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Trump On His Tax Rate: "None Of Your Business"; GOP Thaws But Trump Faces New Dilemmas; Trump Denies Posing As His Own Publicist; Target Doubles Down On Transgender Rights Stance; States Fire Back At New Transgender Guidance; Former Chicago Gang Member Turned Aspiring College Student Shot. Aired 12-1p ET

Aired May 14, 2016 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump on the defense amid growing scrutiny over his delay in releasing his tax returns. He says voters don't have the right to see them. And told ABC's George Stephanopoulos that his tax rate is, quote, "none of your business."

[12:00:02] But Hillary Clinton's campaign thinks otherwise and it is teasing on the issue, releasing this new web video that uses Trump's words against him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Getting any closer to releasing your tax returns?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I'm thinking about it.

I can't do it until the audit is finished.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The audit is no excuse. The IRS has made it very clear that an audit is not a bar to public release. It is entirely your choice.

TRUMP: It's none of your business!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. CNN's Scott McLean joins me now. So, Scott, it seems this is another sign of the Clinton camp looking past Senator Sanders and towards November by taking on Trump.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fredricka. If you didn't know any better, you would probably think that Hillary Clinton had already clinched the Democratic nomination and moved on to the general election.

She still, technically, has a primary battle to win, but lately she's opted to ignore Bernie Sanders and go straight after Donald Trump, hitting him on his proposed Muslim ban, his tax cut plan, and now this web video about the tax returns Trump has not yet released, and maybe won't before November. He says he can't release them because he's under IRS audit. Now, Clinton is more than happy to talk about tax returns, because she and her husband have released decades of returns publicly already.

Trump may not want to talk about those returns, but he has no problem going after Hillary Clinton, branding her crooked Hillary, over her e- mail controversy, and even calling her an enabler when it comes to her husband's sexual impropriety in the '90s.

So as Clinton hits Trump and Trump weathers these latest controversies and also tried to unify his party, this back and forth may actually help galvanize support for both candidates.

WHITFIELD: So that ad, Clinton ad reminds people of 1976. Presidential candidates have been releasing these returns, but it's not a requirement. Is it the case that it's just become habit, and it's the expectation?

MCLEAN: Yes, Fredricka. So there's absolutely no legal requirement for Donald Trump or any other candidate to release his tax returns, but it has been the norm since the '70s for presidential nominees in both parties to make them public.

Keep in mind, though, that Trump's returns will not show his net worth. What we would learn is how he is generating income, any debt he holds, any charitable donations he's made, and of course, his tax rate, which he says he fights hard to keep very low.

WHITFIELD: OK. Thank you so much, Scott McLean, appreciate it. We'll talk more about this now with Hillary Clinton going after Donald Trump on taxes. We're beginning to see a possible preview, perhaps, of the upcoming general election battle for president.

Let's talk about all of this with our political panel. Bill Press is a CNN political commentator and a Bernie sanders supporter. Maria Cardona --

BILL PRESS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Hi! How are you? Maria's a CNN political commentator and a Democratic strategist who supports Hillary Clinton. All right, good to see you, as well.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey, Fred.

WHITFIELD: So Maria, you first. I just established that it's not a requirement, but it's become customary since 1976 that all of the candidates have released their tax returns. So is -- does this mean that voters have become so accustomed to this, that they need to see it in order to make, you know, a clear decision about who they want to vote for?

CARDONA: Absolutely! Absolutely. And I think it was very telling when Trump told George Stephanopoulos, "It's none of your business." I think in essence, he was telling the voters and America, "It's none of your business." And I think America will say, hey, wait a minute, we are the one interviewing you for the highest office in the land, for the most powerful job in the world, and we need to see your taxes.

And anything else that can prove to us that you can actually be somebody that we can trust in this very powerful position. And it is something that, you know, since -- for the last 40 years, every presidential candidate has done it. And so I think he is definitely feeling the heat but for good reason.

WHITFIELD: Bill, there are messages sent perhaps transparency being among them when tax returns are revealed. But then, what's the message when a candidate says, "It's none of your business." You're not going to going get these returns.

PRESS: The message is pretty clear. I've got something to hide and I don't want people to know. It's interesting, though, Donald Trump is one of the first ones to criticize Mitt Romney when he wouldn't release his returns back in 2012.

