now?

HARPER: I mean, that's been there from day one. Maya Angelou, she let me put a song - a poem of hers to music. It was a special moment for me because she allowed that to happen. She gave license for me to do a song called "I'll Rise."

(Song "I'll Rise" by Ben Harper)

HARPER: I mean, it's just what I do. It's who I am, and I've never shied away from that kind of thing.

SESAY: We've seen in recent months, Beyonce with a performance of "Formation" -

HARPER: Exactly.

SESAY: -- at the Super Bowl.

HARPER: Incredible.

SESAY: Incredible performance. We know Prince, before he died, did that song for Baltimore, as well.

HARPER: Yes.

SESAY: Do you feel we're at a moment where black artists are using their voices more in the way you have for a long time used your voice? Do you see something; do you feel something?

HARPER: Something is going on.

SESAY: Yes?

HARPER: Yes, and I hope it equates to change before it gets past a tipping point, if we're not already past that point; I don't know. It's not for me to say. I hope there's a shift in the way we approach race, especially in America; and especially through law enforcement and black youth. I hope that - I hope there's a shift, because I have a great deal of honor and respect for the necessity and the role of law enforcement, but the murder has to stop.

VAUSE: Well I think -- we need to take a short break, but you'll stay with us and perform "Call It What It Is" --

HARPER: Love to; thank you for having me on.

VAUSE: We're looking forward to hearing that. So, please stay with us. You're watching CNN; we're back in a moment.

[Song "Call It What It Is" by Ben Harper plays]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[00:40:21] [Ben Harper Performs "Call It What It Is]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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