So, look, I think it's pretty clear. If he will not release his returns, that means he's not worth as much as he says he is. He is pays minimum amount of taxes. He doesn't give much money to charity and he probably owes a lot of money.

He doesn't want us to know that. But now I have to add one thing is we're all talking by the old rules, and I would say, you've got to do it. The people are not going to like it if you don't do it. They're going to demand it.

But Donald Trump has shown already, I've got to say, that he plays by a different set of rules, and so far, he has gotten away with it.

WHITFIELD: And so, is that a prelude to what you believe is more that voters are willing to tolerate or accept, because, he, you know, dances to his own drum beat. And this is just the beginning. Maybe not the beginning, it's a continuation, but that there's likely to be more.

[12:05:06]PRESS: Well, he may try, but I don't think so. First of all, Democrats are not going to make the same mistake that Republicans made in underestimating Donald Trump. It's already started with that ad with Hillary, of other things she's said.

Bernie Sanders in his speeches. They are going to expose Donald Trump for all of his failures as a businessman. Not the personal stuff, just on the issues. The fact that he knows nothing about anything to do with the federal government.

They'll go after him really, really tough. And I think the voters, as Maria said, for the highest position in the land. They're going to want and demand answers. They're not going to fall for it the way Republican primary voters did.

WHITFIELD: Maria? CARDONA: And if can I add, yes, this kind of attitude worked very well for Trump. He was a master at it during the Republican primary process.

PRESS: Yes.

CARDONA: But let's remember, this is a very different electorate that he is facing now. And he is facing the highest negatives with so many different demographics that the Republican Party actually needs to get more of, if they have -- if they want to have a prayer of having a credible pathway to the White House.

So, I think this is very different than what Trump has ever faced in the primary process. And these voters are not going to let it slide when they see somebody who is -- either looks like they're trying to hide something, looks like they're trying to, you know, pass something to voters, that, you know, who knows?

Who knows who this guy is? I mean, this is not the only thing that he's facing now, right? Is this Donald Trump? Is this John Miller, his publicist? I mean, who is this guy?

WHITFIELD: But to Bill's point, this is the way it has been. We are not seeing a new evolution of the way in which his candidacy has gone. So we've got five more months to go before the general election.

CARDONA: But that's -- right!

WHITFIELD: I just kind of wonder, you know, why should anyone think that suddenly, we're going to see a different kind of Donald Trump campaign. Why won't it be more of the same? And why won't that continue to be successful? Because so far, it has been for him, through the primary season.

PRESS: Very good --

CARDONA: Because it's different voters. Go ahead, Bill.

PRESS: Yes, very good point. And it reminds us all and again, I think Democrats realize this. Donald Trump is a real threat. He's a serious threat. Anybody who says this is going to be a cake walk. It's going to be easy, they don't know what they're talking about.

And certainly the Clinton camp and the Sanders camp do not believe that. Donald Trump could win unless we make sure he doesn't. But he got away with it in the primaries. That's a very thin slice of the electorate.

And, you know, the people turn out in the primaries, a little more extreme, if you will, 9 percent of American voters voted in the primaries.

He's coming up now, this is the big leagues. This is the real deal. And I don't think he gets away with just calling people names, the way he did in the primary.

WHITFIELD: All right. We're going to leave it right there.

CARDONA: That's exactly right.

WHITFIELD: We'll talk more about it, though. Bill Press and Maria Cardona, thanks so much for now.

All right, straight ahead, more on this new controversy for Donald Trump amid a report that he pretended to be his own publicist in the '90s.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where did you come from?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was -- I basically worked at different firms. I worked for a couple of different firms. I know somebody that knows, and I think somebody that he trusts and likes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: It's poor quality tape, but Trump says, that's not his voice on the tapes. But one expert and the reporter involved who was actually having the dialogue with him say differently.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:11:37]

WHITFIELD: All right. So we all know him as the Donald, but now a different name is making headlines and raising eyebrows for its ties to presumptive Republican nominee, Donald Trump. That name, John Miller.

And "The Washington Post" claims that Trump used that alias when posing as his own publicist back in the '90s. The paper also claims it has the tapes to prove it. But Trump says, that's not him. CNN's Drew Griffin has more.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Fred, if the person on this tape is not Donald Trump, then an audio expert we talked to said someone has done a masterful job of sounding almost exactly like Donald Trump. The fact is, the secret PR men in Donald Trump's past may not have ever been a real secret at all.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): The real amazing story of Donald Trump's old spokesman, as "The Washington Post" headline writes, may be that it's been such an open secret for so long, it's hard to believe that anyone is still questioning it.

SUE CARSWELL (via telephone): What's your name again?

"JOHN MILLER" (via telephone): John Miller.

CARSWELL: And you work with Donald Trump? MILLER: Yes, that's correct.

GRIFFIN: It was back in the 1980s when the flashy New York real estate mogul needed to get a bit of news out, the newspaper reports it was common knowledge among New York reporters that Trump just assumed a different name and handled the media calls himself.

Like this call from reporter, Sue Carswell at "People" magazine concerning Trump's breakup with girlfriend, Marla Maples.

CARSWELL (via telephone): What kind of comment is coming from, you know, your agency or from Donald?

MILLER: Well, it's just that he really decided that he wasn't -- you know, he didn't want to make a commitment. He really thought it was too soon. He's coming out of a, you know, a marriage and he's starting to do tremendously well financially.

GRIFFIN: If that John Miller sounds like Trump, it's because audio forensic expert, Tom Owen says, in his opinion, it is.

THOMAS OWEN, FORENSIC AUDIO SPECIALIST: I can conclude with a fair degree of scientific certainty that it is Donald Trump's voice.

GRIFFIN: This afternoon, Owen compared the John Miller on that phone call with "People" magazine --

MILLER: He didn't want to make a commitment. He really thought it was too soon.

GRIFFIN: -- to the real Donald Trump interviewed on CNN's Larry King live in the 1990s.

TRUMP: I don't talk about relationships. I don't about the personal aspects of it.

GRIFFIN: Due to the quality of the old recordings, he couldn't use his biometric analysis that he says would be absolutely certain, but based on pitch, tone, cadence, and his expertise, John Miller and Donald Trump are one and the same.

OWEN: I'm confident that it's Donald Trump based on my analysis of the critical listening, listening to the two recordings, and drawing a conclusion based on various factors, pitch, mannerisms, syllable coupling.

GRIFFIN: Trump even tacitly admitted under oath to using one of his false PR names in a 1990 court testimony, when he said, I believe, on occasion, I used that name.

Trump was confronted with the taped phone call and "The Washington Post" story on Friday's "Today" show.

TRUMP (via telephone): No, I don't think it -- I don't know anything about it. You're telling me about it for the first time and it doesn't sound like my voice at all. I have many, many people that are trying to imitate my voice and you can imagine that. And this sounds like one of the scams, one of the many scams, doesn't sound like me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[12:15:02]GRIFFIN: It turns out that Donald Trump may have learned this trick from his father, Fred Trump, who was also known in the New York real estate media as a certain Mr. Green -- Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks so much, Drew Griffin, appreciate it.

And today the reporter on the other end of those tapes is speaking out in an interview with CNN. Sue Carswell talked about the controversy and who she thinks is responsible making those tapes public.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, "SMERCONISH": Did you release this tape?

SUE CARSWELL, FORMER REPORTER, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: No.

SMERCONISH: Did you have the tape? I mean, how did it get into play?

CARSWELL: All right. Two people had the tape. I had a tape and Trump had a tape, and I don't have the tape.

SMERCONISH: How do you think it got into play?

CARSWELL: Well, it didn't get to "The Washington Post" through me.

SMERCONISH: So?

CARSWELL: Trump!

SMERCONISH: you think Trump dropped this tape.

CARSWELL: Yes.

SMERCONISH: Why would he do that?

CARSWELL: Look what's gone on this week, taxes, Paul Ryan, the butler. The butler did it. Now Trump seems to like to pull "People" magazine-type stories into the fray.

SMERCONISH: So in other words, a continuation. Here's your thought. It's a continuation of what John Miller told you back in 1991, that there's no such thing as bad publicity. So Trump now getting banged over the taxes, the butler comes out and says outrageous things about President Obama, he figures, you know what, a little diversion here is in order?

CARSWELL: Yes, but what's so weird, 25 years and all of a sudden this comes forward. There's no reason for it to have come forward, at all.

SMERCONISH: There's not been some Watergate break-in at your apartment where someone could have --

CARSWELL: This is Watergate going on right now, Michael.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: My goodness. Sue Carswell, she was with "People" magazine at the time that she did those recordings. I want to bring in now Larry Sabato, director of the University of Virginia's Center for Politics.

Larry, where do we begin on this one? This is just wacky. So she's asked about whether this is kind of, you know, deflection. You know, could it be? She says, you've got taxes. You've got all these other matters that perhaps he doesn't want to address and leaking the tapes might make it better for him. But how would it make it better?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UVA'S CENTER FOR POLITICS: Well, there are certainly people who believe, and I think Trump did at one point in his life, that there's no such thing as bad publicity. But, Fred, believe me, this is bad publicity. This does not help the candidacy of Donald Trump.

It isn't so much the bizarre revelation that he was his own phony spokesperson. I think most of us think that's kind of odd. But, maybe that's acceptable in a certain world that Trump inhabited at one time.

What isn't acceptable is, as a presidential candidate, you're lying about something you've really already admitted in past decades. It's weird!

WHITFIELD: It is confusing. And you mentioned, you know, he says that bad publicity, good publicity, all of it is decent publicity. I read that in his book, "The Art of the Deal." Because everyone has had an opportunity to kind of get a little bit into his head by just reading that book.

So, this kind of publicity, if it turns out, when in a deposition, he admits to having used that name before, now he's saying in that "Today" show interview, that's not my voice.

If, indeed, come to find out, there's an admission later by him or if it's proven that that is his voice, that cannot be advantageous for him, if he were the one who would, indeed, have leaked this tape. Why would he want to leak it, if, indeed, that's the case?

SABATO: Because Trump is living in two worlds. He still has one foot in that celebrity world that he inhabited for much of his lifetime. I don't think he's fully adapted to the rules of modern politics.

And truly, the cover-up, lying, is more serious than the original offense. So I think that's part of it. And, if you're looking for motivations, I think the woman from "People" magazine identified of them.

Of the allegations that have been raised about him this week, there are always several in each week, but this week, for example, not releasing the tax returns, that is much manufacture serious a problem for him long-term than this particular incident. So --

WHITFIELD: And that this is deflection.

SABATO: It deflects attention from it. It causes us to talk about other things. Though, believe me, we'll get back to taxes. Everybody has released their tax returns, a nominee, since 1976, and Donald Trump is not going to be able to get away with not releasing his tax returns.

WHITFIELD: So bottom line, does it not become an issue of character? I mean, character is measured in large part, you know, by your tax returns. People want to get an idea, how charitable is this person?

How honest were they about their disclosures, et cetera? And character also might be measured by whether you were truthful or not. Whether you, you know, played a role as yourself, or whether you tried on an alias or, you know, something, and later denying it.

How will the issue of character of Donald Trump all be measured based on all these little things that you say, every week, there's something.

[12:20:10]SABATO: Well, we've got a mosaic, don't we already of Donald Trump. There are new little pieces of the mosaic added weekly. We'll have plenty more before November. But notice, Fred, the best defense is a good offense, in politics, too.

And I think that's why Donald Trump keeps focusing on character, when he attacks Hillary Clinton, crooked Hillary, going after Bill. He's trying to neutralize the character issue. And so far, he's been doing a pretty good job of it.

WHITFIELD: Interesting. All right, Larry Sabato, always leaving us thinking. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

SABATO: Thank you, Fred. Thanks.

WHITFIELD: All right, still ahead, Republicans enraged after the Obama administration issued its new directive to give more rights to the transgender community. It's not the first time this country has been divided over bathrooms. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Welcome back. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. So as states and the Obama administration battle over transgender bathroom rights, one company is unwavering in its stance.

[12:25:04]Target doubled down on its policy that transgender people can use whichever bathroom correspondents to their identity and pointed out plans to roll out family restrooms through all of its stores across the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN CORNELL, TARGET CEO: We want our guests to be welcomed in our stores. But, if there's a question of safety, I can tell you and others, our focus on safety is unwavering. And we want to make sure we provide a welcoming environment for all of our guests.

One that's safe, one that's comfortable, and that's our commitment over time. So, we took a stance, and we're going to continue to embrace our belief of diversity, inclusion, and just how important that is to our company.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: That Target policy sparked an online petition with more than 1.2 million people calling for a nationwide boycott of Target stores saying, "It compromises guest safety," and, quote, "is exactly how sexual predators get their access to their victims."

That fight now spilling over into the nation's public schools. The Obama administration issuing sweeping guidelines Friday, saying schools should allow transgender students to use locker rooms or restrooms based on the gender to which they identify.

It's not a law, but it has drawn strong opposition from several school and state officials.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GOVERNOR DAN PATRICK (R), TEXAS: When the president threatens the state of Texas and other states that he'll withhold money, we are not going to be blackmailed by his 30 pieces of silver. He's not going to own our children.

Our parents and parents all across America do not want their children showering together. They don't want boys in the girl's rooms. This is unheard of. And this is the biggest issue, I think, for families and schools since prayer was taken out of public schools. And if this prevails, this will be the end of public schools as we know it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. Let's bring in our legal guys. Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney and law professor in New York. Good to see you. And Richard Herman, a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor joining us from Las Vegas. Good to see you as well.

Interesting. All right, so, Avery, these are guidelines from the Obama administration, but states are calling this federal overreach. You just heard the Texas governor saying this was blackmail. Are these valid points?

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: No. If he read it, he would have seen that it's only six pages, it identifies issues that are consistent with a federal court ruling, with policies of federal agencies.

This is not breaking news. The fact is that it's the state of where the law is going and frankly, the responsibility of the Department of Education and the Department of Justice is to provide that kind of guidance.

So it's a tempest in a teapot. This memo is exactly what the government is supposed to be doing. There are no threats to funding. There are no threats to lawsuits. It's being overblown.

One governor even called it a bayonet, a federal bayonet. No basis for that kind of conclusion. It's not the end of families in America.

WHITFIELD: And so, Richard, is it unusual for the Justice Department to extend this recommendation? I mean, clearly, there is quite the response, as Avery just underscored, there are different ways of interpreting what this means. So is it unusual?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it is unusual, Fred. And I think it's a thinly, if at all, veiled threat, to pull federal funding from states that don't comply. We're talking millions and millions of dollars of federal funding earmarked for education for those states.

But the transgender rights issue, Fred, is in its fantasy. And courts are going to have to determine this. Define "transgender," what does it mean? Can it be brought on spur of the moment?

Can you have an identity crisis and all of a sudden say I am now transgender? I don't know the issues here. I am a provocateur here, Fred.

FRIEDMAN: Yes, you are!

HERMAN: But it seems to me that billions and billions of dollars that are being spent to litigate and especially in North Carolina, when you have simple solutions, faculty, a nurse, a single-use bathroom, a minuscule portion of a population of the courts can go through this, it seems that's the way to handle this. It's complete, it seems to me, a complete waste of resources and energy when the school systems are crumbling before us.

WHITFIELD: So Richard, you believe this should be resolved by states. The federal government shouldn't be involved. You do see that this is a veiled threat. So, Avery, a response to any or all of what Richard said because you all see this completely differently?

FRIEDMAN: Well, not at all. You don't need to be a provocateur. I mean, the federal government -- when women had to sign baby letters promising not to get pregnant to get a loan or battling states that required Americans who are black to sit in the back of the bus.

These are advisories.

[12:30:01] There is no threat in this case of litigation or holding up funds. It is a -- it is an advisory and nothing more than that, to help decency, to help diversity, to make sure that people that are struggling with issues like that, issues of gender identity will not be harmed, that they are safe. So, bottom line, it is the right thing to do, at the right time in America.

WHITFIELD: And but, Richard, you're saying, there is penalty that comes with not following the advisory, potentially?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There is not. That's blatant here, Fred. For anyone to say it doesn't exist is ridiculous.

The issue is whether federal laws and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 protect gender discrimination rights. That's the issue. The United States Supreme Court will have to make that ultimate determination. The fourth circuit Court of Appeals of Virginia, Fred, just recently ruled that it does.

And Virginia covers North Carolina. So it appears to me, legally speaking, that North Carolina's statute is now unconstitutional.

Again, this is going to play out in the courts, and where do you draw the line? And how do you define gender? That's a big issue here, Fred.

FRIEDMAN: It's not that hard. It's not that hard, Richard. It's very difficult to do. It's common sense and safety and inclusion.

HERMAN: No, gender identity. Define gender identity, Avery. Define gender identity for us.

FRIEDMAN: It's what mom and dad, according to this advisory, says their child is, and a public institution, like public school, doesn't have a right to turn it down, by insisting that you look at a birth certificate. That's wrong, that's immoral.

(CROSSTALK)

HERMAN: ... their gender identity not, their parents. Who makes that determination?

FRIEDMAN: It's in the advisory, Richard.

WHITFIELD: All right.

FRIEDMAN: It's right there and it makes it clear.

WHITFIELD: And we're going to leave it right there. And I think that underscores exactly, you know, the kind of arguing and debating that is going on state-to-state right now.

And, well, I enjoyed hearing it from the two of you, because there was no better way to exhibit what this battle and what this debate is all about. It's not to hear you all, your voices. Thanks so much, Avery Friedman. All right, Richard Herman, always good to see you. Thanks so much.

HERMAN: Nice to see you, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, straight ahead, Donald Trump shifting his tone on one of the cornerstones of his campaign, his proposed ban on Muslims. Will this affect his support going forward?

We'll discuss, after the break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:35:24] WHITFIELD: As the Republican Party tries to find a way to come together with Donald Trump at its presumptive nominee, there are hurdles ahead. The biggest worry for some Republicans is a question of whether Trump has the conservative credentials they look for being a candidate. And Trump's shifting positions on a number of key issues won't likely help calm those concerns.

Here now is Tom Foreman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Throughout this chaotic campaign, the Trump band has been built on clear, strong statements. For example, last December, when he called for all Muslims to be barred from coming to the U.S.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States.

FOREMAN: But with the nomination looming, listen to him now.

TRUMP: It's a temporary ban. It hasn't been called for yet. Nobody's done it. This is just a suggestion.

I'm Donald Trump and I approve this message.

FOREMAN: On many subjects, Trump, the non-politician, has been doing what politicians do so well, highlighting possible flip-flops by his opponents, while quietly shifting his own views. On minimum wage, last fall, he acknowledged that some people want to see it raised.

TRUMP: But we cannot do this if we are going to compete with the rest of the world. We just can't do it.

FOREMAN: So do not raise the minimum wage?

TRUMP: I would not raise the minimum.

FOREMAN: And now?

TRUMP: So I like the idea of, let the states decide. But I think people should get more. I think they're out there, they're working. It is a very low number.

FOREMAN: On his tax plan, earlier in the campaign, he promised a break for middle class America and to hammer the wealthy.

TRUMP: In other words, it's going to cost me a fortune.

FOREMAN: And now?

TRUMP: Now if I increase it on the wealthy, that means they're still going to be paying less than they're pay now. I'm not talking about increasing from this point. I'm talking about increasing from my tax proposal.

FOREMAN: And of course on immigration. He's proposed a wall along the southern border.

TRUMP: We will build a wall. Who's going to pay for the wall?

CROWD: Mexico.

TRUMP: who?

CROWD: Mexico.

TRUMP: We're going to ...

FOREMAN: Trump insists building a wall is not open for negotiation. But other parts of his immigration plan might be.

TRUMP: Things are negotiable. I'll be honest with you. You know, I'll make the wall 2 feet shorter or something. I mean, everything is negotiable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right, that was Tom Foreman reporting.

Let's talk more about Trump's shifting stances. Let's bring in our Republican strategist and former campaign adviser for the McCain/Palin presidential ticket, Ford O'Connell, good to see you and CNN Political Commentator and Donald Trump supporter, Jeffrey Lord, good to see you, as well.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hello, Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, gentlemen. So Ford, you can call it evolution, you can call it flip-flopper, you could call it, you know, changing points of view. Is any of this advantageous or does any of this serve a Donald Trump well?

FORD O'CONNELL, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Essential question in this election is whether or not Donald Trump can win over enough Democratic and Independent voters to capture the White House in 2016. This is about providing him some wiggle room without being seen as a flip- flopper by the GOP base and the white working class voter.

Personally, I think this is wise, because it keeps him as a moving target, not a stationary object for Hillary Clinton to go down on him. The deal is not to get bogged down in the details, but keep the spirit of the core issues alive.

WHITFIELD: So Jeffrey, you agree with that? He's got to change in order to appeal to more Democrats, more Independents, a kind of, you know, widen the pool of voter support. And that's how you do it?

LORD: You're right. He's appealing to them right now. But I don't find anything unusual in this. This is after all the he man who wrote, "The Art of the Deal," and that talks quite frequently about negotiation.

The issue here is what direction do you move the country? In doing that, every president, no matter who you are, has to do negotiating. He's very good at it. I think you're seeing some of this right now. That's what is all about. And then the issue with Muslims, for example, he talked right from the get-go about this as a temporary ban to fix the immigration system.

WHITFIELD: But then, Jeffrey, you said, you know, what direction that the country is moving. And that's the message that people are looking for, from a Donald Trump.

So while he has changed his view on some these things, is he answering to that? Is he giving a clear, concise vision of the direction that he wants to move the country?

LORD: Yes, I believe he is. I mean when you go back and take a look at his foreign policy speech the other week, and I think he's going to be doing a speech soon on the Supreme Court, Supreme Court justices, I think you'll see very clearly the conservative direction that he's going in.

[12:40:10] WHITFIELD: So, then, Ford, if people who did not necessarily support him in the primary, and they're looking toward the general election, he's the presumptive nominee, what are the answers they're looking for? What does Donald Trump need to do or display or convey to them to make it clear, he's the guy that they should vote for?

O'CONNELL: That he can get things done in Washington. That he can put the economy back on the straight and narrow. And that he can work with all sides of the aisle, while still remaining true.

Look, you've got to understand 70 percent of ...

WHITFIELD: And how does he do that? I guess that's what I'm trying to get at it. How does he do that?

O'CONNELL: No, you're absolutely right, Fred. He does it by providing a vision. You have to understand, the most important voter in this election right now is the white working class voter. And he's giving him those core base of issues moving forward. But to everyone else, he has to show that he can put America first. And that he can make the right choice ...

WHITFIELD: But what are the assurances that he will be more specific? Because this point, I mean, he hasn't really been specific ...

O'CONNELL: Fred, I've got to be honest with you. Being specific is a trap, because that's what Hillary Clinton's looking for, is a stationary object to knock Donald Trump down every which way to Sunday. People buy a vision. They don't buy specific details. You find me a voter who says, "Gee, I'm with Hillary Clinton because I really like her tax plan, and I'll show you a sucker, OK."

The bottom line that Trump has done here, most people don't tell you, "Hey, I'm voting for Hillary Clinton." They either say, "I like or dislike Donald Trump." And that enthusiasm because of the vision he's created is going to carry him to the White House in 2016.

WHITFIELD: Interesting so, Jeffrey, you agree, vagaries is what's going to get you in the White House?

LORD: Yeah, you've got to have the vision and the message. That is it. I mean this was Ronald Reagan's specialty. He was criticized endlessly, but exactly on these grounds that he didn't have details and all of this. Frankly, he was criticized that way when he was president, let alone when he was running for president.

So, yes, this is it, because people are looking for a broad message and a broad vision. We're going to go -- you know, you point and say, we're going in this direction, I'll take us there. That's what they're looking for, that's what he's doing.

WHITFIELD: Enlightening. Jeffrey Lord, Ford O'Connell, thank you.

O'CONNELL: Thank you, Fred.

LORD: Thanks Fred

WHITFIELD: Wow, I didn't expect all of that, but that was good. Appreciate it.

All right, well one of Donald Trump's longtime friends and a former business executive, Louise Sunshine says, "Trump is not a flip- flopper."

I sat down with her at her home in Miami for an exclusive face-to- face.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Donald Trump in a made waves by saying he wanted to ban all Muslims. Now he is saying that was a suggestion. Does that make him a flip-flopper? Should people trust his word?

LOUISE SUNSHINE, FRIEND AND FORMER TRUMP ORGANIZATION VP: He is not a flip-flopper. What he is, is, what was it he said on page five of his book? I'm going to play that I am ...

WHITFIELD: Sometimes it pays to be a little wild.

SUNSHINE: Right. That is that. He was being a little wild or a lot wild. That was a lot wild not a little wild. And one of those things that I didn't take seriously, because we all know that that is not possible and I think a lot of the outrageous things, a wild things that he's said, you will see him being different, being more reasonable, being more presidential. You know, he has to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. She feels she knows him very well, having worked with him for 16 years and up until the day before yesterday, had a phone conversation with him. So we'll have much more of our exclusive interview with Louise Sunshine next weekend stay tuned.

All right, straight ahead, he was a symbol of hope in the CNN documentary series Chicagoland. Lee McCollum Jr. went from gangs to graduating with honors, but his transformation cut tragically short.

[12:43:57] His story, next.

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[12:47:40] WITHFIELD: He went from homelessness to aspiring college student. We're talking about Lee McCollum Jr., a Chicago man whose quest for a better life was featured prominently in the 2014 documentary, "Chicagoland," that aired on CNN. But this week, that quest was cut short after McCollum was shot and killed. CNN'S Ryan Young has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 2013 prom king, y'all give it up for Mr. Lee McCollum.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: For once he was a king, known to viewers of the 2014 CNN documentary "Chicagoland," Lee McCollum gave a rare glimpse into his struggle for survival and escape from his gang-riddled neighborhood. But McCollum's story ended tragically Thursday morning after he was gunned down in the streets of Chicago's south side.

LEE MCCOLLUM, FORMER CHICAGO HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: I don't have a plan.

LIZ DOZIER, FENGER HIGH SCHOOL PRINCIPAL: What do you think about maybe in January, what do you think about going away, to college or to a trade school? Going away.

MCCOLLUM: I wouldn't mind going away.

DOZIER: Give me your word we'll meet up at some point next week? OK, you know me, I keep it 100 percent real. You know how I am. I don't want to be hearing about nothing bad happen to you. I don't want to be going to your funeral.

YOUNG: Words that have new meaning for his former principal.

DOZIER: That was so hard, when they played that clip back. I just -- I forgot I had said that to him, you know, I was worried about him at the time, there were some things going on in his life that weren't on the up and up.

MCCOLLUM: Fenger helped me get into college, and I didn't have no hopes, no dreams of going.

YOUNG: 22-year-old Lee McCollum, a former gang member, turned honor role student and prom king, never made it out of the tough south side, despite getting accepted to college. He never enrolled and Thursday morning Lee was murdered, shot in the head, and left to die in the streets.

DOZIER: Remembering him as a freshman, he used to get on my last nerve that I had. He was in a lot of trouble and had a lot of issues, but we really wrapped support and resources around him and he joined the basketball team and we could see him slowly begin to shift until, I mean, really, when he graduated, he was prom king, he had been on the honor roll, like he really changed his life. And it was positive and it was inspiring because we know that all of our kids have that potential. I think that they're just up against incredible odds.

YOUNG: This wasn't McCollum's first brush with violence. He was shot in the leg in 2014. And just three weeks ago, his girlfriend was shot and killed while the two were together. Now many are hoping for a change.

[12:50:12] DOZIER: He hated funerals. He always hated them. And he would never stay. And so, you know, I just keep thinking like now we're attending his funeral. You know, it's just unfortunate.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

YOUNG: And Fred, just something to think about here. When we talk about funerals here in Chicago, there are many schools here that have sections of their graduations services where they talk about all the kids who died, who weren't able to graduate. So when you think about the impact of all the shootings that happen here, over 1,200 people have been shot just this year alone and the city's on pace for 500 murders this year. So a lot of people looking at this particular shooting, but if you think about it and expanded across the city, you know there's some real trouble going on.

WHITFIELD: This is heartbreaking. Our hearts go out to the McCollum family. Thank so much, Ryan. We'll be right back.

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(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: San Francisco start-up Sprig is delivering healthy meals on demand.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've created an app where every day, you can scroll through a menu that changes daily, tap twice on your phone, and 20 minutes later, a hot, nutritious meal is delivered to your doorstep.

[12:55:03] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So how do they deliver the food so fast? They use a math equation to predict how many people will order what food and when, which means the company sends out drivers before customers even use the app.

NEERAJ BERRY, SPRIG CO-FOUNDER: When your order a meal for Sprig, your meal is already halfway to you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neeraj Berry helped get the company off the ground in 2013. BERRY: One of my co-founders I have been best friends since we were 8

years old. As we started to get busier professionally, we had less and less time to cook. And so we decided to go out and solve that problem.

UNDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chefs prepare five lunch and five dinner options.

BERRY: We are open for lunch and dinner seven days a week, and on the weekends, we do brunch.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The company expanded to Chicago and has plans to open up in other cities.

BERRY: We want to create a world in which eating well is not just easy, but it's also accessible.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

WHITFIELD: A look at our top stories right now. The DHS secretary is warning travelers to be prepared for longer security lines at airports this summer. The agency is planning to hire hundreds of more officers, but not nearly enough to cover the thousands they lost back in 2014.

And a New Jersey family won last week's big Powerball. They made the announcement at a news conference on Friday. The winnings will be split between miss Pearly Smith and her seven adult children. The family chose to take the $284 million lump sum. Congrats to them.

The next hour of the "CNN Newsroom" starts right after this.

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